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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:33 AM
Original message
Gadhafi's decision on WMD program=more good news for Bush
The decision of Libya to scrap its WMD program will be interpeted by Bush and his supporters in the press as yet another victory in the war on Terrorism. This time they will say, "Look by invading Iraq and our actions in Afghanistan we were able to convince Gadhafi that we mean business without having to invade his country."

It seems really convienient the way everything seems to be falling into place for Bush of late. Make's one wonder if in a few months perhaps just in time for the conventions the US will just happen to capture Bin-Ladden. If that happens we may just be kissing this election goodbye--no matter who the candidate is, i'm afraid.

Sorry about the pessimistic tone of this thread. But we have some powerful adversaries: an incumbent president who will use his power to do anything to win the next election and a national press corp which has spent most of the last 3 years propping him up despite one disaster after another.
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demvoter Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes but
one should look at the real reasons that Libya pres made this decision.
I am sure that his agenda was not to help bu$h win an election or was it??? Hmmmm...
The reason that he made this decision was to have the sanctions lifted but it was also stated that he wants his country and ours to do business again. hmmm.....
Does this mean jobs will be outsourced to Libya now? :think:
Dubya and Libya, point is we all know that dubya does whats good for dubya PERIOD, unfortunately all that the American people will see is that he is winning the war on terroism.
Now we (the Dems ) have to come up with a new strategy, the argument can no longer be raised, he lied about the war etc. Granted we KNOW he lied about the war amongst tons of other lies but the DNC has to come up with new strategy to counteract the ones the repugs are using..
and FAST!

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max2000 Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think so
gaddafi is a terrorist, who is basically buying his way into good favor. the pan am families were not all too happy with the settlement for murdering their loved ones.

Bush uses terrorism as his Godly endevour of good v evil. But this is a good example of bush business as usual, got enough money, and he'll do anything for anyone, even a muderer like gaddafi.

Dems need to remind people of the other nuclear threat bush has chosen to ignore. N. korea and it's paranoid dictator.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Where are you??????Did not Reagan save us fron Russia?
What we did for 40 years does not come into it with the Bush people or GOP. The wall came down when he was Prez so he did it all.Also this country must have something some company wants. This guy in power has been working at this for a long time.
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PSR40004 Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Libya has oil
Bush needs cheap oil to get re elected, anything he can do to get us $1.25/gal gas he will do.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Even more natural gas than Iraq...
More than twice as much.

From the CIA Factbook:

Since he took power in a 1969 military coup, Col. Muammar Abu Minyar al-QADHAFI has espoused his own political system - a combination of socialism and Islam - which he calls the Third International Theory. Viewing himself as a revolutionary leader, he used oil funds during the 1970s and 1980s to promote his ideology outside Libya, even supporting subversives and terrorists abroad to hasten the end of Marxism and capitalism. Libyan military adventures failed, e.g., the prolonged foray of Libyan troops into the Aozou Strip in northern Chad was finally repulsed in 1987. Libyan support for terrorism decreased after UN sanctions were imposed in 1992. Those sanctions were suspended in April 1999.

Lubya petroleum, natural gas, phosphates, sulfur

Oil Production:
1.429 million bbl/day (2001 est.)

Compare to:
Iraq 2.452 million bbl/day (2001 est.); note - production was disrupted as a result of the March-April 2003 war (2001 est.)
Venezuela 3.08 million bbl/day (2001 est.)

Oil, Proved Reserves:
Libya 29.75 billion bbl (37257)

Compare to:
Iraq 113.8 billion bbl (37257)
Venezuela 63.95 billion bbl (37257)

Natural Gas, Proved Reserves:
Libya 6.18 billion cu m (2001 est.)

Compare to:
Iraq 2.76 billion cu m (2001 est.)
Venezuela 31.71 billion cu m (2001 est.)

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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. But the inspections aren't working.
We have to invade now.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. How much did the US bribe them?
There are trillions of unaccounted for dollars in the Pentagon budget floating around. I'll bet that they bribed them behind the scenes, and then got them to agree to keeping the "sanctions" in place to make it look like we weren't completely letting Kaddafi off the hook.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. Gadhafi's been on this campaign for some time now,
to get rid of their pariah status. Long before *'s selection.

More to the point though, when any of these countries give up WMD programs, it's good news. Period.

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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. this has been in the works for a long time..* will take credit from
anywhere to boost his numbers.

Ever since Kahdafi's (sp?) daughter was killed...hes been singing a different toon.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Gadafi's Going For The EuroDollars...
and he can't do it without American and British sanctions lifted. This keeps his good, high-priced crude off the spot markets or has to go through a third-party that cuts out his profits.

For years Gadafi's been turned off by the Pan-Arab causes he once championed. I think things went downhill for him starting with the '86 bombing and the lack of support from his fellow Arabs and then the subsequent isolation his country suffered in the wake of the Pan-Am attack. The implosion of the Soviet Union (remember, he was very cozy to the USSR in the Brezhnev days) took out his biggest money and arms dealer and no Arab state was willing to do business with him (the guy must have bad breath or something).

I remember Gadafi being interviewed several years ago on CNN (he even did it in English) where he said he wanted to come clean about the Pan-Am attack and other issues that kept the embargo in place...thus the long road (and I'm certain this interview happened during the Clinton administration)back from political and economic isloation.

Remember, Libya is surrounding by Egypt and Tunisia (both very strong U.S. allies) and it's largest trading partner is Italy, lifting the embargo opens up his economy to a lot of dollars and euros. He's just like Castro...cashing in during their last days.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Looking at the "fact book" I didn't realize their population was 5 million
For some reason I thought it was at least double that.

Had an interesting page on goggle about the Jewish population in Libya 1911-1970

Population of Libyan Jews in 1931
(One dot equals 100 people)
In 1931 there were 24,534 Jews...(4% of the total population). They were dispersed in 15 localities,with about 15,000 of them in Tripoli. In 1936, the Jews suffered from Italians fascist anti-Jewish legislation.

Population of Libyan Jews in 1948
(One dot equals 100 people)
In 1948 about 38,000 Jews lived in Libya, of whom about 20,000 lived in Tripoli. Demographically, the population in Libya was very stable untill 1948 when the State of Israel was established. Unprecedented Jewish mass migration took place by way of Tripoli and Tunisia between May 1948 and January 1949 when about 2,500 left the country.

(One dot equals 100 people)

Population of Libyan Jews in 1951
(One dot equals 100 people)
When the British permitted legal emigration to Israel in 1949, many immediately took advantage of it. At the end of 1951, 30,000 Jews emigrated, leaving about 8,000 Jews in Libya. Most of them lived in Tripoli, about 400 in Benghazi, and none remained in the smaller towns and villages.

Population of Libyan Jews in 1970
(One dot equals 100 people)
"With the outbreak of the coup by Col. Qaddafi on Sept. 1, 1969, the 400-500 Jews remaining in Libya were concentrated in a camp in Tripoli. These included Libyan citizens, bearers of foreign citizenship (British, French, Italian), and those bearing no citizenship. At the end of 1970 only some 90 Jews remained in Libya."

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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. It won't be that big of a deal
Does anyone really fret about Libya anymore? Did Bush even name them in his little axis? Did anyone even think that they had WMD?

Now, if Syria or Iran bent over, that would be news.

I'm more concerned with them planting WMD in Iraq just before the elections.
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Sanctions
Just heard on the news the oil companies have been after * to lift sanctions on Libia. * has held off because Libia is supposed to have WMD. Now that they "say" they will let inspectors in he can bend over to the oil companies and lift the sanctions. There probably was a good bribe included in the deal.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm,sounds bad rather than good to me....
Good news that any country does not have or will scrap any WMD will go through the news cycle like shit through a goose.

If Gaddafi's had pounded his fist on the table and challenged Bush then that would be GREAT news for Chimpboy and his thugs. Invade yet another country and make the World safer for Murikans.

Oh yeah,Halliburton already has all the contracts for the Libya clean-up so no need for you people wanting a piece of the action to bid...

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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. I really don't think so
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 09:47 AM by pbl
There was a family member of one of the victims on CNN this morning and he was none too happy. He came up with all kinds of scenarios to relate this to and he said how come we are doing business with someone who has killed Americans. We won't even deal with Castro and he hasn't killed any Americans. He asked if Bush* would cut a deal with Saddam Hussein if he showed him where the WMDs are and renounced his past deeds. The man was on point. Said that this decision is based solely on greed, big business and oil and it's a shame that these are the things driving our decisions.

The presstitutes will try to play this up as good news for Bush* but in the coming days I think enough people are going to recognize the hypocrisy and call Bush* on it. Well, I can dream can't I?

On Edit: spelling
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. ridiculous
anything that happens is going to be interpreted by Bush supporters and all of their minions in the media as a success for Bush. If Gaddafi had exploded a nuclear weapon it would be spun and spun as a victory for Bush.

I'd suggest turning off the television. Because regardless of the spin, the reality out there, both in the world and in this country, bode very poorly for the Bush regime.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. bush* "i looked into his eyes and saw his soul and it was good"
shades of "pooty poot"

i wouldn't trust libya's leader as far as i could toss my neighbors cow
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