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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 06:55 AM
Original message
Anyone receive John Kerry's media alert?
It talks about Dean supporting the war resolution and that he will be on Fox news to discuss it. There's a line about Gore supporting the wrong Dean.

Anyone else feel this is wrong headed? This sort of thing should come from the right wing, not a dem. What does a dem gain by going on right wing fox news and tearing down another democratic candidate? I can't imagine that fox viewers will vote for Kerry.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree... this is wrong of Kerry to do.
AND he's going to discuss it on FauxNews??? That's utterly shameful!!
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Kerry NOT on Faux News. Carl Cameron did a segment called Perception vs.
Reality of the 2004 Campaign Trail. Cameron used footage from John Kerry's visit to an elementary school yesterday when, during a question and answer period, Kerry talked about Howard Dean's judgement on the war.

"I think the great missing story of this campaign is in fact the truth about Howard Dean's statements about the war,' Kerry said...Dean later said he supported the Biden-Lugar resolution and acknowledged that Bush could have used it to go to war without a vote from Congress."

Carl Cameron's piece was not particularly flattering to either Kerry or Dean, as you can imagine. I suggest you watch the video segment on johnkerry.com before you jump to any conclusions.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I was reacting to the original posters info about a Faux appearance...
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 09:07 AM by alg0912
Believe me, I'm very glad to hear Senator Kerry isn't going to bash a fellow Democrat on FauxNews. Like I said, to do so would be shameful...
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, this statement should come from a Dem
Dean has run as *the* antiwar candidate. He raised the issue. Kerry has a right to respond.

The primaries haven't even taken place.

And the RW is trying to decapitate people based on their antiwar stances. Kerry is not mouthing a RW talking point.
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have a feeling that this could turn into the other thread we had today
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 07:01 AM by La_Serpiente
I am referring to this one

Dial-up BEWARE!!!

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. It appears to be related.
Yep.
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Has no one here ever witnessed the party nomination fight
before? My God, this is how the pack is whittled down for the fight for the Presidency.
Bush chewed up and spit out his Republican challengers in the run-up to the 2000 election.
Gore took one hell of a beating from Democrat challengers in his first run at the Presidency and lost the nomination.

If you think this in-fighting is bad, wait until the full fury of the Right-Wing machine takes on whomever wins the Nomination of the Democratic Party. The nomination in-fighting will look like a slumber party in comparison.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Kerry shouldn't HAVE to do this. The media should have MONTHS ago.
When Dean first started attacking the other candidates for their support of IWR so vociferously last January, the media should have examined his attacks, if not right away, at least when he started attracting so much support for those attacks.

Dean attacked them and gained so much while at the same time he supported the key provision that would put us into war on Bush's determination of need. His rhetoric against them was deceptive and insulting to his audience who he asssumed he could fool since hardly anyone picked up on his earlier support for Biden-Lugar.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. ACLU's take on Biden-Lugar
http://archive.aclu.org/news/2002/n100202a.html

Highlights:
"Specifically, the Biden-Lugar compromise:

Clearly identifies the enemy. The proposed resolution closes the door to regional adventures in the Middle East. Under the proposed compromise, the President would have to seek additional Congressional authorization if he wished to widen the conflict in the region.

Spells out clear military objectives. Congress would hold a tight leash on the current conflict. This would be in marked contrast to its role in the Vietnam War, which was lost in part because of nebulous war aims. The Biden-Lugar compromise realizes the folly of sending troops into harm's way without delineating the specific military objectives to be accomplished.

Reaffirms the American conviction that war-making power should lie with the people. In contrast with the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, the Biden-Lugar compromise would respect the ongoing prerogatives of Congress during military engagement. The Constitution demands that American military decisions involving the use of force rest only with the people's representatives in Congress."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Dean supported Bush makng final decision for unilateral war.
The same thing he attacks those who voted for the IWR.

ACLU report agrees with Kerry and Dean that B-L was the better bill. But it does not enlighten people on the falsity of Dean's attacks on the other candidates.

Can you address Dean's support of a bill that allows Bush the determination for use of force even if unilateral?

Can you explain why Dean never told his audiences that he supported that provision?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. blm you are not making any sense
You have been trumpeting the fact that Dean said he supported Biden-Lugar for months now. How can you say that he didn't tell anyone he supported it and yet also say he said he supported it? That makes no sense. At least you've stopped trying to say there's no difference between the two.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:16 AM
Original message
No, I said he didn't tell his AUDIENCES he supported it
while attacking the other Dems for supporting the same measures he supported in B-L.

btw...I never said there was NO difference between the two. That was a lie put forth by deanies to discredit me. I always stated that there wasn't MUCH difference between the two and that they were similar. Please don't spread false memes.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. Ummm... you just did it in post 33
"He attacked others for the very thing he had said he would have voted for."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. He didn't say it in forums that were attended by antiwar supporters
he said he was for Biden-Lugar to various reporters when he was still running as a centrist.

You can't see the difference? Can you find me any of his speeches where he is attacking the others for IWR where he tells his fired up audience that he, too, supported Bush making the final determination that force is needed and even unilateral force?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Stop changing the subject
You just said they were the same after denying you'd ever said it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I never said the bills were the same
I said the provision that Dean attacked them on was the same. Bush was allowed to make the determination for use of forec even if it was unilateral and THAT is what Dean fails to tell his audiences. Only a few reporters ever were told about Biden-Lugar and that was likely Dean covering his ass in case the war was a success.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. more nonsense...
... and an attempt by Kerry to equate a couple of off the cuff remarks in the midst of literally hundreds with a Senate vote.

Kinda like when John mentioned Jim Baker. :)

Sorry John, but go ahead and develop the calluses Dean will need later - you're doing us a favor.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Not off the cuff. Dean said he would have VOTED for Biden-Lugar.
Saying you'd vote for it is hardly off the cuff.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. I sure wish Kerry wasn't doing this on Fox News.
Criticizing other Democrats on that network, even if it is justified, is bad news for ALL Dems.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. See post#12. Kerry was not on Faux News!
Happy Birthday, John Kerry!
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean!!
<snarf>
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Will Kerry be on his motorbike??? Vrooom.....vrooooomm..just another
embarassing moment in the Kerry Komedy!!...

Dean '04...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. I repeat:
someone needs to explain that whole "brevity is the soul of wit" thing to you. It seems that you misunderstood.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Yup.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:26 PM
Original message
Hee!
.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Not sure what you meant by that
I receive the Kerry emails and only the Kerry emails because of my interest in him as a candidate. It was the faux news stuff I was concerned about.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry's up to his old tricks
All these campaign makeovers and still the same old bag 'o tricks,
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. Kerry version 5.0 is significantly better than 4.0
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kerry isn't going to help himself by doing this
When is he ever going to understand why he doesn't have the widespread support he expected to get? What Dean does or says has nothing to do with why many Democrats are angry with John Kerry. They are mad not even because of the vote at this point. They are mad because John Kerry keeps making excuses for his vote and rather than own that, be responsible for his own bad choices and apologize for that...he's trying to blame Howard Dean for something that is of his own doing.

Kerry supporters, you have got to stop your candidate from continuing what he's doing. Dean supporters are NOT supporting him because of Iraq. All his opposition to Iraq did was get people to look at him sooner. It's NOT why people support him. Kerry is NOT going to win any votes by doing this ridiculous kind of thing. Dean is NOT going to be hurt by it, either. All Kerry is doing by making these foolish attacks on Dean is further alienating the people who are angry with him in the first place because he keeps attacking another Democrat rather than keeping his eye on the prize.

If Kerry continues on the path he has chosen I don't think he'll be elected to any office ever again. He's destroying himself badly.
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phirili Donating Member (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dean lies are exposed and his cult focus on FOX and ACLU
A lie is a lie is a lie.

Did Dean say Saddam was a threat to the United States. YES

Did Dean support a resolution for the President to go to war. YES

Deaners deal with that and stop clutching at straws.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Where is the lie?
Except in the spin people are putting upon the story to claim that Dean lied? It's the accusers who are lying, my friend. It's absolutely ridiculous.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Did Dean tell audiences he supported Bush determining need for force
even if it was unilateral? Or did he tell them he was against that?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Once again...
what's the full quote? You can't just pull one line and bash away. That's simply dishonest. The full quote shows that he was completely consistent. Sorry, but your hammer is a false one on this matter.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Read Biden-Lugar. The issue is more than one appearance
and based on a very real resolution that Dean did say he would have voted for. The one that gave Bush the final determination on use of force, even if unilateral. There is no spin just simple fact.

You can't cling to one appearance and one set of statements and expect it to cover ALL Dean's statements and actions that conflict. He attacked others for the very thing he had said he would have voted for.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I'm not clinging to one appearance, you are.
That's the point.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yes. It was wrong. I wrote and told him so.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kerry wants the Democratic nomination...
... and you think he is going to get it by saying nice things about Dean?


What does a dem gain by going on right wing fox news and tearing down another democratic candidate? I can't imagine that fox viewers will vote for Kerry.

Pretty broad brush you paint with, don't you think?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
32. Dean made himself known by attacking other Dems.
Now they are outraged that someone would counter Dean's deceptive attacks with the truth.

How dare the truth come out now? I'm embarassed that it took so long and that the press is so gawddam lazy or complicit in the coverup.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. Better now than later.
I'm sickened by how Dean has played the war for political gain.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. Lieberman did it, too
Fox loves having on Dems to carve each other up.
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Northwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
23. What do you expect?
From the corrupt Washington insider?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
26. Watching Kerry right now on CSPAN2.
He's looking very good. It's good to see real Americans out there supporting his ideas.

He's a really great guy.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. With the Fire Fighters?
Noone should underestimate the impact that the fire fighters support of Kerry will have in a general election. NYC Fire Fighters (and the IAFF) supporting Kerry after 9-11 will have a REAL impact as an image that Bush couldn't buy with MILLIONS of dollars.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
34. He still doesn't get it
that's why he's not getting the nom.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Bashing Dean doesn't help him
And It's not just about the IWR vote, but what they did before during and after it all played out.

Kerry can't just wipe away the last year from everybody's mind with some mass-scale jedi-mind trick. They know Dean stood against the war, and did so consistantly. Including Gore, who should know, since he was consulting Dean during the goddamn thing.

For other takes on the subject, I reccoment these threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Telling the truth doesn't work and lying does. That's what he should get?
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 12:28 PM by blm
Reward the deceiver and punish the guy who notices?

He DOES get that the press won't tell the truth about Dean's deceptions on their own and HE is stuck having to address the issue. I'm sure the press will severely punish him for stating the truth.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. The truth?
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 11:03 PM by HuckleB
The truth is that Kerry's statement is dishonest. It's out of context. You know it, I know it, and Kerry knows it. It's pitiful.
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