Is America safer? Look at some numbers...

[creativelcro]

I was looking at the statistics regarding Death due to injury in the US 2000.
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm
It looks like in 2000 each one of us, on average, had one chance in 1820 of dying due to an injury. There were 151,268 deaths due to injury. The 9/11 deaths are about 2% of this number, probably within the year-to-year random fluctuations. Even if there is one such attack per year, it is not the end of the world, is it ? I'm ok, with having my chance of dying by injury increase by a tiny bit and live in a more pleasant society.

[oostevo]

1. I agreee completely

I agree completely. I would much, much, much rather die in a terrorist attack, no matter how painfully, than be forced to live in a society where the civil liberties and freedoms of its citizens are not a primary factor (if not the primary factor) in the decisions of its government.

[caledesi]

2. Very intelligent statement oos...wish I could be that profound. nt

[creativelcro]

3. The original comment did not take into account

the cost of reconstructing major sites, if those are hit... I don't have the figures with me right now though...

[Wwagsthedog]

5. I don't think you need them.

Because they're a lot less than the cost of war.

[i_am_not_john_galt]

4. It takes two to make terror

You are right on the money about the poor choices we make through fear (smoking and mad cow are other examples). If terrorism did not produce the self-imposed "protective custody" we put ourselves in for safety it would be unprofitable for the terrorists. The best response to terrorism is courage and resolve, not a police state.

This, to me, is the leadership position we need to oppose gwb. Someone to say, "Look, you're selling your birthright for a bowl of porrage, your freedom for false security. Those who would value security over freedom deserve neither." (loosely quoting from some forefather in the last part there)

We all gotta die from something, sometime. Life is not Disneyland and the government and the military can't protect us from every misanthrope with a shoebomb in the context of a free society.

[JitterbugPerfume]

6. The only thing we have to fear

is fear itself___ FDR


Pretty good advice for these times eh?

[JitterbugPerfume]

7. But

I still aint eatin' beef __no way!!!

[i_am_not_john_galt]

8. See this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=985426

for a discussion on exactly that quote.

[forgethell]

9. I understand your point, but

no matter how I read your letter, it seems to me that you are sayingdeath by accident is morally equivalent to death by mass murder. I disagree with this conclusion 100%.

Furthermore, it is perfectly acceptable for you to accept increased risk of death for yourself. That's OK if you are the one going to die. but you are accepting it for other people. I do not you are entitled to do so, not in a society that wants to limit all smoking in public because of the purely imaginary dangers of second-hand smoke.

That being said, naturally we do not want to live in a police-state, either. But while * may have us sttanding at the top of the slippery-slope, we are nowhere near the bottom of it yet.

[forgethell]

10. Dupe, please delete

no matter how I read your letter, it seems to me that you are sayingdeath by accident is morally equivalent to death by mass murder. I disagree with this conclusion 100%.

Furthermore, it is perfectly acceptable for you to accept increased risk of death for yourself. That's OK if you are the one going to die. but you are accepting it for other people. I do not think you are entitled to do so, not in a society that wants to limit all smoking in public because of the purely imaginary dangers of second-hand smoke.

That being said, naturally we do not want to live in a police-state, either. But while * may have us standing at the top of the slippery-slope, we are nowhere near the bottom of it yet.

[i_am_not_john_galt]

11. Death by accident vs Death by murder

I'm not saying they are the same, I'm just saying that in a free society there will be an increased danger, an increased vunerability, to those who seek to do us harm (whatever their perceived justification). It takes a leader to communicate the value and the cost of freedom. "Give me liberty or give me death" is not just hyperbole, it's a response to those who were saying they would sacrifice their freedom for peace. We need to tell people that the government cannot guarantee their safety from enemies, and won't sacrifice the principles of freedom to give them a false sense of security.

As for smoking, just do away with the taxes and propaganda and let me pay my own health insurance and take the risk of *gasp* dying someday.

[forgethell]

12. No, there are no guarantees,

but I would rather the government do somthing, something that involves going after the enemies of the country. I'll take my chance on making them angry, they are angry already, and nothing will change that. To tolerate terror is to invite more.

Also, so far I see no real freedoms being given up. I don't care, and never have, if the FBI sits in on a mosque, church,synagogue, or any other public meeting, or instance. They've got rights to attend meetings like everybody else. I don't give a damn if nobody buys Dixie Chicks records, I don't like their music, and don't buy it for that reasn. but any reason that a person has for not buying their stuff is legitimate, even if it is that they don't like their politics. I don't care if the Christian Right organizes a boycott. God knows the left has done it often enough, to good effect. The same rules apply to both sides.

I don't care if illegal aliens are deported, they're illegal. and I don't care if Taliban combatants are held until they are no longer a danger to te US. There are a lot, an awful lot of bones to pick with W's handling of foreign policy and dfense policy, but erosion of civil rights are not one of them, IMO.

Now, if you have some specific examples, of oh, TV programs being shut down by the government, or peaceful protestors being thrown in jail with no access to lawyers, or something along those lines, lay 'em on me.