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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:19 PM
Original message
Every American worker should be a US citizen
Anyone who works for a US corporation should get to be a citizen. I don't think it should matter if that person is brought to the US to work as an H1B or an L1, or if that person is working offshore - if you work for a corporation chartered by one of the 50 United States, you are a citizen of that US state. It's the only way to be fair to both the worker and all of us United States citizens.

We already grant that residents in the US have the same civil rights, although that has been eroded in recent years. If we are serious about labor standards, civil rights, and raising living standards abroad, this should be one of our top priorities.

I can't think of anything that would promote honest free trade more than allowing us all to work on a level playing field.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Privatizing citizenship?
So COMPANIES get to choose who becomes a citizen?

I hope that's not what you are saying.
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alexwcovington Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It sounds more like
not letting companies hold their immigrant workers on a leash.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. as long as they follow the rules, let the market decide
Maybe you all have convinced me? If the citizens of a state decide to allow their corporations to hire whoever they want, then sure. If the citizens decide to only allow, let's say, Canadians, Brazilians, Japanese, and the EU, then let them.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yup
nothing like protectionism.

Globalism when it works for us...screw everybody else when it doesn't.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I'm for 100% free trade, no tariffs, no visas needed, with Canada
For any country with our living standards and environmental protections and labor rights I'm all for open, fair, free trade.

I don't want to screw anyone - I'm against mass layoffs that destroy entire towns when profits can be made elsewhere - that's what you're for, "labor flexibility" remember?
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's nice
Now how about the other 6 billion people on the planet?

Without whom, your entire country would collapse.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. what about prison labor Maple?
How does prison labor, or factory towns, or slave labor fit into your free market policies? Let the market decide?

I think your capitalist utopia sounds really great, but how is it supposed to work in the real world?
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Phony excuse of protectionism
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 01:09 AM by SahaleArm
Are you proposing a nonsensical idea of only trading with Canada and EU? What about the rest of the world that's 25-years behind because the nations that compromise the EU and the US fu*ked over the 3rd world for over a century. We f*cked up the environment not India and China, now we won't let them have growing pains?
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. we won't let them have growing pains?
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 12:44 PM by WhoCountsTheVotes
What does that mean? Protectionism works, and ending slave labor and private prisons is not a phony excuse, it's a valid reason.

Opening US markets isn't going to make your average third world person richer - it's going to make US CEOs richer while the rest of us stagnate - why would anyone, first or third world, want that?
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alexwcovington Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fine. But I want it to go both ways.
Just in case I ever look for jobs in Canada or Burkina Faso.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. simply enforcing the American minimum wage for overseas workers...
...would do wonders for keeping jobs here.

But it's too much to ask, apparently.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Gephardt did propose an international minimum wage
That would certainly be a start, even if we had to weigh it by region.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. This Is An Interesting Thread- Thanks
I need to learn about Economic Theory.

Found this sight if anyone's interested... pretty balanced views.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/ProtectOrDeregulate.asp
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't think so.
Can we be citizens of other countries if we work for their companies? will we be allowed to practice our religion freely, speak and publish freely? Or will we just be importing the problems of these other places?

It's a nice thought, but I, for one, don't think it will work.
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TXvote Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. Tax International Western Union Transfers
and then illegal workers would be contributing to the tax base.....

Just a thought....

Peace,
Teresa
www.votervirgin.com
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TSElliott Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Do this and America's Number 1 import will be Human Cargo.
Importing cheap labor from overseas in the promise of citizenship, you think this would help you get a job. Hardly, you will be competing with people who will do the same job cheaper because they want to be a citizen.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. we already are competeing with them
We are competeing with people who will do the same job cheaper, often because they have no rights and no options - US citizenship would give them options, and it would make corporations prove that they need to hire those workers.
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