Who has faced discrimination?

[Booger]

Or even real hardship?

I've lurked for awhile, and decided to finally plunge in. One thing I've noticed is the great passion displayed by many a poster on here.
Knowing full well the ramifications of even asking this, I will nonetheless.

How many posters here have faced nothing more daunting then a summer job? Have you ever had to decide between which bills to pay this month? Can you still make it to work with that one front brake shoe completely gone for another week until payday? Did you grow up in that neighborhood where your house had a couple of bullet holes on the back side? Did you resort to selling drugs for awhile because there were no jobs?
I know where my views come from. I've been knocked down too many times and had to work my way out of it again and again. I know what it's like facing eviction.
I suppose I'm just curious as to what the average life experiences are for other people on here.

[Brucey]

1. When I got out of college I was desperate to get a job.

I interviewed to teach in Flint, Michigan. The interviewer looked at my transcript and said that he didn't think I would be able to empathize with the students because I had never failed anything. I told him that I just failed to get a job, and wondered if that would count. It didn't.

When I worked on human rights, at a public meeting I was asked: "If I call a co-worker a "nigger," under your proposed law could the nigger sue me?" Another person said he thought gays should mind their own business and not try to shove it down his throat. Another said that homosexuals rubbed him the wrong way. To him I suggested that he try talking to them about how he liked to be rubbed. School board members thought that ending discrimination against students would mean that they could use the teacher's lounge.

[FrenchieCat]

2. My black daughter

took dance classes when she was 5 years old. The little white girl who was her partner for a particular dance number wiped her off her hand after holding my daughter's and say....."yuk...black".....

When my daughter told me what had happened, I had to, that day, explain racism to her, my beautiful little girl. That was a sad day for me.....Why? I asked myself....was I being forced to protect my 5 year old by giving her information about herself, her people, the history, and why others might treat her that way.

Painful experience it was. But an everyday ocurrence for many minorities.

Was it discrimination? Yes, I think so. I was "forced" to discuss something I shouldn't have to with my child at a very early age. Parental power was taken from me by a 5 year old white child.
I don't believe that parents of white children would ever feel compeled to have to explain racism to their 5 years old child. Most parents want to keep their children as innocent as possible, for as long as possible.

Therefore, my daughter was robbed of something that others get (innocence)to keep for much longer, due to her race. That sort of descrimination, as small as it may be, can impact the self esteem in a negative way starting at a very young age.... The self esteem of a young girl growing up is central and key to who she may become.

Of course, today she is a very sucessful and talented 16 years old "who's who's among American High School Students", a dancer who has interned with the Alvin Hailey Dance Company, goes to a affluent College Prep school, gets straight A's, Speak, reads and writes fluent french, has spent 4 summers with the John Hopkins CTY (Center for Talented Youth) program (participation based on scoring nationwide in the 97% percentile and taking the SAT at 12 years old and receiving a score bettering 75% of graduating High School seniors)and has travel the world....
(I am bragging.....but hell, She gave me bragging rights)....

So this story has a happy ending. But not because of society, but because I figured out what to do. Many are not so fortunate.

[jiacinto]

3. CTY?

They come to Dickinson College, my alma mater, every summer. They are obnoxious and snobby. I spent the summer after my junior year at Dickinson back in 1999. Those CTY kids were there.

They were so arrogant, immature, and disrespectful of the College and its facilities. They invaded the dorms from the 4th of July until the middle of August.

Maybe I sound really bitter and rude here. But that's how many in the Carlisle area perceived them.

[FrenchieCat]

5. I don't think they are all alike?????

That would be labeling an entire group of kids. Something I tend to avoid.

My daughter has only attended the ones in Loyola Marymount (LA), St. Mary's (MD) and Hawaii.

She's a great person.....who volunteers at the women's shelter every other Saturdays and has done Habitat for Humanity, etc....

She didn't particularly care for her experience in Maryland...said kids came from all over but had particular problems with a couple from Virginia.

[jiacinto]

7. Ok Ok

But the ones in Carlisle drove us all crazy.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Too bad you had no comment on the main portion

of the story I told.:shrug:

[Kanary]

65. my thought, too

" Too bad you had no comment on the main portion of the story I told."

Children being hurt in this way is so damaging. I marvel that it is so easily dismissed.

Seeing your children hurt is even worse than hurting yourself. I'm very sorry both of you went through that. I truly wonder where the soul of this nation went.

Kanary

[DemBones DemBones]

6. You do realize that colleges need the money from

summer programs like CTY, right? And that programs like CTY are for high school kids, who are kind of suppposed to be immature?

But maybe you don't know that gifted and talented kids experience a lot of discrimination? Not only from their peers but from their teachers? When I was teaching public school, I heard other teachers say they'd much rather teach "retarded" kids than gifted ones. Many of them get this attitude across to the gifted kids quite effectively, too.

Summer programs for the gifted, like CTY, or like GHP (Governor's Honors Program) in Georgia are lifesavers for gifted teens. Maybe they inconvenience college students for a few weeks, but they're very important -- and help colleges financially.

[jiacinto]

9. I understand your point

But they still acted in an immature fashion for their age.

I do agree that many "gifted children" do get teased a lot. However, many of them ask for it. And I say this as someone who was a "gifted child".

[FrenchieCat]

11. But they are experiencing

the college life as high school students really, and may perceive that acting immature makes them more like college students. Remember that these are bright kids, but kids nevertheless.

[jiacinto]

13. I understand

I really do. But they do irritate the crap out of the people in Carlisle.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Actually,

my daughter attended her first at age 12.7 years old...so actually that was 7th grade. You can only attend until summer going into the 11th grade. So I can see how things might have gotten trashed!

I am sorry that a group, that I am proud my daughter belongs to, has such a sorry reputation.

Sorry for your school's irritation.

[janekat]

19. Used to get a hard time about the school I went to also.....

"Oh Gawd you went to THAT school. You must be a big snob!" THEN they'd usually turn up their nose at me and walk away in disgust. And they called ME the snob....

[LeahMira]

28. You're kidding!

When I was teaching public school, I heard other teachers say they'd much rather teach "retarded" kids than gifted ones.

I've taught both, and I guess there are pros and cons to each group, but I loved teaching the gifted children. They come up with so many neat ways of looking at the world, and they have so many interests. Just point them in the right direction and they're off!

The thing I enjoyed about the slower children, though, was that you rejoiced with them at the least little gain. It makes you appreciate the small joys in life. Also, some of them are a lot more childlike and have less attitude than some of their age peers. Sometimes that's a relief.

But really... the gifted children keep you on your toes. They are so much fun. I know other kids give them a hard time, but I can't imagine a teacher doing that. What a shame for everyone.

[fujiyama]

15. What's disturbing

about your anecdote is that the white girl's parents must have racist, because children don't have a concept of race at a yound age. She probably picked it up from them.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Of course...

that's how it happens...it's learned behavior. For whatever reason, young kids are very susceptible to itl

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. That's not what racists think.

I was properly put in my place by a racist when I made the comment that racism needs to be learned. He scowled and disagreed. He said that children grow up seeing differences and that it takes brainwashing to teach them differently.

You know, that racist may have a point. Some pre-schoolers are very good about spotting differences in color and you can readily see it when they fight over who gets the blue crayon (always a favorite color among pre-schoolers) and who got the green one. It absolutely DOES take training to teach a child that color doesn't matter.

[Solomon]

41. Bullshit. Children have to be taught racism.

You are neglecting the subliminal. They see who's on the covers of all the magazines and who's more prominently featured on television and everything else. Don't confuse liking different crayon colors, with making distinctions over human colors.

[mzmolly]

61. My 5 year old has not commented on 'skin color'

except when she was two and she labled her dolls as chocolate people and vanilla people, which I did not take offense to. ;)

However, today she plays amonst all color children, and nary says a word.

I think your right, racism is taught. It is taught by parents or peers. And, it should be a crime to do so.

[Karenina]

90. My godson was talking to his mom

about the father of one of his classmates whose skin was so black it was blue! She explained to him that people came in MANY different colors and asked him what other "black" people they knew. He listed several. She prompted him. He listed several more. She prompted him again. "Nope that's it." She asked, "What about Karenina?" He replied in his inimitable fashion, "OOOOOOOHHH, yeah!" My "baby" NEVER NOTICED my skin color until his mom pointed it out to him. The first time I saw him he KNEW my voice (as I'd spoken to him on many occasion in utero). It NEVER occurred to him that his Karenina was "different," our relationship precluded any "difference" from registering until it was highlighted.

At a friend's wedding I was playing with some toddlers as I am wont to do. We had a lot of fun. I hadn't met them before and did not know to whom they belonged, nor did I care. We were running around the fish pond, inventing games and just having a good time. Then DADDY (a colleague of mine) came. "Are THESE YOUR babies? WE had so much fun!" He then pointed out to them the difference in our skin colors. If the boys had even noticed they hadn't cared up to that moment. Suddenly they became very fearful and withdrawn. I was FURIOUS and spent the next hour ignoring the adults and getting us back to where we were running around the fishpond and making up games. I have yet to confront Papa with what he did. Maybe I needn't do so, as the kids in subsequent meetings now KNOW and recognize me as "their" Karenina who is more than happy to play with them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

81. Though I was being partly facetious, there is some truth to it.

It's not just color. Kids have been known to go up to obese people and asks them why they're fat. Some kids do pick up on the differences on their own. But, how they react to those differences is dependant on upbringing. If a child touches the hand of a black child and goes, "yuck", as one poster explained, then you can bet that child has been taught to see the difference in a negative light. But children are curious and some comments are geniunely innocent.

For example, there was one black child in kindergarten that I was giving computer classes to and I noticed that she was gently touching my hair. I think she was hoping I didn't notice, so I pretended not to. It occurred to me that she was just curious. I was just as dark as she was, but our hair looked different. I wasn't offended by it.

I think you should accept that children are naturally curious, and if they live behind gated communities and only see minorities doing menial tasks, they can make some harsh assumptions, especially if those assumptions are reinforced by their parent's bigotries.

[hippywife]

104. Children are great at spotting differences

but not all of them respond to them in that manner you would think. When my nephew was very small, he thought it wasn't fair that the other kids got to be a color and he was just plain old white. ;)

People forget that childred understand and develop a vocabulary long before they themselves speak. And as any other creature, before they understand words, they understand and interpret tone and action.

Racism isn't definitely not inherited through anything but behaviour. People who think kids need to be un-taught racism are correct only in that they learned it early through watching and listening to their parents.

[camero]

32. Way to go on the "who's who" list

My sister made that also.

[noiretextatique]

36. i thank goodness i missed a lot of that

because i spent my early years in a predominantly black community...well, it was segregated. of course, that environment had its particular issues as well, but i do think it did give me a good sense of myself as a valuable person during my most vulnerable years. i didn't become aware of racism until we moved to an integrated community when i was about 12.
i really think my parents, refugees from the segregated south, wanted to forget all about racism...they still don't talk much about growing up in Texas in the 30's and 40's. i didn't really understand the significance of martin luther king while he was alive, but i was very young. and i didn't know that my cousins in Texas were on the front lines of integration at the time...a part of the first groups of black kids going to formerly all-white schools in ft. worth. i didn't know that my grandmother's job as a janitor at the ft. worth power company was considered a great job...for a black person...at the time. i remember going to work with her, and going into the executive offices...perhaps this was my grandmother's way of showing me it was possible for me to work in those offices, while she (and other black people) could only clean them at night. i didn't care, of course...it was exciting for us :D i didn't know my grnadmother's brother was the president of the NAACP in San Francisco, and was a key player in integrating the SF schools, as well as businesses in SF.
i found all of this stuff out after i was an adult...heard about my great uncle's accomplishments at his funeral :shrug: i wish my parents had told me about all of this, but i suppose i understand why they didn't. i guess i had my first inkling of the magnitude of what was happening on the day martin luther king died...the first time i saw my father cry.

i try to model myself after my grandmother...a woman who endured considerable hardships, but who always managed to be kind, loving, and gracious...no matter what.

i'm glad your daughter is doing so well. she sounds like a very talented young lady, with a very promising future.

[Solomon]

38. God you hit the nail on the head. It made me weep because I still

remember scar seared on my soul when I "discovered" racism. I remember the day just like people remember the day Kennedy was shot. I was seven years old in the second grade reading our history book, and slowly it dawned on me as I kept looking at my skin, that when they talked about slaves, they were talking about my ancestors. I am 48 years old now and I don't think anything effected me as much as that day did. Until then I had absolutely no concept of color. Up until then, when I looked at tv I never realized that all the people were "white" and that they were "different" than me.

You can't begin to imagine the mental pain. I grew up in a segregated area, my schools were segregated, so it was quite a shock to learn that you are a "minority". The schools I went to all had hand me downs from the white schools. All of our textbooks had the stamps of other schools on the inside of the front cover. We didn't get them until they were thrown away by the white schools. Everything was second hand.

I wept for your daughter because I know what has happened to her. Anyway, I was a straight A student in school all through my career.
I graduated high school during the thrust of affirmative action and wound up getting into Brown University because of it. Without affirmative action, I would have never had the chance to go there.
While at Brown, after a year of adjustment, I became a straight A student there too. (Yes that's right, for some people, affirmative action is very fitting - it's not always a lower "qualified" minority- back in my day, you needed it even if you were more "qualified"). Having come from an underprivileged area and succeeded in becoming a straight A student at an Ivy League school, you will never get me to bad talk affirmative action. I deserved to be there, but I never would have gotten there without it.

Anyway, I wound up going to a top ten law school after Brown, and after law school, I don't even want to begin to tell you the discrimination I encountered in trying to get a job. All the black candidates used to routinely joke (and it wasn't really a joke) that "the only thing hiring blacks out of law school is the federal government".

I think when white people think of discrimination, they focus on the material part of it, never understanding the greatest damage, the damage that occurs in your soul, your hopes and dreams, the feeling of "what's the use", etc. This is the part of it that whites don't understand. They think it's just a matter of "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" and all that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you can't pull yourself up, it's just that deep down inside, you know that whatever you achieve, it would have been greater if not for the racism that exixts.

White people can trace their families. Most black people don't know their ancestry beyond the grandparents or greatgrandparents.

Look at the culture too. I remember when I was seven and had just learned about the discrimination. They made it seem like it was a thing of the past, and I felt relief at that. But then I saw the hoses and dogs turned on people in the 60's, and the pain, oh my God, the pain.

I remember thinking as a child, "well okay", if we are from Africa, then I will go and find out the accomplishments of the Africans to get my mental bearings. I had seen the accomplishments of the Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Greeks, etc. But when I went to read about Africa, back then all I got was the "they are savage, backwards jungle bunnies" thing. I can't even begin to make you understand the searing pain this caused. I couldn't even go to the past for solace. White people will never understand this aspect of our peculiar system of racism. They see a black in a Mercedes, and its "what are they crying about."

Affirmative action has given whites the biggest benefits. Elevated then economically almost overnight because white women made the greatest gains by far of any "minority". This has produced two professional incomes in a lot of white households making it possible to buy huge houses in gated communities, and to send their children to private schools. Affirmative action is a drop in the bucket and doesn't hurt whites at all. But they cry weep, and wail over losing everything to some black who's not qualified.

Anyway, I appologize. I know this is long and I should stop. But you really touched a raw nerve in me about what your daughter is going through. I weep for her and I weep for all the children because I know what they will go through when they find out. Every so often the scab comes off of that soul wound I got at seven years old. It will never not be there.

[noiretextatique]

42. the federal government...you know this is why so many black people

work for the government...to this day.

[Solomon]

43. Hi Noiretblu!!

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

47. hey there Solomon

:hi: great to see you. and thanks for sharing your story...of course, i can relate all too well.

[Solomon]

48. I don't write too much anymore but I can never resist

a frank discussion on race matters. There's so much to say.

[Karenina]

84. HI Noiretblu!!!! HI Solomon!!!

:hi: :loveya: :hi:

There IS so much to say. I've clicked on this thread 5 times with the intention to contribute and ended up just reading the posts and shutting down. Those who cannot experience it can never imagine the pain it causes. Racism produces nothing but insanity. For those of us on the receiving end there is NO ESCAPE other than death.

It matters not what you achieve, how talented, empathetic, fair-minded, generous, patient, kind, educated, helpful, creative or even famous you are, at the end of every day you retire with at least one incident of having to confront IGNORANT RACIST BULLSHIT. And if it isn't overt it's hidden in the "assumptions of superiority."

I spent my birthday this year doing my taxes. It was a HORRIBLE day and I was totally depressed by the numbers and crying. A neighbor called to wish me a happy birthday. She's a wonderful, esoteric elderly woman whose 2 sons both reside in the States. Picking up immediately that I was a bit "under it" she insisted upon inviting me to dinner. I shared some perspectives with her and told her of one particularly painful experience at an open session with an American member of a well-known band here (from Missouri).

Her response was to tell me how I "should have" reacted. At that point, rather than defending, my inner guide instructed me to be very still and let her talk. She remarked, "I can feel you REALLY listening." Yes, I was. I heard all about how I was too sensitive and paranoid and that his racism was really my fault. I brought it on myself. It never occurred to her that I, who integrated the schools I attended from the age of 7 never to be in a classroom with another "NEGRO" until my senior year in high school, have a multi-racial family, have been the "first" and "only" in more situations than I can count, have been on the "bleeding edge" ALL MY MOTHER-FUCKING LIFE, might- just MIGHT have some ingrained instincts about how to handle the situation. She meant well and I appreciated her concern...

On edit... Q: What do you call a black cardiologist in Georgia?

A: Just another nigger.

NB: Remember Dr. Charles Drew

[Solomon]

96. Hey Karenina! Nice to see you.

Don't worry. The world is changing. We live in a fishbowl here in america. I believe the world is more advanced on the race issue.

Our kids won't have to deal with it as much as we did, just as we didn't have to suffer as much as our mothers and fathers. Integration has changed america.

I know what you mean about carrying the load. You get sick of it don't you. Feels like you're carrying the whole world on your back doesn't it. But it will be a thing of the past. The only way stop the coming justice is to just blow the world up.

[janekat]

53. Solomon - your story made me cry.... so sad.

The sad thing is that I'm sure that millions of kids went through the same thing. It's still going on to this day.

How can we make it stop....

[rasputin1952]

59. The time may someday come...

when there will be no more tears shed over this subject, except in remembrance of a long dead situation of events.

I hope that day will come soon.

:kick:

[mzmolly]

68. Solomon....

I am so sorry for what you experienced. Our society still has a long way to go.

I really resent the history classes they taught/teach in public schools. Imagine how it must feel for Native American children to celebrate Columbus day?! Imagine how it feels for African American children to learn about the hardships of the pilgrims who (sought freedom) and took away the freedom of their ancestors?! *sigh*

I can only hope things will continue to change for the better.

Thank you for sharing your story. I admire all that you have accomplished in spite of the obstacles you faced.

[Solomon]

82. Thank you all for listening. I feel the problem is when you try to correct

the obvious educational bias, whites feel as though they are being attacked. I believe whites ought to be able to openly express pride in their whiteness without being declared racists, if that's what they feel they need to do.

We can't go backwards folks. The whole world is already ahead of us.
Americans are delusional in the sense that we think we can keep playing the divide the colors game. It appears to me that people all over the world have realized that there is only white, and non-white.
The awareness is the antidote to white supremacy. We will either join the human race and act civilized, or we will destroy it.

[election_2004]

98. speaking as a white person...

I don't feel "attacked" when a diverse array of racial heritage is included in an educational curriculum. I view it as an opportunity to learn more about others. And I don't feel a particular need to "take pride" in my own racial heritage, so I'm not asking to be *accomodated* in that respect.

I just wish teachers would quit telling me how I'm responsible for racial injustices of the past, how the continuation of racism is my fault, and telling me how "privileged" I supposedly am even though they know next to nothing about my life. I had to put up with it all through secondary school (from 5th grade on up), except now that I'm a college student I'm outspoken enough that I just don't take it from people anymore.

[Solomon]

110. Excellent. Now this is what I call a good conversation about

it. Thanks for sharing that.

[election_2004]

115. Thank you

I've always been one who appreciates the cultural differences that make us all unique.

I simply don't appreciate it when people (no matter how educated they are) try to hold me personally accountable for the racism of others.

[Cheswick2.0]

85. Solomon, wonderful post

thank you for sharing that story. You made me feel very sad for that little child you were. I agree with you about Afirmative Action. It hasn't hurt white people.

But please don't assume all of us white women have it that easy. We are still fighting many battles. :toast: Here's to coalition, I am on your side where ever possible I can make a difference.

[Solomon]

92. I never said white women had it easy and I didn't mean to imply that

your struggle is over. But when society goes from one black person in law school to ten, then that's very nice. But when one goes from one or two white women in law school to half of the school population, then you can see the greater proportional impact that affirmative action had for white women.

As an aside, I had a white women associate who hated Martin Luther King's birthday. Not because she was racist. She blamed it on his being overrated and his philandering with women. She made it a point to go to work on his birthday, because she didn't approve of the holiday. Whenever she would downtalk King, she'll never realize how stupid she looked since, as a result of him taking all the threats, hoses, and dogs, it became possible for her to go to law school and become a lawyer.

Time has since changed her viewpoint. Martin's legacy just seems to grow larger and larger as time moves on.

[Iris]

52. Frenchie,

white parents do explain racisim to their children at 5 (or younger). If I had a child who did something like that and I knew about it, we would sit down and have a discussion about it right then and there. I'd go even further and take her to the library to find books on the subject and I'd teach her how to treat people with respect regardless of how they looked. I would have insisted she apologize to your daughter.

I think it is natural for a child that age to be startled by the differences in our skin colors. That's the time when parents who really believe in not discriminating will teach their children how to treat others.

[Demobrat]

4. Yes to all of the above.

Before I was 20. Why?

[Booger]

8. Because I've seen it

mentioned here before that many people are self described middle, and upper middle class, white college students.

And while the causes are honorable, I find it somewhat interesting the amount of anger and passion that goes into subjects with no real basis in daily experiences. I'm curious as to the mindset and approach that goes along with it. My politics are grounded in my experiences. I would like input from other people who, for lack of a better way of saying it, are working from theory.

[Joinup]

10. As an unmaried, single father

I had a judge say that because I had not married my son's mother I should have no legal rights regarding him.

Up until 1985 in my state, an unmarried male could not have himself legally named the father of his biological child. He had to ask the mother if she would be willing to initiate paternity proceedings.

Child care providers would look at me funny when they found out that I was an unmarried, single father.

Some people in general, from my church to my family to the workplace and others thought that I had done something wrong by obtaining custody of my son.

[fujiyama]

16. Hard to say about "real" discimination..

As for myself, I was called a "F*ckin ARaab" in HS once, because I'm Indian-American. This was years before 9/11 oddly enough. I personally brushed it off...I was actually amused by his ignorance. I also experienced a bit of racism in school (a few remarks, but it was quite rare), but I didn't take them seriously.

I personally don't know if I've been disciminated against in any real meaningful way but I would guess that after 9/11 people are a bit paranoid still about "brown" people.

[Some Moran]

21. Too bad you don't live here :(

None of the crap goes on at my college: The vast majority of students are White, and the student union pres. last year was Indian.

[Nobody]

50. Paranoid since Sep 11 2001

My favorite Middle Eastern deli is family owned and run by Muslims. They make excellent food and they give you a ton of it at a good price. People from all ethnic groups go there.

I went there on Sep 12th 2001 to pick up a few things I wasn't yet out of, but you can never have too much of their delicious pita bread. They bake their own and it far supasses what you'll get at the chain supermarkets.

The place was packed with other people showing support, just by being there and by buying things. Instead of the usual Middle Eastern music, I heard a talk show voice that sounded vaguely familiar. When I caught a couple phrases, I recognized it as Rush Limbaugh. The owners wanted to know what kind of hate he was stirring up. At that time of day, he was laying into Bill Clinton for causing a terrorist attack that killed 50,000 people.

But about a week later, I read in the local paper about how their store had been vandalized.

They had it repaired. Fortunately the neighborhood has more good people than hateful ones. The last time I was there, they had all the well-wishing cards of support hanging on the wall.

[janekat]

18. I haven't had much myself - but have noticed it happen plenty to others

You have to actually "look" to see it though. THAT is something I fear that most whites don't do. I've become pretty sensitive to it over the last several years because I've seen it happen quite a few times now to black friends, acquaintances and to people I don't even know. These stories don't sound like a big deal to most I suppose - but they illustrate just the regular shit that a lot of people have to put up with every day.

I hate to admit it but I used to be somewhat naive and oblivious to a lot of the "covert" racism that happens in every day life until about 10 years ago. Guess I lived in la-la land (like a lot of people do). It really hit me one night when I was hanging out with a group of friends one night at a bar. We started out with a large group of people and later in the night it was just this one friend (black male) and me (white female).

I noticed that a lot of the people in the bar(I think all of them were white) were all of a sudden giving me dirty looks. I thought "What are they looking at? I look down at my blouse to see if I had a big stain on it or something. I'm thinking what the hell is THEIR problem?" Then I realized that they were all giving us dirty looks because they thought that we were a "couple." It was a bit of an awakening.

THEN, a few months later, during Halloween we had a lot of kids who came trick or treating to our place from Cabrini Green (Housing Project) a few block away. I love Halloween - (handing out candy to kids) and was having a ball - asking the kids what they were dressed as, etc. Then, I ran into my neighbor who said "What are THEY doing here?" "I don't know why they're coming over here?"

I was stunned and told her I was glad they had come and that I had had a ball. That it was nice to see some kids for a change. Keep in mind that these were NOT a bunch of rowdy teenagers but cute little kids dressed in Halloween costumes.

I asked her if she thought that they should have just stayed trick-or-treating at Cabrini Green. She said "Well I guess not." I don't know if I'm overblowing it but when I was living in Chicago there was a huge gang problem at Cabrini and there had been several kids who had gotten shot and killed there over the last few years I lived there. It one of the most violent housing projects in the country. I would hate to see kids go around knocking on doors of strangers there.

I asked one of my black friends if she had to put up with that kind of crap all the time and she said "Yes - I don't even let it bother me anymore." LOL - she was kind of telling me to "calm down."

Ever since then I've begun to notice this kind of crap happen all of the time. I notice that every time I drive on the expressway that gee - what a coincidence... it's always someone black who's pulled over by the cops.

I notice the condescending attitudes that a lot of whites have towards blacks. The dirty looks they give to them. It's not something that I think that a lot of white people notice or realize. We need to start realizing it and doing something about it. It's not acceptable. To be quite frank, I hope a lot of people get their heads out of their asses and start noticing it. I'm tired of having to convince people of this crap.

[REP]

20. Yes to Both

Don't want to get into a pissing match over who had to live in a cardboard box vs a hole in the road, but I've known hardship and discrimination.

As for front shoe out, how about master cylinder out? Been there, done that, got real good real fast at braking waaaaaaay in advance. Am currently able to get out of my car only through the passenger door 'cause my inside latch broke on the drivers side, and then the window control went out! But at least I have a car!

[Vitruvius]

23. Been there -- and learnt how to do my own brake jobs --

and found the cheapest junkyards for parts (the very cheapest one, I could get parts for less if I took them off the junkers myself). I used my then all-too-abundant free time to learn as much auto mechanics as I needed (which was a lot, given the jalopy I was driving).

The two books I found most useful were both by Martin W. Stockel; one was "Auto Mechanics Fundamentals"; the other was "Auto Service & Repair". I got cheap used copies of each (I had an old car, so I didn't need the absolute up-to-date book; also, the basics of auto mechanics are unchanging); nowadays, I'd look at http://www.abebooks.com or amazon.com (abebooks is a cooperative of used bookstores and often has the cheaper copies -- but not always).

I also had the manufacturer's service manual for my car (which I'd bought when I got the car -- before I put 80,000 additional miles on it).

I would get the books if at all possible -- a brake job is one job you really want to do right. But driving with bad brakes is far, far more risky than learning to do your own brake jobs.

Good luck!

Vitruvius

P.S: I'd guess half the people in that low-income neighborhood worked on their own cars -- because they had to. I was low-income at that point -- so I did likewise. It's a survival skill.

[RebelOne]

22. Yes, to most of it except the bullet holes and drugs.

[tedoll78]

24. I experience discrimination every day.

I'm a homosexual.

Aside from that, not much other discrimination. But it still sucks having to pay a lawyer for the different kinds of paperwork giving benefits that one marriage license could confer.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. I'm the fortunate generation.

I experienced a near poverty-existence in childhood, but my father, a brilliant man, btw, made some prudent decisions about where we would be raised so that we never really noticed. Later, there may have been some after-effects but I dealt with them. One of the things that got me through it is understanding what my parents and their parents went through, and realizing that the obstacles that I faced were no where near the adversity that they encountered. I have never forgotten that it is a series of prudent life decisions made by my father and mother that spared me from a cycle of poverty. So I empathize with the poor today, because I know what it will take to get out of that hole, and it doesn't help to have zealots of any kind trying to enforce their flavor of morality or unrealistic expectations.

On edit: You were referring to discrimination and I totally ignored that in my response. Regarding discrimination, I was one of the fortunate ones that benefited with that first job through AA. But I also experienced the backstabbing office atmosphere.

I do want to point out that the examples you used in your post are adversity issues related to poverty. Discrimination is a real obstacle to overcome that poverty. I wish I could say that things get better as you move on up, but unfortunatly, they don't. It would help if minorities were to have social support networks at every income level to help with the transitions.

[Fish Eye]

26. I have you all beat

I have fewer rights than Blacks,Gays,Women you name it and I have fewer rights..

I am branded and can not recieve professional license, voting rights (in some states), although I haev a college degree I can't teach, I can't be bonded...I can't live in public house...get financial aid....the list goes on...

No one is fighting for my rights...

I have a felony drug possesion conviction and even though I did my time I am serving a life sentence of punishment...

All you sad people who feel discriminated because of your race, gender, or sex can take a leap because you all have either legal rights or you have huge interest groups fighting for you....

The discrimination I suffer is legal.

And I wonder why I hate living in the United States of America. This place sucks!!!

[JNelson6563]

30. no one has a choice

what color their skin is or what gender they are born as.

Sure your situation sucks, I hope for change on the matter of the failed war on drugs.

The difference remains, many suffer hardship for things beyond their control. Yours is because of choices you made.

You have more power than you realize though. Maybe you cannot vote but you can organize. You can help campaigns. There is much you can do. I recommend you focus on those things. Otherwise you will drive yourself mad and who benefits from that? Not you.

Julie--who says Don't tell what you can't do, tell me what you can do

[Fish Eye]

40. please see post

below.

I agree but my point is that it is legal discrimination.

The matter of choice is up for debate.

[LeahMira]

33. OK... what do you need me to do?

I have a felony drug possesion conviction and even though I did my time I am serving a life sentence of punishment... All you sad people who feel discriminated because of your race, gender, or sex can take a leap because you all have either legal rights or you have huge interest groups fighting for you....

Well, it doesn't help to minimize the discrimination that others face because, for one thing, it turns off potential allies. When people have to deal with discrimination for whatever reason they are made to feel "less than" or "incompetent" or "bad." The circumstances of discrimination vary, but the way that discrimination feels to the people who face it is pretty much the same.

Some people have refused to accept a "less than" status and have managed to celebrate what's different about themselves (i.e. "queer nation" and "bastard nation"). I'm sure it must be harder for felons, because at some point you made some bad choices and brought some of your problems on yourselves, but everyone has a right to make a fresh start and certainly anyone who does deserves a lot of credit.

You sort of said it yourself... get a group! There are groups that are working for ex-felons to be able to vote. I know because I've seen them at Community Day in my city. Maybe you are the person who is "supposed" to start a group like that in your area. I do have this weird belief that things happen to people for a reason and part of that reason is so you are more empathetic and generous to others who are dealing with the same sorts of things. We are in this life together, y'know.

For starters, though, what can I (average citizen; no special contacts) do to make things easier for people like you?

[Fish Eye]

39. my point was

that the disrimination that I face is LEGAL. It is true that others face discrimination for things they can't change but they have legal protection.

With the exception of same sex marriage who is being legally discriminated against?

No law can ever change a persons bias or tendancy to discriminate but at least there are laws againt discrimination.

Great offer but there really is nothing to do about this situation because in most peoples mind a felon is a felon no matter if they are a murderer or someone who possessed drugs.

I guess that I choose to find alternatives rather than to fight the system. In fact persecution has led to an inner strength and a freedom that I would not have otherwise...I have worked with people in my situation..I hav eemployed and empowered others in my situation...When I grew up I wanted to teach (family tradition) I was told no you can't. I pursued degrees in psycology to help others I was told no.... I have put my conviction on applications for jobs and was told no you can't..

In response to all of this I have: Started businesses, employed and trained others in my position, I serve on community education boards, I home educate our children, I volunteer to work with those less furtunate than myself...

When I look at it my life has been a case of lemonade from lemons but the whole issue of the legal discrimination against me does piss me off.

[JNelson6563]

46. no argument here

I agree with you that this is wrong. While it is the case though, I do urge you make a difference in other ways as I mentioned above.

Encouragement to you--
Julie--who loathes injustice

[Solomon]

83. Once a person serves his time, pays his debt to society,

he/she ought to be restored to full citizenship. Otherwise, why punish them in the first place? There's no excuse for any state to sanction the continued loss of voting rights. It's barbaric, mean-spirited, and makes the justice system a lie. Pay your debt has no meaning.

[LeahMira]

101. Good for you!

In fact persecution has led to an inner strength and a freedom that I would not have otherwise...I have worked with people in my situation..I hav eemployed and empowered others in my situation...

I'm glad that it worked out that way for you, and again, you deserve a lot of credit. It would have been easy to be bitter. You chose the harder way but it's worth it, no?

I guess that I choose to find alternatives rather than to fight the system.

I do understand that not everyone is cut out to fight the system. Some of us are just shy!

Just know that there are folks out there who have chosen to fight, and they need support... even if it's just stuffing envelopes!

Great offer but there really is nothing to do about this situation because in most peoples mind a felon is a felon no matter if they are a murderer or someone who possessed drugs.

ITA. Out of curiosity, though, what do you think about Megan's Law? I think it stinks, and I think it reflects the failure of "the system" to focus on rehabilitation and correction (it is supposed to be the department of correction, isn't it) while "the system" insists on focusing on punishment instead. That's pretty much my criticism of "the system" in general... it's entirely too focused on punishment. That's why we're into an invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and... well, I digress. But what about Megan's Law?

[JNelson6563]

29. Plenty of hardship here

I won't bore anyone with details. Here's a summary:

Have been cold, hungry in the woods (middle of nowhere) with new-born baby.

Have lost both my parents--btw, went through all this as orphan.

Incredible stress for many years, barely making ends meet while raising two babies and strugggling with rocky marriage.

Saved one of two brothers from "the wrong path" while managing burdens listed above.

The happy part begins just a year or two ago. After long years of struggle some security has been achieved. Kids always got lots of love and attention now both play instruments and do very well in school. Hubby and I sometimes look around and wonder how we managed to get here.....

The one thing I remember the most as well as hated the most, the sense of panic. It seemed almost constant. While I'd never want to live through it all again, I wouldn't trade what I learned from it all for anything in the world.

Julie

[camero]

31. I've been through it and it goes on still

I was diagnosed with a form of hearing loss that was supposed to result in deafness partially because I didn't have my tonsils and adenoids taken out at 7. Given a hearing aid from Crippled Childrens at 11. Alot of my childhood and adult years were putting up with quips like, "Huuh, what did you say?" and things like that. A few fights here and there over it and I was quite small. I didn't hit 100 lbs. until I was 16. I also came from a poor family so that had alot to do with it.

I've had people tell me that I could not hold a job because I have a hearing problem. They were wrong about that because when I did find someone willing to hire me, my average stay was 2 1/2 years. The hard part is finding someone willing to hire you so I have had times out of work for 2 years at times.

All this lead to shyness around women as I questioned my ability to be a good husband and make ends meet. They respond to this by questioning my sexuality (immatruity knows no gender).

For one brief 5 year period, I got a job as an OTR truck driver and was able to enter the middle class, buy a house and a good car. I got a house big enough to get my mom and brothers and sister off of welfare.

Then I developed diabetes, and everything fell through the floor. My boss fired me the day I was discharged from the hospital. SSDI took a year and I still was not out of the first step, so I went to work driving a cab. Not the best job in the world but there is no boss to take away your livehood when you are having a hard day with diabetes.

Now, I am in the same spot because I am going on insulin and would prefer not to have a blackout and crash my vehicle, potentially killing someone else or myself because my sugar got to low and passing out at the wheel, so I'm not driving for now.

People everywhere give you a harder time when you are disabled and we can tell the difference, being talked down to by others is just the start. But on the good side, I still have my house and my dogs (who are my very best friends, more so than any human) and I have turned some heads with my accomplishments and some don't look at my disabilities, they say it's my determination that gives them inspiration.

[mzmolly]

64. I am sorry to hear of your illness. My husband is a type 1 diabetic.

He got an insulin pump a couple years ago, and it helps curb the low blood sugar. Also there is an insulin that works like the pump called lantis, that in conjunction with humalog (fast acting) is supposed to work great.

Best wishes to you.

PM me if you'd like more detail.

:hug:

[camero]

73. Thank you for your condolences

I don't have any insurance so I have to go to a private charity for my insulin and they don't treat me very well. I think my doc said she was putting me on NH-7 insulin, which is fast acting in the first 10 mins I believe. I am exploring alternatives, including getting a lawyer for SSDI but I will try to work first.

Thanks again :hug:

[Lurking Dem]

78. I was sent a glucose meter

(BD Logic) which I don't need. You'd still have the problem of buying strips but if you want it, PM me an address and I will mail it to you.

[camero]

79. I have plenty of strips and a meter

You are so very kind. Tell your husband he is a very lucky man, though I'm sure he knows it. :toast:

[Lurking Dem]

97. Aaawww thanks.

And to anyone else out there with diabetes who needs a free meter - first come first serve. Pm me!

[noiretextatique]

34. yes...racial discrimination

and regardless of what some people think, it's not easy to prove INTENT, and i don't think most people bother trying. i have never filed a claim with the EEOC, for exmaple...the process is daunting...but i have been tempted. but beyond the legal definitions of discrimination, it's the more insidious and less easy to prove stuff that one still has to deal with far too often, particularly in the workplace, but in educational environments as well. i was talking to a friend the other night, a puerto rican woman who works in IT. she was talking about how her white, male co-wrokers exclude her from business discussions by prentending they don't understand her...she speaks perfect english, btw. they suddenly "get it" when one of them restates exactly what she said. of course this isn't technically illegal, but it is stressful and annoying. i have experienced this same thing at work, and in graduate school. it's a way of invalidating, or rather refusing to accept, the intelligence and capability of a person. it's funny how similar the behaviors are, and how similar my eperience has been to my sister's, and my cousin's, and my puerto rican friend's. thank goodness i now have a latina woman for a manager.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. You don't have to prove intent if it's a disparate impact case.

Read up on disparate impact cases. They might fit your situation better. Also, you only have to file the original complaint with the EEOC. They can disagree with your cause of action and you could still file a civil case of your own against a private corp. The EEOC just has to give you a Right to Sue letter. You can ask for that letter before the EEOC's time for review is up.

So I've been told. I'm no attorney.

[noiretextatique]

37. thanks, if i have the need again, i will check it out

the last time, there were a group of us, but no one except me wanted to pursue it. felt my case wasn't as strong on its own, so i didn't pursue it.

[bpilgrim]

57. every white guy in america should move to japan for a year...

just not all at the same time ;->

but as one, it sure did open my eyes to the suttle racism that occurs 24/7/365 that when takin on a case by case basis is barely worth comment but in its never ending totality it becomes oppressive at times and you certainly notice it.

i would feel sometimes ok, i get it, i am not part of the group, i am an outsider, cool... i'll be an outsider ;->

:hi:

peace

[noiretextatique]

67. just the other day, i overhead a white woman

talking to a filpino woman who sits in the cubicle next to mine. first of all, her voice was overly loud, and overly condescending. they were discussing some (minor) accounting problem, then the loud woman went to the filipino woman's manager to set up a metting about this problem. when she came back, she said "hello, i'm talking to you" then she clapped her hands, and said "this is how the nun's used to get people's attention in catholic school...did you ever go to catholic school?" the other woman was on the phone, but of course, princess needed her to pay attention to her right then. clearly this woman has some interpersonal commuication issues, but i seriously doubt she would try that approach with any of the other people in the department...except the people she knew who would not challenge her. and of course if i pointed out to her that she was bullying that woman, as she probably tries with other "little brown ones," she would likely deny it. i am a student of human behavior, so i notice this type of stuff and i analyze it (perhaps too much). to her credit, i think the filipino woman just blew off the incident, but i bet she talked about it with her friends and family. this is the stuff that wears on folks...day after day. i started imaging everyone i work with is 5 years old...helps me keep things in perspective.

[Jazzgirl]

76. I have experienced the same thing noiretblu.

I still experience the re-stating phenomenon and it's exasperating. Really pisses you off when someone restates exactly the way you said it! I have experienced most of the original post and still remember the signs over the fountains "Colored" and "White." Guess which fountains were the cleanest. As a little girl, I was very resentful of the differences made between people but my Mom (a teacher) always reminded me not to fall in a trap and not let someone else's attitude control me. I remember walking down the street when I was 16 leaving a store and a homeless man hollered "nigger" at me. He kept screaming it at me. I felt so awful and wanted to crawl in a hole. Then I thought, hey...he's the one living on the street! Why should I let him make me feel down! I don't get followed through the department stores as often as I used to but people still have a tendency to look you over. Sad we're in a new millenium and this still happens.

Jazzgirl

[Samurai_Writer]

44. At various times in my life...

At age 6, I was called the N word by the kids down the street. I lived in an all-white, upper middle class neighborhood. I'm caucasian, but am dark-skinned, and get absolutely black in the summertime if I stay outside. When I was a kid, I was outside all the time. I remember going home crying to my dad about it, who told me those kids were ignorant and their parents taught them that bad word.

At age 12, I was raped by a 20 year old neighbor. I don't know of that counts as 'discrimination', but definitely was emotional and physical hardship. I have been raped three times in my life. If some men didn't have such hatred and were not so bigoted against women, it wouldn't have happened.

I was sent to an unwed mother's home when I was 17 and brainwashed into believing I was incapable of raising my child, losing my first son to the closed adoption system.

At age 18, I left home and got married. By the time I was 21, I was a single mother. I worked 3 jobs for 3 years, and still could not afford even to have a telephone, drove a 15 year old car that was 'willed' to me by my great uncle, and many times had to choose between diapers for my son and eating myself. Then my parents gave me the opportunity to go to college by moving back home. I worked fulltime and went to schoolfull time, graduating in 3 1/2 years with two degrees. I was sexually harrassed by professors while in college, in a time when it was 'no big deal' to the administrators and society in general.

After I got my degrees, I got laid off of my first job out of college (Bush I recession of the late 80s). I spent 5 months on food stamps, unemployment and welfare. When I finally found a job, it was barely above minimum wage. My son and I struggled for many years in near-poverty.

For most of my son's life, his father never paid child support, but still received regular visitation, as I wanted them to have a good relationship, even if his father was irresponsible. It was especially hard when my son was going through the "father worship" stage all young boys seems to go through. But eventually, he figured out who was the parent he could really rely on. He still has a good relationship with his father, but they are not extremely close.

When my son entered middle school, he was attacked by two gang members because he had refused to join their gang. When he entered high school, he was robbed at gunpoint for his coat, less than a block from our house. We had someone shot right outside our front door, and I've been robbed more times than I care to count.

I married a second time when I was 35 to a man who turned out to be a pathological liar, con artist, and sex addict. That portion of my life reads like a damned soap opera. I had to go through all types of STD testing, had to spend a ton of money I didn't have to protect what little financial interests I DID have, and came out of it with a very serious distrust of men that still haunts me to this day.

I've been laid off two more times, but always seemed to find a job just when the situation was about to get really desperate. Now, I am in a great job and my son is grown, living on his own and doing well. The only sad thing is I had to move 1100 miles away from him and my other family and friends to get this job.

With all I have been through, I have always realized there are people worse off than me. I was lucky to have family who were supportive of me, and have never been so poor as to not be able to take care of my child. I think it's made me a very strong, very compassionate person.

[Nobody]

45. Some of the prejudice and discrimination I faced for having XX chromosomes

My first job was at a full-service gas station. A customer walked in and saw me wearing the coverall that we gas station attendants wore. His first words were: "Oh wow. I suppose girls can do the same jobs that people do."

I eventually quit that job, and a couple more jobs later was comparing pay check stubs with a coworker after getting promoted.

He was hired two weeks before me, promoted 1 month before me. We worked at the same job before and after the promotion, having been hired at the same wages and got the same reviews from our supervisor. We were both good at our jobs.

When I got promoted and I saw the size of my raise, I noticed my total was less than what the minimum for the job grade that was posted in the production workers' cafeteria.

I went to HR with check stub in hand and was told that no, that was within the grade level pay range.

I said, no it wasn't, I'll go get the paper to prove it.

The HR person changed her story and said, OK but you're getting a huge jump in pay and according to company policy we have to ease you into your new pay rate.

I asked if that was the case for everyone who was promoted from old position to new position. (I has asked a couple other coworkers if that was the case, they said no, but their raises took longer to go through and it appeared as back pay on a later stub) I told the HR person I wasn't buying that and I wanted my fair rate of pay.

She smelled a lawsuit and capitulated, telling me that yes, I'd get the minimum for the grade level and back pay on my next check.

When the check came in I was getting 3% less than my male coworker.

Incidentally, the company went out of business and part of the myriad reasons was mismanagement. They had the opportunity to get a government contract worth millions. But they failed to convince the government that yes, they do hire women and minorities in large enough numbers. The company was woman owned on paper only. It started as a husband-wife operation and when they grew, the husband agreed to take 49% of the stock with the wife taking 51% so they could call themselves woman owned, but it wasn't their daughter that they made president, it was their son-in-law.

So when the government guy was calling around to various female and minority employees, they discovered: Tech support had two women in it and they both made significantly less than their male counterparts. One was hired in with three guys from the same tech school. She was offered $4000 less per year than they were.

Only caucasions in management.

Two African Americans in the entire company, one was in production.

The Asians were all in either production or repair. None were in any other job.

Naturally we lost the government contract because we didn't come close to obeying the equal opportunity laws.

I concluded from all this that you MUST compare pay check stubbs with coworkers with similar backgrounds, similar seniority, similar work quality. The BS requirement that you not share this info is a tool for them to get away with pay discrimination. Now if I paid less at the supermarket than men, or any other store for that mater, it wouldn't matter. But I pay not only the same, but more in some cases.

Go to any grocery store and check the per ounce for women's and men's deodarant. Ounce for ounce for the same brand and the same scent or lack of scent, women pay more.

The same shirts in the men's dept and the women's dept. Buy the one in the men's dept. It's cheaper.

Incidentally, before all the government contract and pay check stories comes another one. I might not have been hired at all.

The manager, I was told by a co-worker, didn't want to hire any women for his area. He wasn't just the manager, he was the hirer as well. I applied for a job and the interview was a late 80's recital of benefits and the question: Can you life 50 pounds?

Yes, I said without hesitation. At a previous job I routinely lifted 80 awkward pounds and carried those 80 pounds across a room.

After the interview ended, I felt good, the job was a real possibility. I called him back a couple days later on the day he told me to check back if I hadn't heard anything. No, was the answer, we're not hiring.

OK, I said. He told me a date to call back to see if they decided to start hiring.

I did. I called back and each time was told no, call back in about a month. I called back exactly one month later and got the same story.

He was hoping I'd give up or get another job. I didn't, this job sounded like a great way to get experience in my field, so I was pulling out all the stops to get it.

A couple months and a couple phone calls later, he told me to come in for an interview. The hiring decision was now out of his hands, I concluded when I went in and talked to an HR person instead of him. I was hired and given a date to come in.

Looking back, there were co-workers in my area who had been hired before me but within months. They weren't hiring? BS! HE didn't want to hire a female, but he got one anyway when the decision was taken out of his hands.

[rasputin1952]

49. I have been discriminated against, and I have discriminated...

without going into the particulars, every one of us has been down the path of discrimination. Difference is, we feel the discrimination against ourselves, while we rationalize the discrimination we use on others.

Race, religion, sex...the usual suspects, are the obvious situations; but it goes deeper than that. We discriminate against people that do not share the same views we do, we discriminate against people because of the clothes they wear, and the way they present themselves. It happens all the time, everywhere.

I am caucasian, I have been in black and hispanic businesses, where I have been overtly discriminated against, but I have been in many caucasian owned businesses where I have been discriminated agaisnt as well. I, like most people, tended to look at the racial discrimination much more than the discrimination I felt in the caucasian owned businesses.

Point is, it takes a balanced honest look at who we are, and how we treat people. This is difficult to do, and no one likes looking at their own ugly side. It took me many years to realize that I was just as guilty as those I was condemning. At first it was devastaing, but it was an epiphany that has shaped my life. There are plenty of people I know that I am not fond of, but I can no longer look down upon those I do NOT know. That is a huge difference in how I now look at life.

O8)

[Solomon]

51. Beautiful. Simply Beautiful.

Thanks for sharing that.

[rasputin1952]

54. Thanks...

n/t

[janekat]

55. Solomon - your story is also.... please see PM I sent you

n/t

[bpilgrim]

56. i have

i could write a good book :evilgrin:

peace

[Lurking Dem]

58. I would think many of us have.

I can't list them all but, yes, I have been poor, on food stamps, sold paperback books for a roll of toilet paper, went without insulin (type 1 diabetes), went without food to feed my son.

I have been fired for not sleeping with the boss (that used to not actually be illegal for those of you too young to remember such times), asked at job interviews if I intended to get pregnant, and lost a job for getting pregnant (I subsequently miscarried). I have been told I could not be hired because of my diabetes (again, that used to not be illegal).

I was told I got diabetes because I was a sinner and I was a sinner because I was a Jew. I have had to hide in the back of a room when a group of skinheads walked into an establishment I was in looking for some action. I have had to hold my crying son when he was in the 4th grade after being told to "shut up Jewboy" in class and then argue with the principal over their not punishing the offender.

Like most Democrats, I would imagine, no matter how nice my circumstances now, I don't forget where I came from.

[mzmolly]

60. Yes...

Hardships:

* Yes... My first memories are of watching my father beat the crap out of my Mother. When she divorced him, we lived on welfare until my Mom (who dated many questionable characters) eventually married my step father. He was a construction worker/laborer. He was laid off 1/2 of the year many times due to seasonal work. We were dependent on 'the system' for help with basic needs. We lived in housing projects and in what some might call 'the ghetto.' We were surrounded with obvious despair: Alcoholism, drug abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, poverty, etc... Not that these things don't occur in suburbia, but in suburbia at least they are 'hidden'.

* My Mother suffered from mental illness, which meant that she was in and out of mental hospitals on various occasions. Generally we had a bout with 'fun' around the holidays. She also used marijuana very heavilly (which doesn't help one stay well, if you suffer from MI.) In spite of her being stoned a great deal of the time, she was very violent, and went into abusive rages. This was due to her often untreated illness. My Mothers MI (which includes paranoia) meant that we moved on an average 2X per year. My life was totally unstable-to say the least.

Discrimination. Yes, as a woman I have faced discrimination, as I age, even more so. As a poor child, I faced discrimination as well.

And...that's all the hardship I'm in the mood to list today. ;) This is getting depressing.

:nopity:

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

89. boy...can i relate

my father's solution to my mother mental illness was to move. they moved 3 times in about five years...luckily, i was in college living on campus the last time they moved. they finally moved so far outside of LA that i don't even like to go out there to visit. and it was traumatic, to say the least, to grow up with someone who saw giant ants in the house, and thought the people on TV were talking to her. not to mention coming home to her being absolutely terrified...convinced that we'd been swept up by one of the helicopters she thought followed me and my two sisters constantly. i have no fear of hell after death, that's for sure.

[mzmolly]

111. noiretblu-I am so sorry.

It's terrifying for a child to grow up like that. With the person they 'depend' on being totally out of touch.

My mother also 'communicated' with the TV. And became completely delusional at times. She is bi-polar with schizophrenic episodes when she gets 'bad'.

I think mental illness is sooo misunderstood.

Even I have only recently been able to forgive the physical abuse committed by my mother after learning that 'rages' are part of her disorder.

No one 'educates' and or helps the children of the mentally ill, KWIM? The families are left to 'guess' WTF is going on. We are sadly quite 'forgotten' many times.

Thank you for sharing your story. So sorry for the delayed reply, I just saw your post.

Peace

[mmonk]

62. Not real discrimination.

I've been harassed because of the religion I was brought up as (spit on, name calling and things like that), but no discrimination over access to anything I can think of.

[leftofthedial]

63. everyone

I say suck it up and stop whing

[janekat]

66. Hell No! People living in "la-la land" need to hear this....

I'm speaking as one who lived in a "happy little bubble" in la-la land.

If I could I'd post every one of these stories on a billboard. They need to be HEARD.

[leftofthedial]

91. (Psst . . . I was being sarcastic)

that's what Novak said to the unemployed e-mailer yeesterday.

[Nobody]

70. It is our duty to make the world better than when we found it

And making people aware of a problem is not whining.

Is it whining when you point out that your sewer has backed up and you want it fixed? Is the plumber going to tell you that you have to live in raw sewage backing up into your home rather than coming over and fixing the problem>

Is it whining when you point out that you were passed over for a promotion so the person you trained can get it?

Is it whining when you report a crime and the general response is that you shouldn't have gone to the convenience store after dark - and it's January in Alaska and 5PM?

Is it whining to expect respect?

(on edit: had to correct the typo)

[leftofthedial]

93. (I was being sarcastic)

although I do believe everyone experiences discrimination. It is not a minority-, racial-, gender- or ethnic-exclusive phenomenon.

Groups of humans are often "birds of a feather," who treat outsiders with suspicion and mistrust.

[noiretextatique]

72. awareness is a good thing

i think a lot of discrimination happens because people aren't aware of themselves as carriers of discriminatory mindsets and behaviors...it's like a disease. at the very least, if you know you have a disease, like aids for example, you should be aware of it so as not to spread it to other people. "sucking it up" implies that the abnormal is in fact "normal."

[leftofthedial]

94. discrimination is a bad thing

both for the racists, bigots, mysoginists, and others who, in its practice, remain blinkered fools; and for those victims of it who allow it to define their own sense of self identity.

My "suck it up" quote, typo and all, is straight from Bob Novak's mouth yesterday.

[noiretextatique]

107. LOL...thanks for the explanation

:hi: no facts..i should have known. i have little sympathy for racists, et al, btw. i do think their affliction is much like a disease, but i think to some extent, it's a disease people choose because they get something out of it. in some sense, their diseases are socially acceptable...at least in some circles.

[samsingh]

69. i have faced a lot of racism

in your face and very subtle.

on some message boards i cannot even get responses because of the 'singh' in my last name.

[slackmaster]

71. No, but I am expecting to some day because of my age

I'm facing a possible job loss right now.

The fact that I'm 45 years old and accustomed to pretty high salaries adds considerably to my anxiety. I'm concerned that a lot of employers are going to be looking to hire younger people with less experience than I have.

I hope my fear is exaggerated.

[noiretextatique]

74. i have that same fear

i'll be 45 in december, but thankfully, i look younger than i am.
i have a couple of friend's in their 50's and 60's who are having a very tough time finding jobs.

[slackmaster]

77. I too am blessed with a youthful appearance

I still get "carded" for alcohol purchases if I don't dress well.

[lumpy]

75. Being one of the older generation

my experience was one of female gender discrimination. Just grateful it was not racial discrimination. I was paid less than than the men working in the same position (bank teller). I was a single mother at the time. In discussing this pay discrepancy with the bank manager (an understanding boss)at that time, his explaination was that the men were family men having to support their families. I had to remind him that I was supporting my family also with the minimum amount of child support from the father. He went on to say that he had no control over what the parent company policy was, which was true. You have to realize that this was in the late 50s and I could have have been 'let go' if the main office had gotten wind of my brazen questions. I have also been discriminated against as a single woman seeking to obtain a house equity loan (house was mortgage free and I was sole owner) because I had no credit standing, although I shared a common interest with my 2nd husband of many years who earned a substantial living and I was working at the time of application. My years of being a housewife and mother of 4 and managing the family finances was meaningless. This was fairly recently. I managed to get a loan through an independent credit union bank. I have to laugh at the approved offers from credit companies that I receive now on a regular basis.

[lumpy]

80. I have read all of your stories

with appreciation. I feel that I have been fortunate to have lived this life with far less pain than may of you. I appreciate the life I have lived in spite of the ups and downs. I have lived during the days when people of color, ethnicity and religion were discriminated/killed for being who they are or what they believed in. Discrimination is raising it's deadly head again and threatens to become acceptable. The remaining remnants of social discrimination should be stamped out and not allowed to exist in our individual minds. "Never Again" should apply in this social atmosphere, also.

[amazona]

86. yes to bullet holes, yes to discrimination, sigh...

It is quite depressing when you stop and think about your questions. If not for sexual discrimination that included stalking and violence in my past, I know that I would be earning many times my income in the high four figures. And when I look back at my life, it would take too much typing and be too much of a buzzkill to detail all the violence and hassle of being a woman. We even had a driveby at our old place, and we still have a bullet hole that we show off in our old media cabinet. I don't know if there is such a thing as an "average" life experience but lots and lots of people have fought the same battles and it does make you wonder what the point is of repeating the same misery. I feel the best thing to do is to keep a sense of humor and focus on the future. Even if we were too late to be protected from certain struggles, we can work to try to protect others. For instance, stalking and violence of the kind I faced in the early 1980s is now illegal; when it happened to me, it was literally unsafe for me to continue working because the police said they could not arrest my abuser unless I was actually killed or severely injured -- "minor" assault and being followed by a large man threatening rape did not seem, to them, to be the province of criminal courts. It took a lot of women and a lot of lawsuits, and yes, a lot of publicity to cases of women being tortured and killed, to get something done just about this one form of keeping women out of the workplace.

[Kanary]

87. absolutely right

" It took a lot of women and a lot of lawsuits, and yes, a lot of publicity to cases of women being tortured and killed, to get something done just about this one form of keeping women out of the workplace."

All those women who had the courage to go to court paid a high price for it. I'm very grateful to them, and appreciate every single woman who has fought.

I also appreciate all the women who suffered and were unable to fight. We all have only so much gunpowder, and when it's gone, it's gone.

Thanks for your eloquent post!

Kanary

[Karenina]

88. I hear your sigh...

(((BIG HUG)))

[rasputin1952]

95. It has been a terribly long hard fight...

but finally, some progress has been made.

Fighting for the rights of those that have historically had few, is an incredible uphill battle. It is shameful that protections and rights for women and children have long been neglected. For all of the laws howevcer, it is still imperative that we have people that obey those laws and know that they will be punished if they break them. This is where society comes in, for without society changing, all the laws in the land will be just words on paper with no weight.

Legal change is often slow, but societal change is downright glacial.

:kick:

[election_2004]

99. my life story...

When I was in elementary school, I was harassed on a daily basis by peers for a number of reasons:

1.) I've always been unathletic, was never good at Physical Education - - and, in my community at least, boys were expected to excel in Phy Ed and play kickball at recess.

I found out later how my doctors theorized that part of the reason I had a performance defiency when it came to physical activity might have been because, when I was born, my mom's ambilical chord was wrapped tightly around my neck cutting off my air supply, and if the doctor hadn't cut the ambilical chord and saved my life when he did, I might be either dead or stricken with a severe mental/cognitive dysfunction today (I really don't care to use the "R"-word).

2.) I was extremely intelligent (not bragging, I just excelled academically), and that caused my classmates to view me as "a nerd" and they thought I was "spoiled" because I didn't have many friends and I didn't socialize in the same manner as the other kids.

As I found out in my mid-adolescence, I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (for those who are unfamiliar with the term, do a quick Google search and you can find tons of information on the Internet about it), which has always hindered my ability to socialize in a "normal" way. Before this diagnosis was made, however, my parents just thought I was a "spoiled" unreasonably demanding kid.

Additionally, I was constantly the target of schoolyard bullies, both verbally and physically. When I told my parents about it, they simply concluded that I let myself be pushed around too easily and that I apparently made myself "an easy target."

While most of the students in our school district were white, there is a sizable percentage of students with Ho-Chunk heritage in the area where I live, and many of them would constantly throw verbal slurs at me and my classmates related to our fair-skinned pigment and how that made us somehow inferior to them.

3.) If it wasn't already bad enough that I was harassed by peers, my teachers also could sometimes be a real pain. Many of them treated me as though I was an extraterrestrial - - because I didn't drink my milk a certain way, because I didn't like to go outside for recess, because I didn't have good social skills, because I watched too much TV, because I wouldn't go swimming, or because I didn't like Dilly Bars, etc./etc./etc., whatever stupid reason they would find to single me out. Granted, some of my teachers I really liked and really liked me, but others were downright horrible.

Starting in 5th Grade (which was incidentally the age at which I began becoming politically-aware, probably because it was the year of the 1992 presidential election) and all through middle school and high school, I had to constantly hear from various teachers how "we" (referring to the predominently-white majority consisting of myself and my classmates at our school) mistreated black people, stole land from tribes, abused the environment, and oppressed anyone who didn't look like us. Hearing this on a regular basis made me feel extreme self-loathing and worthlessness, driving me to contemplate suicide at times. And this was before I had even developed pubic hair!

When I got to middle school, the "white guilt" from teachers continued and never stopped (ironically, every teacher who perpetuated this attitude was also white).

But the harassment I experienced from my peers became increasingly physical (the verbal harassment had already escalated to an intolerable rate). When I talked with the guidance counselor about my experiences, she was horrified at hearing what I had to endure on a daily basis. When she share the information with several of my teachers, apparently they felt that I was being "too sensitive" and "taking things to heart."

Middle and high school were the years where I began to be socially persecuted due to my sexual orientation. While I never actually admitted to my peers that I was gay (mainly because I was in denial about it myself at the time), most of them could tell I was a homosexual due to my mannerisms, voice, and "feminine" interests. To make a long story a little less long, I never heard the end of it. People were repeatedly asking me if I was gay or if I got erections because they obviously wanted to make me feel worthless (and it absolutely worked). This was something I could never confide in anyone about, not even to my parents (they are conservatives, and it was inconceivable that their only son could POSSIBLY be gay).

Today, I have no shame about my sexuality, and don't take shit from anyone. Unfortunately, my experiences growing up have turned me into a hateful and bitter person, and I have been emotionally tarnished for a lifetime because of the way I've always been singled out for being *different*.

[The Backlash Cometh]

100. Misfits R us.

Well, we have something in common, afterall.

[LeahMira]

103. Hate to tell you, but...

... everyone faces some sort of discrimination in this country, and while the specific "reasons" are different the damage to the human spirit is the same.

Why do you think that the Christians are now claiming that they face discrimination? Fear. Doesn't look like fear, but that's what it is!

We live in a meritocracy where people's feelings about themselves are linked with their material success. We also live in a competitive society where there are a few "winners" and a whole lot of "losers." In order to get ahead, people feel that they have to distance themselves from one another and they have to come up with "reasons" to separate themselves from the crowd... based a lot on what they are afraid of having happen to themselves.

I wonder why we think we have to "get ahead" of anyone?

[noiretextatique]

106. meritocracy?

please explain george w. bush's pResidency in this 'meritocracy' you speak of...thanks.

[election_2004]

108. And what would that be?

n/t

[Solomon]

112. That was great 04. This is the way we should be discussing our

racial problems. I know all too well what the mental thing does to you, from the other side of the fence.

[jobycom]

102. I've had both ends, though no drug dealing

Grew up in poverty in Mississippi. We used to fish for food, collect stamps, work odd jobs as a family at the local church for extra money. My two brothers and I slept in the same roach-infested room. Both of them sold and did drugs, but since it destroyed both of their minds to the point where one is an invalid, I stayed away from the crap.

When I was twelve my father got a good job on the oil rigs-- ironically for Zapata, George Bush's company. Things got better then. For a couple of years I went to a private school, and saw the other side of wealth. Wasn't impressed, but I did like the cars they drove.

On my own I married at twenty, made decent money, then gave it up for grad school. I've often gone a week feeding a family of three on $20 while driving a car with brakes digging into the metal. Had to learn to fix things myself because we couldn't afford someone else to fix them. But it was voluntary, since all I had to do was give up school, which I did after six years. BTW, I paid my own way through school, working part and full time jobs, because my parents had once again gone into low-income mode, as my father tried to run his own business (a worm farm).

As for discrimination, I was thrown out of a restuarant in Mississippi when I was ten because my hair was long, and that feeling stuck with me. I watched my brother have to choose between his two best friends, who were black, and several new white friends who would not tolerate them. He made the wrong choice, and that was part of what caused the drug problem to be so bad. I chose a black a roommate at Mississippi State (who has since appeared in AOL commercials), and caught a lot of flack over it, though at the same time a lot of rednecks surprised me by accepting it. Never think you understand someone just because of where they come from or what they drive.

The other side of discrimination is one that keeps getting brought back home to me here at DU. Being a southerner in the early 70s was not easy. You were told by Neil Young that you were trash. You were told by the national media that you were trash. You got to see troops march into your home state. If you were like me and knew that your neighbors were wrong, it still hurt. You also watched a northern world dominate television. I never saw snow at Christmas and watched people whine on tv that you had to have snow for Christmas. That's minor, but it's less minor than it sounds to a child. I was constantly shown on television and on radio that I was an outsider, and trash, and stupid.

You want to know why a lot southern whites fly that damned flag? That's why. They are cast out by American society, and rather than let that crush them, they fight back with rebellion, including that flag, which is a symbol of rebellion and self-pride. It's NOT about racism to 90% of those who fly it. I understand the other side, and wouldn't fly it myself, and I even see red when I do see it flown, but I see the other side, too. Isn't that what being a Democrat is all about? You have no idea how much Dean just won my heart, and how much appreciation he will get from white southerners if he sticks to his guns on this one. And the more they appreciate him, the more they will hear the rest of his message. I wasn't a Dean supporter before, and I think I just realized that the reason I haven't liked ay candidate so far is because none of them spoke to me as a southerner, which meant none of them was inclusive enough. Maybe Dean just did it. Too soon to tell.

Anyway, that's my story. Also, I'm an atheist and a vegetarian and a pacifist and a gun-abolitionist (after watching a dozen of my friends and neighbors die to those things), and I live in Texas, so you can guess that's hurt me. I understand that's not the same as being black in America, but it gives me insights, anyway. I've lost friends because of my atheism, especially, and might lose my job soon partly because of it.

[Solomon]

113. Damn that was great.m I love the way we can discuss these things

without yelling at each other. After a while, I could clearly see the mental damage that white males had to endure when non-whites began standing up to be counted. It was not meant as a knock against whites, but a claim by others to be included in history. So that they could heal the mental scars.

Unfortunately, it was cast that way and I understood what the white male was feeling. That's why those of you who know me here on DU know that I've always said that whites should be able to express their pride without being considered racist for it. It's great to finally be able to talk about it.

[hippywife]

105. I have experienced

discrimination of a sort all my life since I was chubby as a child and have always remained that way. Thankfully, my father instilled in me the fact that I have value as a person regardless of what others say or do.


I was unemployed for 9 months last year due to a layoff. It was difficult but I have been spending the last few years of my life making myself downwardly mobile. Getting away from the trappings of materialism and find that I am much happier this way. :)

[cosmicdot]

109. did you expect Easy Street for Democrats?

I'm been down so long anything looks up to me ........ I've done so much with so little for so long, I can do almost anything with nothing.

living with disability ... the story deserves a book vs. a post

need dental work in the five digits and don't have the means to just have it done all it one stretch

Don't vote Republican!

[BuckeFushe]

114. Age discrimination

Was "laid off" from a well-paying management position because of "bad times" but 4 months later, the company had filled the position with a kid in his late 20's (who was working for peanuts because his dad's company went under and he had a "book" of business to bring to the party). Owner said "sue me you can't aford it, and I can make up anything I want to bury you". The guy died 4 months later. Silent justice.

Went on 3 job interviews after that and was turned down for the jobs even though I was qualified. Later found out the key word for "youth" in a job ad is "energetic", and those positions had that one simple word in the ad. Being grey and far from my youth, I should have figured it out sooner, or not even gone.

Free Trade/Jobs going overseas/The Economy/Unemployment/WMD lies/9-11 lies/Americans dying in Iraq/No hope of support of the UN in Iraq/Energy Deregulation causing blackouts/The Patriot Act/the re-occupation of America/shock and awe applied to the enviornment="MISSION UNACCOMPLISHED"

[1songbird]

116. From the first day of school and on.

I've experienced enough racism and sexism to last a lifetime. I grew up in rural Alabama in an extremely segregated community where the boundaries were literally defined. I remember a bridge that the Klan marked as KKK to ensure that blacks stayed out of their communities. My first personal encounter with racism occurred on my first day of class in the first grade when our teacher decided to split us up in several groups for games. She appointed two little girls and one little boy to select members of their groups.
When no one picked us (the black kids), our teacher asked the group leaders why and one little girl said that they did not want any blacks on their team. This was the first time that I felt different and not accepted, unfortunately it would not be the last.

[foreigncorrespondent]

117. You pose some interesting questions...

...not all of which I can answer, simply because I come from a different country with a different climate all together, but nevertheless I do want to answer the ones I can.

How many posters here have faced nothing more daunting then a summer job?

Never had to have a summer job when growing up. Our month long summer holidays were usually spent down at the beach.

Have you ever had to decide between which bills to pay this month?

I am having to decide that and more at this current time.

Both my partner (Sapphocrat) and I are unemployed. We also live in two separate countries. Right now I have my school fees and car registration (which has run out) to pay. I also am having to face finding a new place to live by early next year, but without money this has turned out to be a rather hard task.

Can you still make it to work with that one front brake shoe completely gone for another week until payday?

Hell! I don't even have a job, but I am unable to drive my car right now to any job interviews I might land because of the fact it is out of registration until I can raise the $370 needed to pay it.

Did you grow up in that neighborhood where your house had a couple of bullet holes on the back side?

I grew up in a poor neighbourhood, but there was never any shootings. Spousal abuse and child abuse were the worst things I saw.

Did you resort to selling drugs for awhile because there were no jobs?

Not at all. No matter how tough things get, I would prefer to starve than selling drugs to make ends meat. It is dirty money, and I don't want to have any connection with it.

[MI Cherie]

118. Yes ...

... hired for a three week purchasing agent contract. Went to work at the end of the interview — "Can you start right now?"

I was given a courtesy interview for the permanent job. Was told that I didn't have the "b@lls" for the job! Then they kept me on for eight months to train the new GUY.

[undergroundpanther]

119. Discrimination

I have been chased by a bunch of teenager knife weilding fundamentalists in my own neighborhood,for being openly pagan. And I have been beaten and intimidated for years in school for among other things..being bisexual and transgendered, having bucked teeth,and a Native American father.I know discrimination comes in many forms and it has plenty of rationalizers in humanity on many different"sides".Collective stiugmas can be directed at anyone deemed a useful"poison container" or scapegoat for whatever reason the bullying fickle crowd finds when it needs to prop itself up and feel superior..
Racism is systemized bullying done because of race.
Sexism is ststemized bullying done over gender.
Homophobia and trangender hate is bullying based in hate of didfferent forms of sexuality other than socially pushed hetero.
People bullying people is a huge many faceted problem with humanity in General IMHO.

Bullying can effect anyone for a billion different 'reasons'.Iy hurts people who are attacked by bullies deeply and it effects how they see the world after being bullied too. Any society that tolerates and encourages these social bully-type stigmas,in kids or adults encourages a anti-social-competitive hierarchy and scapegoating mindset too..Peiople who go on pretending as if some people are superiors while others are inferiors,as if such beliefs are"normal" or even rational, damage societies from the heart,psychology,and spirit.


Humanity in general is distraced by isms it fails to look squarely at the underlying bullying going on under the labels and flavors called of racism or sexism..People who focus on any bullies rationales for what a bully does will be distracted from what is going on underneath the bullshit which is that someone is being abused.

It's those Bullying tendancies inside us borne from insecurity and fear in us and present in people that's the problem.
Bullies who seek to corrupt relationships in thier own favor do it because they are not socialized to handle concepts like equality,they are horribly insecure,controlling they have an empathy problem too.
Bullies can be sociopathic in a mild way so they NEED others to follow "norms" and believe in excuses for stigmas like "the Bell Curve"or "god hates fags" because they are terrified of differences, scared of by not being dominant or in control of others lives and shaping thier perceptions of abusers in thier own narcissitic favor.

Isn't the colonialist mindset,that wipes out indigious communites,and usurps everthing it touches nothing but large scale socially sanctioned bullying and burning and pillaging of another scapegoated population under the guise of war? Why do we let leaders lead us into wars,why do we obey abusive bosses at work? Isn't the game of economics the distribution of wealth dominated by those who have more than others a basic inequality tearing us apart so that a few bullies can have an empire built on our backs when we sell out our own integrity and compassion for food or a job rather than attack the very insane class social structures and wrongheaded beliefs that create this very real situation of inequality that makes us have to obey a bully and keep him in control?

Look at the hierarchical assumptions ingrained in our human cultures.A game of getting on top or bottom.It's this insane inequality beliefs driven by bully mindsets on top . Sometimes I feel the bullies among humanity make our culture act this way,unconsiously.It's like we all got stockholm syndrome.We compete against each other for what we all need .Is it because it is how bullies prefer it because it lets them dominate and control others without being detected and accused?People who are hurting because ofthe choices bullies make to abuse them inaverdantly strike out at the bullies percieved enemies and support one set of bullies to fight another. They don't look at what really opresses them because it looks"normal" or it's enconced as"powers that be".So it never gets changed.

Anyone who is dominated and disempowered as a victim of a bully ,each person's unwanted wounds are valid as any of the others. A white guy scared of losing work is as scared as a black guy who can't get work. Nobody looks at the corporate CEO who is ex0ploiting thousands and realizes how unjust,inequal,unrealistic,and wrong this pryramid scam is.

Being chased by knife waving teens for being black hurts as much as being chased for being pagan,transgendered or for having buckteeth.
When any person is being chased by a gang of bullies wanting to hurt them..That act is what is wrong._The bullies rationalizations do not matter_.

The bullies reasons for being so cruel to someone dosen't matter because a bully can change his "reasons" .He will use any excuses as long as he can keep on bullying people.Isn't it weird how bullies cry victim or say they don't mean it when the bully is caught abusing,and the bully runs to political,sympathizers,syncophants, or professional allies to cover for him? This sad and universal sick social dynamic has been our collective human problem that is so exploited.. for millenia.

Society as a whole needs to question this whole superiority/inferiority trip it's on.
Sometimes I feel racism,sexism,stigmas and scapegoating is nothing but a way of the hurt people to get taken seriously and heard by people who would rather stigmatize than empathize. All these isms do is cover over the bullies root desire to dominate,disempower,silence,dehumanize,and destroy different people for who they are and steal land esteem,creativity,or wealth,from them.
Or make them be like the dominator is and submit.

Bullies are the biggest most deeply entrenched problem of all of humanity ,rthe other half of this problem is the humans who vicariously benifiet from and enable the culture that keeps the bully company and supports bullies and the intellectual bullies who rationalize thier hatred of different people in sanitized self serving ways.
There is no such thing as"normal" Alot of social norms (like sex,dress,what a "family" is or how you see yourself in your culture, are warped inventions of Eugenics, humanity has internalized..until it looks 'normal'


Truth is as people we all are equal beings,(And I think as human beings deep inside we KNOW this,we just pretend other wise. We all are vunerable we all have needs,and we are each unique,and different, and difference does not make a person less worthy of love,freindship,respect or empowerment. It is the bully in us and around us who want fellow insecure people to believe and act upon that monsterous lie of making superior and inferior people.What sort of self-other-empathy stunting do you have to do to dehumanize someone to the point of scapegoating them? And Why is it so precvalent and unconfronted in our culture?
There are no inferiors or superiors among people in this world..
Just differences.

Some differences are compatible once understood.Others like acting like a socialized sociopath aren't compatible with any human society.
Being abused marginalized,hated and scapegoated by bullies who are not confronting thier own stunted empathies makes you want to murder your tormenters. How much of crime is because people are dominated and sell themselves out in this society day in and day out?

[Hep]

120. Standard middle class guy

Never had to worry about much.

About the worst is being picked on in the playground for being a white kid in a relatively latino school for about two years, but I've never felt oppressed or anything.

[otohara]

121. Sued Clear Channel For ADA & Age

what a nightmarish experience that was.

[HEyHEY]

122. Yup

I was living in a real separatist area of Quebec. Most of the people were amazingly nice to me (I'm English)

But every now and then, you'd go into a pub and be served last no matter how long you were in line - because you were english.