What is the Future of the Democratic Party?

[Leilani]

Hi! I'm new here, & this is my 1st discussion post. If possible, I'd love your opinions on a future of politics in this country. This is not a flame bait. All the candidates have their plusses & minuses.
I am a Clark supporter, but unlike some at DU, I will support the Dem nominee, whoever he is.

Why? Because another 4 years of Bush is too dangerous to our country.
Also, the Repugs have gained too much power, with control of House, Senate, & WH. What can we do to take the country back, & reverse the national trend towards more conservatism?

I have always been an Independent, and have voted for the person, not the party. Years ago, I leaned towards Republicans, when there was a large group of NE moderates, like Lincoln Chafee is today. Over the years, as the party got more conservative, more fundamentalist, & more Southern, I felt myself alienated. Also, I thought Clinton was a pretty good President, & the witch hunt against him was horrible.

Last election I supported & wrote in McCain. I did not agree with many of his policies, but I respected the man. After he was out I supported Gore. I lived in NJ, & Gore was safe, so I wrote in McCain.

I've lived all over the country, moved 22 times, from West to East, New England, & Deep South. Spent many years in the deep south, but I'm from NY area. Therefore, I think I have a good fix on different views.

Anyway, I think most people in the country are in the middle of the spectrum. The Repugs run as moderates & govern from the right. The Dems run from the liberal side, but govern as moderates. Therefore, I believe the message of the Dems should be more moderate, & once in power they can move to the left. I think the Dems should beat Bush at his own game, & take over the middle, & they will win.

Is this theory a turn off to the Progressives, & liberal wing? Can the party become a big tent & accept Independents & moderates like me, & become the dominant party, or will the liberal base insist on purity?

Finally, I am supporting Clark, because my biggest dream is to watch a Bush/Clark debate, & see Shrub finally put in his place as a cowardly, deserting, phony pretend cowboy, who never had to work for a thing in his life. We're losing our middle class, & unless we change course, we will have corporations, CEOs, & serfs.

I think there are many, many people like me out there, who are pro-military, pro-choice, pro equal rights for everyone, against tax cuts for the wealthy, for a more equitable tax system, taking burden off middle class, & against exporting all our jobs.

Would appreciate your ideas, comments, etc. Thanks!!

[MoonRiver]

1. Welcome to DU Leilani!

I became very politically energized after selection 2000. Before that my husband and I were decided (ha, ha) Independents. But we have both subsequently joined the Democratic Party.

Frankly once the institution I believed to be sacrosanct (i.e. SCOTUS) derailed our Constitution and democracy I knew, deep inside, that it was all over. Being of a fiery spirit, however, I simply couldn't lay down and let the right wing roll over me. I've fought them as hard as I can through the Internet, political contributions, and grassroots efforts. And I know of so many others who have done as much or much, much more. Still the fascist march toward America's Armageddon keeps moving steadily forward. Perhaps all our efforts will make a difference. I pray they do.

[lcordero]

2. The future is now

There are six radicals in the Supreme Court. The last three sane people are on their last legs.

[La_Serpiente]

3. Aloha

O wai kou inoa?

O La_Serpiente kou inoa.

[Leilani]

5. Aloha!

I'm haole Kaamaina.

Were you at the Bush protest at the Hilton? I was!!

Please translate O wai kou inoa? Trying to learn, looking into Hawaiian language lessons.

[La_Serpiente]

6. No, I was not at the Bush protest

I am on Maui right now. Well, I attend college in Honolulu, but am here for the vacation.

O wai kou inoa? means "What is your name?"

and then "O ________ kou inoa " means "My name is _______."

[Leilani]

10. Thanks for the translation!

Maui is no ke oui.

What's the job market like over there? My son was on Maui week before Xmas, & he said it was empty.

Job market in Honolulu sucks. So much for the "great economy."

[La_Serpiente]

13. there are mostly jobs

for low end paying jobs. I am talking about Starbucks, Jamba Juice, Wal Mart, etc. None of the high end jobs.

Construction is booming though. However, there was a moratorium placed on building for the areas of south maui since we are having a water crisis at the moment. It is more of a long term problem - not a short term one. There is a lot of water right now, but come summer, there won't be that much.

If you are working in real estate, you are making tons of money as a result of the moratorium. Housing prices are going through the roof, and real estate agents are reaping the benefits.

There is nothing else really here in Maui.

and 'ae, Maui no ka oi :-)

[mmonk]

4. Good post Leilani

the tent is big enough for what you described.

[YNGW]

7. What is the Future of the Democratic Party?"

Ask that question after Election 2004 and the answer should be much more clear.

Victory has a way of patching up problems.

However, should we lose in 2004, it will be past time to say 'Good-bye' to some of the more radical types, show them to the front of the house, and slam the door behind them. Let them go to the Greens or somewhere. I have an inclination there are less than 3 million of them nationwide anyway.

[SharonAnn]

Hmmm, in that case, I suggest the opposite.

Keep the Progressives and get rid of the DLC types.

There was a time when the DLC was centrist but now it's just corporatist.

[lcordero]

8. ????

"pro-military, pro-choice, pro equal rights for everyone, against tax cuts for the wealthy, for a more equitable tax system, taking burden off middle class, & against exporting all our jobs."

How does this differentiate you from the progressive wing?

[RUexperienced]

9. Ask the DLC

They give voice to many of us who are moderates.

[Iverson]

11. a worthwhile question

I hope that I am wrong, but I predict that the future of the Democratic Party is one of loyal opposition, with its leftmost edge patterned after Nelson Rockefeller or Edward Brooke.

Even here on oh-so-liberal DU, plenty of discussants wish to see the left purged from the party or wish to see the token liberals drop out of the primaries before a single vote is cast.

Most of the party wants to be mainstream, and most of the mainstream is following a steady drift to the right. Pretty soon some of your positions will be unacceptably far left, just as being against the inequities of economic globalization is right now.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

[ochazuke]

12. Gets worse, then a lot worse, then really awful, world ends, THEN were OK.

At the moment, it seems that the Democratic party will fail to wrest control of the country from the Repbulicans in 2004. If so, and in fact the thugs get a filibuster-proof Senate, then we will have total despotism.

The Democratic party will just have to sit on the sidelines and watch as Bush&co. drive the country upside-down into a ditch.

Then, the Democratic party will have a rebirth as the Rethugs will have been discredited by the disasters they are bringing about. They will split into moderate (Chaffe, Snow, McCain) and hard line (DeLay & his minions) factions.

(I mis-spelled Republicans above, but decided to leave it that way.)

[AndyTiedye]

14. You've Got It Right Except for the "Then were OK" part.

With that much power, the Republicans become "The Party"
(why should they tolerate the existance of any others?)
and the democratic process as we know it will be dead and buried.
The mad cowboys will rule supreme until the rest of the world
nukes us.

If we have any chance at all, this coming election is our last one.

[Leilani]

19. I agree with your post

That's why I started this discussion. If we can't win this election, I am really scared, because the Repugs will consolidate their power even more, & I fear for our country, our freedoms, & our future.

[Dover]

17. The Dems have been sitting on the sidelines for awhile now

anyhoo.

[Dover]

15. I think the problem is that the Dem Leadership is almost

indistinguishable from the GOP which has led to the splintering...or counter movement to the Left (what is now referred to as Left used to be central to the Dem platform, just look at Kucinich's policies). Actually I think there is a splintering in both parties - in the GOP due to the extremist neocons.

And there has been a huge disappointment and building anger at the apparent lack of representation by Dems against the Right's onslaught. Why is that? That one is still not answered adequately for me...and I don't chalk it up purely to a lack of backbone. I think the Dem leadership has actually supported many of the GOP policies with eyes wide open.

So how to pull that gap together. The Dem leadership has turned a deaf ear and don't seem interested in responding to this split or addressing the anger. So the desired warm and fuzzy party togetherness would be false and superficial...and I, for one, resent the Dems counting on hatred of Bush to get them elected and mask their impotence or unwillingness to address these deeper issues.

So I've solved the issue for myself by simply voting for the best man or woman when the time comes, regardless of party affiliation.
Of course it would be really hard to be worse than Bush, so this is hardly saying much in the way of an endorsement for his opponent. That's what the Dems are counting on...and that's what they'll probably get. But the anger will not subside if the performance doens't change.

[Darranar]

16. Irrelevance...

unless change happens SOON.

[Piperay]

21. TOTALLY agree

unfortunately, I worry that it is just about to lately already. :cry:

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

18. Leilani,

first of all, welcome. To sort of answer your question about the future of our Party, I have a theory. I think the main problem for the Dems now is that of division. Some say we're too far Left, and some say that we're too centrist. The thing is, I don't think we can definitively say right now. I think we need to make perfectly clear that the Democratic Party is a big tent party, with a center-left base, that can appeal to the liberal Dean voters, and the moderate Lieberman voters. Zell Miller is a lost cause, who is truly a DINO. I think when we can stand up to the Right and say what we believe with one voice, the future is ours again.

[Dover]

20. Maybe this social futurist is right about the ultimate end of Pol. Parties

Maybe you saw this when it was circulating around here before.

Toffler, in his book Third Wave (which was written in 1980!), might offer a more far reaching perspective than we can fathom while in the midst of change.
Just to explain his basic premise, he discusses the three "waves" of civilization -

First Wave = Agricultural
Second Wave = Industrial
Third Wave = Information Age (or the age of ideas).

Toffler saw the big power struggle we would engage in as we made the shift into this new Third Wave, and conceeds it could become quite violent. While he sees class struggles, race, religion, politics, etc. as areas of great tension, he describes all these struggles as being played out on the stage of this larger oceanic shift and the antagonists as being those who attempt to prop up and preserve the Second Wave Industrial society.

Many people, however, ARE ready to move beyond the industrial era into the future. He thinks labor unions, for one, are part of the Second Wave World we are leaving....as is our dependency on fossil fuels, and all things born in the Industrial era that no longer support the change. With such huge change, we are also all forced to struggle with new sets of values and ideologies, of government, law, etc. In short, the changes effect every aspect of our lives, both spiritual and material. He contends we cannot solve emerging problems with old, Second Wave solutions.

One small excerpt regarding our current Political Parties:

"...this is why we find TWO political wars raging around us simultaneously. At one level, we see a politics-as-usual clash of Second Wave groups battling each other for immediate gain. At a deeper level, however, these traditional Second Wave groups cooperate to oppose the new political forces of the Third Wave.

This analysis explains why our existing political parties, as obsolete in structure as in ideology, seem so much like blurry mirror images of one another. Democrats and Republicans, as well as Tories and Labourites, Christian Democrats and Gaullists, Liberals and Socialists, Communists and Conservatives, are all - despite their differences - parties of the Second Wave. All of them, while jockeying for power within it, are basically committed to preserving the dying industrial order.

Put differently, the most important political development of our time is the emergence in our midst of two basic camps, one committed to Second Wave civilization, the other to Third. One is tenaciously dedicated to preserving the core institutions of industrial mass society - the nuclear family, the mass education system, the giant corporation, the mass trade union, the centralized nation-state, and the politics of pseudorepresentative government. The other recognizes that today's most urgent problems, from energy, war, and poverty to ecological degradation and the breakdown of familial relationships, can no longer be solved within the framework of an industrial civilization.

The lines between these two camps are not yet sharply drawn. As individuals, most of us are divided, with a foot in each. Issues still appear murky and unconnected to one another. In addition, each camp is composed of many groups pursuing their own narrowly perceived self-interest, without any overarching vision. Nor does either side have a monopoly on moral virtue. There are decent people ranged on both sides. Nevertheless, the DIFFERENCES between these TWO subsurface political formations are enormous.

The defenders of the Second Wave typically fight against minority power; they scoff at direct democracy; they oppose efforts to de-massify the schools; they fight to preserve a backward energy system; they deify the nuclear family, pooh-pooh ecological concerns, preach traditional industrial-era nationalism, and oppose the move toward a fairer world economic order.

By contrast, the forces of the Third Wave favor a democracy of shared minority power; they are prepared to experiment with more diret democracy; they favor both transnational and a fundamental devolution of power. They call for a crack-up of the giant bureaucracies. They demand a renewable and less centralized energy system. They want to legitimate options to the nuclear family. They fight for less standardization, more indivualization in the schools. They place a high priority on environmental problems. They recognize the necessity to restructure the world economy on a more balanced and just basis.

Above all, while the Second Wave defenders play the conventional political game, Third Wave people are suspicious of ALL political candidates and parties (even new ones), and sense that decisions crucial to our survival cannot be made with the present political framework."

- Alvin Toffler, The Third Wave

[reprobate]

22. I think the party will either beat bush or self destruct.

The cons have all divisions of gov't plus the media sowed up, which does not bode well for us. With the media skewing everything our candidates say it will be difficult for our nominee to get fair coverage.

The one ray of hope and sunshine I can see is the deep anger by many people at the administration, starting at the selection and continuing thru the trumped up war on islam the we are now getting our nose bloodied in. I rationalize that in the last election Gore actually won the popular vote and without the unconstitutional interferance by the Extreme court would now be in the white house, while bush has made nothing but enemies both here and abroad. So there is a chance of taking the white house back, and there even may be some coattails to ride into congress on. Wishfull thinking.

Otherwise, I see little hope for the country, let alone the party. Four more years of the paleocons will see the consolidation of the fascist regime and the end of democracy in the United States. Economically we will be a nation of the wealthy and the serfs. The neocon agenda will take over with social security, medicare, medicade, public education, and all other public services being destroyed.

The error in the neocon thinking, I believe, is that they have a plan to destroy the gov't (so says Grover Norquist), but, just like in iraq, they have given no thought to what will happen if they are successful. I believe that if they are successful, it will result in a society of bandits and roving gangs of the hungry. It will be a time when, if you aren't armed you will be dead. The perfect republican society.

I think that our country will HAVE to go thru this in order to once and for all show the people that republicans are by nature destructive to life, liberty and happiness. What will come after will hopefully be a country of progressive, caring people. A country in which a corporation will NOT have dominion over a person. A country in which people are more important than profits.

A country in which the national anthem is America, the Beautiful, not the current song that glorifies war.

BTW, Leilani, the way you describe your political beliefs puts you squarley in the progressive camp.