Should artists be judged on their politics?

[Michael Daniels]

Should one eliminate all appreciation for an artist just because you don't like his or her politics?

Re: Bob Hope...so what if the guy voted Republican and was back-slapping buddy-buddy with some Repub politicians? The question that should matter is did you enjoy the product Hope produced through their respective medium?

At least that's how I see it. There are a lot of actors, musicians, etc. that I may not agree with on political issues but I enjoy their music or their films and see no reason to diminish their contributions to the art form just because of their political beliefs.

It seems ironic that when Polanski won the Academy Award this year a lot of people on this site were willing to overlook his criminal sexual encounter with a drugged-up minor and his fleeing the country to avoid prosecution as irrelevant to his art.

Yet Bob Hope gets "Good riddance. Fuc*in Repuke bastard should rot in hell" because he voted Republican.

Go figure....

[rjbcar27]

1. Not in my opinion.

An artist/sportsman/entertainer/whatever is purely that to me. I don't care about his or her politics. If they're entertaining, that's good enough for me.

[sirshack]

2. If you're simply concerned about someones politics...

...you seriously need to get a life.

[theboss]

3. No, unless their art is propaganda

With someone like Michael Moore or Mel Gibson these days, it's hard to separate the two. When art and politics become inseperable, you have to consider both when judging the person.

What I don't get is why people suddenly hate Arnold Swartzeneger's movies or Charlton Heston's movies. Yes, both are active Republicans. But I defy you to find a "Republican" message in their best films. (Not that they are the same class as actors, but Arnold has made some really fun flicks).

Here is the ultimate dilemma for me right now. Jeffrey Jones is now a convicted sex offender. Does this mean I have to start hating Amadeus, Ferris Bueller and Beetlejuice?

[vi5]

4. My philosophy is reward but don't punish....

In other words, I personally will support entertainers who I know share my ideals, particularly those that speak out and/or get chastized for doing so. But I don't dislike or won't boycott ones who don't share my ideals if I respect the person as an artist or entertainer.

In other words, I have purchased Dixie Chicks CD's even though I'll never listen to them and on the flipside I will still listen to early Ted Nugent and enjoy James Woods as an actor even though I abhor their politics.

[Melsky]

5. I can appreciate art by conservatives

but not as much.

I post on a message board for artists. There was a political discussion, and some artists who I had liked a lot posted freeperish things like "anyone who critisizes the president should leave the country so we can get new immigrants who will be respectful to take their place."

Now when I see art by them, it is always tainted. I can recognise the talent, but I have such negative feelings towards them that I can't enjoy the art.

[gemini_liberal]

6. of course they shouldn't

however they shouldn't use their medium to force their politics on us either, no matter what political orientation they are.

[quinnox]

7. Generally speaking, I don't care what

the political leanings of entertainers are as long as they are entertaining. For example, I know Schwarzenegger is a repub, but that doesn't diminish my pleasure of the original Terminator movie. Heck, my best friend is a Republican! We just don't talk politics very often.

[CWebster]

8. He did alot more than just vote Republican

He was in the same league as the Duke.

How does one not take these things into account? I will admit to a greater appreciation for those whose politics and general world view I can at least respect.

In addition, "art" is not the word I would use. ;-)

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Comedian

He was a COMEDIAN. If you don't consider one of the funniest and good-hearted comedians of all time an artist, then you need a new definition of the word.

Who cares what his politics are, he was a great man.

[davidinalameda]

9. when they inject politics into their art

then they are opening themselves up to be judged

Bob Hope was a big Republican supporter. He made no secret about it and made anti-Democratic jokes. I remember watching one time as a kid and was appalled at something he said.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

15. That's exactly how I feel too.

If they don't bring politics into their craft, then I could not care less about their political leanings. But when an "entertainer" confronts me with their political views as part of their craft (for example, Rush Limbaugh), then I have EVERY right to judge them in political terms.

[BurtWorm]

10. I'm reading "The Red and the Blacklist" by Norma Barzman

whose husband Ben wrote the screenplay for "Back to Bataan." She shares some amusing anecdotes about how her communist husband and his friend director Edward Dmytryk (one of the Hollywood 10) used to try to make life really, really hard for John Wayne, who liked to brag about how he did all his own stunts. As much as they disagreed politically, the lefties and Wayne had a respect and affection for each other.

Some friendships and professional relationships in Hollywood in the 1940s and 1950s transcended politics. Gary Cooper, for instance, was courageous in his defense of Stanley Kramer and Carl Foreman, who produced and wrote the screenplay of "High Noon," which is essentially a metaphor for McCarthyist hysteria and public paralysis in the face of it. Cooper was one of the original "friendly witnesses" whose trestimony to HUAC supposedly justified the search for reds in Hollywood. But Cooper apparently felt bad about his symbolic role. He seems to have consciously used his notoriety as a red-baiter to defend "High Noon" from charges of anti-Americanism. As far as I know, his politics didn't change. But his humanity remained in tact.

[bloom]

11. It's not so much their political party, but

If I think they are mean and hateful and really misguided like Charlton Heston, then yeah - I would avoid their products.

And if I like someone's statements like Micheal Moore's - then I pay money to see his films.

I bought a Dixie Chick's CD because I liked their statement.

I have generally avoided Woody Allen's later movies because now he gives me the creeps. And his movies reflect his thoughts on love and sex.

When I buy visual art - it is generally without political statements - but if I were to buy art with a political statement/slant - it would be liberal, not conservative. The art that I have is loose and expressive. I see conservative art as being tight and repressed. Thomas Kincaid makes me nauseous and I would not support his "art" with ANY money whatsoever. ( I see Media Arts as a money machine, Not art.)

[redeye]

12. Nope

An artist is an artist. I judge artists and most intellectuals regardless of their politics; thus, for example, I think that Bruce Willis is an excellent actor, and screw the fanatics who don't like him because he votes Republican, Hank forbid. By the same token, by the way, I expect conservatives to think of Michael Moore et al as directors/artists/actors/whatever first and leftists second; I think that the Dixie Chicks boycott, for example, was the height of idiocy and ideology mattering more than life.

[Loonman]

13. No, of course not

I just think Bob was unfunny throughout his career, and for the last ten years, he talked like he was tripping on hard acid during TV interviews.


I think Chuck Heston is an ass, but I like the Planet of the Apes movie.

[blm]

14. Bob Hope really liked Clinton and thought he did a great job....

Clinton won him over. Hope always preferred those who CAN DO over those who perform badly.

[Walt Starr]

16. I take it into account when spending money

I choose not to support Republicans who will take profits made from my patronage and donate to Repuke causes. It doesn't mean their work is not good, it simply means I choose not to contribute to their monetary gain because of their politics.

Mel Gibson comes to mind as somebody whose movies I will not watch because of his politics.

[thom1102]

17. If they are republican, Yes. Democrat's: then it's wrong!

Just kidding.

Just like we all have our right to free speech and the right to our own disparate opinions (including celebrities), I think we also have a right as consumers to make our judgements based on what is important to us, individually. I choose not to purchase beer from Coors because of its founders politics (besides it tastes like warm pee). Should that extend toward artists? I would think that it would depend on who the artist was and what they did to earn your ire. If abortion is an important issue to you, and your favorite celeb was on the six o'clock news being dragged away from an abortion clinic protest for throwing blood on a patron, well then you may well never want to put money in that celebs pocket again.

I know that when Guns and Roses was big, Axel Rose wore a t-shirt in public that said "Aids Kills Fags Dead." Now I was never a GNR fan, but this just sealed my distaste for him personally, and ensured that no matter what he does in the future, no penny I ever earned would ever find its way into his pocket.

[GOPEC]

18. All art is political

Art either supports the established order, sustains it through the diversion it provides, or challenges it directly. Why did Karl Rove meet with Hollywood muckety-mucks after September 11? To exploit the leverage the event gave him.

Still, it's funny how the messages of a movie (for example) can be so mixed. How many Schwartzenegger movies placed him at odds with an evil corporation, a corrupt military or a government conspiracy? Likewise Gibson (Conspiracy Theory), or even Charleton Heston.

There's a lot of calculation you have to do if you base your consumption of art exclusively upon your politics, so I just listen to The Clash all day.

[bloom]

19. P.S. - Is it entertainment or is it art?

I think if you are going to consider this question - that has to be a large part of it. If someone is in sports - it doesn't matter what they think about politics. If someone is a comedian or an author - that person could work without political involvement or it could be totally political, or somewhere in between.

Some people think that Rush Limbaugh is quite the comedian. Should he be judged on his politics. Well, yeah. I can't stand to listen to him.

If politics are a part of what someone does, then that is part of the judgement. I haven't seen anything Bob Hope has done in years. And since my TV isn't getting any channels, I haven't heard anything lately, either. But if he put down women, made fun of MLK's death. Call it politics, call it whatever. Yeah - that affects my opinion of his "ART".

[Devils Advocate NZ]

20. No... But should a man be judged on his art alone?

I agree to a point with what you are saying, but let me ask you something... Should everything a man does become secondary to his accomplishments in his art?

For example, does being a great comedian equate to being a great American?

Here is a direct quote posted on another thread:

"Bob was one of the great Americans of our time.
He treated EVERY president with respect & humor. A legend a true American legend. Good Night Mr. Hope and thanks for the memories."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=92185&mesg_id=92185&page=#92297

Yes, I would agree with him being a great comedian, or great entertainer, but great American? I don't know. From what I have read in recent threads on DU, it appears that Hope was a greedy (ie no charitable works even though he was extremely rich) two-timing (cheated on his wife) racist (made jokes about Martin Luther King's death at the Academy Awards).

Now if none of these things happened, then Bob Hope was in fact a great man, but if ALL of these things happened, then no matter how funny his jokes, and no matter how much he supported (ie told jokes to) the troops, I would find it hard pressed to call him "great".

After all, even Pauly Shore made a few million people laugh in his time.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Not everybody...

gave Polanski a pass on the old rape charge.

Nor did everyone give Ezra Pound a pass. Or Wagner.

Heston, anyone? Leni Reifenstahl?

Dixie Chicks? Dylan?

An artist's work can transcend the artist, particularly after the artist has been dead a while, but this becomes an emotional issue for some. Or a political issue.

Would I boycott a Polanski or Heston film because of what I think of them? Perhaps, if I thought it would make a decent statement, or if I just felt like not lining their pockets.

The work stands alone, though, and at some point the artist becomes irrelevant, and it's only the work that counts.

Wagner is my favorite example as a thoroughly repugnant individual who went so far as to wear gloves so that he would not have to "touch Jew music" when royalty requested him to play a Mendelssohn concerto.

But, Wagner the man is now roasting in the hell he made for himself, and while the Ring may be an acquired taste, Lohengrin, Tristan and Isolde and a few other works have some of the most beautiful music ever created. (Often best listened to without the singing, I might add-- French and Italian are far more suited to opera for most of our delicate ears.)

I have no idea how such a black soul could create such ethereal music, but the art lives forever, and damn the man.

[Garage Queen]

26. My favorite quote about Wagner

is from a book review that appeared in "Opera News" :

"Wagner is like a hole: the deeper you dig, the blacker it gets."

And Wagner MUST be an acquired taste. I made the mistake of attending a performance of MEISTERSINGER at the Met a couple years back. The damned thing was so long and sooooo boring I was ready to throw myself under a subway train when it was over.

Leni Reifenstahl has always been a difficult one. Yes, the woman was a MASTER at putting together beautiful imagery of the athletic human body in motion, but, when you think about WHY she was doing it .... (shudder)

[October]

22. He may have been republican

back in the days when republicans were republicans. Dems and Repubs could agree to disagree not so long ago.

We have radicals in office now!

[NightTrain]

23. No

Despite their right-wing political leanings, I liked some of Schwarzenegger's movies, I thought "Win Ben Stein's Money" was funny as hell, and I always enjoyed Kelsey Grammer as Dr. Frasier Crane on "Cheers." (I've never seen "Frasier" itself, though.)

I do, however, hate Ted Nugent's music, but that happened long before I found out he was a fascistic gun-lover.

[Dob Bole]

24. Politics is a part of each person....

so it can't be ignored. We can't really fit every aspect of our lives into neat little compartments like that. So yes, we do judge people based on their politics, whether it's the ideal to do so or not. For example, I like U2 and Pearl Jam better because of their politics. I now hate the Dixie Chicks less, though I still don't listen to their music.