LaRouche, who this guy?!? Presidential Candidate?

[German-Lefty]

I ran into a group of Germans that seem to love this Democratic presidential candidate LaRouche.

http://www.politics1.com/dems04.htm#larouche

Accourding to his following, he's being slandered by everyone. Accourding to others he's got a cult.

The Anti-Defamation League quotes him as saying a bunch of anti-Semitic stuff, which I can't seem to verify anywhere.

Reading some of his pages, it does seem a bit kooky, but I haven't seen anything totally evil yet. He just seems to think the world is run by a bunch of elite cronies, which doesn't sound so far fetched. I have no idea if his theories on groups of cronies are acurate or just silly conspiracy theories.

Does anyone have anything ojective for or against him?

[E_Zapata]

1. He's a total nut,

He's been running for president since I was first voting.....over 20 years.

I get confused: sometimes he runs as a dem; sometimes a liberterian

And he's the most racist person in the USA.

I would steer clear of any friends who thinks this guy is the bee's knees!

[La_Serpiente]

2. LaRouche is a convicted criminal

He is not a part of the Democratic Debates and nobody really likes him. He is an economist who always praises the European way of life.

However, he always comes up with these crazy conspiracy theories.

Here is his website if you want to know:

http://larouchein2004.net/

[loudnclear]

4. So are some White House appointees and staffers.

Sometimes La Rouche make the ulimate sense. That's why he is despised by both sides.

[ClintonTyree]

3. Perennial............

nut job. Why he says he's a Democrat is beyond me and beyond the pale of Democratic ideals. Everything is a conspiracy with him. Stay away, far away.

[charlie]

5. His followers are pretty rabid

They're often disruptors at public events. One of them managed to goad Phil Donahue into throwing a punch at him by insulting Marlo.

[terrya]

6. LaRouche says that the Queen of England is behind the world drug trade.

Seriously.

That should tell you about LaRouche's philosophy. Among other things.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. Can you say "Opium Wars"?

The royal family in England has been pushing drugs for centuries, this is NOT one of Larouche's craziest ideas.

His craziest idea is that tuning A=440 is a conspiracy to destroy Western culture by making people sing off key. No, really.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Isn't He An Ex-Con?

Last time I remember LaRouche he was rotting in a cell for some tax scam and yelling he was a political prisoner.

Those of us in Illinois will never forget the LaRouchies hijacking the '86 Gubenatorial election...winning the Democratic primary. Those were some very, very strange people.

[German-Lefty]

8. Thanks, to all that have posted.

The people in this group:
http://www.bueso.de/hessen/
seem to like him, but maybe they just don't know him that well, or maybe there's a small crossmembership of nuts.

Next time I see these guys I'll ask them about some of the nutty conspiracy theories. Maybe they'll wierd me out. Maybe LaRouche will have wierded them out.

Thanks to all for your posts.

I wish people quoting him like this could give me links. I haven't found any yet. I could believe some of the stuff is so insane, it has to be made up, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/institutional_analysis/lhldefd.html

If these quotes are real, I want nothing to do with these guys.

[Kellanved]

9. wackos

They're very active in Berlin as well. They're standing together with the sect-guys at the University's main entrance looking for new followers - and they have the same fanatic look.
The Büso Programm in the last state Elections was: "Build the new silk street! Build the Transrapid (Maglev) Hamburg-Berlin-Moscow-Bejing!". That with the limited budget of an overdebted city-state - .

The one saying that applies to him and his "predictions": " A broken clock is right two times a day"

Sidenote: the chairwoman of the Büso Party is the wife of Larouche.


Edited for Typos

[German-Lefty]

11. Thanks that helps.

The Büso Programm in the last state Elections was: "Build the new silk street! Build the Transrapid (Maglev).

I don't know if that's that bad. Deficit spending may be nesssesary to fix our economies. Maglev's are really cool! Still you're right there are probably social things we could spend our money on first.

Sidenote: the chairwomen of the Büso Party is the wife of Larouche.
Ahh ok, I was wondering if they were very linked or not. I guess they are.

Too bad, I thought it was kind of cool that they were out tring to strengthen German-American relations. LaRouch probably isn't a good ambasidor, then again you can't be much worse than Bush.

As a German/American I'll do my best to act in solidarity with myself :-).


I tried adding you to my buddy list Kellanved, but it didn't want to do it.


So um, if his clock is right twice a day, do we distance ourselves from him as democrats, or tolerate him? He apearantly did campaign hard against the California recall.

[Kellanved]

17. Well

A Maglev is a cool thing, but I doubt that it would have a significant impact on the economy (Passenger only and way too expensive). In any case: something like that would have to be a federal/European project, as Berlin hasn't even the money to complete a new subway line.

The German/American friendship is another matter: I hope/believe that time will mend it. The one thing that America seems to have in abundance is bad ambassadors: Coats, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice... none of them has done anything to improve matters (nor has there been a good opportunity to do so/ an inviting gesture that could have been accepted without loss of face).
That is only the tip of the iceberg however: if the basic mood (in both nations) changes the official part will follow shortly IMHO.


I personally try to stay clear of fanatics, with no regard to their affiliation . His followers (at least those here) use the label "democratic" only to be identified what most students/people know to be the good guys in American politics. The concept of primaries and multiple candidates (prior to the primaries) isn't understood by most Germans, thus the campaign seems to have the sole intention of making people believe that LaRouche is "the candidate".
I have little doubt that the Larouche campaigners are in no way engaged with the Democratic Party, but only interested in furthering the cause of their leader.

[German-Lefty]

20. American-German relations

That is only the tip of the iceberg however: if the basic mood (in both nations) changes the official part will follow shortly IMHO.
You're right this is about people. I have a friend here who claims to have run into all kinds of Anti-American abuse. I have trouble believing him, because I noticed nothing. Then again I speak German almost perfectly, I'm young, I work, and I stay in the cities, where any racist Germans like me more than the other foreigners.

Still I can believe that there are some that don't like America for obvious reasons, and maybe wouldn't like Americans.

Americans used to just be oblivious the the world. You can't have Anti-German sentiment, if you still think Hitler runs Germany. Seriously there are some that still think that appearantly. The Bush Anti-World stance is new, but it'll go I hope.


The concept of primaries and multiple candidates (prior to the primaries) isn't understood by most Germans, thus the campaign seems to have the sole intention of making people believe that LaRouche is "the candidate".
They seemed honest with me. "This guy's got no chance." Maybe some of the guys I talked to just need a second point of view about the guy. All they've probably heard is:
America is this messed up country that threatens the stablity of the planet and our hero will fix it. They kept him as a political prisoner and published a bunch of lies about him, but the word is getting out. Just believe.

I have little doubt that the Larouche campaigners are in no way engaged with the Democratic Party, but only interested in furthering the cause of their leader.
I doubt anyone knows what the leader's cause is though. :-)

[Kellanved]

22. Yes

You're right this is about people. I have a friend here who claims to have run into all kinds of Anti-American abuse. I have trouble believing him, because I noticed nothing. Then again I speak German almost perfectly, I'm young, I work, and I stay in the cities, where any racist Germans like me more than the other foreigners.
I've heard about a few ugly scenes myself - however I have trouble believing that those are simply a product of the current situation: for starters it is always possible to go round the wrong corner in any city. Tourists can't know those corners... (a short while ago a group of Swedes was beat up while fetching a few beers)
Then there are quite a lot hooliganesque assholes just waiting for an excuse to start a brawl - any excuse will do. And finally there are (in Berlin) still a few pockets of honest-to-??? radicals spitting on anyone in a suit. The American students I know are weary of answering questions/ explaining themselves - I haven't heard of any violence directed at them, but they're fed up with the situation even so (although it is starting to improve again).

[German-Lefty]

23. "Dude what's wrong with German people" -- Southpark quote

Sorry just had to throw that in.

And finally there are (in Berlin) still a few pockets of honest-to-??? radicals spitting on anyone in a suit.
Good thing I dress like a bumb. :-)

The American students I know are weary of answering questions/ explaining themselves.
I have no problem saying "yeah, Bush sucks. I hate him more than you." And babbling to strangers about politics. However, I can understand an a political person not wanting to deal with that crap.

The friend of mine who seems to be catching the trouble thinks, that to politicians in Germany actually sort of brought on Anti-American feelings, maybe to divert attention away from political failings at home.

I have trouble believing this, because it hurts us more than them. Sure Schröder or whoever can blame the bad economy on the US's. To some degree that makes sense. Have you seen anything that would lead you to believe any of the parties were tring to spur up resentment toward America?

My feeling is they'd give a Frenchman a harder time in Texas than an American could get in most of Germany.

[Kellanved]

24. Parties

That's a tough question - Schröder did bring foreign policy in his election campaign. He had to, as it is his main strength. He is neither as classy as Schmidt, nor as dumb as Kohl (idiocy can be an asset). He hasn't the charisma of Brandt either.
However he is a better negotiator (one might say Salesman) than either of the others. He is quite possibly the best negotiator around (Meeting him is like a punch in the stomach - hard to describe and completely different than meeting Schmidt).

The campaign was not Anti-American initially (and not planned that way) IMHO; that accusation was made by the opposition - probably because it was their only way to attack the popular no-war stance. Once that accusation was out, it became - to a certain level - the truth. Especially for the American media.

I don't think that Anti-American sentiments were spurred intentionally, but I fear that Anti-American voters felt attracted by Schröder’s promise not to participate in a possible Iraq-war (one he has held despite everyone predicting otherwise). The conservatives however use anti-immigration (and worse) campaigns to gain far-right votes- I guess that's OK :shrug: .

Remember: the main reasoning for Schröder being Anti-American (with his daughter being an American citizen and his retirement location of choice being New York...) was that he claimed an Iraq-war to be certain, when it - according to the media - was not.
By today we know that the Iraq-war was certain already last fall - so I don't see why people are keeping the accusation up.

[German-Lefty]

30. I see no wrongdoing on Germany's part

It seems logical that Germany has every right to say "Hey America, we love ya, but your foreign policy XYZ ... we're not on board." Of coarse you've got the Bushite "with us or against us" nuts.

Remember: the main reasoning for Schröder being Anti-American (with his daughter being an American citizen and his retirement location of choice being New York...) was that he claimed an Iraq-war to be certain, when it - according to the media - was not.
By today we know that the Iraq-war was certain already last fall - so I don't see why people are keeping the accusation up.
I would like to think the US could swallow some pride and say "hey, ok you were right we were wrong, sorry about that."

Why didn't Bush get all pissy at the Russians and others who weren't in on the deal. Nobody renamed White Russians like they did Freedom Fries.


According to this friend of mine this blame America politik was around under the CDU government too. I'm not sure where he gets this idea though.

[Kellanved]

33. America is blamed for the Economy - by all Parties

And most research institutes concur - the one Party that consistently attacks the US is the postcommunistic PDS. They were crushed in the last Elections (due to the unliked conservative candidate and said Anti-War stance by Schöder ). I can't remember people crying "Anti-American" because of a Kohl policy, but there was ample opportunity to do so.


It seems logical that Germany has every right to say "Hey America, we love ya, but your foreign policy XYZ
I think there is the real problem: that is a new development. Prior to 1990 the German government had no right to conntradict the American president. That right was given back to Germany by President Bush sr. . And Schröder was the first chancellor to actually use it.


The unfairness in attacking France, Russia and Germany only is another matter: I still wonder why Arnold got no problems with his affiliation to the Austrian conservatives. The conservative (in a coalition with the Far-Right) Austrian government even closed the Airspace in protest of the war. And other than other nations they claimed friendship with Hussein.

[Paschall]

21. Here are a couple links

Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism (a book review)

LaRouche’s Antisemitic Conspiracism

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Fascism Wrapped in an American Flag

The Cult Controversy - Ideological Odyssey: From Old Left to Far Right (from the Washington Post)

And this one will really get you rocking:
A Sampler of Quotes from Lyndon LaRouche

Quote: "Who is pushing the world toward war? is the forces behind the World Wildlife Fund, the Club of Rome, and the heritage of H.G. Wells and the evil Bertrand Russell."
- "An Open Letter to President Brezhnev", Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.,
Executive Intelligence Review, June 2, 1981

[Paschall]

19. Watch out for Roach Man. His wife runs the Schiller Institutes

A worldwide network.

Total nut case. He may have toned down his rhetoric, but in the early 80s he was rabidly anti-gay.

[IrateCitizen]

10. Someone once compared his brain to a game of whack-a-mole

Most accurate assessment of Lyndon LaRouche I ever heard.

[salin]

32. *snort*

apt description.

[ShaneGR]

12. He's not a Democrat, he's a cult leader

Plain and simple.

[arwalden]

29. But He's Got Some KICK-ASS Radio Commercials...

when it comes to letting the Repubes have it with both barrels.

-- Allen

[av8rdave]

13. Things I remember about LaRouche

When he ran for President in 1988, he predicted imminent massive economic disaster. How did he know this? When he bounced a rubber ball on a table, it's path looked remarkably similar to a chart of a stock market index during the early 1930s. (Honest to God, I'm not making this up - he explained this incredible theory on an infomercial he produced.) His rubber ball said we were in for another big one.

He proposed a colony on Mars to house everyone with HIV/AIDS.

I was stopped at my home airport (late 80s) by LaRouche supporters, asking me to sign a petition to put him on the ballot. I pointed out that he was in prison at the time (tax evasion, I believe). I was told by these nice folks that "...Mr. LaRouche is strictly a political prisoner, and if you believe otherwise, you are either a communist or a homosexual."

When my Dad was approached in the early 80s about a similar petition, he told the supporters that the only petition he would sign would be one to put that nutcase behind bars. The LaRouche people actually threatened him with physical violence.

This guy does not have both oars in the water.

av8rdave

He briefly shared a prison cell with televangelist Jim Baker. I would have paid to sit in on some of those conversations!

[RichM]

14. One LL characteristic that must be mentioned is that his stuff SOUNDS

very reasonable & intelligent for about the first 90 seconds or so. (This is because he used to be a leftist, & absorbed some of the more-compelling oratory.) He is a nut -- but it's not immediately obvious. Nor is it all that well-hidden. It usually takes a few minutes to be able to see it.

[charlie]

16. He used to be a pacifist Quaker, too

Oddly enough...

[Minstrel Boy]

25. a very good point

There's very little exposure to Larouche up here, and superficially, given their unabashed calling Bush and Cheney criminals, it's easy to wonder what American leftists object to so vehemently. So, I dug a little, and yeesh. It gets stinky real fast.

[German-Lefty]

18. Wow - thanks you guys

Well I promised the Büso guys I'd show up for a meeting. So I will, but I'll try to have fun.

Reminds me of a guy telling me how Mormons came over and after they talked for a while he said "Ok, cut the crap. When do I get my own planet?"

Thanks to all that replied, but if possible could you give me some links to unbaised sites that talk about/quote him. Maybe I can save some of the Büso people. I don't think the guys I talked to would want to put all the people with AIDS on Mars or subscribe to any of that other crazy stuff. Though I did notice they were pretty much all guys, which maybe says something. I could see some of em maybe getting a bit frindge/nutty more than gals.

[rman]

35. unbaised sites

You'll have to find out for yourself which sources are 'unbaised'.
even biassed sites do publish truth; often it's more a matter of what is emphasized and what is being suppressed.

Some sources go over the top, they'r easy to recognize: mixing some exadurated stuff about suspisions regarding for instance the death of Diana, with some clearly wacko ramblings about aliens and "the lower fourth dimension".

I try and take the message on its own merrit and correlate it with other information; information about the messenger may be relevant in the process of correlation, but ultimately it is not about the messenger.

[Scairp]

26. Pure psycho n/t

[liberalitch]

27. I guess

you've never been to a DMV in the state of Virginia....
They're out there and they won't leave you alone.

most of the time they're strange acting men with alot of nose hair.

[PATRICK]

28. objective comment

He seems to want to take the right side, but take it completely for himself. Listening to one interview the udnerlying deluison is similar to OReilly's, his opinion is supreme, the credit accrued to himself total, his opposition a paranoid fanstasy of epoch proportions.

It would be funny to see the two do an interview together. Whether they got into an ego war or fell in love it would be hilarious.

If he weren't so hell bent on appropriating populist causes as he sees fit he might be a friend. If he could really credit other people and do a little more open minded research he might further the causes he believes in(other than himself).

Let this be a warning to all tinfoil hat obsessionists here. This could be you someday. Many of these plots, camps, grand architects or historic cabals are irrelevant- if they exist and certainly not on the scale of the Miltonic Satan. More like self-deified cockroaches. Yet the sheer intellectual effort and time gone into LaRouche's movement is staggering and even more for being ineffective outside the discipleship circles.

[maha]

31. Evil

Google for "Lyndon LaRouche" and "cult" and you'll get some interesting hits.

[rman]

34. and again, no arguments or examples

"wacko" "nut" "evil" etc. without any substantiation.
He's no more 'anti-semetic' then anyone else critisizing likut/zionist israeli policies and actions.

He's a convicted criminal, but there are strong indications that his conviction was a set-up:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/exon/exon1.html

"The railroading of Lyndon LaRouche and his associates to prison was set up by an illegal and unprecedented involuntary bankruptcy action—initiated by the same Justice Department prosecutors, and approved by the same federal judge, who later oversaw the frame-up criminal trial of LaRouche in Alexandria, Va.

Well before the bankruptcy action was taken, federal prosecutors realized that they could not carry out a successful prosecution of LaRouche unless they could cut off repayments of loans to persons who were political supporters of the LaRouche movement, and who had lent funds to publishing companies associated with the LaRouche political movement.

The involuntary bankruptcy—which made it illegal to repay these loans!—was the essential precondition for bringing criminal charges of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud against LaRouche and his associates."