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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 09:48 PM
Original message
C-Span: Silence of the Lamb
Any math majors out there? Perhaps you can explain this to me ...

I was watching C-Span's parade of Wall Street Journal reporters this morning ...

An irate woman called in to complain about how C-Span shows such a strong bias in how it handles calls it receives from the public. She explained that too many anti-bush, anti-GOP calls were being put through ...

C-Span founder and CEO Brian Lamb explained to the woman that they take calls on alternating lines between those who support bush and those who oppose him ... The caller continued to carp about unfair treatment at which point Lamb cut her off ...

In putting the issue to rest, Mr. Lamb went on to explain that the woman had nothing to complain about because, even though C-Span's calls generally run 10-1 against bush and the GOP, they maintain "an even handed policy" by taking turns between calls on the pro-bush line and calls on the anti-bush line.

Does this sound "fair and balanced" to you ?? It sure doesn't to me ... Why if callers are 10 to 1 against bush doesn't that represent the ratio among calls taken on the show? Why should views held by only 1 in 11 callers be given equal time to views held by 10 of 11 callers?

And with Mr. Murdoch's takeover of DirectTV, things are only likely to get worse for us C-Spanners ...
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 09:54 PM
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1. I was laughing when I heard that this morning.
The woman was outraged that she had to listen to all those liberals bashing our dubious leader and Lamb smacked her down with the 10 to 1 comment. I don't have a problem with CSPAN taking calls one for one because equal weight given to both sides spurs debate.

I can understand why Republicans are so outnumbered on CSPAN since most of them are physically unable to listen to an opposing viewpoint.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. I missed it on c-span
But if you are correct, I agree with you!
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 09:55 PM
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3. I can see why they try to balance the calls.
They are not supposed to be partisan. I'm surprised he let it be known that the calls run 10 - 1 against Bush. I think it is great he said that on the air.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. It seems pretty obvious..
I've been watching some mornings when they'vehas to let several dem callers in a row go ahead because no one had called in yet on the pro-Bush line. And I agree that Right wingers just can't handle dissent.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. I would lose my mind if all I heard were calls from our side
Even though most Bush*-lovers are ridiculous, you can learn a lot if you listen and try to understand what they are thinking. If I want to hear just our side represented-- I come to DU.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. When calls run in that ratio against Bush...
or any subject matter, they should run a 2 : 1 call for the overwhelming majority. That would be fair, IMO, and would reflect more of the reality of the callers.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:01 PM
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6. Well, that would be fine if everyone played fair, but
Freepers have been known to Freep things. If they let it be proportional to callers, hundreds of mind-controlled Freepers with no lives would be calling in to say how manly George Bush's package looks in a flight suit (or something else just as stupid).
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:06 PM
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7. 50/50 is the way to go...
I remember a republican on in the past who wanted calls based on the President's approval rating.. I believe he said it right around the Iraq war "major combat operations" ended.

The party that is out of power likely would dominate the phone lines because you only want to bitch when you aren't getting your way, precisely why people don't phone into a company's management when they get good service, only bad service.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm listening to that now and so far I haven't heard it.
But I am surprised Brian would say that they generally run 10-1 against Bush. Plus I don't think that's true. The calls are usually 50/50, sometimes 40/60 or 60/40 but most times it's 50/50. They aim it that way. C-Span is very fair. Even if all their moderators were right wing (I don't think they are), they keep their politics to themselves.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I think it's toward the beginning of the second hour.
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babzilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Lamb is saying the calls come in 10-1 against bush
but the calls put on air are 50/50.

Thank you for C-span Brian Lamb, you are a true patriot who really gets the democracy thang.

A camera on the congress? What a concept, whatever did we do without it?

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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Anyone know the Krugman quote on this?
I keep forgetting it. But it's something along the lines of "Experts declare world is round. Others disagree."

No responsibility for arbitrating between fact and propaganda; your only responsibility as a news editor is to give "both" sides. Even when expert opinion is 99 to 1, as in the case of global warming. We still have to seek out that 1% and act as if they had equal claim to credibility. Basically the same principle here, obviously complicated by the fact that it's politics and there's a much higher proportion of subjectivity in the mix. But still, supposing it was 1000 to 1 anti-Bush. Do we still alternate? Do we wait around for that lonesome loony to call in, or do we just admit that, whatever the latest Gannet News Survey says, the administration has lost it?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. "both" sides but in what proportion
This whole discussion dances dangerously close to the issue of proportional representation ...

It also raises a few parallels to the issue of presidential debates and whether some or all minor parties should have their chance to be heard ...

Your question about a 1000 to 1 tilt is a good one ... someone higher up in this thread said they have to be 50-50 because they can't be partisan ... I would certainly argue that if calls were 1000 to 1 and they gave 50-50 representation, they would be acting in an extremely partisan manner ...

and the gist of my post is that 50-50 is unfair even with a 10 to 1 ratio ... i'm not suggesting that views, both pro and con, about bush shouldn't be well represented ... i'm arguing that calls that get put on the air should more or less reflect the views of those who call ...

imagine holding an election where one party turns out voters in their favor with a 10 to 1 ratio ... imagine the poll workers only allowing a vote for one party after a vote has been cast for the other party ... it would certainly produce a very nice and balanced outcome ... it would not produce a very democratic system, however ...
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babzilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Tocqueville explains it all
TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY.
How the principle of the sovereignty of the people is to be understood--Impossibility of conceiving a mixed government--The sovereign power must exist somewhere--Precautions to be taken to control its action --These precautions have not been taken in the United States --Consequences.

I hold it to be an impious and detestable maxim that, politically speaking, the people have a right to do anything; and yet I have asserted that all authority originates in the will of the majority. Am I, then, in contradiction with myself?

A general law, which bears the name of justice, has been made and sanctioned, not only by a majority of this or that people, but by a majority of mankind. The rights of every people are therefore confined within the limits of what is just. A nation may be considered as a jury which is empowered to represent society at large and to apply justice, which is its law. Ought such a jury, which represents society, to have more power than the society itself whose laws it executes?

When I refuse to obey an unjust law, I do not contest the right of the majority to command, but I simply appeal from the sovereignty of the people to the sovereignty of mankind. Some have not feared to assert that a people can never outstep the boundaries of justice and reason in those affairs which are peculiarly its own; and that consequently full power may be given to the majority by which it is represented. But this is the language of a slave.

A majority taken collectively is only an individual, whose opinions, and frequently whose interests, are opposed to those of another individual, who is styled a minority. If it be admitted that a man possessing absolute power may misuse that power by wronging his adversaries, why should not a majority be liable to the same reproach? Men do not change their characters by uniting with one another; nor does their patience in the presence of obstacles increase with their strength.3 For my own part, I cannot believe it; the power to do everything, which I should refuse to one of my equals, I will never grant to any number of them.

I do not think that, for the sake of preserving liberty, it is possible to combine several principles in the same government so as really to oppose them to one another. The form of government that is usually termed mixed has always appeared to me a mere chimera. Accurately speaking, there is no such thing as a mixed government in the sense usually given to that word, because in all communities some one principle of action may be discovered which preponderates over the others. England in the last century, which has been especially cited as an example of this sort of government, was essentially an aristocratic state, although it comprised some great elements of democracy; for the laws and customs of the country were such that the aristocracy could not but preponderate in the long run and direct public affairs according to its own will. The error arose from seeing the interests of the nobles perpetually contending with those of the people, without considering the issue of the contest, which was really the important point. When a community actually has a mixed government--that is to say, when it is equally divided between adverse principles--it must either experience a revolution or fall into anarchy.

I am therefore of the opinion that social power superior to all others must always be placed somewhere; but I think that liberty is endangered when this power finds no obstacle which can retard its course and give it time to moderate its own vehemence.

Unlimited power is in itself a bad and dangerous thing. Human beings are not competent to exercise it with discretion. God alone can be omnipotent, because his wisdom and his justice are always equal to his power. There is no power on earth so worthy of honor in itself or clothed with rights so sacred that I would admit its uncontrolled and all-predominant authority. When I see that the right and the means of absolute command are conferred on any power whatever, be it called a people or a king, an aristocracy or a democracy, a monarchy or a republic, I say there is the germ of tyranny, and I seek to live elsewhere, under other laws.

In my opinion, the main evil of the present democratic institutions of the United States does not arise, as is often asserted in Europe, from their weakness, but from their irresistible strength. I am not so much alarmed at the excessive liberty which reigns in that country as at the inadequate securities which one finds there against tyranny. an individual or a party is wronged in the United States, to whom can he apply for redress? If to public opinion, public opinion constitutes the majority; if to the legislature, it represents the majority and implicitly obeys it; if to the executive power, it is appointed by the majority and serves as a passive tool in its hands. The public force consists of the majority under arms; the jury is the majority invested with the right of hearing judicial cases; and in certain states even the judges are elected by the majority. However iniquitous or absurd the measure of which you complain, you must submit to it as well as you can.4

If, on the other hand, a legislative power could be so constituted as to represent the majority without necessarily being the slave of its passions, an executive so as to retain a proper share of authority, and a judiciary so as to remain independent of the other two powers, a government would be formed which would still be democratic while incurring scarcely any risk of tyranny.

I do not say that there is a frequent use of tyranny in America at the present day; but I maintain that there is no sure barrier against it, and that the causes which mitigate the government there are to be found in the circumstances and the manners of the country more than in its laws.
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