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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:03 PM
Original message
North of the border concerns
I have serious concerns maybe someone can help me put to rest.
I'm a Canadian so I can't vote in the US. My concern is that, from where I'm sitting there is no one that can be considered serious competition for Bush. Granted Bush is not too popular. But I'm spooked that the Left in the US won't rally enough to oust the him. I've spoken to some Americans that say he's out no matter who the Dems pick to run against him. Then I've heard others say that he will be re-elected due to things like a left split in the vote again.

It concerns me because he really is screwing the world up. I don't have the luxury of living in the States to talk to the people though. And most of what I know of US politics I get from DU or the news. But what are the people saying? Can Bush be ousted?

What is the general feeling down there? I'm pretty certain DU isn't 100 per cent on the pulse because it's a Dem site.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not confident of anything
Our best hope would be another Perot. I do believe we have some good candidates but that the Dem leadership is being VERY poor foot soldiers. Our message is being sabotaged at every turn.

While I can force myself to be optimistic and must admit that since the recall here, I have done nothing and am not sure I plan to ( I now don't have money to throw down the drain from my pocket or my business) I really have my doubts as to whether we can pull it off.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If the greens vote dem and the Dems who didn't vote last time
all vote and vote dem.... I hope it can be enough.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Looking fairly good for Bush at this time.
If he loses, it'll probably be because Iraq is even worse in the middle of next year than it is now AND the economy worse too.

How likely are both of those.

Plus, the Democrat with the best shot at beating Bush (the only one who won in a conservative state) is far back in the pack now, while the leaders too strongly resemble miserable Dem failures from elections in the 70s and 80s.

Most DUers are engaging in wishful thinking now. I've seen enough lost elections to recognize the pattern.

Sorry to be such a downer, man.
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JailBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't it obvious?
Bush stole the White House in 2000, and there was no revolt.

The Republicans should have had their butts kicked during Camapign 2000, but they slaughtered the Democrats. Campaign 2003? I ran for office in liberal Seattle and made Bush a campaign issue. YAWN; no one cared.

We've squandered every election between the last presidential campaign and Campaign 2004. In the meantime, EVERYTHING in this country becomes more corrupt daily. I honestly don't believe there's a single political organization here in Seattle - from the City Council to local school boards to "activist" groups that isn't corrupt. One of the Democrats' biggest allies is the National Education Association, which is a steaming sack of shit.

Of course, Bush's stupidity and treachery are hardly a secret, and it's POSSIBLE he'll get voted out, but anyone who bets money on his defeat is a fool. If I had to bet, I'd bet on Bush.

On another note, I'm infuriated by the global apathy. Sure, we Americans should be taking care of bush ourselves - but we AREN'T. The world ignored and appeased Adolph Hitler, and look what happened. Now the world is empowering George W. Bush.

I get occasional e-mail from foreign nationals asking questions about my websites. If I raise the topic of George W. Bush, they seldom say anything gutsy and often don't respond at all. Sheez, they're just as apathetic and ignorant as Democrats!
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ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I 'talk' to people all over the world....
through my eBay purchases. Every one, EVERY SINGLE ONE, from Europe, Africa, South America, says that bush is dangerous, that the US is feared, that its foreign policy is WRONG. They say that they don't dislike Americans as individuals, but I suspect that that will change if the policies continue as they are. If * wins in '04, we won't be able to go anywhere in the world by the end of his term, and we'll be in a police state, and our rights will be in name only.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am not so sure it is a "luxury" to live here
anymore. I have been to Canada many times as I live not too far from the border. I admire your country, it's beauty and the people in it who have always been most welcoming, polite and friendly. I am, at this point, ashamed of my country--there is nothing in Bush and his administration to be proud of. He is evil and I wish and hope we can get him out of here in a hurry in 2004. I hope and hope and if the despicable idiot cannot be ousted in 2004 I do not know where we are headed next. If these three years have been any indication, I would say we are headed for total dictatorship and total fascism--how that would affect any who border us, ie Mexico and Canada, I have no idea--I am not that politically savvy.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I just mean the luxury of being in the country to talk in the streets
abou the election ;-)
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. We dont know, yet, HeyHey....
In June 1992, Clinton was THIRD behind Poppy bush and Ross Perot. But yet he won handily, 5 months later. It's just too early to say, a lot of things can and will happen before we get close enough to November to know.

Thanks for your best wishes, however. I would say it depends a LOT on who our nominee is. I think there are three of them who can win. The rest, no.
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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think we can win
If we concentrate on reaching every city-dwelling adult in America. We have many more people in the city, than in the suburbs, and if we get a good turnout we can win.
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democracy eh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. who knows what next year will bring
12 months ago the cause was lost, 3 months ago Gov. Chimpy was gone for sure. now it seems like it is a toss up (but according to Judy Woodruff due to electoral college changes it is a slam dunk for Bush so why bother trying)(***** **** **** ****) It is impossible to know what the next year will bring. (Iraq war, another god damned war, "terrorist" attack, political assassination, economy, emergence of fiscal conservative opposition)


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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. HEyHEY, you're lucky that
you do NOT live in the states right now! I never, ever, EVER in five hundred million years thought I'd ever say that, but there it is. Then again, I never thought we'd be in this situation, either.

And, should we be unsuccessful next year, and it's looking more and more like that might be the case, I am preparing to join you in your fair country and I'm fucking serious. I'm already laying the groundwork, as you know. I will fight like holy hell to get that demon and his thugs the hell out of the WH, out of power, and out of the world's lives for good, but I just don't know if it'll happen no matter how hard we work. The people I'm talking to, even the ones who hate/dislike/don't care for Shrub, aren't so sure he'll be voted out, and he still has fairly high poll ratings even AFTER all the shit he's done, which is totally unbelievable and unacceptable to me.
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Those who hate Bush, hate him a LOT
This is what's radically different from the previous election.

I think that there will be more turnout at the polls because people (who have a clue) will realize what a difference electing one candidate over another makes. This was not clear in the previous election.

There ARE loyal republicans, and I've met plenty of them. But I believe there are also many fence-sitting Americans who recognize what a disaster Bush has been.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Who knows as there are a lot of people who, like Bush, are into....
are in to mass killing about any thing that moves. I am really a bad judge as I never think the guy I vote for will win. I did not think Clinton would win the first time he ran. Bush is really making a mess of this world. I guess old Ben was right.
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pink_poodle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. That's why I come to these forums. I share your worries and...........
I feel like it's similar to watching a train wreck in process. The dread.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. We are going to win the 2004 election.
People are uniting, and in the next year you will see Democratic activism like what has never before been seen in the history of the US. If you are really concerned, see if you can start a movement in Canada to donate money to Moveon.org or another activist organization. We deeply appreciate your concern, and need the help of the rest of the world. Because as you realize, if * gets 4 more years, the whole world is going to suffer. Thanks.



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