The REAL reason Dean supporters support him...

[CTLawGuy]

it is not because of the war, or because of "kool aid", or because of anger.

People support him because he GETS IT.

He understands that in order to win, the Democratic party must stand for something, it must represent its constituency in government. 2002 was a disaster because the Democrats were so afraid of Bush they barely ran campaigns. Cleland and Carnahan voted for the war and the tax cuts in a desparate atttempt to save their seats and lost them. The reason the party out of power is successful in midterms is that they run against not only their opponents but the president as well. We never ran against Bush. We were too afraid of 9/11 and swing voters, and Dukakis.

We, the Democratic people have been frustrated for at least two years because of our party's lack of fight.

Dean came on to the stage not afraid to criticize the Dem leadership for not fighting for us. He is not afraid of George Bush, and he believes the only way for the party to win is to be an ALTERNATIVE to the other party. Not to be like them. When Dean called other candidates "bush lite" he didnt mean to say they were republicans, he meant to say they are cowering before the president because of the polls, and they shouldnt do that, they should be proud to be Democrats. It was about STRATEGY, not VIEWS.

Becuase people were angry with the Dem leadership, Dean's words resonated powerfully. He began to represent everyone who felt ignored by the party, and to represent even those who had been disillusioned with politics.

For two years, our party has been divided and leaderless. This primary is about what our party will mean. Will we be a party that worries about the swing vote, even to the point of adopting the positions of the other party, or will we be a party that emboldens and represents the base?

In short, we support Dean because he wants to take the Democratic Party back for the base. We will attract swing voters by having a coherent and clear message. If swing voters hear only one message, they will be responsive to that message or if they don't like it, they will ignore politics. The election WILL be about Saddam's capture if we allow it to be, if we are afraid of Bush and allow him to frame the debate. If we can communicate a coherent set of principles that we actually stand for, voters will pay attention. If we advocate a muddled and overly nuanced message, voters will not pay attention. Dean wants a message and an attitude to give people a reason to vote again. Its already happening if you notice all the people who have never been political working on dean's campaign.

One last thing: the average voter respects Bush because he percieves Bush as decisive and genuine. From what he can understand, Bush takes a position and sticks with it. Voters hate nothing more than a politician who they feel is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. They hate overly nuanced and complex positions, which is to an extent unfortunate given the realities of governance. The democrats need to have someone who is as decisive and genuine as Bush supposedly is.

I think voters will perceive Dean as having those qualities (should he get the nomination, of course) Any Democrat who has any positions of her own is instantly painted as liberal by the media. But Dean is a centrist, has always run as a centrist, and will continue to run as a centrist. Voters will understand he is a centrist, becuase Dean has the apparatus to get his message out. (two big issues that make him a centrist, that will register with voters: guns, and balanced budgets) they will see someone who signed a bill they may or may not like, to give civil unions, but they will respect that he wasnt paying attention to polls when he signed it. he opposed a war they may agree with, but they will see it as genuine and not a political calculation. After that, they turn off their politician-BS filter and might actually listen to what he has to say.

What dogged Gore was the perception that he was ungenuine, that he was trying to sell something to the american people, that he was a different person every week. to a lesser extent, I believe that is hurting Kerry too. People see him as trying to hedge his bets on the war (whether that is valid is another story). People hate sales pitches, thats why they despise TV ads, they'd rather see someone who just says what he believes.

I know I've rambled on, but I hope you all voice your thoughts.

[eileen_d]

1. This is one of the best pro-Dean threads I've ever read.

I am embarrassed by people who call Dean supporters "Kool-Aid drinkers" and the like. I may not agree with everything Dean supporters say but I know they aren't fools.

I don't know what else to add except that I think you've made an excellent case for supporting Dean. Thank you. :yourock:

[Eloriel]

46. Thanks, Eileen

And yes, it is a superb post.

What darboy said is also what so many of the pundits aren't getting, and too msny DUers too.

If Dean doesn't get the nomination, I hope at least that this unique development in politics will find some permanency.

Message: Be yourself. Be real. Authenticity and honesty sell. :-)

[LuminousX]

2. Well said

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Take Back America

is what sold me on Dean. We are the sovereigns of our nation, not the President. We must take the responsibility for taking back our country, one voter at a time.

[SahaleArm]

4. It's about the campaign...

At least that was what I was told yesterday - "Once you get to understand our organization, you'll join us". Nothing about issues or candidates, just some vague notion of being part of a campaign. To that end I congratulate Joe Trippi on a job well done.

[CTLawGuy]

10. its the radical idea

that ordinary people can influence government. The Dean camapign allows ordinary people to make a difference though using meetup, online donation, blogs where people can comment, etc. The fact that dean can raise 500,000 dollars from 5 thousand people giving 100 dollars will resonate big time with the politically frustrated, which is a LOT of people, none of whom pay attention to the Democratic primary. There are independent organizations of volunteers for Dean in every state. People will appreciate that here is a candidate who relies on ordinary people for every aspect of his campaign, from letter writing, to tabling, to purchasing TV ads. It is brilliant that he ties fundraising drives to specific actions, such as the purchase of a response to a negative ad. People feel they are needed and in control. We know that Dean has the power to build a huge lead in NH and IA, but neither we, nor Bush know the extent of Dean's power.

[eileen_d]

12. OK, just to play devil's advocate here...

What about the ordinary people who don't particularly care to "influence government" through the different methods you have talked about? I'm talking about people who don't want to be part of a campaign, people who just want to elect someone who knows what they're doing.

[CTLawGuy]

15. they elected Bush, didn't they???

my point is that swing voters don't really care about this. They elected Reagan during the cold war, even though he had no military experience or FP experience. And there were Soviet MISSILES pointed at the US. The Cold War concerned EVERYONE. To most voters, a person can be president if they have at least some governing credibility and they come across as honest and genuine. They saw that in Reagan

Even if they dont like being part of a campaign, people will appreciate that his campaign is fueled by ordinary people and not special interests. To reiterate: the money thing will resonate. No outsider has ever been able to raise so much money from so many people giving so little as Dean has. Dean will be beholden to his donors, the American people.

[DancingBear]

17. "Dean will be beholden to his donors, the American people"

Whoa, hold on there. Dean is a politician - he will be beholden to those who call in the favors. Don't think otherwise, think real-life.

For a minute there it sounded as if you WERE drinking the kool-aid. :)

[CTLawGuy]

24. hehe

the problem with campaign finance is that those who control large amounts of money get undue influence on a candidate, becuase if the candidate spurns the donor, he risks losing the money next time around. If Dean's money comes in small chunks from a diverse group of people, he will not have to worry if he upsets a few on occasion.

[Eloriel]

47. IOW: What favors? There are none to call in.

[janx]

23. Fair question! I've met many of those people. I've handed

them literature and talked to them.

Their reactions have been positive because they're tired of slick D.C. politicians, they like what Dean has to say, and they like that fact that he's not afraid to say it.

[SahaleArm]

16. It wasn't even about that...

I appreciate what Dean has captured in terms of distributed campaigning and fund-raising. But the feeling I get is that the campaign is all that's important, that it gives a feeling of belonging so that's why I should join it. When in fact I could think of a half-dozen issues that would be far more convincing.

[SadEagle]

39. Fair point.

But I think the fundraising method can be a big political boon in the general (the same for Clark, really); after all "we're supported by regular folks, not fat cats" is a pretty darn appealing message when backed w/facts, no?

[Eloriel]

49. Maybe being part of a new community was the main thing

for that person, or the thin s/he was most enthusaed about at this point -- tho undoubtedly they wouldn't BE a supporter were there not considerable policy alignment as well.

Darboy has written a terrific little essay here, one that I agree with wholeheartedly. But I wouldn't have phrased it the same way were I writing about. In fact, I might come at the question from a completely different angle. Each supporter has a different take on the matter.

We ALL came to Dean initially because of this or that policy OR his penchant for speaking up unapologetically plus at least acceptable policies. And then we found out all the rest of it about Dean. Let's face it -- all the candidates have policies; Dean is the only one who can offer what Darboy described.

So to accept this one person's take on it which you apparently found somewhat distasteful is like the blind men and the elephant: just part of the reality which shouldn' be taken for the whole.

[solinvictus]

5. Dean and Bush

Dean is going back after the Southern vote, which has by and large been ignored by the national Democratic party. I know that I'm bringing up regionalism, but the national organization has been so New York/LA oriented, that they've ignored the "flyover" America in which the majority of citizens live. Dean, alone, is trying to regain the support base by grass roots activism in these areas.

[Jerseycoa]

20. Dean Alone

>Dean, alone, is trying to regain the support base by grass roots activism in these areas.

I'm always troubled by "Dean alone" -- it's not true. Our campaign is organizing grassroots all over the country, including the South, and outside the South. Why do you say "Dean alone" when it is not true? We're not as big as you are, but we are not insignificant, either.

:dem:

[solinvictus]

64. General Clark is my second choice

I like him too, and I'd honestly love to see a Dean/Clark ticket in whichever order.

[nomaco-10]

6. Thanks for posting such an eloquent, but yet.....

no-nonsense post as to why many of us support Howard Dean. I think your post resonates because it is just that, a no-nonsense read, just as Govenor Dean is a no-nonsense politician. Dean will be the first to admit, "You may not like what I say, but I'll always tell you where I stand". It's that kind of straightforward, honest approach to politics that has produced one of the largest and most sucessful grassroots campaigns ever in this country.

Yours is the last post I'm reading here tonight at du, so atleast I can leave here for awhile without having read some thread that is filled with infighting and candidate bashing. Thanks.

[opihimoimoi]

7. Dean represents a "Gear Change", Bush is Old School, Dean is NEW School.

Bush System is limping along on 1st Gear. Strong and Slow.

Dean is talking about altogether a new and better approach to things.
A changing of the Gears from 1st to 2nd and beyond..... to the 5 th Gear, Cruise Control.

Bush got Saddam, big Deal. Its only 1 of many things he promised us.

Where is the Balanced Budget? F

Where is the Peace in Afghanistan? F

Where is the Peace in Iraq? F

Where is a decent trade deficiet? F

New Jobs? F

Lost jobs? 3 Million ?? F

Lost Credibility and Respect from our Allies? F

Lied to the American People. F

Concern for the environment? F

This is getting redundent and boring. The thrust of this post is to say the Bush in using his arrogant and unilateral approach, ala John Wayne, has not worked....has not delivered.

Our great Nation is now weakened by the tremendous National Debt of nearly 7 Trillion Dollars....and its growing. This is not fiscal responsibility as the GOP Party claims to be. Far from it.

Dean has a bigger and newer picture of America. A better Biz Plan, a Better long range Plan, one that will address our future as well as our children.

Don't let the Bush guys use this Saddam capture fool us that this proves their system, their approach to doing things is good. While it did get Saddam, was the price worth it? Not only in terms of casualties and energy resources, but in Respect and Credibility?

I don't think so, we could have done far better.

[ithacan]

8. Dean is seriously being underestimated

by both the DLC and the Bushies. And you've explained really well why that is so. And also why he is going to win in 2004.

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. Very well stated

...and pretty much the exact reasons that I am supporting Dean.

[DancingBear]

11. I must disagree here with the premise

That premise being that his people "get it." I'm not a Dean supporter (but I will certainly vote for him should he get the nod), and I am afraid that you have (inadvertently, perhaps) crystallized those reasons.

1) Winning candidates NEVER run to "take back the base." The base, while fundamental to both parties, is always left or right of the given candidate. Successful candidates find a position acceptable to the base AND to the general public (at least the portion paying attention), then attempt to "stretch" to appeal to the swing element, while retaining the base. Your premise that you will attract swing voters with "a coherent and clear message" assumes your message will not be trumped by the other side. I fear Dean has made his bed as an "anti-war" candidate (his attempt to galvanize what he considers his base) - this stand does not exist in a vacuum. While many Dean people scoff at this notion that he is "anti-war", perception is everything. I fear he can be molded into this shape far too easily, and has no way out.

2) You made mention of people being angry w/Dem leadership. True enough. This being said, does this not make Dean candidate of the "angry voter", a label that most Dean supporters cringe at? Remember, perception is everything.

3) Points 1) and 2) are points those of us who prefer other candidates tend to harp on, I think due to our age and (perhaps) political "seasoning." I see many parallels with other "outsider" campaigns that I have witnessed, and I will tiptoe gingerly here when I say that I tend to see a "wow, neato!" factor in the Dean campaign that I've seen before. Not making McGovern comparisons here, but that was my first one, and I had enough "wow-neato" in me for the whole East Coast. We know how that one turned out - and I remember I was shocked that George didn't win!

There - thoughts voiced.

[BertrandL]

18. I agree, but...

Dean is not a whacko liberal. If anything, he is right of the average, engaged Democrat. I personally prefer Kerry. But Dean has a legitimate chance. He has somehow gathered the base, energized the Democrats, and is still pro-second-amendment, fiscally conservative, white & male.

The McGovern parallel is interesting. With that election, you had a President that was passionately hated or loved. You had a lot of Democrats who felt let down by their party. I might buy this comparison.

But remember, Dean is not left-wing. He has, I believe, swing voter appeal.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. Was McGovern a left wing whacko?

I basically agree with your post. I'm a Clark supporter who also likes Dean and would vote for him if Clark doesn't get the nomination. I don't think Dean is a left wing whacko, either and I agree with many of his positions. Dean's main problem concerns his image and perception, as he comes off as a very smug person. I don't really think McGovern was that extremist, however. He was passionately against the war in Vietnam. However, McGovern was a war hero himself from World War II. The Republicans were able to portray him as an extreme leftist, the way they will go after Dean for his anti-war stance.

[CTLawGuy]

19. thanks for the thoughts

now my response :-)

"Winning candidates NEVER run to "take back the base." "

People always assume the base will vote reliably. That is wrong. If I support X, but both candidates support Y, whom should I vote for? Remember, a good chunk of our base voted for Nader in 2000, especially 90,000 people in Florida. They did so, because on issues important to them, Bush and Gore appeared to be the same. (probably because Gore had a hard time articulating himself) If we had that base fully behind us, we would have won easily. it is too easy not to vote in this country to assume that anyone will vote period, not to mention for someone in particular. You can say, "I'm too busy", "my vote doesn't matter", " I have no time" "I can't get off work".

Every election, campaigns have GOTV. (Get Out The Vote) During this process the campaigns badger their supporters until they actually go to the polls. Its a HUGE and very crucial operation. ALL campaign activity (at least in Field) is geared toward facilitating this program. This program is important because of the difficulty and uncertainty of voter turnout. ABB exists on DU, but not in the real world. In the real world, Bush vs. Bush lite = stay home, for many in the base.

"Your premise that you will attract swing voters with "a coherent and clear message" assumes your message will not be trumped by the other side."

that is the challenge. that is why we have a general election campaign. It is uncertain whether that will happen to our message, but one thing I know for sure, a sloppy and incoherent message will ALWAYS be trumped by the other side.


"You made mention of people being angry w/Dem leadership. True enough. This being said, does this not make Dean candidate of the "angry voter", a label that most Dean supporters cringe at?"

Not necessarily. People are angry with the Dem leadership, but that anger does not consume them. We do not hate the party, we only want it to be better.

"I see many parallels with other "outsider" campaigns that I have witnessed, and I will tiptoe gingerly here when I say that I tend to see a "wow, neato!" factor in the Dean campaign that I've seen before."

Outsider campaigns like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton?

[slinkerwink]

13. amazing post.....

can't be more proud of a Dean supporter! :yourock:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. That's not the Dean I see on TV

In front of his crowds, Dean sounds great. He doesn't come across that way on TV or in the debates. He was timid as hell during the last one.

You can talk about all of these wonderful feelings and great fighting spirit that Dean has, but how come everyone else doesn't see it?

[CTLawGuy]

22. some people refuse to see it because they are so afraid...

of another McGovern.

Remember, in debates he is up with other Democrats, whom he does not see as the enemy. He loves our party, but is not afraid to take it to task when it does something wrong. On the other hand, he is not there to lambast other democrats at every turn.

As to why not everyone sees it, its becuase no politician is universally popular, usually a sign of a functioning democracy. Not everyone will mesh with Dean for whatever reason, and you have to expect that.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

28. I think his appeal is greatly exaggerated

I've seen him live and on TV and video a lot. I just don't see it. Good luck.

[liberalmike27]

36. Pundits Foul Water

People don't see that in Dean because they are listening to the pundits, who are trying to foul Dean's chances. Listen with your heart, and you will feel the sincerity. He's got a great record in Vermont too.

The establishment has worked a long time on getting poor voters to not vote. Industry and the wealthy have been paying off Democrats for a good while too, to act just like Republicans. They are all represented in the media, which is entirely a wealthy biased enterprise financed by fatcats. They are scared, as he is getting his money from real folks, who can't buy a $2000 a plate dinner because they need it for car-repairs, rent, and utilities. But we can send him $25, or $50 dollars, and have been. We hope he doesn't let us down.

[Hoppin_Mad]

65. Great post - thanks !

[blm]

25. If Dean is running to take the party back for the base, then what was his

reason for running when he first started...you know...back when he was still annoying the base because he was so chummy with the GOP and fashioned himself as a compromising centrist?

What made him run in the first place? His principles of governance as a compromising centrist? Does a person CHANGE their reason for running for president? Does an honest person change longheld principles?

[CTLawGuy]

29. you can be a centrist and still appeal to the base

Dean ran because the Bush adminstration sold snake oil to the American people. Bush is not a centrist, he is a radical. Dean has never lied about being a centrist. The media pins labels on him because that is their perrogative.

A centrist can appeal to the base if that centrist has principles opposed to the radical candidate (bush). Most people, even liberals, are fine with Dean's centrism, but they like him because he will OPPOSE bush's radicalism with clear centrist philosophies which do not appear to be based on political calculation.


Dean supporters don't care that Dean was a centrist, that he fought liberals in Vermont, they don't care that he gave tax breaks to promote business in Vermont. they don't care that he spoke at the CATO institute. they care that he is not afraid to oppose the Bush administation and has clear positions. The base is not necessarily the most left, the base is the most DEMOCRATIC, the most partisan.

[blm]

30. You don't understand what I said.

Dean did not start out campaigning to bring the party back to the base. In fact, he had made plans to run in 1997. He remained pretty conservative throughout his time as governor, even pushing deregulation of electricity, which is, imo, a very BFEE goal.

Study his appearances from 2000 throughout 2002 and you get a picture of a man running to capture the center. So, what was his motivating factor to run back at that time? He wasn't appealing to the base, that's for sure.

It wasn't till the antiwar movement grew that he saw a new way to gain traction.

[CTLawGuy]

31. then, please enlighten me on how he "started out running"

w/links.

Thanks :-)

[blm]

32. Here ya go.

You already know he supported the same provisions in Biden-Lugar he attackes the others for on IWR, so I won't rehash that one.


http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html


Dean raises money from energy sources

February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.

>>>>>>>
“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition.
A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
>>>>>>>


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.


Is Howard Dean for Real? Well, Not Entirely, by Morton M. Kondracke, Roll Call, 1/27/03, (here)
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean ought to do well in the Iowa Democratic caucuses — unless the anti-war folks out there find out where he really stands on Iraq.
Login | Subscribe to Rollcall.com     "The Newspaper of Capital Hill Since 1955"

http://www.sover.net/~auc/gov.htm

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Editorial/Article/54174.html

March 2002
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/2794665.htm
Dean, a medical doctor, describes himself as "a bit unusual" for a Democrat. For one thing, "I'm very conservative about money," he said. Also, he pointed out, he has been endorsed by the National Rifle Association.

"I have trouble with the liberal wing of my own party," Dean said.

>>>RB...this link below is broken, but Yglesias was a Dean supporter until the point he wrote this. Not sure where he stands right now.

So I'm back from a week at Howard Dean's office and let me tell you, it is cold in Vermont. Big time. It makes Boston look like Maui. On a more serious note, however, I became quite dissilusioned when it became clear that Dean has decided to abandon his history of support for free trade and become a protectionist. I spent a lot of time transcribing Dean's off-the-kuff remarks so they could be worked-up into a written address and while it looked at first like he was just trying to fudge (trade hurts you in the primary) it became clear that over the past few weeks he's been moving toward a full-scale flip-flop complete with a ginned-up non-protectionist rationalization for protectionism.

http://www.matthewyglesias.com/archives/001873.html



MR. RUSSERT: You heard Mr. Armey’s objection to the president’s TIPS Program, where cable
       installers, utility workers would observe what’s going on and report anything suspicious to the police.
       Do you support the president?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I tend to support the president, although I have some reservations about this one as well.
       All I’ve seen is what’s been on television, and I have something in me that is bothered by the notion that
       Americans are going to be spying on each other. So if the president is simply asking people to be alert,
       I think that’s fine. If the president really is encouraging Americans to spy on each other, I have a
       problem with that.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: You did say after the 11th that the United States may be prepared to have to sacrifice
       some personal liberties and civil liberties in order to fight the war on terrorism.
       
       GOV. DEAN: We already are. I think when I got on the airplane to come down here, it took me about
       25 minutes longer than it would have a year ago. And those are the kinds of liberties that we are going
       to be sacrificing and there may be some other ones.

"Tends to support president" on TIPS??????????????? WTF??? This was BEFORE he shifted left. He never really answers the questions directly if you notice and that has people reading him wrong. Straight shooter, my ass.
       

[CTLawGuy]

33. nothing shocking in any of these

Dean suppported BL. I, and everyone else, knew that months ago.
Dean supported disarming Saddam, so did I. and im sure a lot of anti-war people would not want Saddam to have WMDs. BL is distinct from IWR, that is why Bush pushed for IWR. It only allows Bush to attack Iraq to get rid of WMDs, NOT FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE. If bush took over the country, it would have been illegal under BL. IWR was vague enough to let Bush legally do anything.

Dean is a centrist, we all know that. If he raised his first few dollars from energy companies, so what? When you're starting out, you gotta get money where you can. At least Dean decided to wean himself off energy money.

Secondly, Dean has always said he supported the war in Afghanistan. We all know it. thats probably why he didnt criticize the pesident on it. Afghanistan, though not perfect, is not HALF the atrocity iraq was.

Thridly, as a centrist, its not surprising he has trouble with liberals sometimes, that what the nature of being centrist is. We all know he is conservative about money, and all know about his gun record and NRA grade.

Fourthly, Dean supports fair trade, which is essentially free trade but with protections. he believes free trade is good but workers in other countries should be protected by our trade agreements.

Fifthly, saying "I tend to support the president" does not necessarily mean bush. And Dean spoke against americans spying on each other. As to the "lose civil liberties" non-issue. As an example Dean said it took 25 more minutres to get on the plane. He is obviously referring to sacrificing our "right" to convenient passage through security.

[blm]

52. But, that's his style. He always puts a condition on it.

Like when Gwen Ifill was trying to nail him down on his Iraq position and he repeated the word unilateral 6 times in one reply. Well, the action had already moved past the unilateral stage to multilateral which Dean had in the past said he would support. But, he clung to the word unilateral to emphasize his antiwar stance which was serving him well at the time.

[TLM]

58. Yeah BLM because there is always some asshole...

looking to take half a sentence from Dean and twist it all out of shape so they can lie about what he said... so Dean is careful in statements to include those conditions to keep folks from lying about his statemetns without it being obvious what they are doing.

As I'm sure you know.

Just look at some of the quotes you Dean bashers toss around... like that one on the 60 day limit before action in Iraq, where folks keep leaving out that Dean said in the line before that he did not think Bush had made the case for war.

[Nazgul35]

43. funny..which party deregulated Cali's industry?

Being for deregulation before the fact is certainly no reason to not learn from you mistakes...

And to answer your earlier question...Dean wanted to put forward a voice calling for fiscal conservatism...

But events changed, we were attacked, we attacked back...and unlike some other dems, Dean stood against the war when polls were showing 80%+ approval...

If he really was an opportunist that you claim he was, he would have hoped on the bandwagon along with your candidate...

By the way...why is it again that Kerry voted No to invade Iraq in 1991, after they invaded a soveriegn country and where at the height of their power...but voted yes in 2002 when they were no threat to anyone and were obviously to anyone paying half attention nothing more than the new product line for the Bush admin?

what changed? what is not a flip-flop about this? It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that in 1991 the vote was held after the general election and in 2002 before....could it?

[blm]

53. It was Wilson who pushed it with some Democrats

and that doesn't excuse Wilson and all the GOPers who pushed it, does it?

btw...anyone familar with our dealings with Iraq would know that since the first Iraq war we learned in the Iraqgate scandal that Poppy Bush was supplying Saddam with money, arms, and chemical and bioweapons. So we knew it was an issue to remove Saddam and his weapons. Kerry was with Clinton on that in 98 and remained steadfast in that regard thru today. In fact, Kerry wanted DIPLOMACY to be the key to bringing back weapons inspections and turning Saddam out of office. Bush failed in that regard and relied on use of force, instead.

[Eloriel]

50. You're assigning motives, based on your cynical guess,

or worse, when in fact he has told us that, indeed, the campaign DID change him. See his June 23 speech, for one example. He actually listened to voters, and responded to their pent-up demand for something far more than just different policies.

[Scott Lee]

38. An honest and intelligent person is not afraid of change.

I will keep repeating this to you until you get it.

Dean gets it.

[onecitizen]

26. I was ready to jump ugly on ya.........

but wow, great post!

[joefree1]

27. Great post. Let 'em underestimate us!

Dean Rocks The House of Blues
7:00 pm ~ 10:00 pm
House of Blues
8430 Sunset Blvd.
West Hollywood, CA 90069
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=evite_la1215
If you're going check in here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=4536
(I'll post pics on Tuesday)

[CTLawGuy]

34. kick

NT

[maggrwaggr]

35. very well put

:kick:

Dean certainly does "get it".

He keeps saying exactly what I want a candidate, or any democratic leader, to say.

None of the ruling Dumbocrats are doing that.

And you're right about Kerry. I feel like he's your basic slippery, trying-to-have-it-both-ways politician. That's not a leader, that's a follower.

[farmbo]

37. Yep...his support is a mile wide...and a mile deep!

Olde Democrats, running formulaic campaigns, relying on focus group-tested, beltway- driven talking points, will never understand Dean's true alure, and the depth of his support.

Great post!

[slinkerwink]

40. kick

[Kanola]

41. Thank you, great post!

As a Dean supporter, I agree with you whole heartedly!

[ozone_man]

42. You can ramble on like that some more.

All very good stuff. I would ramble on a bit too, but time to turn in.

[Lisa0825]

44. thank you, darboy. excellent post!

[IronLionZion]

45. Rally the base enough and expand it

and we can beat Bush without any kind of bullshit about Dean being soft on Defense or too far left. That far left one always cracks me up.

[WillyT]

48. Great Post darboy, And Well Said !!!

:thumbsup::hippie::thumbsup:

[hedda_foil]

51. I'm gonna rephrase as clearly as possible for the Dean-impaired.

It's the Democracy, stupid!

That's what Dean is fighting for. That's why his supporters are so passionate that we're compared by some looking in from other campaigns as "Kool-Aide" drinkers. That's why we're sometimes compared to a cult.

Well you know what? In one way we are a cult. We worship at the fount of Democracy and we've found a candidate who understands at a gut level just how close we are to losing our birthright. So damn straight we're true believers. We're true believers in Democracy and so is Howard Dean. It's not about being liberal or conservative any more ... it's about saving America because we're only gonna get this one chance.

[blm]

54. We don't buy that his motivation to run was to give the party back to the

base and nothing in his record shows that to be the case. In fact he was running first with feet planted firmly in the center with little regard for the base in his early appearances in 2001 and 2002.

[mzmolly]

56. Dean has mass appeal, which is why he's the front runner.

Left, and Center... were all represented.

[texas is the reason]

55. brilliant post, darboy!!

this should be required reading for some of the rabid clarkies among us.dean is our most electable candidate, because he knows WTF he is doing, and trippi is a genius. this eletion will be a chessmatch, and political skill will far outweigh many other attributes (yes, including national defense) in the battle against karl rove's 200 million dollar budget.

[mzmolly]

57. Right on !

:toast:

[realFedUp]

59. A good read

thanks for your thoughts on Dean.

[nomaco-10]

60. I'm so glad this is up on the first page again.....

I read it last night and meant to bookmark it. I thought about this post several times today and was just about to go looking for it. Thanks again darboy for a great post.

[quaker bill]

61. Taking Back the Country takes more the right set of policies

What Dean gets is that being authentic is not about having the best policy papers, it is not a product of think tanks and polling.

It is actually standing up for what you believe to be true even when that involves risk. Packaged and handled candidates stick to the formula and "stay on message", they take no risks. Dean greets the news of the time and the day and speaks his mind on the matter.

Risk adverse behavior earned us 2000, 2002, approval of IWR, and the Bush* economic agenda. Risk adverse behavior will lose us 2004.

Dean has shown the ability to take retail politics national. Organization is the only chance to win 2004. Dean already has more people working for him here than Gore did on election day 2000. This is the answer, the only answer, to Bush*/Rove.

[RetroLounge]

62. Right on!

Now here is a post that needs to be kicked back to the top!

Nice job, darboy, you articulated my thoughts better than I could have.

Rock on!

[edzontar]

63. Thank you for this thoughtful, POSITIVE post.

Go Dean.