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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:03 AM
Original message
The moral hypocrisy in this animus towards the Bush twins is sweeping...
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:06 AM by DerekG
Every two weeks, an onslaught of insults are unleashed upon the Bush girls, usually due to the publication of stories chronicling their hedonistic lifestyles. The accusations are usually valid: Jen and Barb are, in fact, drunkards and (based on the Secret Service stories) fairly selfish.

The thing is: DUers aren't exactly Puritans, either.

After all, the threads centering on high school and college misdeeds are LEGION; some might recall the wave of sex threads that surfaced six months ago, before the moderators justifiably shut them down and told some of you to turn to other venues for ribald story-telling.

Now, I know that in your youth, most of you had to work for a living, and your character developed as a result. But guess what, that's because...YOU WEREN'T PART OF A FAMILY DYNASTY! If you were pampered all your life, and raised by an alcoholic sociopath, then many of you would have shared the same life perspective as these girls. So unless you were a virgin who attended college with the aim of self-betterment and not binge drinking, you don't really possess the moral high ground to attack privileged people who harbor the same sensibilities. And even if you were virtuous as a young adult, are these attacks productive?

Instead, let's concern ourselves with the policy-makers who threaten the survival of progressive reform all the world over, okay?
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Safi Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. We're just keeping a record
for when those Bush chicks are running for governor in a swing state.

-Safi
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Hey I consider the bush gals FINE purveyors of bush family values,
reflecting the glories of being raised christian and republican, by good, upstanding american parents, of the bluest, most aryan blood imaginable...

Between the mistresses, illegitimate children, illegal abortions, affairs with men, women and chidren; cocaine convictions, drunk driving, perjury, bank scandals, drug dealing, murdering, election tampering, election stealing, destruction of the constitution, war mongering, slaughtering, raping, pillaging, maiming, (WHEW, and I know I left out a BUNCH), the bush gals are surely off to the best start possible as fine, christian women for OUR future!
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You forgot the part about their gramps helping to finance Hitler.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:17 AM by greatauntoftriplets
Other than that, a great summary in minimal words.

Edited for typo.
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. that's their fault?
Really? You believe in biological determinism or something?

By that reasoning, those triplets you're so proud of should be condemned for everything you've ever done in your life that was less than perfect -- even if it was years before their birth.

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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Just part of the family legacy.
AND the money.
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Please provide evidence that they, themselves, are
directly responsible for any of that.

If you are assigning guilt to them based on their parents' actions, how is that different from racism? (Hating someone because they were born of black parents and therefore have black skin.)
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. LOL! Since when does skin or eye color determine the content of one's
character?

However, how one is raised, nurtured and brought up definitely determines the outcome of one's character.

Them gals were raised with those FINE bush family values. They'll be REAL treasures, I'm sure. Just think, the GOP version of the HILTON sisters!!!!!
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. You condemn them for what you think they "will be" ??
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:54 AM by southerngirlwriter
How is that fair?

If * thinks that you "will be" a terrorist, should he be allowed to go ahead and lock you up?

On edit: A HUGE percentage of DUers have hardcore RW parents. Would we have had the chance to become liberals if we were condemned for our parents? Imagine what voices for progressive politics they could be if we made them feel welcome as their time in the spotlight ends (hopefully, in January, although possibly it will be four years from January).
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. evidence?
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 10:15 AM by cosmicdot
Prescott beget Poppy and with Babs beget George, Jeb, Marvin, Neil ... so far, there hasn't been much improvement ...

not much evidence ... but, a trend began by the Bush-Walker-Pierce ancestors, and in full gear today

only time will tell

meanwhile ... try not to take every word as a cause


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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. I like the Bush twins
I'd love to spend an evening in their company
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Payback.
For how the GOP treated Chelsea Clinton.

Also, when we show what messed up kids the Bush family raises, and not just the twins, it shows their "family values" moralization for just what it is; bullcrap.

If the twins want to escape this sort of attention, let them join the Democratic Party and work to defeat their father.

-Ben
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Stupidity.
We're supposed to be better than them.
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Do you honestly think they have that choice?
You think a man who would steal an election and murder tens of thousands of Iraqis and send kids his daughters' ages over to Iraq to die for the sake of oil and his ego would allow his daughters to work against him?

News flash -- they may be getting beaten or worse to keep them in line. They are accompanied 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, by men with guns who answer to their father.

You couldn't revolt in that circumstance, either, and you know it.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. So lets say protested the war, would that make them OK in your book?
Cause Jenna did, so I guess if you have made any attack in her in the last year + since then it would make you seem rather silly.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. I feel sorry for them!!!
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:10 AM by HypnoToad
I saw a recent pic of Barbara the cutie, and the other one, walking 6 feet behind the Exalted One*. (this shows how little * knows about family values.)

I forgot to add: Yes, I know the GOP and freepers were cruel toward Chelsea. But that's because she and Bill and Hill looked close-knit. The appearance of a close family? :wow: Why aren't they going after *, as there's nary a picture I've seen that shows them all close-up with genuine smiles on their faces.
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. Additionally, all the "Pay attention to me, I'm a drunken idiot" threads
in the Lounge alone make the Bush twins look like choir girls who drink and behave responsibly.

People who would never condemn someone for the sexual orientation, disability, or skin color that they did not choose have no problem shitting on two young women for a family tie that they didn't choose, either. Figure that one out if you can.

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes it is,
Even if you get past the rank hypocrisy, you still have to deal with how repugnant it is seeing people on the left use right wing tactics.

The fact that Babs is a left leaning moderate, and the Jenna is by all reports rather progressive (like their cousin the PETA model) makes it even stranger.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. well i did alot of
crap my parents didn`t like and "embarrassed" them and my kids have done some stuff also but i`m not the president of the united states and i don`t represent the people. i would expect some sort of respect for the office from my children and act accordingly if i were president. yet we should expect the lack of respect when the father himself has no respect for the office of the president of the united states.
the right hammered Chelsea, her mother, and her dad and thru it all she was a example of class and dignity to her parents and the office her dad held.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Every 2 weeks?
I follow the news pretty closely, and I don't notice stories about the Bush twins every 2 weeks...
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
17. We are just jealous!
We want them to join the next DU drinking thread!
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. Considering the alleged hedonistic lifestyle of the Bush
twins I say the media has been easy on them and their parents.

Just imagine if Chelsea had been a partier and drunk much of the time. Imaagine again, if Chelsea's dad, while governor signed into law a law stating that any underage kid arrested three times for underage drinking. Jenna Bush violated the law and was not help accountable. She was privileged over other kids her age based upon family connections.

I hope people will read the entire article.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnists/wickham...

Bush twins should get scrutiny when they break law

WASHINGTON There are at least two good reasons why the media shouldn't ignore Jenna Bush's sophomoric attempts at teen-age drinking.

First, the zero-tolerance underage drinking act she violated in April and is accused of violating again last month was signed into law four years ago by her father while he was governor of Texas. The 1997 bill enacted at a time when Texas had the nation's worst record for traffic fatalities involving underage drinkers mandates strict penalties for violators.

snip

At the very least, President Bush owes the nation an explanation of how his 19-year-old daughter, with a taxpayer-funded security detail in tow, was able to get a drink in an Austin nightclub in April and how she allegedly used a fake ID card in her latest attempt to violate the law.

During his presidential campaign, George W. Bush promised that if he won the election his administration would set a proper moral tone for the nation. But now that he is in the Oval Office, Bush chafes at calls for him to speak out on his daughters' brushes with the law, even though their misdeeds occurred while federal agents were protecting them. The president should explain why his daughters think they can flout the law he imposed.





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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. To be consistent, you have to condemn a hell of a lot of DUers
for their hedonistic lifestyles. We have "I'm drunk, look at me!" threads more nights than not, and people boast often about their partying and pot-smoking.

And if consequences were smoothed for Jenna, that's the fault of her parents, again, not her. When you were 19, did you insist on experiencing the full consequences of every one of your actions?

"Professor, I deserve a failing grade on that paper. I didn't get it done in time because I was partying."

"Yes, officer, I was speeding. Please write me a ticket."

Somehow I doubt it -- I certainly didn't at 19.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Talking to the wrong person here...
I have never been drunk nor high. I only recently tasted beer and that was a sip. I don't see college as a four year bar tab. I grew up around drugs and alcohol and wanted to stay as far away from that lifestyle as possible.

My point is that if the Bush twins broke Texas law then they should have been subject to the same consequences as someone who was less well connected.

More on the law BUSH signed while governor of Texas...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ffile%3D/new...

A first offense can mean a 30-day driver's license suspension, a $500 fine, alcohol awareness classes and community service. Jenna Bush was ordered to attend the classes and perform community service after pleading no contest two weeks ago to charges of underage drinking at a nightclub.

A second conviction can lead to a 90-day driver's license suspension, and a third conviction can result in six months in jail.

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Champ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Sounds like a plea pargain
I've gotten those(twice), if you plead no contest the punishment is less harsher then it would be if you didn't.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. "College as a four year bar tab" -- that's a great line.
Although I like to have wine with dinner and maybe a drink later in the evening, I had to work 25 - 30 hours a week while attending full-time university for the privilege of getting a college education. My college years were no picnic, but a ton of hard work. Between commuting from home to school and then to downtown Chicago for my job (which included Saturdays), and studying, I had no time for partying.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. I Feel Sorry For Them
In December 2000, Jenna was hospitalized for appendicitis. And where was Dear Old Dad? Vacationing in Florida while she was in an Austin hospital. Now when I was in the hospital with appendicitis, my Dad came to see me everyday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/26/b... /

As for the drinking, really, it sounds like they are trying to be normal college students - kind of hard to do when you're surrounded by Secret Service agents and the media. And I don't fault the Secret Service agents either. Yes, they're law enforcement officers, but their primary duty is to PROTECT her life, kind of hard to do if she is always slipping their cover to try and have a life.

It does piss me off that so many of these uptight, self-righteous moralistic types did exactly what they now tell the kids not to do (drinking, drugs, sex). It also makes me mad they talk about "Zero Tolerance" but when it is their kid want all kinds of special treatment. With the Bush girls' drinking and Noelle (Jeb's daughter) getting busted with crack...

BTW - when Noelle was caught with crack I thought:
Good grief, if Jeb were my father, I'd do drugs too, but - CRACK? Has she no sense? That is so fifteen years ago and-OMG! what is with that hair? It's like a flashback to the 80's!
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Champ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. I have no problems toward them
I drank and got high many times when I was teen, plus if I was Bush's son I would be getting drunk and high whenever I possibly can. :D
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
25. I think "Leave Chelsea Alone" should apply to ALL young
children of presidents. Even though *'s daughters are of age, and Chelsea Clinton was not, I still think they ought to be left alone.
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
29. Bush Twins, and I'm Still Angry About Chelsea
So far, I have chosen to refrain from hurling barbs at the DOBs (Daughters of Bush). To date, they haven't done much more for their Daddy's policies than serve as parts of his entourage and as pretty photo props. So until they start making stump speeches for George Deucey-U Bush, slamming Democrats and Progressives, or using their position as Daddy's Girls for their financial aggrandisement, I choose not to let fly.

I'm still very angry about the sort of treatment the extreme right heaped on Chelsea Clinton, who came a lot closer to acting like Caesar's wife that her replacements as First Daughter(s). I don't care to stoop to the Far Right's habitual level of squalor.
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. What about "taking the high road"?
Fully responsible adults may be fair game, but I feel differently about offspring (unless they're affecting our own lives the way their parents do).

I clearly remember how vicious the talk was when CARTER was up for re-election, and there were lots of cutting remarks about how ugly Amy was. I was shocked to hear what were supposed to be mature adults talking about a child that way. The snide remarks go back further than Chelsea.

Whenever I overhear conversations like that, I consider the source. And in the case of both Amy and Chelsea, they were being attacked not even for personal character but for their PHYSICAL APPEARANCE. Stuff like that really reflects at least as much about the speaker as it does about the flaws of the one being spoken about.

When it comes to things like appearance and other superficial qualities, let's don't sink to THAT level. I KNOW we can do better than that!

However, there are some valid points about children of privilege being allowed to get away with things that the average person does not. Obviously they haven't gotten away with some things *completely* because we know about them; those things have been made public. Obviously W got away with lots of things all his life, but we didn't hear about them when he was the age of his daughters. If they're held more accountable (at least by exposure), maybe there's more hope for them. Especially if they've been able to make friends with people who can offer other points of view besides the "entitlement to privilege" environment they were probably brought up in.

And maybe they're just rebelling, in the typical manner that their peers rebel. If they could do it rationally and be more effective with it against their family, maybe they could be really creative and become Democrats.

Since this is a place for people to let off steam, and if comments like that need to be made here, so be it.

To summarize this long-winded post:

1. GW is definitely fair game, especially considering how petty & vicious we know the attacks will be upon Kerry.

2. I suggest that we take the high road when it comes to his immediate family, including Laura Bush. She's well-liked by most of the general public and loud attacks on her (outside this website, I mean) will only turn people off who are on the fence.

That's my $.02 worth anyway!
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dawn Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. I've never attacked them. They don't bug me at all.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:12 PM by dawn
I just find it interesting that they are the daughters of a creep who goes around telling the rest of us how to live our lives. It's usually the RWers who are the hypocrites. I don't think any of us on here say we are supremely moral, or Puritans.
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scottcsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. I think the Bush twins embody the hypocrisy of the right
How many times have conservatives scolded Americans on issues related to "family values?" Usually the vitriol is aimed at liberals and their supposed morally-bankrupt lifestyles.

I usually don't even stop to think of the Bush twins, but I do find it interesting that so many in the Bush family as a whole appear to have issues with drugs and alcohol, or have had issues with drugs and alcohol. To me that speaks volumes of what life must be like as the son or daughter of a Bush.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. I don't give a fuck about their actions
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:41 PM by ButterflyBlood
I get drunk and fuck all the time too and I'm about their age. But they willingly support their father by attending fundraisers and all that shit. So fuck them. If they told him to fuck off and supported Kerry I'd gain respect, but now they're just as bad as the rest of their family.
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