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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:07 PM
Original message
Adam Smith's Invisible Slap
Edited on Mon Nov-17-03 02:17 PM by brainshrub
I have an internet-chat friend who lost his job in Milwaukee last year. He worked for Master Lock for 12 years before the factory closed down. His plant's closing wasn't due to a lack of efficiency, union problems or low sales. In fact, MasterBrand Industries, the parent company of Master Lock, has been making record-profits for years! So why did the factory close? Because Wal-Mart representatives told Master Lock that unless they lowered their prices, the retail giant would switch to a competitor. The only way Master Lock was able to slash costs enough to satisfy Wal-Mart was to open a factory in Mexico, where the labor pool is cheaper.

I asked my internet-chat friend if he was mad at Wal-Mart for being the primary reason that he lost his job. I saw his shoulders shrug on the web-cam as he wrote:

"I'm not going to hold that against them. I learned in school that Adam Smith proved that the Invisible Hand would ensure a net gain in wealth for the economy overall. ... I'm going to keep shopping at Wal-Mart because I need their low prices now more than ever. Besides, I'm sure that there is another job out there that I can fill."

He is still unemployed.

I was shocked when I heard how his misunderstanding about macroeconomics justified, in his mind, his treatment at the hands of the Wal-Mart. Talk about victim mentality! Here was a man who was advertising the services of a corporation that had helped put him on the unemployment line in the first place! His blind, religious faith in Adam Smith's "invisible hand" would have made the most radical fundamentalist blush. What makes this especially ironic is that Adam Smith would have feared Wal-Mart more than the most hardened anti-globalization activist.

To quote Noam Chomsky: "Adam Smith is the guy we are all supposed to love, but not supposed to read." Conservatives love to use Smith to justify Darwinian-style, international globalization. In reality, Smith's famous "invisible hand" comment, when taken in context, shows that he put his faith in local economies, not international corporations, for long-term prosperity.

Adam Smith only used the term "Invisible Hand" ONCE in his 500 plus-page epic tome, "Wealth Of Nations."

"...by preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry, he intends only his own security, and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention." (emphasis added)

Smith goes on later in his book to predict that global corporations destroy local economic ecosystems to the detriment of the larger economy. In other words, we consumers think we are saving money, but the long term consequences are disastrous for the nation. If Adam Smith were alive today, he would be a pro-union Democrat!

So what happened to the benevolent invisible hand that would sustain local economies and protect us from Wal-Mart's predatory practices? The reason that the invisible hand seems to be, well, invisible, is that it has been temporarily short-circuited by two factors:

1) The removal of protective tariffs, thus allowing large corporations to out-source manufacturing jobs to countries with low wages and weak environmental safety laws.

2) Foreign dictatorships that prevent their people from demanding a living wage.

Please note that both of the above factors are temporary political realities; the tariffs that once protected the American manufacturing base were removed after intense lobbying by the corporate elites who wanted to exploit the slave labor in Asia and Mexico. Yet, history shows us that tyrannical governments do not make good long-term partners; the locals in those countries will eventually rise up to overthrow their oppressors, be they political dictators or corporate executives. Even if a foreign revolution doesn't happen in the foreseeable future, Wal-Mart's business plan is doomed because eventually Americans will not be able to buy goods from them if they don't have jobs.

Thanks to the shortsightedness of politicians and corporate elitists who have gutted the protections needed for a sustainable national economy, the invisible hand has become a low wage fist that is pounding workers into the unemployment line. There is simply no way the average American can compete against a foreign labor pool that only needs to be paid $50 per week. This problem is best summed up in the final paragraph of the article: "The Wal-Mart You Dont Know" by Charles Fishman (2003).

"It's Wal-Mart in the role of Adam Smith's invisible hand and the Milwaukee employees of Master Lock who shopped at Wal-Mart to save money, that helped shove their own jobs right to Nogales, Mexico. Not consciously, not directly, but inevitably.

'Do we as consumers appreciate what we're doing?' Randall Larrimore, CEO of MasterBrand Industries, asks. 'I don't think so. But even if we do, I think we say, Here's a Master Lock for $9, here's another lock for $6--let the other guy pay $9.'"


Americans must learn that when we choose Wal-Mart's low prices, we become accomplices in the dismantling of the local economy. Every dollar spent in a Wal-Mart equals another dollar the federal government will have to spend on unemployment checks when Adam Smith's invisible hand finally slaps us across the collective face.

--end--
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Adam Smith has been spinning in his grave for a long time now (nt)
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. How long before we shut down WalMarts?
We need to have out of work factory workers barring the entrance to these stores.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Isn't that anti-freedom? How would that be different from the
anti-choice people barring access to abortion clinics? You have to defend everybodies' freedom, or you lose your own.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. We learn over time
The trouble is that over time we learn the ramifications of actions. Thus we are now seeing the disembowelment of the working class of America in the name of FreeTrade. Not that it says We The People. Not we the corporations. Thus the purpose of this nation is to build a more perfect union of people. To this effect if we percieve a thing which can damage that union We The People must stand against it or this experiment fails.

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Anti-Freedom? Whatta bunch of claptrap
He's talking about a private -- not government -- action.

And WTF kind of Orwellian nonsense is the phrase 'Anti freedom' as applied here?

I have no reason, and absolutely no duty, to protect Walmart's 'freedom' from it's disgruntled customer base. What they sow, so shall they reap!

Bah...

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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I think Silverhair means
if person A prevents persons B and C from doing business through coercive means...and Silverhair is correct
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Either you are terribly naive, or being purposely obtuse
Do you honestly think that 'coercive means' aren't a part and parcel of the regular, everyday business world nowdays?

Is it only when otherwise powerless citizens stand in the way that you consider it 'coercive'? (acting out above their class? is that it?)

Do you consider boycotts 'coercive'? How about Unionization drives? Strikes? Is a strike 'coercive'?

The so-called 'Class War' has been raging on as always, and we have a bunch of Quislings on our side telling us to disarm.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I am neither...
a picket line would not be coercive....pushing people back away from the door would...a boycott would not..

I used the word 'prevents'...a better wording would have been 'doesn't allow' or 'prevents against their will'...

better?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I see
So a strike/picket is okay with you, as long as it's polite. Same with Civil Disobedience, I'd imagine?

Got it.

:eyes:
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. put it this way...
If my daughter wanted to go into WalMart, and someone physically prevented her from doing so, that would be over the line...yelling at her would not...

If someone pushes you back from the door that's over the line...blocking the way so you have to go around is not...

Got it?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Sure, Got it...
Now go back and read post #3, and see if you can tell whether that suggested course of action crosses your Thin Grey Line, or whether it's so certainly 'Anti-Freedom' as Silverhair and you profess.

Hard to tell from only one sentence whether 'barred' means just standing there in the way or actually committing Battery. Still, you were quick to state that it would be Anti-Freedom....

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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. descending to definitions...
have a pleasant evening...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Actually it's called 'defining your terms'
and it's quite necessary to have a rational discussion / argument / debate.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Right on! (nt)
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. We also need to Unionize the stores.
The trade Unions need to fight for Wal Marts unionization like their existence depended on it...because it does.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Adam Smith spinns in his grave every time
a repuke social and economic darwinist (who are almost ALL born with silver spoons in their mouths so they really have no idea what the hell they're talking about) invokes his name to justify their inhuman, inhumane, ruthless, heartless, greedy, selfish, materialistic policies.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. doesn't WalMart or another buyer
have the right to seek the lowest price?
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes, but that right ends when the rights of others are endangered (nt)
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. yeah...but the person in Milwaukee
doesn't have a 'right' to a job at MasterLock...any more than MasterLock has a 'right' to a renewed contract with WalMart...
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. We have a right to work & a living wage.
Human rights and economic prosperity are linked issues. When Americans don't care what kind of labor practices occur in the production of goods, the result is a form of economic blow-back.

Instead of dealing with the issue of Globalization as a human-rights issue, conservatives are using Adam Smith to justify it. The results are the loss of jobs here in the US & slave labor abroad.

We all have a right to a job. It is a myth that we do not. We also have a right to a living wage. Check the http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html">Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.


The United States has signed onto this document.


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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. that may all be...
but it doesn't mean he has a right to a job a MasterLock...and living wage is an undefinable term...a living wage in Juarez MX is different than one in Milwaukee...and if the factory stays in Milwaukee, where does the guy in Juarez earn his living wage?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. No one has said he has a right to it.
Your question about where the guy in Juarez should earn a living wage is irrelevant.

If workers' rights were observed everywhere, we wouldn't see these shifts of manufacturers, since shipping costs would ensure that the production was moved as close as possible to where the consumers are. Yes, it would still be cheaper in Juarez, but not so much (not even CLOSE).
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. post #5 pretty much says he has a right to it
if no one's rights were violated, what's the problem with WalMart's actions?
and how do you decide which workers rights are worth caring about? (since the Juarez issue is irrelevant to you)?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Have you taken logic?
This makes absolutely no sense.

You interpret a statement that Wal-Mart doesn't have the right to seek the lowest price, if that quest results in the rights of another being abridged, equates to a choice between giving a wage slave in Juarez a pennies-per-day job or keeping the job here in the US.

That is not logical.

The choice is between observing workers' rights or not doing so.

Obviously, workers' rights are violated by Wal-Mart every day that monstrosity does business. So... that's the problem.

ALL workers' rights are worth caring about.

It's not that the Juarez issue is irrelevant to ME, it's irrelevant to THIS discussion.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. right....
your'e much too clever for me to debate...

have a good evening
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. LOL! n/t
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Liberty is an undefinable term.
So is Freedom. Would trust either to the corporations?
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I disagree..
liberty can be defined fairly easily...lack of coercion and ability to make your own choices...that kind of thing...living wage varies by locale and needs/desires..that's all I meant
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Do they have the right to force the prices lower?
Edited on Mon Nov-17-03 02:18 PM by lunabush
Either you do business with us, the way we want us, or you won't be in our store is Walmart philosphy.

I know a plant manager for a large company selling office supply stuff. If they want floor space from Walmart they have to buy the space. That means, most often, actually buying the stock that is in the space they need. Ever wonder how crap winds up in the dollar store? It was in Walmart, wasn't selling well, so Walmart shopped it to the large corp that wanted exposure on Walmart shelves. Large copr then wholesales it out to dollar stores, just to unload it.

edit to add - its a viscious cycle - if you don't play ball with Walmart you lose the sells in that store - but more than that you lose your name - branding is depreciated without Walmart exposure.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. if they can force the price lower by not buying..
yeah..they do...MasterLock made a voluntary choice..to keep WalMart's business...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Right, but labor rights are much better here than in Mexico (nt)
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. that's true....
but not relevant that I can see...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. It's perfectly relevant
Wal-mart relies on overseas cheap labor to produce their products, and corporate homogenization to elminate competition and hire their own staff for considerably less money than local or smaller competitors. If this trend continues, jobs will continue to be exported--labor rights are expensive, and as more good-paying blue collar jobs leave the country to be replaced by low-benefit/paying service jobs, products will need to be cheaper and cheaper. Therefore, more manufacturing jobs will have to go overseas to cut costs, and the cycle will continue, to the detriment of our own economy, and to the maintenance of deplorable labor conditions abroad.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. pls see post #25 n/t
.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. What you're describing
is coming to be termed as the 'race to the bottom'.

As Adam Smith understood, with enormous multinationals exploiting cheap labor and favorable tax laws, it is to the detriment of not only beneficial capitalist competition, but the public interest as well.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Race to the Bottom
The race to the bottom could also be described as money flowing to the poorest areas of the world. Funny how people around here are all gung-ho about redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor until you consider that on the global stage, US factory workers are "the rich".

The bottom line is this: US factory wages are unsustainably high. You cannot stop what is happening.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. True. Let's make a deal
In order for a nation to receive 'most favored nation' trading status, how about we require that that nation's laws allow, in fact PROTECT, the worker's right to collective bargaining? This means China.

We can't stop what's happening. The question is, do all the 'boats' rise to the same (middle) level, or do we in the US just sink down to $2.00/day wages? On that much, we do have some say.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Deal
I'm all for restricting MFN status to those that protect a worker's right to collective bargaining. As for the your other question, I believe that global wages will eventually meet somewhere toward the upper middle. IOW, around 2/3 of current US wages.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. No, they are NOT unsustainably high
You're telling me that an executive "earning" a million-dollar salary is more sustainable than a bunch of factory workers getting a living wage? Bushwah! If they were unsustainable the company would go under...and that is not the case. The current situation is that the jobs are going over-seas DESPITE earning a profit due to the removal of tariffs, slave labor and weak unions.

Your salary is predicated on the amount of power you hold on the negotiating table, not the wealth you produce for the company. The removal of tariffs have weakened the negotiating power of workers and manufacturers, to the detriment of the rest of the economy.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Please Read More Carefully
You're telling me that an executive "earning" a million-dollar salary is more sustainable than a bunch of factory workers getting a living wage?

No, I never said that.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. That's the implication, though. No arguing that.
By saying that the only problem in the system is the workers' wages, you implicitly accept that sky-high CEO & Top Exec compensation is not only acceptable, but unchangeable.

'scuse me while I :puke:


I just love Kucinich... he's such a great thinker... not bound by the memes that have been drilled into our heads (like 'ignore CEO pay, you can't stop it -- instead, soak the workers!)

He's actually proposed tying CEO pay to a certain multiple of the average or lowest paid worker's.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. U.S. factory wages are
"unsustainably high?" WTF???? I've worked in those fucking factories earning minimum wage, and most factory workers I know earn barely above the minimum wage and have little or very inadequate benefits. Frankly, that's the kind specious, false argument union-busting republicans like to make. And most factory conditions suck pig water big-time. Just the thought of working in one of those places again makes me want to get a gun and blow my brains out, because I'd rather die than deal with that shit again.

Most people who say that factory/blue collar, etc., wages are too high are those who were either born with a silver spoon in their mouths and have never had to dirty their hands with any kind of real work, or those with a cushy, high-paying job where they don't have to dirty their hands with that kind of work.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Yes they are
If US factory wages were globally competitive, companies would not be rushing to leave. The proof is obvious if you chose to see it.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Can you say 'Duh'?
If workers globally had the right to organize, limited work hours, etc., guess what would happen to that defintion of 'competitive' you use?

By the Repuke definition you seem to be using, a 'competitive' wage means one that lets the abhorrently overpaid executives of such multinationals create a serfdom to exploit.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. They sure do
even if that means putting thousands of people out of work. It's called capitalism and it ain't pretty.
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. markets are constantly manipulated
this invisible hand stuff is just perpetuated myth

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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. The REAL Adam Smith.
"All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy when part of the members are poor and miserable."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The liberal reward of labor, therefore, as it is the necessary effect, so it is the natural symptom of increasing national wealth. The scanty maintenance of the laboring poor, on the other hand, is the natural symptom that things are at a stand, and their starving condition that they going backwards fast."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The rate of profit... is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state .... 'remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.'"
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate differences between masters and their workmen, its counsellors are always the masters. When the regulation, therefore, is in favor of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favor of the masters."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The interest of dealers, however,... is a always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public... The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes frm this order ought... never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"In a society of an hundred thousand families, there will perhaps be one hundred who don't labour at all, and who yet, either by violence, or by the more orderly oppression of law, employ a greater part of the labour of society than any other ten thousand in it. The division of what remains, too, after this enormous defalcation, is by no means made in proportion to the labour of each individual. On the contrary those who labour most get least. The opulent merchant, who spends a great part of his time in luxury and entertainments, enjoys a much greater proportion of the profits of his traffic, than all the Clerks and Accountants who do the business. These last, again, enjoying a great deal of leisure, and suffering scarce any other hardship besides the confinement of attendance, enjoy a much greater share of the produce, than three times an equal number of artizans, who, under their direction, labour much more severely and assiduously. The artizan again, tho' he works generally under cover, protected from the injuries of the weather, at his ease and assisted by the convenience of innumerable machines, enjoys a much greater share than the poor labourer who has the soil and the seasons to struggle with, and, who while he affords the materials for supplying the luxury of all the other members of the common wealth, and bears, as it were, upon his shoulders the whole fabric of human society, seems himself to be buried out of sight in the lowest foundations of the building."
-- Adam Smith, first draft of Wealth Of Nations



"We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labor above their actual price."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Notice how very liberal and progressive he
sounds, you know he would kick the ass of modern capitalists if he could see how they've corrupted his teachings and his name.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Hey, thanks a lot for posting these.
I've read "Wealth of Nations", but never owned a copy. I appreciate you putting these up for others to see.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Some other DU'er posted them long ago.
Can't recall who, but I bookmarked the page cause it's ALWAYS coming in handy.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Quotes-economics.htm

The Adam Smith quotes are towards the end.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Mr. Smith, Sir
Well repays close reading: he is very much on our side. The quotes you have provided are by no means anomalous or isolated in his text, but embody important elements he frequently recurrs to.

Actually reading "Wealth of Nations" cannot be too highly recommended.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. Excellent post on Adam Smith. Thank you.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-03 02:47 PM by Redleg
I believe most so-called "capitalists" have never even read Adam Smith. I am a management professor in a business college and only 1 of roughly 100 students had read Smith before taking my organizational behavior course. That student was a foreign student from Bulgaria.

The rest of them like to cite the conservative talking points about unions and government regulations being bad for business. Screw 'em. Maybe I'll shove some Marx, Durkheim, and Weber down their throats next!

By the way, Adam Smith is usually called a "Classic Liberal" by those who study such things. Classic liberalism is a way of thinking very similar to many of the U.S.'s "founding fathers."
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. It took me about a year to read Wealth Of Nations.
I picked it up five years after I finished college. It changed my whole world-view.

I'm amazed that I never read it before. Nobody should to get a degree in business without reading it AND spending a whole semester studying it.

Thanks for telling me that Smith is a "Classic Liberal." I didn't know that, although I figured as much.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. 4 years of Bush and 10 years for "free trade" is enough
They are both destroying America.

As far back as the founding, Americans realized that to build a nation tariffs were necessary. Its also true of maintaining a nation.

Corporations, being potentially longer-lived than the nations that spawn them, behave like parasitic wasps growing within their insect hosts...ultimately seeking independence and sucking them dry.







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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. On that note, please read the FTAA thread re: demonstrators in Miami (n/t)
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-03 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
58. Destroying not only America, but other nations too..
Edited on Wed Nov-19-03 01:07 AM by lostnfound
Naiively I thought NAFTA would pull us down a bit but would bring others up. It hasn't happened. Mexico poverty has doubled. American agriculural exports replacing native farmer livelihoods, so they have no jobs. They flock to the cities with the sweatshop jobs, but those too are being exported to Vietnam and Laos. There's a lot of irony there..

I think of it as a swarm of locusts, stripping the fields bare before moving on, leaving the people starving behind them.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick (nt)
:kick:
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Being a unemployed steelworker I understand
This country doesnt care about its people. Well maybe some of us but most dont. I lost my job when the owner closed it to break the union and then he reopened it a few months later under a new name. All perfectly legal. The company then lost to China and shut down. The sonsobitches that run things seem to make it easy for these people.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-03 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. And they are squeezing every last bit of air from the US economy
Companies like Accenture (Arthur Andersen reborn) are making a business of outsourcing all types of lower-level white-color jobs (paper pushers) to foreign places.

Also there is a huge push to buy every last kind of supplies from overseas manufacturers, to cut costs.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-03 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
60. The Wealth of Nations?
The greatest piece of fiction ever thrusted upon mankind. Laissez Faire, trickle down economics does not work. Never has and never will.

John
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