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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:03 PM
Original message
Jackson: It's OK to Sleep With Children
NEW YORK - Michael Jackson (news) told CBS' "60 Minutes" that he still believes it's acceptable to sleep with children and that he would "slit my wrists" before he would hurt a child.

Jackson, arrested Nov. 20 on suspicion of child molestation, denied the charges against him during an interview with Ed Bradley conducted Christmas night and set to air Sunday. CBS released a portion of the interview on Friday.

Jackson, 45, is charged with seven counts of performing lewd or lascivious acts upon a child under 14 and two counts of administering an intoxicating agent. He remains free on $3 million bail.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031226/ap...

He's weird.
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JPace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Jackson: It's OK to Sleep With Children"
Many a child molester just loves
Jackson's mantra....their hoping
it will become a social norm.

He just is not going to give this
stupid idea up is he?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. No it isn't unless you yourself are a child,
Edited on Fri Dec-26-03 10:18 PM by Cleita
or if you are a parent trying to comfort a frightened child. The rest of this baloney doesn't fly with me.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please, someone differentiate between
children that are family versus those that are unrelated. I intensely dislike the idea of a grown man sleeping with kids that are not his. I can't explain why. Yet.

My kids slept with us until they were three and four. They still like to climb into bed with mommy and daddy. I think that is natural, the way anthropologically things worked to keep a family safe.
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populistmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Same here Ilsa
Our kids slept with us until 2 or 3, but this whole thing just creeps me out too.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. The operative word: "mommy and daddy"
He just doesn't get it because, and I know he has
his day coming, a real-life pedo doesn't see the
wrong in it. Check out the NAMBLA freaks. They say
the same thing.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. the pedophile charges have yet to be proved.
it's shameful the way people have convicted Jackson without a trial. where's the evidence?
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Maccagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Even if he's innocent of molestation
He obviously just doesn't get it. He is such a savvy manipulator surrounded by enablers.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kinda depends....
.... on one's definition of "hurting a child" now doesn't it.

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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Not exactly. It depends on the law's definition.
I don't know what the specific language is in California but generally speaking any kind of sexual interaction between a child and an adult is a crime.

If this case goes to a jury, Jackson is toast.
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kixot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. He just doesn't seem to get it, does he?
I mean, if I were him I would make DAMN sure I was never alone with any kid, ever - ESPECIALLY alone and overnight in my friggin bed!! What crack doth flow through his veins?
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. So we're discussing Peter Pan and the "Puer Aeternis" lasst night...
And my daughter's telling me how the new Peter Pan movie is going to "explore" the feelings between Peter and Wendy. I say "but that would blow Jung's theory on the Puer Aeternis right out the window if they let Peter get jiggy with Wendy..." and she said "Yeah, and that'd blow Michael Jackson's defense all to hell, too..."

She inherited my warped sense of humour, I see....
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. what's the harm, as long as no inappropriate touching occurs?
the mere act of sharing a bed with a child is not molestation in any way shape or form. if Jackson really molested a child, then heaven help him. but if all he did was literally "sleep with" a child, then i think the prudes who are objecting so vociferously need to have their own heads examined.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. It has nothing to do with prudery. If that is the case, then any
man anywhere can sleep with any child. Its too
dangerous to parse. Period.

All he does with this shit is give the prosecution
more ammo to shoot him with. I cannot imagine Geragos
letting him say this kind of thing. He's accused of
drugging and abusing a kid. What the hell is Geragos
thinking?

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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. as i said, where's the harm?
molestation is indefensible. but being in the same bed with a child is not molestation. i think the real harm is caused by people like you who create an atmosphere of paranoid fear. pretty soon it'll be a crime for an adult to be in the same room with a child, because "something" might happen. well, i got news for you. this is still America, where we don't convict people for what they actually did, not for what they might do.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. What reason is there for a grown man to sleep with a child?
Even if no touching was involved, what reason would there be for such action? It seems that no matter how you look at it, there is a mental problem at work here. Perhaps it is not pedophilia but there's something going on because sharing a bed with other people children just isn't normal adult behavior.

I don't think adults should be allowed to use children for anything, be it sex, or as a means to deal with their mental issues.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I was a counselor at a summer camp, during a younger kids week
My cabin was filled with 6- and 7-year old kids. One boy had a bed-wetting problem the first two nights, which we correctly deduced was due to being separated from his family and frightened at night. He kept the other kids awake crying. I let him sleep in my bunk with me, and the bed-wetting and crying stopped. Everyone in my cabin was happier.

So, does this prove to you that I have a mental problem? Am I a latent pedophile? Or did I do the compassionate thing, and help the boy get past an embarrassing situation that was negatively affecting the group? What's your diagnosis, Mr. "normal adult behavior"?

Now I'm not saying what Mr. Jackson did was comparable. I certainly don't know the facts of his case. What, if anything, makes you think you do?
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Summer camp? You find this comparable to summer camp!
This is a guy that goes out and finds kids to take home and sleep with.

Also I do know some facts in this case...

1- This man has settled child allegations in the past.
2- He thinks that sleeping with kids is great.

Those two together inspire questions, questions that I believe should be asked and investigated seriously. If it were up to me I wouldn't let this person near a child.
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. hmmm
"So, does this prove to you that I have a mental problem? Am I a latent pedophile? Or did I do the compassionate thing, and help the boy get past an embarrassing situation that was negatively affecting the group? What's your diagnosis, Mr. "normal adult behavior"?"

Not proof but you already have me wondering.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. I think it's called in Latin
In loco parentis. You, in your position, were the de facto PARENT and obligated to behave in the CHILD'S interests to the best of your ability. You did so. Case closed.

I have shared a bed with children, my own, those of close friends, and ask simply, WHO IN HIS RIGHT MIND WANTS to have toes up the nose, elbows in the kidneys or piss all over the mattress? They can be quite sweet as infants, although one tends to sleep LIGHTLY out of fear of rolling over on them. KIDS ARE NO FUN WHEN YOU NEED SOME SHUTEYE. Go sleep in yer OWN DOGGONE BED. PLEEAASE!!!

Having been privy to conversations between illegal domestics at Neverland, I harbor NO DOUBT that lines have been crossed. However, that is up to the legal system to prove.
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Valarauko Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. what reason would there be for such actions?
Now we need to provide reason for every action?
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Did I ask a reason be given for every action?
No, I asked why one man that has settled child abuse allegations in the past finds it's necessary to sleep with children. I think that is a reasonable question.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Trust me. No one wants to sleep with a kid that isn't your
own unless you have to. Any body who has had to share a bed with a younger relative, when times made you double up, whether because of disaster or holidays knows this. So doing this voluntarily is kinda weird to me.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. dfong
I honestly don't believe Michael would intentionally hurt a child. I believe he just may be innocent of technical molestation charges. That being said, there is something clearly seriously wrong with this man. He has mutilated his face and likes to have children sleep with him. He seems oblvious to the real world. The name NEVERLAND says it all. People need to stop enabling his disturbing behaviour; he needs help. Do you honestly think he'd get away with this stuff if he didn't have money?
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Sleeping with a child is not the issue. There is no law against something
like that. The law forbids sexual contact between a minor child and any other person, including other minor children, aka, children under the legal age of consent (a fifteen year old having sex with another fifteen year old would be considered statuatory rape in many states).

Jackson is accused of sexual misconduct of some sort with an underage child. While the defense can argue that the case was brought because of monetary issues with the child's parents that has no effect on the actual charges.

If the boy in the complaint goes into court and alleges that Jackson touched him in an improper manner (etc., etc. the legal lingo is too much trouble to go into here) Jacko is toast.

And he probably should be. At the very least this is an example of colossal bad judgment on his part and on the part of the boy's parents. Sexual play among pubescent boys is commonplace. Sexual play between a boy and a reputed adult is a crime.
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trixie Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. I guess I am the prude you mention
As a person who works with children and is quite involved in the protection of children I find it weird that you would say that. Michael Jackson does these things to fulfill something in him. The welfare of the children is not his goal, his goal is to impart himself and take what he needs. There are many child advocates out there. Look at Oprah, she helps children by giving them what they need and what is best for them she does not consider her own needs when applied to the child. Jackson takes a weak child and manipulates the child and his family to satisfy himself. This is the base for the abuse of children.

Watch an adult and child in a mall. You might see an adult holding the hand of a small child to keep that child safe. Adult and child are hooked together as a tether. Look at Jackson in the interview with a 12 year old boy. He is holding and stroking the hand and arm of the boy. He is not keeping the boy safe he is taking what he needs from the child. Whether or not unlawful actions have been taken Jackson still has imposed himself on the child.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. dude, you are saying you'd let your child sleep
in the same bed as mj?

on second thought, i doubt you ARE a parent... :eyes:
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. CREEP CREEP CREEP!
EW EW EW EW EW
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NicRic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. KICK,KICK,KICK !!!!
You know the saying ,if it walks like a duck ,talks like a duck ,its a duck !
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. The PARENTS of these children are MORE to blame IMO....
Edited on Fri Dec-26-03 11:44 PM by jus_the_facts
....everyone on the planet has known he was accused years ago...yet these people still allowed their children to stay over at his house without any other supervision!!!!

:wtf:


So they are quilty of allowing their child to be molested...if in fact it did happen...then they should also be charged with collusion of molestation for giving him access to him and lettin' him stay at his house....no if's and's or but's about it...THEY ARE GUILTY FIRST AND FOREMOST! :evilfrown: :puke:
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. The person who committed the crime is guilty, first and foremost.
However, the parents should also be investigated for possible culpability in the matter.

As a parent, I cannot conceive of allowing my children to sleep in the same bed with an adult, and especially with an adult who has been accused of buying his way out of a previous charge dealing with exactly the same charges.

This goes beyond bad judgment well into the realm of facilitation.
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I remember reading how his parents sued
some store claiming they molested the same kid. It's sick to think that they would risk the kid, trying to setup Jackson up but you never know. They knew the prior accusations, yet, they let him sleep over.

Personally I think he didn't do it. I think he's sick in his mind and thinks he's still a 12 year old boy who is hanging with kids his age. That's weird and f-ed up, but not child molestation (if nothing sexual went on). Also the fact that only two kids (one settled for $$, this other one is fishy too) complained is strange, thousands have been to his ranch. If he did it, hang him and hang him high, but I'm not ready to convict him. People will do a lot of things for money and kids can be coached to say things.

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Personally, I think they're pimps
I do think that, for some of them at least, they were probably hoping something would happen and they could sue for big bucks, and in any case MJ is known for lavish "gifts" to the parents of the children he sleeps with.

The kids are just bait, or prostitutes one way or another.

All we're arguing about at the moment is what parts of the body were seen or touched, when and in what manner.

"Lick Bush" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Bingo -
letting their child sleep with a known child molestor? Some people shouldn't breed.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Damn! "A known child molester"?!
"A known child molester"? You don't know he's a child molester. For God's sake, this is a progressive website? You guys are just as fascist as the republicans when it comes to civil rights like trials and so on.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. for the record...I said *accused*....
....I don't know for a fact he's a child molester...and tend to think he considers himself a perpetual child in his own mind...MJ was abused and has mental problems as a result that much I BELIEVE...but if it's found that he DID in fact molest then I STILL blame the parents for giving him unsupervised rein over their children...if they hadn't provided this easy access to them then they wouldn't have become victims......plain and simple.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Jacko is obviously...
one sick and stupid fool. He's never recieved the help he needs and it's also apparent that his friends and family are worthless. The fact that there was never any sort of intervention or advice given to him that such behavior as sleeping in the same bed with children is wrong, is absolutely amazing. As one poster said, it's one thing to try to squeeze in the bed with mom and dad when your 3 or 4, but it's simply never right for men to sleep in the same bed with others' children at any age.

MJ obviously should have recieved help a long time ago, but at this point I don't even know what good it will do. He seems to be in absolute denial. As for the various allegations, if they are proven true, then he should be in prison for a very long time. Though at this point I will reserve judgement, and I also find the behavior of the accusers' parents (both this time and previously) to be questionable. At the least it's obvious the parents have horrible judgement considering they sent this boy there even after several allegations in the past.
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Valarauko Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
28. Sleep with children doesn't mean
have sex with them
What did he mean?
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PSR40004 Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
32. 3 to 1 he gets off..
Of the charges you dirty minds :)

I think he's a sicko but proving it is another matter, lawyers will take another hit over this one...
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cowpie Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I think the case is weak
But the problem is still there. I can't say whether he did it or not, but something is not right. I agree that the parents are also culpable for child endangerment.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
36. The critical distinction here:
There is an enormous difference, e.g., between me having crawled into my Mam and Daddy's bed when I was 2, 3 or 5 (bad dream, or whatever) and Michael Jackson sharing a bed with an unrelated and much older child.

It creeps me out, frankly. :scared:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. I don't know, but maybe it's just me. Maybe there is a natural protection
built into a healty normal human psyche?

As I get older, even persons in their 20 or eary 30's look like children to me, and as such, I could never envision myself "attracted" to such persons - except in some sort of protective, save them from danger, as you would a loved one, way.

Do others of you feel this way as you get older, and is there actually some sort of name for this ageing process?

I remember talking with one of my friends about 10 years ago, and I remarked how strange it was to see all these "children" walking around downtown during the day, when they should be in schoold or something, and they said, "they're not younger, you're just older".

Anyhow, just my 2 cents.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. They say you're getting old
when the police start looking like kids...

As I passed the Cathedral today I saw a team and just smiled at them. They both returned the favor and I walked on thinking, OHHHH they're SOOOOOO CUTE!!!

My age is indeterminate by sight and as such I have close friends who are 30 years younger. And YES, my insinct is to PROTECT THEM by offering the benefit of my experience. To my young girlfriends I talk about the ramifications of childbearing. The boys think that maybe I'm "an older woman" but that's OK. I always ask how old their moms are, and after disabusing them of any sexual notions, engage them. YES. Protect them. Give them as much information as I can, YES. Ask them about their own experiences and attitudes. YES. Protect these wonderful beings in any way that I can.
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