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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:20 PM
Original message
Kerry on Saudi Arabia, Bush and Bin Laden family post 9-11 flight
Winning War on Terror Requires Reconsideration of Saudi Alliance
America cannot afford to hold its nose and play nice with a country whose actions often speak louder than its words when it comes to fighting terrorism. It's time to put the American-Saudi relationship on a frank and balanced basis. Not surprisingly, the Saudi-friendly Bush administration has failed to get this point.

Saudi Arabia's role in financing terrorism is well-documented. A report published by the Council on Foreign Relations tells us that "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for Al Qaeda. And for years, Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem."

Perhaps even more disturbing is the allegation that Al Qaeda continued to receive money from inside Saudi Arabia long after the September 11 attacks. According to the council's report, "some, whose donations go to Al Qaeda, know full well the terrorist purposes to which their money will be put." The Saudi government now claims to be cracking down on terrorist financing, but its actions have not yet matched its words.

One would think that an American president who threatens the world by announcing "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" would be particularly troubled by the actions of the Saudi regime. But then one would be underestimating the hypocrisy that has become the hallmark of the Bush administration.
>>>>>>>

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.12.12/oped1.html
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Poor Cynthia McKinney...
She was stabbed in the back by her own party for raising just these kind of questions.

When will those who smeared her apologize? It's not her fault she didn't have the heart to have her father killed before the primary.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, why the hell do you think media won't cover Kerry
or they talk about the horserace and Dean all the time for MONTHS? They gave Dean a press plane last JUNE. Think about it. That's right after Rand Beers left his National Security office and Joe Wilson was already aligning with Kerry. You think that Wilson column pointing to bad intel happened in a vacuum?

BUSH NEEDS THESE MEN SILENCED

John Kerry assembled a team to confront Bush on the issues Rove wants to take to the American people in 2004. National security and the fear of terrorism. No doubt, the last thing Rove needs are experts in those areas speaking out during the general election against Bush and for the Democratic opponent.

Gary Hart, knows more about national security and antiterrorism measures than any national figure. He is the author of the Hart-Rudman report which was delivered to Bush in Jan. 2001 after a 2 1/2 year study commissioned by Clinton. The report wasn't dealt with at all prior to 9-11.

Rand Beers, former National Security Official, knows the inner workings of the Bush team's post 9-11 efforts, of which he observed mostly inertia and incompetence.

Max Cleland, 9-11 commission, knows the Bush team is trying to pull a fast one on the American people by covering up crucial information of dealings that led to 9-11. Has been speaking out to groups across the country, and swinging the AWOLSTICK as a bonus

Gen. William Perry, Clinton's expert on nuclear arms proliferation and N. Korea, knows Bush's failures on the serious Korea issue and his incompetence in dealing with its threat.

Joe Wilson, the man who knows TOO much. Exposed Cheney's office as the source for cooked intelligence reports on Iraq. Also alerted public to treasonous acts by White House in exposing his wife, an undercover CIA agent. Many in intel community aligning with Wilson and his wife against the WH.

The media is loathe to give these men the airtime at this point because they are too damaging to Bush on his perceived strengths. They can afford to ignore them and the substance of their case against Bush because they are selling the American people the "process" of the primary horserace as entertainment. If Kerry were the nominee, the media would have no choice but to feature his spokespeople on the various issues.

Kerry assembled a team to TAKE BUSH DOWN, while some others assembled a team to take Kerry down. Democrats need to take this into consideration. BushInc. NEEDS these men and their message muted.


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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. don't forget kucinich
the victims family members, BYRD, and plenty more where that came from.

peace
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. I never heard the media gave Dean a press plane last June
Do you have any more info on that? I would like to peruse it. Thanks for your help.

Don

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Don't hold your breath....


The info is pretty cut and dired... Dean got that press plane because he was going all over the country and traveling way more than any of the others... and he had more coverage.

As i said to BLM over and over again... any other candidate could get that level of coverage if they had half a million people supporting the, writing letters and sending faxes to the media.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Chris Matthews had announced it on Hardball at the time it happened.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 04:07 PM by blm
It was a shock to me and posted it here at the time.

I think it also has to do with this resolution that Kerry said he'd draft against the FCC changes:

http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=6976

USA: FCC Rule Fight Continues in Congress

Opponents of Ownership Consolidation Also Plan Legal Strategy

ByFrank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
June 4, 2003

Several lawmakers and advocacy groups vowed yesterday to fight in the courts and on Capitol Hill to overturn the Federal Communications Commission's new media ownership rules, saying they give big newspapers and broadcasters too much influence over public opinion and hurt smaller media companies.

On Monday, the FCC voted 3 to 2 along party lines to relax or eliminate some ownership restrictions, such as a rule barring media companies from owning television stations in markets where they publish daily newspapers. The commission's three Republicans, led by Chairman Michael K. Powell, voted for the changes, while the two Democrats dissented.

Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) said he would file a "resolution of disapproval" to block what he called the "wrongheaded vote." Such a resolution can overturn rules set by regulatory agencies and requires a simple majority of each house of Congress to pass. In March 2001, a resolution of disapproval was used to strike down an ergonomics standard set by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

Even if the resolution were to pass both Republican-majority houses, it would require President Bush's signature.

Kerry, a presidential candidate and ranking member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, said Monday's rule changes favor big media companies at the expense of small ones.
>>>>>>>

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. BLM... why then does Kerry spend almost all of his media time

bashing Dean, instead of exposing this stuff? You say he is building this team to attack Bush, yet Dean seems to be his only target.

As ususal Kerry's actions show that his words mean absolutly dick.

Is Kerry only going to take down the BFEE if he gets the nomination? Is that his game? We have to put him in office before he'll do anything about this? Why has he not acted on this within the senate?






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jmags Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. I couldn't agree more with you
While Dean has the fight in him, he just cannot live to the intelligence and eloquence Kerry brings in discussing these issues - not to mention the qualifications of those on Kerry's campaign staff.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Thanks....These men MUST make the case against Bush in this election.
Shame on all those seeking to silence them for their own partisan gain.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. US News & World Report has a lengthy article about the Saudi
ties to charities that send funding to terriorist organizations in the current issue. It's worth the read.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. good for Kerry! Awesome!
It's about time someone starts asking hard questions about 911 and Bush's Saudi/Binladen connections.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kerry would investigate 9-11 and sink the BFEE permanently.
Kerry knows the Who, What, How, Why, When, Where, etc. of the Bush Organized Crime Family. Can you imagine having an activist attorney general who's job it was included prosecuting the traitors of the BFEE? Sen. Kerry does. He's been working toward it since November 22, 1963. Seeing a return to lawful government also is why Amb. Joe Wilson backs Kerry. Wilson, like Kerry and most of DU, wants to see Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. I can imagine!
An activist attorney general who knows the Bush mob inside out. Which is why I think Pres. Dean should nominate John Kerry for that post.

Now if Kerry were to actually devote more time to exposing Bush than to attacking Dean, and if he were to stop the lame excuses and actually apologize for his Iraq war vote...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Don't blame Sen. Kerry if the media only cover the horse race...
John Kerry's been on Bush's case. Here's what JK said about Bush and the environment:

"Unfortunately, the reality of this 'national picture' is bleak. It includes: dirtier air because the Bush Administration has relaxed the laws governing polluting power plants; unhealthy drinking water because the Bush Administration has gutted important provisions in the Clean Water Act; and more dangerous toxic waste sites in our communities because the Bush Administration refuses to make polluters pay to clean them up.What good does it do us when the person in the White House only listens to corporate polluters and big money instead of protecting human health and the environment? If the Bush Administration wouldn't even allow the draft report to be released without first omitting important, science-based findings on climate change, I'm at a loss to understand how any of the findings in this report will ever be translated into meaningful action."(Press Release, 6/23/03)
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm willing to give credit
where it is due (I am not a Kerry supporter). This is interesting stuff >>This president refuses to come clean on his administration's relationship with the Saudi royal family. Shortly after the September 11 attacks, when airplanes were still grounded, the White House allowed a Saudi charter flight to round up members of the bin Laden family and leave the country without time for an investigation.
<<
I still mention this fact to people and NO ONE has ever heard it. I know, I know, but can you all picture the outrage if this happened under Presidet Gore. I do have a question though, why despite knowing probably more about the evil of this regime than we do, does Kerry continue to support the overall war in Iraq and his vote for it. Simply stating that he was lied to by a very evil and untrustworthy pResident would go far to repair the damage that vote has caused him.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Kerry supported the goal of removing Saddam
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 02:09 PM by blm
but only using use of force after exhausting diplomatic remedies first. That's why he has been very critical of Bush's actions and his continuing occupation. Kerry wants the UN to have greater powers with the US acting under its direction to remove the sense of US occupation.


Kerry does have the goods on BushInc. He needs the attention of the American people before he can make the greater case. If you let it out only in pieces you risk people not understanding...this is NOT soundbite stuff.

He did this with BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning. Noone tainted Reagan and Bush's legacies more than John Kerry. Trust him again. He can do this.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. If that is true about Kerry and the UN now, then why did he attack Dean


back in FEb for wanting the UN behind actions in IRaq?

Guess Kerry says whatever he thinks will help him that day.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/25/opinion/lynch...

Kerry's campaign manager, Jim Jordan, snapped at Dean's insistence on getting U.N. backing (a position supported by three-quarters of Democrats and 53 percent of Independents). "Gov. Dean, in effect, seems to be giving the U.N. veto power over national security decisions of the United States. That's an extraordinary proposition, one never endorsed by any U.S. president or serious candidate for the presidency," he told the Associated Press' Ron Fournier.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Not the same at all.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 04:41 PM by blm
Do you even understand what the issue was in that exchange?

The issue was that Dean had said he would never go into a war WITHOUT the UN. Well, no president or candidate had EVER set that standard. So Dean was questioned if he was setting a precedent. He backed off and later said that he would of course use force to defend US interest even without the UN. That's it. Was he setting precedent or not, and it turns out he was NOT. Jordan did Dean a favor by letting him clarify his stance. The GOP will use his mistaken words against Dean every chance they can. You'll see.

Get your facts straight.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. That was fired Jim Jordan's opinion, not JKs
No wonder Jordan was shown the door...
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks and good job by John Kerry
They all need to keep talking about this subject. America deserves to know the answers to these questions.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. We need Kerry as President
"As president, I will not stand by and allow America to be held hostage by Saudi oil. We can unleash the spirit of American ingenuity to meet this challenge. I have a plan to reduce America's dependence on oil..."

"....this president has been unable and unwilling to stand up to the Saudi regime and make this happen. It is time that America creates a real partnership with Saudi Arabia a genuine partnership against terrorism."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. That's called Vision.
We haven't had it in a President since WJ Clinton. And his mind was filled, too often, with other matters.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Q: Who can blow the lid off U.S. history's most secretive administration?
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 03:44 PM by oasis
A: John Kerry (when he becomes president)
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. if he can do it, he should do it now
it's criminal of him to wait.

If he knows, out with it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Good for him! Let's hope it gets picked up by the press!
He needs to do more of this.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. Sen. Kerry knows more than most...
... and when he doesn't know, he's smart enough to find someone he can trust who does.

:kick:
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bob Graham said the blacked out part of the 911 documents are damning
to the Saudis and the Bushs. Id love to see what that said. Before the election. Im sure this would put a kink in their strong on terror bullshat.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. the $1trillion elephant in the closet is saudi investment in US economy
what happens to the US economy if the saudis withdraw their money from the US?

this is a serious matter and one which is rarely discussed when talks turn to how bad the saudis are.

any discussion on how to deal with the issue of saudi support for terrorism has to take account of this fact and how the US will sustain its lifestyle if the saudis turn off their oil spigot.

there is no easy way out of this situation.

logically one would think that the first thing is to become energy independent. but we don't want to drill in ANWAR (which delieers about a month's worth of US energy demands anyway).

so plan B is what?

the government has not supported a strong alternative energy program, nuclear power is an anathema to many people, coal pollutes the air ans water, natural gas can't cover the all the oil we would lose, solar, wind, tidal power are not about to replace oil, and fusion power, as ever, is always 20 years away.

there is no politician alive who would survive antagonizing the saudis to the point where they tell us to shove it. the US would be a basket case.

we know it, the saudis know it and that is why we turn a blind eye to what they have done.

we are junkies whose dealer invests in our company where we need the fix to keep working, and the dealer makes money off of his investment too.

only money investments and national efforts in new energy resources at the levels of the manhatten project or moon landing will break this cycle, and neither the american people or the people in government have the will to do it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Kerry: Winning War on Terror Requires Reconsideration of Saudi Alliance
Winning War on Terror Requires Reconsideration of Saudi Alliance

By John Kerry

More than a year after the September 11 terrorist attacks, the Saudi interior minister, Prince Nayef, told an Arab media outlet that he thought "the Jews" were responsible for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

When a senior member of the Saudi ruling family its top law enforcement officer responsible for tracking down terrorists promotes wild, antisemitic conspiracy theories to explain away the September 11 attacks, it is time for America to look seriously at our relationship with Saudi Arabia and its reliability as an ally against terrorism.

The war on terrorism requires unprecedented cooperation and diplomacy among the global community especially among countries in the Middle East. But America cannot afford to hold its nose and play nice with a country whose actions often speak louder than its words when it comes to fighting terrorism. It's time to put the American-Saudi relationship on a frank and balanced basis. Not surprisingly, the Saudi-friendly Bush administration has failed to get this point.

Saudi Arabia's role in financing terrorism is well-documented. A report published by the Council on Foreign Relations tells us that "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for Al Qaeda. And for years, Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem."

CONTINUED...

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.12.12/oped1.html

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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. this is what he said and its wishful thinking or pure BS
this is from your link on Kerry's policy initative:

"I have a plan to reduce America's dependence on oil by 2 million barrels a day about the same amount we import from the Persian Gulf through investment in clean energy technologies that will increase efficiency and allow us to capitalize on domestic and renewable sources of energy. No foreign government can embargo this type of energy and no terrorist can seize control of it.


But that is only 10% of US daily consumption, of oil. it does not refer to total US energy consumption, which includes coal, nuclear and natural gas. there is no mention listed on the differentiation between reducing consumption via increased efficiencies versus increasing alternative energy sources to acheive that target of 2M barrels/day, and the numbers Kerry is using are the very best case scenarios if all his programs are initiated, and IF they pass congressional muster.

the facts are these:

"The United States consumed 19.7 million barrels of oil per day in 2000, more than half of which (10.4 million barrels per day net) came from imports. Imports from the Persian Gulf in 2000 were 2.5 million barrels per day, which amounts to 12.6% of U.S. consumption."

from:
http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw191.shtml


"Every day and every year we delay, America will continue to pay a high price for our over-reliance on foreign oil. We spend $20 billion annually on oil imports from the Persian Gulf. Instead of indefinitely sending that money to the Middle East, we should launch an energy strategy to invest in the Midwest and in the rest of America, generating new jobs and new technologies here at home. My energy plan will create 500,000 new jobs, produce 20% of American energy from renewable fuels by 2020, and finally end America's dependence on foreign oil in 10 years."

note that Kerry calls on ending US "dependence on foreign oil"

just what the hell does that mean? does it mean NO imports? does it means within 10 years the US will replace the 10.4 million barrels/day (and certainly more by 2014 considering economic growth predictions) of imported oil with energy via other sources, conservation, or just what?

he mentions that he wants 20% of US energy needs to come from renewable domestic fuel sources in 16 years, which logically requires that the other 80% comes from non-renewable domestic sources, since he already stated that according to his plan we wont need foreign oil/fuel sources 6 years before that. but he does not mention how this is to be done, nor what trade-offs should be expected to occur. is he referring to increased use of nuclear power with it concommitent dangers and waste problems, shale oil with its own pollution problems, perhaps actually drill ANWAR? how much money will be invested in solar, tidal, wind, and fusion research and what is the anticipated rate of return and a time line for each area of study.

his statment is mindless gobbledegoope, full of glittering generalities which would not pass muster at a local savings and loan for a new addition to a house.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. CA 13% renewables
California is already doing very well in renewables. The plan is very feasible and is what we have to do.

What's the alternative?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. Now that they've bagged Saddam. Our message is the war on terror.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Kerry busted BCCI, which links Bush to bin Laden...
... and the Union Bank of Switzerland to HARKEN and one starts to understand how Terror Inc became a global operation, a division of the BFEE. John Kerry is the only candidate who knows who's who and what's what in the BFEE and will do whatever needs to be done to bring down the House of Bush. Now that I think of it, JK has already talked about Regime Change USA.

Those interested in learning how BCCI connects W to bin Laden and 9-11, please check out:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Mahfouz.html





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