Gep & Dean Smackdown

[crissy71]

Anybody who was there know what happened?

http://salon.com/news/wire/2003/10/29/dean_gephardt/index.html

Democrat Howard Dean's presidential campaign complained to rival Dick Gephardt about an angry confrontation between staffers at an Iowa event.

The incident occurred during a Gephardt speech at a Des Moines, Iowa, senior center Tuesday. A Dean campaign worker got into an altercation with members of the Gephardt staff and was escorted from the event, according to Rod Boshart, a reporter for The Gazette, of Cedar Rapids.

[9119495]

1. I wasn't there but

it is getting nasty in Iowa. Gephardt is dropping nasty literature about everyone and people are starting to take things personally. And there are still months to go. Hopefully all will heal by this time next year.

[lovedems]

4. Are all the candidates getting nasty or just Gep?

Is he dropping nasty literature on all the candidates or just Dean? I was just wondering because if he is the only one playing dirty like this, it will make me lose even more respect for him. (as you might figure I don't have cable!)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. Do you know why Gephardt is pissed at Dean?

Dean ran Vermont as a conservative, pro-corporate governor, then has the nerve to call the other candidates Republican-Lite. Meanwhile, Gephardt has a consistent record as a progressive, pro-labor Democrat, and gets smeared by a truly GOP-Lite candidate like Dean. I'd be pissed too. When it comes to fighting for Democratic values, Dean isn't worthy to tie Gephardt's shoes.

[Hep]

18. Geps been doing a great job

I've never felt so good about being a liberal in America thanks to Gep.

[janekat]

19. Yeppers - it's a shame...

and the same thing goes for Kerry. There's a lot of manipulation and hypocracy going on in the Dean campaign...

[Hep]

23. so much in fact

that you didn't name one thing.

[CWebster]

26. Well...they blew it when they had the chance.

gambled on the political stakes and lost.

[TLM]

100. You know if Kery and Gephardt were running 3 years ago...

They'd both be in great shape, but you are right, they gambled and lost. They have great progressive records, up until 3 years ago, when they sold their souls to bush for what they thought at the time would be great PR they'd need to win now.


They were playing by the old rules, trying to kiss ass with Bush and support Bush on the war because they thought they had to do so in order to win in 04. They bought the BS that the whole nation was in love with W, and they tried to get a little of that W magic to rub off on them.

And they did... only to find that instead of magic, they'd gone and got themselves tainted by the stink of Bush's bad policy.

Now here comes Dean and he's changed the rules on them... Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean. He changed the rules and turned their attempts to buddy up to Bush against them. He has done and end run around the standard insider methods of running a campaign... so not only is he winning by a lot, he has no need for all the special interests that Kerry and Gephardt and Lieberman and Clark are beholden to.

These insiders are watching the power structure they've been working for years, suddenly falling apart right underneath them. So of course they are angry and frustrated.

[RetroLounge]

86. Yep, especially when you view the fact that Dean

voted for the war in Iraq and then Dean stood next to Bush in the rose garden and supported the war.

Oh, wait, that wasn't Dean was it?

It was (respectively) Kerry and Gep, right?

[TLM]

103. Lieberman and Gephardt ... were the two in the rose garden pic

I think Kerry was busy that day getting his pink tutu dry cleaned.

[TLM]

94. Bulshit....

"Dean ran Vermont as a conservative, pro-corporate governor,"

Yeah that must be why one of the most liberal states in the nation elected him for 5 terms straight.

You bashers keep trying so hard to label Dean a conservative, even as DUers from VT tell you you're full of crap. Dean was not anti-business nor anti-development, and for that you people try to label him as a pro-corporate conservative.

There is a big difference between pro-corporate and simply not anti-business.

And if Gephardt wasn't so damn busy voting for Bush garbage like no child left behind, the IWR, and the patriot act... maybe he'd have a leg to stand on. Gep has spent the last 3 years being just another spineless dem... it wasn’t until Dean stepped out front and took all the heat for criticizing Bush, that Gep followed and started attacking W.


All these power elite DC insiders who spent the last 3 years playing the kiss ass game because they thought that is what it would take to win in 04, are pissed off that Dean has done an end run around their power hierarchy. They’ve been playing the game and waiting for their chance, and now Dean is changing the rules just when it was their turn. I don’t think for a minute that Gep wanted to vote with bush and support bush… but he thought he HAD to in order to win. And now that’s not true, now it is hurting him.

These guys, Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman feel entitled to this, but they are watching this race going to an outsider who hasn’t put in the ass kissing time they have.

[blm]

21. Care to see who STARTED this nastiness?

"First phone attack

Straight-talking Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean is testing his attack message in Iowa. Political operatives say Dean's phone polling is probing for weaknesses in support for Sens. John Edwards and John Kerry and Rep. Dick Gephardt. For rookie pol Edwards, it's about experience. For Gephardt, it's his alliance with Bush on key issues. Questions about Kerry test Iowans' reaction to his vote backing the war in Iraq."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/030512/12whisplead.php

[Hep]

27. yes yes we know

Attacks with truth are exactly the same as attacks with lies. We got your point.

[sangh0]

35. What is truthful

about calling people and saying you're conducting a poll, when the truth is you're spreading information?

[TLM]

97. It was a poll.... to see if Gephardt's support for Bush's agenda hurt him

The only people calling this push poling were people who were desperate to find something to attack Dean with.


As I recall somebody posted the text of the questions that were asked and they were not push poll questions.

[sangh0]

122. You expose the truth unknowingly

Poll questions are supposed to be free of value judgements. Suggesting that Gephardt supports "Bush*'s agenda" demonstrates that it WAS a push-poll

[CWebster]

36. Wouldn't havr to poll anyone to know that

[TLM]

96. Same broken record....

Apparently asking someone how they feel about Gep's voting record is a horrible unfair attack. Dean might as well have just accused Gephardt of killing puppies and having sex with the corpses.


How dare the Dean camp ask people what they think about the FACT Gephardt supported Bush on the war and was basicaly fighting with Lieberman for the best "I support Bush" photo op.

[Skidmore]

29. I live in Iowa and I hate to see this happen...

Gep right now is like Lieberman--he thinks because he's been around for so long that it's time to be anointed. I'm very undecided now and would really like to see a few more drop out at this point and this party to acquire a bit of focus in its message and EVERYONE needs to stop castigating others. Stop acting like R's and start behaving like a party for all people!

[Larkspur]

2. Gephardt's campaign is like a drowning man

Gep spent more money in the 3rd quarter than he took in and his fundraising is the pits, despite all his union endorsements.

Gephardt is desperate because if he loses Iowa he has not hope anywhere else, and if he wins Iowa, he'll be broke.

[Hep]

3. It doesn't help

that "Powder" is a flat out liar, an unrepentant subscriber to the right wing ideal that if you lie enough it will become true.

[TLM]

104. ANd DEan is getting unions that Gep thought he had locked...

Dean got the painters union.

[sangh0]

5. Question for Dean supporters

What was the Dean staffer doing at the Gephardt event? I'm not asking in a general way (ex. "He was doing what all the campaigns do", etc) I mean, exactly what did he DO? Gephardt's staff is saying the Dean staffer was "beligerant". What exactly did this staffer do that was "beligerant"?

Does anyone know, or have we all come to conclusions in absence of the facts?

[VermontDem2004]

8. ......

It is common practice among campaign staffers to attend events for other candidates so that they can report on what opposing candidates are saying, said Dorie Clark from the Dean for America press office.

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=10323&sd=10/30/03

That is why I guess, to keep up with what the other candidates are saying, I imagine that the other candidates do this as well.

[sangh0]

11. ....

Thanks, but no thanks. I specifically asked for details concerning actual ACTIONS. "so that they can report on what opposing candidates are saying" is a MOTIVE, not an ACTION.

Gephardt's staff says the Dean staffer was disruptive. I am asking what this Dean staffer did that was disruptive, if anything.

IOW, I asked "what" and you answer with "why"

[VermontDem2004]

12. I see I misunderstood you

I actually have no idea what happened.

[beyurslf]

24. If you want to know what the Dean

staffer did that was disruptive, then ask the people who said it. You addressed your question to Dean supporters, but it was Gep's people who said it. Ask them for clarifying details, and then confirm that info with Dean.

[ModerateMiddle]

10. from reading several accounts

it seems that the first problem was the Dean guy talking on his cell phone from a fairly prominent place during Gep's speech. The next issue was the Dean guy "squeezing out" some of the press during the mini press conference afterwards. He admits he was asked to moved, did in fact move, and then came back because he didn't like where he had been "moved to". The "press avails" really are for the local/national media folks to interact with the candidate, and the choice spots OUGHT to go to press, not "monitors" from competing campaigns.

Here's where it gets tricky. The Dean guy had a tape recorder. He, I suppose, was taping the give and take between Gep and the press. However, he does NOT have any of the exchange between he and the Gep staffers on tape. Why not?

Everything is sort of typical in the exchange until - the claim is made - that one of the Gep staffers called the Dean guy a "faggot". The Gep camps says that the allegation is some sort of "dirty trick". Whether or not anyone was "shoved" or called a derogatory name is in dispute.

Two other undisputed facts: The Dean guy just moved this past week to Iowa from VT to work on Dean's campaign, and he had been at two Gep events in the previous two days without incident.

[sangh0]

13. Thank you, thank you

THAT'S what I was asking about. If those details are true about what the Dean staffer did, then I'd say he was in the wrong, was disruptive, deserved to be tossed, and the Dean team should apologize for that. If Gephardt's people reacted the way the Dean guy says they did (ie. called him a "faggot") then the Gephardt team should apologize. However, it is odd that this guy taped everything BUT the one wrong thing he claims the Gephardt team did.

[VermontDem2004]

16. I have no idea what went down

But this is very possible, he could've kept the tape recorder on during the Gephardt speech and turned it off when he was done.

[sangh0]

20. No one really knows

but based on the comments in this thread, it's had no effect on their certainty

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

92. Thanks for your assistance

I doubt I would have noticed that if it weren't for your perceptive intervention

[haymaker]

17. Well I'll be a monkey's uncle!

I know you'll get to the bottom of it. So to speak.

[sangh0]

22. Thanks for your support

.

[YuNgWuN]

6. It seems like Gephardt is getting desperate to win Iowa

This is not a bash but it does seem like that way to me but I would be desperate to, Iowa is a must win for Gephardt to stay alive.

[newyawker99]

58. Hi YuNgWuN!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[YuNgWuN]

124. Thanks alot!

To bad more people didn't give me a warm welcome but thanks you anyway.

[Clark Can WIN]

84. It seems to me like Dean is getting his moneys worth from his new Davis

slime team.

[MGKrebs]

7. The story I read yesterday

said that it is common for staffers to attend opponents events to monitor what they are saying and how it is received.

It also said that this Dean staffer was "obviously gay" and was getting harassed because of that.

on edit: actually, the one story is from the Iowa paper, and the openly gay staffer comment was from Trippi, and it appears on the blog.

[w4rma]

9. Stories from yesterday

An openly gay staffer from Howard Dean's presidential campaign was reportedly pushed and grabbed by staffers at a rally for presidential candidate Dick Gephardt in Iowa on Tuesday, one of whom called him a "faggot," according to a Dean campaign press release. It is common practice among campaign staffers to attend events for other candidates so that they can report on what opposing candidates are saying, said Dorie Clark from the Dean for America press office.
…
http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=10323&sd=10/30/03

Dean Campaign Complains to Rival Gephardt

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP)--Democrat Howard Dean's presidential campaign complained to rival Dick Gephardt about an angry confrontation between staffers at an Iowa event.

The incident occurred during a Gephardt speech at a Des Moines senior center Tuesday. Hunter Allen, recording the speech for the Dean campaign, said one Gephardt staffer grabbed him by the shoulder and pulled him out of the crowd. A second staffer pushed him out the door.

``The one who was pushing me out was grabbing my arm, and at other points, he physically shoved me.'' Allen said, adding that the pair swore at him and used a derogatory slur. ``I was in shock at being treated that way.''

In a letter to the Gephardt campaign late Tuesday, Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi said, ``I urge you to find the staff member responsible and fire him, and send a strong signal to the rest of your staff that behavior of this kind will not be tolerated.''
…
http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/content/news/ap_story.html/National/AP.V3773.AP-Dean-Gephardt.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=71574

[sangh0]

15. IMO, if you ask someone to leave

a place they're not supposed to be, and they return to it later, there's nothing wrong with grabbing that person's arm and pushing them out of the place. They had a chance to leave under their own power, and declined the offer.

[ModerateMiddle]

28. I dunno about grabbing and pushing

It really depends on how "insistent" everyone was about what was taking place. If they had asked him to move, and he then moved back to the same or similar spot, they would probably touch his arm and ask him again to leave. If he didn't, they would likely "take his arm" (Grab?) and be more forceful.

It's being made a big deal by the Dean people - Trippi in this instance, I think made it "public".

I wonder why the press folks who had to be standing around asking questions of the candidate haven't spoken up yet?

[sangh0]

34. That's a very good question

I guess it's good enough to write about the charges and counter-charges, but not good enough to report the facts that they obviously must know.

[TLM]

109. In a crowd like that... it is easy to see how somethign like that would go

unnoticed unless it got violent and loud right under the press.

This sounds like he was pulled away before the name caling and violence started.

I can tell you the press at something like this would be focused on Gephardt, not his flunkies.

[sangh0]

114. Umm, maybe it's just me

but I doubt reporters left in the middle of a fight. The reporter obviously saw some of it. We know this because they're reporting it. I doubt they would leave in the middle of a fight between competing staffs.

[Hep]

39. Idunno about you

A little anecdote! I was at the Boss concert recently, and found a spot at the back of the field area where I saw some folks smoking. I knew it wasn't allowed, but figured, hell, they'll ask me to move if its a problem. So I'm about halfway dont with my smoke, and a security guy walks up and asks us not to smoke there. We all oblige nicely, returning to our seats.


About two thirds of the way through, I saw another group smoking and decided to join them. A few minutes later the security guard came up and asked us to stop, and we did.

What would it have been like if the security guard grabbed our arms and tried to force us out of the stadium?

There can be no doubt that more adamant suppotrers of other candidates HATE Dean and his campaign and everyone involved with it. If this board is any indication, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened before.

Either way, it is NEVER a staffers job to preform security. If this Dean kid was causing problems, it was up to the Gep staff to find someone qualified and authorized to handle security issues.

[sangh0]

46. Based on my concert-going experiences

which includes well over 1000 shows, I'd say you're lucky if you got to see the encore

[Egnever]

52. Rofl

You must go to the symphony.

Cause ive been to plenty of concerts and watched people be tolkd to put out the joint they are smoking and have it left at that.

Christian coalition concerts dont count.

[sangh0]

56. I've seen that

I've also seen people thrown out before the band even hit the stage for smoking. It depends on the Fire Marshall.

I've never seen security at a symphony (I've got at least 50 of those under my belt) get physical with a patron. I don't know why you would think security at a symphony is so rough.

[Egnever]

63. Spin spin spin spins spin

I never said the security at a symphony is rough.

I said that what you must go to.

Reason being that synphonies tend to have a much more polite crowd than your average rock concert and things go on at rock concerts all the time that would never fly at the symphony.

Regardless your sugesstion that people regularly get thrown out of concerts for smoking is rediculous.

[Hep]

67. Joking?

Regardless your sugesstion that people regularly get thrown out of concerts for smoking is rediculous.

What? For smoking? That's the funniest thing I've heard! Maybe benefit concerts at the lung cancer ward of the local hospital, but I've never seen it happen at a rock concert of any size.

[Egnever]

70. nah just spining

I am finding the lengths they will go to with this crap increasingly amusing

[Hep]

59. LOL

I have no idea what you are responding to, but I worked in the production biz for years, am in a touring rock band, and have been going to about 80-150 shows every year for the past 12 years. I've been to concerts in just about every state in the US. I've seen people get caught doing all sorts of illicit things, and seldom VERY seldom have I seen anyone forcibly removed for anything other than fighting or making threats. Whether it's a 60,000 person stadium show or a 200 person night club.

[Egnever]

66. I was responding to the notion another poster put forward

That people get thrown out for smoking all the time and that you were lucky that you were allowed to stay.

I realize the poster hates dean but reducing themselves to spining security reactions at rock concert is sinking to a new low.

[Hep]

69. Heh

Yeah, man. I've seen people thrown out, don't get me wrong. But not for smoking.

And I spent several years filling in as security for undermanned concerts. In non smoking venues. Never kicked anyone out.

[sangh0]

72. Grateful Dead and Phish @Spectrum

Hot Tuna - The Academy of Music, NYC (you had to smoke in the bathroom)

JBG, Hot Tuna - Capital Theatre - smoking got you thrown out 1st time. The place had velvet upholstered seats. Very flammable

Phish, MSG - Saw at least two dozen thrown out at opening of show for smoking

[ModerateMiddle]

75. What would have happened at that concert

if any of the smokers had decided NOT to move when they were asked to?

[Hep]

76. They would have been escorted out

And if they resisted they would have been arrested.

But it wasn't some stage hand or some concession stand kid asking us to move, it was security. And we did move, even if we returned later.

[sangh0]

80. "Escorted out"?

You mean like the kid at the Meadowlands who was "escorted out" only to be found later, dead, outside the building?

Does anyone remember his name?

[TLM]

107. Ahh no it is not... this was not a night club.

and these guys were not bouncers, or even security if I'm reading this correctly.

If they don't like what the guy is doing or feel he is somewhere that he is not supposed to be, the correct course of action would be to alert security and have them get physical if need be.

While this Dean guy might have been annoying... these accounts do not show him doing anything that would justify this kind of assault.

[sangh0]

123. Didn't say it was a night club

It applies to almost any situation. Unless it's your own home, if the person who is in charge of an area asks you to leave, you leave.

And there was no assault. Just Trippi's say-so

[janekat]

25. Why does Dean find it necessary to fight with everyone?

It really makes our party look bad. Every squabble is centered around Dean.

Dean vs. Sharpton
Dean vs. Kucinich
Dean vs. Kerry
Dean Vs. Gephardt
Dean vs. Clark
Dean vs. Edwards
Dean vs. Graham

[Hep]

30. And Dean started it all

You're back to your regular Dean attacks, I see. I suppose you'll claim HE started this conflict with you.

They all squabble with him because he is the front runner. He is the one people ask about when they walk up tot he D party table at the state fair. He is the man to beat. Don't you wonder why no one attacks Kucinich?

[sangh0]

38. Dean has attacked Kucinich

Dean disparaged DK as unelectable and not a "major candidate"

[janekat]

45. Oh yeah forgot about that... He's been in so many squabbles it's hard to

keep track... I added Dennis to the list - thanks.

[Hep]

49. Dean Dean Dean

He's always the aggressor! That evil evil man!

[janekat]

61. Glad you're finally seeing it.... LOL!

[Hep]

65. I know I know!

I'm glad you have a sense of humor about it.

I thought we came toa common ground yesterday, but here we are again, back on opposite sides.

[janekat]

81. I'm sure we'll find common ground again... I'm very liberal when it

comes to social issues and taxes. My conservative spot is dealing with foreign policy - I want someone who really knows about that issue.

I think it's just the candidate thing - Dean vs. Clark/Kerry (my two favs.)

[TLM]

110. What are Kucinich's poll numbers again?

Since when is pointing out the FACT that Kucinich is not a top tier candidate an attack?


That's like saying it is an attack to say Bush is a republican.

[JVS]

31. One could argue that it is because as front runner he is the one to beat

so others are picking fights with him.

[ModerateMiddle]

33. One could argue that

but one could also argue that he is the front runner because his name is in the news for all of the squabbles he's had with nearly all of the candidates.

[Hep]

41. THey're all squabbling

so how would that benefit him over them?

[sangh0]

48. Braun is squabbling?

What did Kucinich say in his Dean attack?

[TLM]

111. "HELLOOOOOO!" How soon we forget....

Kucinich has attacked Dean a few times on trade and health care... along with most of the other guys running.

[sangh0]

119. TLM, I thought it was you position

that truthful remarks are not attacks. I know you've defended some of Dean's statements/attacks on those grounds.

[TLM]

112. That might float were it not for the fact that the candidates are also

attacking each other.

[janekat]

51. Clark and Kerry were front runners - didn't see them squabbling w/everyone

n/t

[Hep]

60. When

were they front runners?

[janekat]

64. Clark was for a few weeks, Kerry was for a long time at the beginning....

n/t

[Egnever]

68. you mean before anyone was paying attention? NT

[Hep]

71. Clark is a great example

Clark benefitted greatly from the predeclaration hype, and no sooner did he declare than did he jump to the top of the polls, and no sooner did that happen than did most candidates go after him.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

82. someone is spreading a lie dont think its hep

Retired General Wesley Clark (D-AR) received numerous attacks from his rivals during the debate questioning his Democrat credentials.

Staffers posted a statement on Clark's official web log which read, "General Clark was flattered by all the attention he received tonight from the other candidates. For his part, General Clark is going to continue to talk about what he's going to do to move America forward."

Posters on Clark's web log, also called a blog, responded to what they saw during the debate.

"On CNN, the talking heads are saying that the General didn't perform well, and that he's lost stature. I don't necessarily think that's so. I think the General did as good a job as anyone who was constantly coming under attack can do. Lieberman is getting desperate," wrote blogger Jeff Davis. "I'm a Clark supporter, but I also think that Gephardt and Edwards looked good tonight."

Another Clark blogger wrote, "Clark appeared to be irrelevant this evening other than when Lieberman and Kerry were attacking him. That was really awful."

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/nw03/talonnews/1003/101303-spin.htm

[sangh0]

85. "numerous" is not "most"

The article you link names two (Kerry and Lieberman) who attacked Clark. There are 9 candidates, and 2 is not a majority of 9

[janekat]

87. Clark, Edwards & Kerry strike back with a smile and a humorous comment

THAT'S why we don't notice it as much. They both seem to kind of take it in stride. Attorneys and long-time senators (and probably Generals) are used to attacks and are good at deflecting them...

That's probably why those candidates appeal to me - it makes them more likeable.

[VermontDem2004]

32. You have to expect squabbles in a primary

There was plenty of squabbles in the 2000 republican primary but don't forget about Lieberman fighting with everybody, but I don't find it as fighting, Sharpton attacked his positions he took on affirmative action in 1995, NRA, and the death penalty which was perfectly ok, he said why Dean is incorrect on those positions. Dean went after the candidate's who voted in favor of the war and explained why they were incorrect on those positions, it's primaries but what did you expect? Plus Dean is not the only one here fighting over issues.

[Egnever]

37. Um not to try to ignore your point

But do you really believe that if someone else was the front runner they wouldnt have the same results?

Its because he is in the lead eveyone is taking shots at him. Its what hapens to the front runner.

And no every squable isnt about Dean. what about lieberman going after kerry. Or kerry going after clark. Or kucinich going after kerry.

The only ones to stay above the frey so far I think are edwards and braun the rest have all had squables with one another in one form or another.

[sangh0]

42. And then you ignore the point

The point being that while Dean is not the only one squabbling, Dean is the only candidate who has squabbled with so many of the other candidates.

The only ones to stay above the frey so far I think are edwards and braun the rest have all had squables with one another in one form or another.

And Dean has also attacked Edwards. Dean made a false claim about Edwards record wrt tax cuts. Dean later apologized for it.

[Egnever]

50. back at you

The point is the biggest reason dean is the center of all of this is he is the front runner.

As far as your lame attempt to paint dean as attacking edwards. Dean made a broad swipe at the senate dems and edwards didnt fit the situation dean was talking about so he apologized for including him.

[sangh0]

55. The other front-runners never had so many

When others were in the lead, they didn't get involved in squabbling with almost all of the other candidates.

As far as your lame attempt to paint dean as attacking edwards. Dean made a broad swipe at the senate dems and edwards didnt fit the situation dean was talking about so he apologized for including him.

LOL! You think that makes Dean sound good?

Dean unjustifiably included Edwards in one of his many attacks, and you don't have any problem with that.

[janekat]

83. Dean had to issue a letter of apology to Edwards?

If you don't remember - I can look it up somewhere...

[RetroLounge]

91. DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN

DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN

You Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Man!

DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN

[LeftCoast]

40. Ya know, I don't care whether you support Dean or Gephardt

but not one of you has condemned the "Faggot" comment. Way to go Democrats.

A pox on both your houses!

[Hep]

43. I'll condemn it

when it is verified.

[sangh0]

44. Don't you mean

the "alleged", and possibly fictional, "Faggot" comment?

[Eloriel]

54. You're calling Trippi and the Dean staff liars

That's pretty sick. The staff involved reported it, Trippi wrote it in the letter to Gephardt's Campaign Manager.

I feel very sorry for someone who is unwilling to take the word of the victim of that kind of language AND a major Presidential candidate's campaign manager. Very sorry.

Eloriel

[sangh0]

57. Yes, I (*gasp*) accused a political operative of lying

Unheard of, yes I know. I'll never forgive myself.

[Hep]

62. What did you expect

Some people are so closed minded and focused on their hatred of certain people that they're willing to go so far as to put the blame on the victim. If the kid was causing a problem, what kind of idiot takes it into his own hands rather than calling security?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

79. Oy vey

They're above reproach?

Wow. That was some million-megawatt worship there.

[CWebster]

102. ...megawatt worship...

Ah gee everybody, give old Wesley a break, he was just a regular guy, a good upstanding decent patriot, who, well, he couldn't help it. He couldn't help it when....he, he, he was like all the rest of the decent people who were led, er ah, misled but he changed his mind. He figured out which way the political winds were blowing when he changed his mind and that is what matters. And I admire him very much for changing his mind.

Chreeeist.

[ModerateMiddle]

116. this belongs in this thread, how?

talk about a non-sequitor

[sangh0]

120. Give up now

You're never going to get a reasonable response. It's CWebster.

[JVS]

47. Hadn't heard of that

Ah, now I see it up there.

[kodi]

53. what did you expect? this is politics, the moral equivalent of warfare.

anyone who is niave enough to think that dirty tricks and opponent disruption is not a part of everyday political campaigns lives under a rock.

this is not spitball. it is as hard and as ugly as anything one could think of.

the strategy of the dean campaign is to take out gephardt, because only he has the organization and ground troops to threaten dean.

supporters of most candidatrs usually believe that God shat the candidate out his butt and is as pure as the driven snow. but that is just a feature of a cult of personality where they think that their choice is beneath using disruption and dirty tricks.

no one is a virgin here, and each candidate will do what they can to inflict damage on an opponent.

i suspect the dean worker was acting like an asshole and gephardt's people threw him out of the event.

just wait until the regular campaign when it is done by gop operatives to the democratic nominee. because in reflection, what happened yesterday will look like a kiss.

[Dhalgren]

77. I don't support either candidate in question.

But, to me, after reading everything available, this looks like a negative for Dean. The Dean operatives story doesn't really make sense, and do you really believe Gephardt's campaign gay bashes? I think it looks more like a "dirty trick" committed by the Dean folks. And, again, I am not "for" either candidate, if anything I have always leaned more towards Dean than Gep.

[Hep]

78. Geps campaign doesn't do anything

But lie. No the campaign doesn't gay bash, but did one staffer call another person a faggot? Are the two the same thing?

[Dhalgren]

88. With no witnesses,

it's a "he said, he said" affair. So who do you believe? As a relatively disinterested observer, the Gep camp sounds the more "believable" - just IMO.

[Hep]

101. My take

I really don't see how it is such a big deal. I'm a big Dean fan, but not so much a Trippi fan. I think Trippi is behind this. Mountains out of molehills.

But then again, considering the hate spewn towards Dean from the Gephart camp, I wouldn't doubt if the root of this is more along the lines of feuding metween families, who was it, the Hatfields and McCoys?

[sangh0]

106. Mountains out of molehills?

Then why is Dean/Trippi making such a big deal out of this?

Are you saying that homophobic slurs are no big deal, or are you saying there was no slur?

[janekat]

90. Folks - this is a "classic" campaign move - right from Chicago handbookof

It's as old as the hills. You set up each others campaign workers - or when a campaign worker of one campaign has a problem with another - you demonize the other candidate for it.

In Chicago - we'd do it with the candidates signs. We'd all cry to the papers about how so-and-so's "mean" campaign workers tore down our signs. Or how they picked on one of our workers. It was especially good if the worker was a "little old lady."

Dean is playing to his most loyal base: gays.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janekat]

98. IF he indeed did do that he should be.. This whole thing reeks of politics

IMO. I've worked in too many campaigns not to recognize it.

DEANS most loyal and enegetic base IS gays and lesbians because of Dean's support. He has earned their support - in my opinion.

The DEMOCRATS are split between several candidates.

Different candidates have different "bases." Clark gets a lot of the military vote. Lieberman's base is conservative-moderate.

[ModerateMiddle]

121. allegations

it's not a proven claim yet, bub.

[LizW]

95. So, Gephart's staffers are dumb as dirt to fall for it?

That would seem to be what you're saying.

[janekat]

99. They handled it incorrectly. But this is "cheap politics" on Trippi's part

n/t

[LizW]

115. ::eye roll::

That's all.

[TLM]

117. dupe

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janekat]

105. I KNEW it - they have Chicago Operatives - could smell it a mile away...

......in the general ," Trippi said. "Illinois' going to play a big role in--probably being almost a second, eventually in the general, almost a second national headquarters--in the campaign."

Trippi, 47, grew up in Los Angeles but lived in Evanston for about four years in the early 1990s after marrying a woman from the North Shore suburb. During that time, he did some political work for Cook County Clerk David Orr, who was briefly eyeing a run for County Board president in 1994.

"He is a guy who does his homework," said Orr, who has not yet endorsed any of the Democratic presidential hopefuls. "He is real level-headed. He has street smarts, too. I was talking to him before he made really big time."

A veteran of Democratic presidential campaigns, Trippi became a political legend this year.

-snip-

Now divorced, Trippi is a regular Chicago visitor because his children and ex-wife still live in Evanston. His political consulting firm--Trippi, McMahon & Squier--maintains offices in Alexandria, Va., and in Evanston.

Dean has met with Mayor Daley, state House Speaker Michael J. Madigan, state Senate President Emil Jones and Cook County Democratic Chairman Thomas Lyons......

-snip-

[CWebster]

108. You're kidding!

That is really a disgrace!

That is downright disgusting! How could they?

:eyes:

[janekat]

113. Uh-oh - I bet I know half the people working on the Dean campaign

The same people work on ALL the campaigns (Daley/Hynes/Clinton, etc.)
I'll bet I worked with Trippi in one or another campaign - back when he was an unknown.

This is toooo funny. Good thing they don't have my number anymore.... Gads - if I were still in Chicago I'd probably be working on the Dean campaign...