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Who are the most stigmatized minority in the U.S. today?

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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:34 AM
Original message
Poll question: Who are the most stigmatized minority in the U.S. today?
Obviously, I have my own opinion about this, but I'm curious about our perceptions of ourselves. I would guess that, rich white guys notwithstanding, each of us thinks he or she belongs to the most persecuted group? What if we belong to more than one group? Which group takes the prize for being the most vilified by the most Americans?

Surprise me, DUers. And, in advance, please excuse me for any inadvertent insensitivities or bias on my part. I trust you will point them out to me.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. The mentaly ill.
Definitely an oppressed minority.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You're right about that...
and I forgot about the elderly as well. I see "ageism" everywhere.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. From your list: Atheists. Of course I am one.
I agree with the DU'er that said the mentally ill though.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. I happen to agree with you
but I'm making a point of not voting until later. I think it's easier to come out as a gay person than as an atheist. Of course, I've only done one and not the other (I'm an atheist).
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. It's not so bad "coming out" for me anymore.
Although I don't usually say Atheist, I say "Godless Heathen", that usually get a chuckle.

OTH politically, at least in America, it's almost suicide to "come out" as an Atheist.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. LOL, I've done that
but I am still nervous.

And I love your sig line. I inscribed it on the endpaper of my journal years ago.
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
122. I'm an atheist
And I say it with pride.
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
68. I understand the unleashing against the French secular way of life
:-)
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southerngirlwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. You left out the only group it's okay to hate.
The only group who regularly gets mocked on DU with no complaints or comments from anyone.

Fat people.
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. I agree
Especially the morbidly obese. They can't eat a meal in public without the nasty looks.
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gpandas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
38. yeah
if only people wore their brains on the outside
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
81. agreed to an extent
the only thing is, we're not a minority anymore. We're just treated like it.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
104. Good post.
As someone who's recovered from anorexia, I agree entirely.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Forgive my ignorance... what does GLBT stand for?
Thanks.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Transgendered
...I think
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demvoter Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. What
What does GLBT stand for?
:kick:
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered
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ddye Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
123. What does transgendered mean?
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. What about the homeless?
I'm sure there are even more that we could add to this list, however, I'm voting for GBLT. Face it, bigots get on television about expound their hatred towards gays, and the mainstream media reports it just as a "point of view." They wouldn't dare touch such a "point of view" if it were directed towards any other minority.
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MotorCityMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. I pick the GLBT community based on personal experience
Being gay, you do not have the rights and protections that you would if you were not, especially in a relationship. My lover died recently, from cancer. I had no rights to visit him, talk to his doctors, or to receive a phone call when he died. Thank god his family is understanding and accepting of us.

The rethugs are also gearing up to use this for a major wedge issue, especially if Dean gets nominated. I expect to hear lots this year about about how my very existence is a threat to marriage, families, children, mom and apple pie.

Off topic, I tried when I was in high school to get an ROTC scholarship with the navy. You had to go on countless interviews, fill out lots of forms, and get a physical from a doctor, dentist and eye doctor. Well, after all that, I got the scholarship, and then was disqualified medically because my eyesight is bad.

Anyways, my point is that for all you had to go through (this was in '82) NOT ONCE was I ever asked if I was a homosexual. In fact, a year later my parents found out. My mother told me that it was a good thing I did not get the scholarship because I was gay. I had no idea what she was talking about. I did not even KNOW that the branches of the military did not want homosexuals. I guess when I went thru the ROTC process, it was considered common knowledge that homos were completely unacceptable.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I suppose I'm lucky living in NY
There seems to be (from the outside) greater acceptance of gays recently. It's hard to judge from where I am; I have a very progressive group of friends. That's why I started the poll. I honestly have encountered less hostility to gays than to atheists of late. But, not being gay, I have no authority to speak for anyone other than myself.

Peace.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Atheists?
When you don't stand for anything, you can't be oppressed.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Nice reasoning.
:eyes:
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. define yourself
What do you mean when you say I "don't stand for anything?" I stand for plenty of things. I simply choose not to devote time or energy to the belief in a supernatural being. That's a stand, I would say.
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Mr_Scarecrow Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. fishguy, that's a pretty silly remark
What do overweight people "stand for"? What do black people "stand for"? Oppression is carried out upon a group or class of people simply because they exist.

In the atheists case, I'd say there's plenty of oppression, when every last member of the U.S. Senate stands up and recites the words "under god" fervently!
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Atheists oppressed more than blacks? Yeah, right.....

To equate "oppressed" atheists with "oppressed" groups like blacks is ridiculous.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. WHERE did I use the word "oppressed?"
That's your word. I said "stigmatized" and "vilified."
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Read two posts up
and to say that atheists are the most stigmatized group is ludicrous.
No one walks down the street and says, "Hey, that person looks like an atheist. Let's beat them up."
Happens to blacks, other racial minorities, whites, gays, people wearing religious symbols, but not to atheists.

That is part of being stigmatized, how you look.
There is no "look" to atheism.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. So, you're saying....
people are only stigmatized by how they look? How does that explain oppression of the GLBT community (and yes, I mean oppression here)?

And you're only stigmatized if others beat you up?
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:48 AM
Original message
Again, to believe that atheists are the most "oppressed" group
is ludicrous.

People judge others by looks first. Simply the way it is.
Judge a book by its cover.
Sorry, but atheists have no look.
Automtatically drops that category way down to the bottom.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
42. Well, thank you for clearing that up
So nice to hear that my point of view is "ludicrous."

Isn't tolerance a wonderful thing.

Peace.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Oh, those poor atheists!
I really feel so bad for you.

And your point is ludicrous.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. And to suggest that stigmatization can only occur
because of the way someone looks is also ludicrous.

I am not asking for your sympathy, either.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Start reading what I wrote instead of just the part you want to read
There goes those atheists again, reading whatever they want to read and ignoring what they want.
No wonder they are so stigmatized.
Their reading comprehension skills are poor.
Judging a book by its cover, people judge by looks first.
Read my posts again.
Hello, McFly!!!
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Could you please stop with the sweeping negative generalisations?
It's rather rude.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. I'm sorry, it must be the stigmatization attached to atheists coming out
Please, even thinking atheists are the most stigmatized group in American is rude.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. Excuse me for my rude thoughts then
I'll think about them quietly in a corner, where you won't have to watch me thinking them and be offended by them.

Until you have to go to your kid's school to explain why you do not support reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as it is currently written, or the singing of "God Bless America" in a public school, don't talk to me about stigmatization.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #54
64. Dude! What got your panties in a twist?
Such hostility.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #54
73. who would have a better chance of winning election to Congress?
An admitted atheist, an admitted gay, or a black person?

I'll sit down and wait for my answer.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
100. Bingo.
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Mr_Scarecrow Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
44. sorry, lapislzi and fishguy, i should have read above better
the poll is about "stigmatized" not "oppressed". sorry to distract from the meaning of the poll.

And yes, atheists are definitely stigmatized.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Maybe stigmatized, but nowhere near the top
To vote it number one is ludicrous.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
61. I think you're missing the point. Presidential preference...
...polls have often suggested that there is a tremendous stigma attached to the word "Atheist".

http://www.religioustolerance.org/amer_intol.htm

These data indicate that, on average:

Americans are generally prejudiced against non-Judeo-Christian religions. Churchgoers are more prejudiced than are Non-Christians.

Born-again Christians are more prejudiced than are all churchgoers.

Prejudice against Blacks, Catholics, Jews, Mormons and Women (at least as presidential candidates), has been essentially wiped out in recent years.

Prejudice against homosexuals has dropped significantly in the past two decades.

Prejudice against Atheists has dropped slightly, but remains very high.


I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #61
71. Oh, so you quote a poll about PRESIDENTIAL preferences
and that clears up the misunderstanding.
PRESIDENTIAL preference. Voting for a President.


Seriously, try to dig up some other meaningless poll.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
74. who has a better chance of being elected mayor of a major city?
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 09:53 AM by Beaker
a gay, a black, a jew, or an atheist?

which of the same group has been said not worthy of citizenship by a currently living U.S. Pesident and a U.S. Senator? (George H.W. Bush & Robert Byrd)

Athiests are by far the most stigmatized group of people out there...
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'll say other - physically, mentally or emotionally disabled
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 08:17 AM by demnan
because I believe first that anyone with a handicap has two struggles to get through. First, actually going through their problem, second, getting others to accept them as valuable members of society.

on edit: I think being morbidly obese does have its antisocial aspects, but I've ceased to care about people who are overly concerned about my body size, and I can get a good job and contribute to society.
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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. Native Americans
As long as I can remember, Native Americans have been overly demonized or overly romanticized, either pitied or cursed for their problems.

But -- they have never been compensated for their losses. When I moved to the Northwest, I cringed when I first saw their living conditions.
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Agree, n/t
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I agree with that.
And driving through the West I saw some appalling living conditions.
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uberotto Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. Southern Democrats...
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Poor people
How can anyone argue they are not the most stigmatized group?
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. Poor People!
Anyone abjectly poor is a symbol of personal failure and treated continually as an outsider...

In each of these categories, the ones that are 'down and out' usually stand a distant second to their 'charter group'
Let's face it...you can BUY inclusion anywhere in western world.
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EDT Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
26. Gun owners are 3rd biggest-
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 08:32 AM by EDT
1. Racism still takes the prize for villification.
2. GLBT- I think that's become accepted except among complete idiots
3. Gun owners take 3rd as being targets, unfortunately mostly by Dems.

Our dream is just to be left alone by anti-gunners, we don't invade your life, please don't invade ours.

Though I agree with the pro-abortion, pro-gay leanings on this board, I feel being a gun owner is a dark secret I keep quiet here except for the most inane attacks on us.

If you anti-gunners are worrying about the average Joe-Schmoe who wants to have a couple "evil" rifles in his safe for hunting, shooting, and self defense, you're missing the boat on where the threat lies.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. The old WASP is till king of the hill.
Look who is running the country in business and congress and courts. The poor seem to be the most put down as if is a sin and evil to not have a lot of money.
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tlrowe00 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. A lot of poor people are there b/c of choices they have made.
Poor people are looked down upon b/c a lot of them aren't helping themselves. In no other country can you start with nothing and make something of yourself through hard work and perseverance. Obstacles to overcome are tougher for some but I've seen too many success stories and am one myself to group all poor people in one bucket.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. There are many reasons why people are poor
Mental illness, physical illness, bad luck, bad family background, lack of intelligence or any type of skills, and yes, personal choices.
The poor are easy punching bags for politicians and others, because they often lack the resources or tools to fight back.
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tlrowe00 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Except for mental or physical illness all of the other reasons
can be overcome. Like I said some people have tougher roads to success but there are so many organizations and people out there willing to give someone a chance if a person shows diligence and the desire they can succeed. They might not ever become rich, but being a productive citizen and not a burden on society can be achieved quite easily.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Poor people are a burden on society?
Not all poor people are a burden on society.
Sounds like you are stigmatizing them because they are poor.
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tlrowe00 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. Burden on society if that equates to not paying income taxes
and using and obtaining federal funds including welfare etc. Then yes they are a burden on society. If we as taxpayers are paying their share then they are a burden on everyone else. Burden might not be the best word to describe it but depending on how you look at it they are a burden.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Oh, so poor people do not pay sales tax, property tax, or other taxes
And the richest Americans normally get out of their income taxes because of so many tax loopholes geared towards them.
Yes, rich people may pay income tax now, but do they really pay it?
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tlrowe00 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. Go to the IRS website and you will see who pays what taxes.
Yes there are loopholes but the top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of the taxes! And I'm not rich but I pay a good share of taxes and I don't agree that is fair. Because I work 65 hrs a week should I pay more of a percentage of taxes of my income compared to someone that only works 30 hrs. We should pay the same % of our income and therefore I would pay more but not % wise. When you take people completely off of the tax roll, there is no incentive to achieve.

Lieberman in 04
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. Huh?
"When you take people completely off of the tax roll, there is no incentive to achieve."

that sounds like so much Limbaughish jibberish...what exactly does it mean?
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. geez, looks like my little poll brought some types outa the woodwork!
We got yer atheist-haters and yer tax crybabies here, folks!
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #66
88. The top 50% of the wage earners?
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 11:32 AM by Hamlette
Actually I think the statistic is top 50% INCOME bracket (this is directly off Limbaugh's web site so I guess the poster has been there too) not wage earners.

BUT. . . the top 50% make 84% of the income in the nation. So paying 96% of the FEDERAL INCOME taxes is not so far off. (Rush doesn't tell you that on his web site. Look it up. Don't ever take anything at face value.) The better stat is the top 84% income bracket pays 96% of the FEDERAL INCOME taxes. But don't bother with the facts. It is a more inflammatory argument if you just cite Rush-the-drug-addict.

Additionally, all the other taxes are regressive, sales tax, FICA, state income taxes etc. so the top 84% pay far less than 96% of the taxes.
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Danocrat Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. Singles
Don't forget single people. An employer once told me that I didn't get a raise like a co-worker did who was hired with me and did the same job as me because I wasn't married and didn't have a child.
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EDT Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. That's an interesting one.
If I was a woman I'd have thought I'd be more worried about getting discriminated against if I became pregnant and having my boss concerned that I'm going to disappear for months to raise the child.




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Anaxamander Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Southerners. (nt)
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. How about very short men?
Or very tall women?
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
105. Interesting post.
There definitely *is* a bias against both, though probably not as pervasive as, say, racism. There's a newsgroup devoted to the issue, called alt.support.short, and also a Web site: www.shortsupport.org
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
45. African Americans and Native Americans have experienced the worst
discrimination. Both those groups were exploited in ways that go beyond what we in the modern world would call racism. The US government set out to exterminate the native americans in the 1800s. The african americans, under slavery, may not have been targeted for extermination, but were kidnapped, tortured, enslaved and designated as less than human by law for over 200 years, and then after that, openly and legally discriminated against for over 100 more (and continuing).

What the Nazis did to the jews, the US did to the native americans.
What the ancient Romans did to everyone they conquered, the US did to african-americans.
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sharkbait2 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
46. Muslims and Jews?
You list Christians and Atheists but not Muslims and Jews?

I'm suprised also that people of Middle Eastern descent only got one vote... Are you telling me a white homosexual male is less stigmatized in America than a Arab Muslim?
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. People judge by looks first
The old judging a book by its cover.

So, people who look a certain way, racial minorities and those whose dress does not conform to proper community standards(whatever they may be), will always be stigmatized first.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
107. Many Jews do have a "look".
Hassidim, for example; and those who choose to wear yarmulkes. Jews are also stereotyped as looking a certain way: kinky hair, big noses, etc.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. If you think Jews are stigmatized, then choose "other"
I had to pare it down somehow, and it is my (admittedly personal) opinion that Jews are not as stigmatized as they used to be. If your experience suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it. That's why I started the poll.

I happen to agree with you that men of Middle Eastern descent (I deliberately chose not to make a category of "Muslim") are stigmatized both because of their appearance and their religious practices.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Oh, so appearance DOES matter?!
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. For some people it does
I would never suggest otherwise. Plenty of people judge by looks alone. I try not to judge, period.
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sharkbait2 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #55
67. ???
"I deliberately chose not to make a category of "Muslim")

Why not? Not all Middle Easterners or Arabs are Muslims and there are plenty of non-Arab Muslims that are descriminated against and stigmitized based on their religion.

Did you deliberately choose not to list Muslims b/c you think they deserve to be stigmatized following 9-11?
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. You misunderstand
I chose not to create a "Muslim" category precisely because not all Middle Easterners are Muslims, and people are discriminated against solely because of how they look. I was trying to expose bias based on appearance in that particular instance.

I suppose it's possible to stigmatize someone AFTER learning his religious preference, as in the case of atheists, for example. I apologize if that category was insensitively phrased. I would never suggest that it's OK to stigmatize anybody.
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sharkbait2 Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. Thanks for the Clarification n/t
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #67
108. Fun fact.
Most Muslims are not Arabs.
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dave46 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
58. Probably
Muslims and Jews are too much of a minority I guess for people to notice them all too much, where as Christians are made fun of and steryotyped to no end. I think more people feel they can do this because it's the majority relegion and many of them at one time went to church or had relegious parents.

As diverse as our nation is though, we do quite well when it comes to racism and steryotypes. Most countries throughout the world couldn't handle this kind of diversity without ethnic wars.

As for atheists being stigmitized, I have as yet to see it, and, as I am a Christian, you think I would have by now. But I never do, I really doubt it's that bad. The whole GBLT thing, which has been voted as the #1 stigmitized group, isn't surprising as they are the latest and perhaps the last group in this country to be fighting for equality. Of course, all they really have left is marriage, but what surprises me is that the people who stigmitize are atheists as well as relegious idiots who don't read the Bible. As for stigmitizing, one can disagree with homosexuality without stigmitizing, just as one can disagree with lying or whatever.
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Mr_Scarecrow Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
94. What do you mean, dave46
that you have "yet to see" atheists being stigmatized? Have you been in a self-imposed news blackout for the past year? I feel you should do a little research on this issue.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
109. What are you talking about?
Christians aren't stereotyped or stigmatized at all. Where do you get this stuff?
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
106. About Muslims
Yes, there's a great deal of prejudice against them these days -- but there's also more sensitivity to prejudice against them, at least among some segments of the population. African Americans, Hispanics, and American Indians are dismissed as simply "imagining" their oppression.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
56. FAT PEOPLE
BY FAR
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. a short, fat, poor, gay, part-Amish, part-black, transgender
individual would win hands down.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. no, he'd have to choose one
to take the poll.
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EDT Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #56
82. Fat people, and the Fat Curious (FC)
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EDT Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #56
83. Fat people, and the Fat Curious (FC)
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
65. Other
The Osbournes.

rocknation



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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
72. Southern white guys are generally
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 09:44 AM by Rowdyboy
hated, automatically expected to be knuckle-dragging neanderthals and bigots, based on where we live, our skin color, and our sex. Guess what? We don't all drive pickups with gun racks and confederate flags. Some of us are pretty nice, mainstream people who want to see the Democratic party back in power.

Didn't say we're oppressed-but we are stigmatized.

(Who else can you ridicule on television and have people laugh?
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chemp Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
78. As an Athiest, I would say we are victims of ignorance...
but not persecuted.
Numerous folks, upon finding out my lack of faith, ask if I worship Satan, or just state, matter of factly, that I'm going to Hell.

From listening to the radio, and other folks at work, Hispanics(called wetbacks on air), the poor,and Anyone on welfare. Usually, they are all grouped together. IE all Hispanics are poor and on welfare.

Sickening.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. It's a kinda of sick right wing subtext.
Seems the word Criminal has the subtext minority attached to it in our society. Same with welfare mom, has the same kinda subtext to many people I've talked to. I don't know how that ended up happening, but I'm pretty sure it was intentional.

I've have the same experiences as an Atheist myself, by the by.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
79. In my opinion
several groups vie for the most discriminated against category: atheists, obese people, GBLT strike me as pretty much the same in discrimination against. Some categories matter more in different parts of the country. Here in the Midwest being openly progressive, liberal, and Democrat isn't a good idea, although I'm not sure actual discrimination is happening against us.

The idea that fundamentalist Christians are discrimated against makes me laugh. Especially given that they're currently running the country.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Agree totally
But they THINK they're persecuted. And this poll is about perception as much as it's about anything else.

They think the godless liberals are out to kill their fetuses.
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sasha hah Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #79
121. It's all relative, isn't it?
Stigmatized by whom?

The paradox here is that:
Intolerant monotheists will stigmatize atheists.
Intolerant slender people will stigmatize obese people.
Intolerant straight people will stigmatize GBLT people.
Intolerant non-fundamentalists will stigmatize fundamentalists.
Intolerance swings both ways. What comes around goes around.

There is intolerance at all extremes of the political spectrum.
Stigmatizing people is based on emotions and not generosity, compassion or reason.

The intolerance of Democrat extremists alienates people of good will that otherwise might share the Democratic tent. I would remind you, for example, that Jimmy Carter was a fundamentalist Christian.

There are many in the Democratic Party now that are expressing hate, anger and intolerance. It is an ugly and dangerous trend. Some of them are now even stigmatizing Jews. If you don't believe this, spend time on any major college campus. I think this is a very dangerous trend within the party, and could lead to a form of left-wing fascism.

The 'hope' expressed by many Democrats for America's failure in the war against Saddam Hussein is a perfect example of this insanity.

Sasha
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
84. Hard to say
Many of the groups and people that stigmatize one of us, do so for most or all of the rest.

I think a case could be made for several groups on the list. The GL&T certainly has a case, though I know straight whites who are more tolerant because, "they don't our children." Whereas African-Americans do. Arab or Muslim Americans also have a case and I am sure, in some way, all of the other groups do as well.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
86. you forgot white Christian men
whoops--sorry wrong board

:bounce:
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
87. Mental illness
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 10:41 AM by Blue_Chill
No one cares enough to understand what they go thru, they just don't want them around.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
89. Is this really a discussion . .
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 10:52 AM by msmcghee
. . about who is "more stigmatized than thou?"

That's like people in the hospital arguing that a left arm amputaion is more deserving of pity than a right hand.

How about the idea that no-one should be stigmatized in a country that values liberty and equality. Somone who stigmatizes one group is capable and likely to stigmatize others.

Only stigmatizers should be stigmatized. Leave the stigmatees alone, please.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
90. Atheist
in a landslide. It is easier for us in that we don't have to tell anyone what we are, but once you do, they think you are a nut case.

In my office about 25% of us are atheists but no one outside of us knows that. I'm open about my beliefs but none of the rest of them are.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #90
117. How can you be stigmatized if no one knows you are an atheist?
Kind of goes against the whole definition of stigmatized.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
91. glbt
If the christofacist ever get control of this country I fear for our glbt brothers & sisters. They will be the primary scapgoats for the reactionaries and could be slated for the same treatment as by the 3rd reich.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
92. Introverted individuals. Regardless of background and age.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
93. Racism is still the ticking time bomb in America.
I realize that you said "stigmatized" rather than oppressed. But, racism, particularly against African-Americans, still exists throughout society and is still silently condoned by a very large portion of it. And, it's effects are devastating.

As far as stigmatization, well, I'm a straight, white, male, socialist, agnostic with Buddhist leanings, who doesn't give a rip for sports, reads lots of books, prefers classical music, owns a pickup (a Toyota), likes movies with subtitles, and doesn't think that the USA (or, any other country), is the "greatest" country in the world.

Plenty of room for stigmatization there.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
95. fat catholics
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CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
96. Pot smokers.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. How about pot-smoking atheists?
gay pot-smoking atheists?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
97. Other...
people who mind their own business and try not to discriminate against anyone, but who get hit over the head all the time with this stuff anyway.

Lotta "victims" here.

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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
98. other
native americans
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
99. I get more crap for being an atheist than being gay.
I say atheist.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
102. well, those jews-for-jesus people seem to get a lot of crap...
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
103. Black Atheist Handicapped Mentally Ill Overweight Lesbians
Edited on Tue Dec-23-03 05:08 PM by arwalden
Six whammy's at once.

-- Allen

(I voted GLBT)
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #103
115. I knew it would come down to this...
is there a support group for the trans-stigmatized?
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
110. fat people or maybe the ugly
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CShine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
111. Not that I'm defending them here, but definitely registered sex offenders.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
112. Fat people
probably. I have seen stories done with hidden camera and would never have believed how badly they are treated and the awful things that strangers say to them.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
113. As a transgendered, atheist, progressive . . .
. . liberal, pot-smoker, don't I qualify for some award here?
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. OK, you win!
what would you like your prize to be?
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. Wait a minute....
I thought you said earlier today you could only pick ONE category.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. My poll, my rules
I choose to IGNORE rude people. Bye.
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fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
119. This thread should have been called "Oh, those poor atheists"

Let's feel sorry for them.

Because that was the intent of it.

Any 100 level Sociology professor would probably laugh at the idea of atheists being the most stigmatized group.

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Laszlo_Hollyfeld Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-03 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
120. This poll can't possibly offer anything more than
reinforcement for otherwise invalid perceptions.

Before the poll could have any meaning we'd have to know the background of all of those responding. A all it tells us is that by and large, folks are more concerned with their own issues than anyone else's.

The issue isn't which group is more persecuted, it's that all groups have suddenly become fair game for persecution. It has come to a point in our society where it's fashionable to hate, trendy to use racial epithets, and pretty much expected that we'll all take an "us and them" attitude. We need to stop focusing on how persecuted we feel for our differences. You folks who work in an office, - do defensive people ever actually get anything accomplished? Why do you suppose that is?
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