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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:49 PM
Original message
Clark's statement on the Confederate Flag....
"The Confederate flag flies in the face of our most deeply-held American values - diversity, equality and inclusion. As someone who led men and women of all backgrounds in the United States military, I believe that the only flag we should fly is the one that brings us together - the stars and stripes - and that the Confederate flag should never, ever be flown on public buildings."


___________

You can read it firsthand at his website.

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am glad he didn't take a did at Dean...
:toast:
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. when was this written?
is this a response to the Dean thing or a previously written, general statement re the flag.

i ask because it doesn't really address the issue at hand.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. There is no "issue at hand"...
That's the point of Clark's message.
The real issue is the confederate flag on Public Buildings.

Don't you get that?
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. link to the quote? thanks
and the issue is Dean's outreach to southerners.
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. I hate kerfuffles like this
... where everyone does their little dance pretending Candidate X meant something that everyone knows Candidate X didn't mean. A waste of time. The incident of Dean's "evenhanded" remark (re: the Middle East) was an even worse instance. Kudos to my guy Clark for restricting his remarks to the flag and foregoing the self-righteous strut.

I do think Dean is culturally clueless. This whole "I'll appeal to the white working-class rebel-yelling Southern man by informing him that he's been an idiot to vote Republican all these years" is -- not going to work. And it's patronizing.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice. . .
. . .he did not attack Dean (which he could have done). Nonetheless hyper sensitive Deanies will criticize him for having a thought on the issue.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think he "has to" have a thought on the issue...
less the media and Joe Lieberman go after him
for not saying something.

All the other major candidates seemed to take a dig
at Dean in some way.

I think Clark didn't actually have to draw the line
in the sand, but I am glad he did.
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pruner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have no problem with this statement
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 06:55 PM by pruner
unlike Kerry, Gephardt & Edwards, he doesn't attack Dean or misconstrue Dean's remarks.

perhaps he would've done so if he were polling as low as Kerry, Gephardt & Edwards are, but he's not, so I guess we'll never know.

:)
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. And given some of Dean's attacks on Clark. . .
. . .Clark has really taken the high road.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. The American flag, like the Pledge of Allegiance, and that stupid song
"Gawd Bless America" do not, I repeat, do not bring us together.

For those that shed tears at the flag-waiving, and Clear Channel sponsored "Support the Troops" rallies, where are they now? Why aren't they supporting the troops by demanding they be brought home ASAP!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Youre right about the flag I think
You know, what brings us together I dunno is common ground I guess.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Indiana Green....
we have an election to win here.

And by the way, we are a sovereign nation state,
we are not just a bunch of folks that leave near
each other. That means something. The flag means
something. It's symbolic. Symbolism matters.
Wave it once in a while, you will feel good.
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roughsatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
55. Your reply illustrates the divisive self-righteousness that IndianaGreen
is referring too in her/his post. When I read your phrase: "You will feel good" I heard a German accent.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. You got something against flag-waiving with a German accent?
My great-great grandfather, and a number of his relatives, fought against the Confederacy with German accents. There were entire regiments, and most of a corps, that took orders in German in that war.

The only monument to the protagonists in that war within 500 miles of my house commemorates about the only white Texans to fight for the Union. The monument, in a little town founded by Freethinkers about 30 minutes away, reads "Treue der Union", and commemorates several dozen men who were "Gefangen, genomen, und ermordet" for their loyalty to the American nation.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. If you want to go on record as disliking the American Flag that's
your business, but you are wrong. It does bring us together and I fly it because I want the troops home. I respect them and the flag too.

It's the chickenhawk awol asshole I have no respect for.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
54. Once upon a time, all those things stood for the best in us.
The pledge was once part of a grand international campaign of democratic socialism to bring the people of the world together under liberty, justice, and equality for all.

"God Bless America" was written by a Jewish guy when it looked like the future of the world would be a very nasty one.

And the U.S. flag was the same flag that liberated Europe from those nasty little people, as it liberated 3.5 million Americans from enslavement. Sure, it's been desecrated and cheapened by the jingoism of recent years, but we've done some damn cool things as a nation The world still looks up to us for it, enough so that they still believe that what Bush is doing does not represent the will of our people.
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hilzoy Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. As you may have noticed,
Clark has not attacked any of his opponents, except Bush.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Right On!
And I damn well hope he doesn't attack the
other dems.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. That's why I support Clark!
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. Nope. He lets his supporters do that for him.
Dosn't he.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. How Is He Responsible For His Supporters?
He's responsible for himself and his staff..... Less responsible for for his volunteers.....

But how is any candidate responsible for his supporters....
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. Oh yay. Thats right.
We can't hold the Genral acountable for any thing negitive, can we. We like to blaim Dean for that sort of stuff.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. I wish that he hadn't commented....
I don't want Clark to be viewes as a part of the pile on. With that said I'm glad he didn't make reference to pick-up trucks with an obvious dig at Dean.

He kept it civilized and didn't try to make a 1-liner out of it for the media.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Does anyone agree that if Clark didn't say something...
he would get so hammered for it?

Even when he says something, unless it is in 1st
grade reading level, the media acts like "he can't take
a clear stand".

Clark is learning quickly. Pick up on the hot issue. Give
a rapid fire intelligent statement. Stay above the fray.
Move on.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Of course he would be attacked
and slammed for having a poorly run campaign on top of it. Number one to attack would be Elmer Fudd.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Who's elmer fudd?
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Hahaha
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 07:44 PM by OKNancy
Joe Lieberman. Doesn't he remind you of Elmer Fudd?

Here go listen to a few of these
http://www.barbneal.com/elmer.asp
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. However
I fully expect Al Sharpton to have something to say.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Hopefully, he will agree with Clark
:toast:
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Are you kidding...the reason he hasn't
responded so quickly because he will have a statement the size of the NY YellowPages
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. he he
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Pre emption
He would have been asked if he hadn't commented. This way he makes a strong statement without attacking Dean and can move on.

MzPip
:dem:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Clark's learning....
Right now he has yoda on his back doing flips on Daggobah...

He will be ready to face Vader come 2004...
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You're right...
It just takes away from the real issues. I think Dean's statement is a non-event.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. The comment was made BEFORE the flap over the Dean thing.
It was on the flag at the courthouse issue.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Do you have a link and date on that?
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Does anyone know what the other candidates have said...
about the confederate flag on Public Buildings?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. Clark's statement is being distorted over in P&C
I'll give you 3 guesses whose supporters are using it to beat Dean over the head with... :eyes:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I don't know Padraig...
there seems to be a lot of fools (some of them
Dean supporters) twisting Clark's very clear statement
all around in order to bash him (Clark) with it.

They make me want to vomit.
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Woodstock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. About halfway through the alphabet and rhymes with very?
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 08:26 PM by Woodstock
re: Clark's remark, I think he is a classy guy

a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean ticket would CRUSH Bush
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. Sounds like Clark likes to wrap himself in the flag like Bush.
Just an observation. I find this devisive. What's next, pledge of allegiance in schools again?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. How Is Respecting The Flag Divisive?
NT
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Your post is crazy....
sorry, but it is.

This is Democratic Underground, not "hate America"
Underground. Democrats can't win elections by
hating America and burning the flag.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Amen
Sorry but my dad was a WWII vet and I love my country, and I respect my flag too.

I'll bet most of DU respects the flag also.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. huh?
its divisive to repudiate the confederate flag???
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. What is your point...
because you seem confused.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. who is confused?
Can you learn to follow posts. I am asking the above poster if he thinks repudiating the confed flag is divisive.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. I thought Clark would get kudos for this...
but instead he gets a bunch of DU'ers on P and C
twisted his words and lying about him.

I am done with DU for the night.

I am disgusted.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. What's P and C?
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Woodstock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. I think they mean the Politics and Campaigns forum
on DU
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. That is what I meant by saying...
I wish he hadn't commented...damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This is why Democrats can't get ahead in this country. We turn on ourselves. We don't need to fight the wingnuts we need to fight ourselves for the soul of the party.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
44. Yep, Clark will sweep the south.
But apprintly not thoese with confedearate flags on there trucks.

Clark's inclusive new American patritos, still apprintly dosn't include them. Hmm, I wonder if any of them are swing votors?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. How about none
I for one am happy that Clark or any other dem (apart from Dean) isnt looking for votes from people who proudly brandish the Confederate flag in 2003. Why do you think people place that rag on thier trucks? Hint: its not because they love inclusiveness.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. You miss the point.
If they are swing votors, they will vote for Bush, won't they. The whole DLC stratigy is to appeal to the center.

Well gess what, DUDE. Meet your center. Your right, folks who display the stars and bars are not progresive nor libiral. But Clark ain't going after them folk now is he. No sir. He go'en after the swing vote. Them people in that thar center. Them yonder Regan democrats. The pro war folk people who come sower on Bush. Yes sir. Them who Clark is going after. He gona sweep the south, by gum. We ain't after them libirals none. No sir e bob.

So, if the center don't include the rasists, um, who is left? Oh thats right, we arn't intrested in the left. But the center.

Clark just screwed himself big time. And I bet you he's too aragent to even know it.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Uhm, as much as it would confirm your views of Dean
supporters, I find nothing wrong with what General Clark said. I would have to agree with him 100% on this quote.

I love our flag, and fly it also, but I do not always see it as something that brings us together anymore, like it once was, but rather as a PR device the Repugs use. One of the proudest things a young boy scout could do in the 60's (when I was a kid) was carry the flag in our hometown's parade, which I got to do once. There are many Vets in my family tree. I have read and studied the flag code. But sadly, at least around here, it has become the secret code to indicate one SUV driver to another that they are Repugs.

Hopefully Clark, or whomever is the nominee, will put the flag back where it belongs, and not as Right Wing symbolism or wrapped around Bush* and his clan.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Confederate flag is a flag of open insurrection or of a foreign nation
neither type flag should be flown on government grounds in this nation.
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