Who's going to go after Dean in the next debate?

[La_Serpiente]

OK, here's who I think that will go after Dean HARD in the next debate.

Sharpton, Kerry, Gephardt, and maybe Kucinich.

[Egnever]

1. You know I dont think it matters who goes after him.

The man is the real deal. They wont lay a glove on him.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

2. I Think Al Sharpton Saying Dean Has an "Anti-Black Agenda"

Might just lay more than a glove on him.

DTH

[pruner]

7. considering nobody is stepping forward in agreement with him

and respected black leaders are coming forward to denounce his comments I'd say Sharpton seems to have punched himself in the face.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. I Guess We'll See

If Sharpton goes after Dean in the debates, no matter how hard you try, that cannot be spun as some kind of positive. Sharpton is the best debater on the stage. If he goes after Dean, it will not be a pretty sight.

DTH

[La_Serpiente]

I concur

Sharpton is going to come down hard on Dean and he has the words to do it.

[pruner]

12. I have no doubt that Dean would be able to take Sharpton apart in 60 secs

Sharpton is a fucking joke, and his comments today make him a detriment to the Democratic party at large.

I believe this will turn out to be the issue that drives him out of the race.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

16. Who's Saying It'll Drive Him Out of the Race?

No one's saying that at all.

And if you really think Dean will be able to take Al apart in 60 seconds, well, let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree.

DTH

[pruner]

20. I'm saying it'll ultimately cause Sharpton to drop out

his comments show one thing & one thing only – Al Sharpton's candidacy is all about Al Sharpton.

not only has he slandered Dean, he's impugned the reputations of Jesse Jackson Jr & Major Owens, both of whom are infinitely more respected than he is.

my point about Dean being able to take Sharpton apart in 60 secs is a reference to the fact that a quick NexisLexis search would provide ample ammunition to fire back at Sharpton.

he's made so many inflammatory comments about different segements of society over the years that Dean wouldn't even need to take one of out of context (as Sharpton has done) to destroy him.

[SahaleArm]

23. He can't

> my point about Dean being able to take Sharpton apart in 60 secs is
> a reference to the fact that a quick NexisLexis search would
> provide ample ammunition to fire back at Sharpton.

That would be Dean's death knell, his best course will be clarifying his positions and taking the high road.

[pruner]

25. that's what he seems to be doing

it's much better to let people like Major Owens & JJ Jr respond at this point, leaving Dean above the fray.

I think that if this issue comes up during the next debate:

a) Sharpton won't be the one bringing it up… I think he'll have already been hurt by the comments

b) Dean's response will be to clarify his position, and not attack Sharpton

[Hep]

29. Except

for that whole Jesse Jackson Jr. thing.

Does Sharpton want to divide the African American community?

[Upfront]

58. I do.

To bad about Kerry, it was his to lose, and he has. Sharpton is funny and it is always nice to have someone to keep things lite. Hope he will work for who wins. Not many take him serious as he has noted. Libberman is history, Rethug. lite sticks to him. Dennis never had a shot, and has hurt him self often. Dick G. is old news who has had his day in the sun. Union officals can suggest who they want but that won't mean much to the rank and file. The lady is a lady and has lots to offer, but no shot. Edwards is doing ok, but a long shot. To young it seems to me. I liked Bob Graham but he was smart to get out as he was going no where. He has guts and substance, but no one listened. It will come down to Clark or Dean if Hillery stays out, and I don't think she will. The DLC boys will insist she get in to stop Dean and Clark. They want the big money train to keep rolling on and care little for the lower income peoples problems. If Hillery gets in it will split the party right down the middle and may cost us the election. My choice is Dean with Clark as his VP. Dean is the best at firing up the people and has the courage to stand up to the * machine. He will win it all. My two cents worth.

[Langis]

3. That just make me think of something

Has Clark attacked anyone yet?

As far as people who will attack Dean, you left out Lieberman. I expect a lot of attacks from Kerry though. Does anyone else cringe when Kerry attacks Dean? It got old about 3 debats ago.

[La_Serpiente]

4. One thing I noticed

was that every time any of Dean's opponents attacked him, Dean got more money.

Maybe they don't want to "feed the beast".

[DoveTurnedHawk]

6. Clark Hasn't Attacked Anyone Yet (eom)

DTH

[Langis]

10. I thought so

Another reason he is my #2 man after Kucinich. Every time I see them attack each other I just want to throw something at the TV.

[wtmusic]

11. Except for the Russians

Oh, lighten up

[Langis]

13. What does "Except for Russians" mean?

[wtmusic]

14. 'The Guy Who Almost Started World War III' (since you asked)

"No sooner are we told by Britain's top generals that the Russians played a crucial role in ending the West's war against Yugoslavia than we learn that if NATO's supreme commander, the American General Wesley Clark, had had his way, British paratroopers would have stormed Pristina airport, threatening to unleash the most frightening crisis with Moscow since the end of the Cold War."

"I'm not going to start the third world war for you," General Sir Mike Jackson, commander of the international KFOR peacekeeping force, is reported to have told Gen. Clark when he refused to accept an order to send assault troops to prevent Russian troops from taking over the airfield of Kosovo's provincial capital. The Times of London reported on 23 May 2001 in an article titled, "Kosovo clash of allied generals," that "General Sir Michael Jackson told that he would have to resign if he refused to obey an order by the American commander of Nato's forces during the Kosovo war to stop the Russians from seizing control of Pristina airport in June 1999."

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jatras12.html

[Hep]

47. Now theres four words that don't belong together

General Sir Michael Jackson.

[NNN0LHI]

15. I think it was an inside joke? n/t

[La_Serpiente]

8. I don't think Liberman will go as hard against Dean

I think he is more focused on Clark.

While all of this infighting is going on, I think Edwards will start to gain some support. I really think Edwards is being underestimated here.

[wtmusic]

5. Dean is going to have to be ready

This is going to be a good test. Dean under the gun, Dean defending without being defensive, Dean being ready to answer.

We'll see...

[NNN0LHI]

17. When is the next debate? Thanks in advance n/t

[JaneQPublic]

30. The only one I know of is the Rock the Vote debate

Nov. 4

http://www.cnn.com/artv/

[quinnox]

18. For sure Kerry will, and probably

Kucinich and Gephardt. I'm sure Kucinich is now strongly against Dean with a passion because Dean wouldn't change those ads.

But not sure about Sharpton, I know he just went after Dean in the paper, but if he goes after him in the debate it will be the beginning of the end of the Dean campaign.

[DannyRed]

19. Who has more credibility

Jesse Jackson Jr. or Al Sharpton?

The former has endorsed Dean...the latter says that Dean has an anti-black agenda.

[JaneQPublic]

37. I would guess Jesse Jackson Jr. does

Jesse Jr. has actually been elected to office several times, serving as U.S. Rep from Chicago since 1995.

Sharpton has run for elective office three times before the presidency, and has never won an election.

[pruner]

22. LOL

…it will be the beginning of the end of the Dean campaign.

dream on.

:crazy:

[Clark Can WIN]

21. Dean

The multitude of Deanies within the Dean collective will buzz ever highter untill their harmonic frequencies converge. Then their collective heads will blow.

People will eat popcorn on hillsides while saying "ooooh" and "wowww" in the great tradition of America.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

24. Who attacked him last?

eom...

[CWebster]

26. Kerry

Typical lack of judgement on Kerry's part. He doesn't seem to realize the more he deliberately attacks for any reason he can contrive- the more he alienates Dean supporters.

But what else can he do? His options are limited--it isn't as if the sheer charm of his personality convinces anyone.

:evilgrin:

[KittyWampus]

35. Kerry Rightly Pointed Out We Elect A President

and not a staff...

Dean committed a huge blunder in comparing himself to Junior....

[Hep]

50. Huge blunder?

How so? I mean, how will this HUGE BLUNDER play itself out?

[quaker bill]

27. it is about time they figured out

attacking Dean is doing none of them any good. This is not the path to the Whitehouse for any of them.

The boys in office have the path and tools before them. They would need to stand up take a risk or two and use their power in office to effectively oppose some piece of Shrubya* BS. Shrubya* presents them opportunities to do this every week.

If Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, Kucinich, or Gephart could gather a majority around them, which means peel of some moderate Repugs, and unite the Dems in opposition to something big, they would seem like the true leader they portend to want to be. It would be a feat Dean could not top or emulate, he would be stuck just applauding from the sidelines. It is the power inherent in incumbency.

Kucinich doesn't seem to be able to gather a majority. The rest seem not to possess the intestinal fortitude to take on such a risk.

They could be larger than Dean, because they have the job. I don't see it likely to happen, because they are, with the noted exception of Dennis, risk adverse, - just like Al Gore was.

[CWebster]

28. Absolutely

a deficiency of leadership.

[KittyWampus]

38. I'd Say Highlighting Dean's Lack Of Foreign Policy

Was doing the Democratic Party and America a favor...

We actually DO elect a President and NOT A STAFF.

Furthermore,

Dean's complete lack of credentials on foreign policy and the military make him TOTALLY unable to cut the Pentagon budget.

Because Dean is percieved as weak on defense... he will have to balance the budget ( IN PART) on the backs of the Middle & Lower Class. We are already paying enough at this point.

The Pentagon budget needs to be deflated and DEAN CANNOT DO IT.

It is imperative that the other Democratic Candidates point this out!

[Hep]

51. Same old same old

What kind of foreign policy credentials do you look for in a president, and why is that more important than policy for you?

And why is it OK to subscribe to false perceptions?

[KittyWampus]

59. Dean's Percieved Weakness On Defense

Makes it impossible for him to significantly cut the PEntagon budget when he tries to balance the budget in four years.

It also makes him a sitting duck for the GOP.

[Hep]

60. SQUAWK!

I didn't ask you to repeat what you said before. I asked you why you think it is OK for perception to rule over truth.

You said PERCEIVED weakness on defense, which means you aren't ready to claim that it is a FACT that he is weak on defense.

So why do you sell millions of americans short by asserting that they aren't smart enough to see through false "perceptions" to the truth?

[CWebster]

54. This is tiresome.

I object to those who rally around Kerry as the master of foreign policy because he was a soldier. Again I ask you, why is military representation the ideal, why is this the face the US wants to show the world, especially after the world opposes US aggression?

This was Reagan's fantasy, and he viewed war as a Hollywood production of glory, being so confused he talked about film as if it was real events. Then we have Bush living out his fantasy on the aircraft carrier- which everyone sneers at. Now along comes Kerry, buying into to the same fantasy, but seeking to distinguish himself because he was a for real hero.

A hero who protested the war upon his return from 'Nam, a hero who supposedly dumped the symbols of his heroism over the wall (turns out they were someone else's medals( but Kerry allowed the illusion), a hero who testified to what the true nature of war was, that it was barbarism of a daily occurence, a hero who condemned other past candidates who played the service card.

Kerry has been a Senator for quite some time, and what has he done since that period of Viet Nam, that would indicate that his public service has demonstrated strong leadership in opposition to Bush and his damn staff - He couldn't even take a strong stand against Negroponte who he knew was an Iran-contra criminal who got off on a technicality.

[CMT]

31. oh they all will

because he is the preceived front runner. Dean just has to let it roll off his back and not respond in kind. They will only demean themselves especially Sharpton if he continues to attack Dean as being "anti-black".

[Hep]

32. Who isn't

Did I miss something, is Dean no longer the front runner?

As long as he is, everyone is going to go after him. Except for Clark, who contiunues to hope to make hay out of NOT criticizing anyone. We see how well that's worked for him. He looks more like a spectator, like he doesn't know enough to criticize. Maybe Mary should participate in the debate!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Why Is Being A Gentleman And Not Attacking Your Opponents Trying

"to make hay"...


Maybe Wes Clark is what he is... A fundamentally decent guy...

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar......

As an aside, John Edwards doesn't do much attacking either...

[Hep]

41. Don't get me wrong

It's admirable that Clark isn't going after others yet. But everything in a campaign is a strategy. It's a calculated effort. It's one of the reasons why I don't look at criticism as a matter of a candidates principles, unless that candidate is outright lying (Gephardt).

Some have said that the only thing worse than engaging in attacks is NOT engaging in attacks. And of course I use the broadest definition for "attack", meaning any form of criticism, or any question of policy. I don't like that definition but it was chosen for me by others here.

I think most of the candidates are fundamentally decent guys. And I long for days when the candidates don't go after each other, but the system is what it is right now. But whethre or not one attacks other candidates is a matter of political strategy IMO, not principle.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I Think Some Folks Are Inherantly More Aggressive Than Others.....

but channel their aggression in different ways.....


But I do think Joe takes pleasure in "zinging" his opponents....

[Hep]

45. Very true.

as if there are varying degrees of true!

:)

[RetroLounge]

33. They will ALL attack Dean, obviously.

Because they are losing the primary to the obviously better candidate. They will attack the front runner because they are desperate. And Dean will rise above it and as usual, be the better candidate and the clear winner. Then his numbers will rise again in Iowa and NH. and the Dollars wil flow in once again. and the lead will increase. and the others will get even more desperate. and the attacks will continue. ad nauseum...

One thought. I don't think Clark will attack Dean directly, for some reason. He'll let the others do it. Because he's the newer candidate, he will probably spend more time clarifying his positions and trying to get better known for what he stands for as opposed to who he is and what uniform he wears. He knows it will take more than that, and he will most likely do his best to educate us about his positions. Maybe he's just a better man than the rest.

He's obviously better than his (Dean-Bashing) supporters here on DU.

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. It's easier to say who won't than who will

Braun won't, she doesn't attack anyone.

Edwards won't, he doesn't attack either.

Clark won't because he'll be too busy defending himself.

Lieberman won't because he'll be attacking Clark instead.

Sharpton might because he's sore about the Jesse Jackson Jr. endorsement of Dean.

Kerry will spend more time attacking Dean than saying anything about himself. Hopefully Dean will get a chance to put him in his place, the second tier. :D

Gephardt probably will not after the lashing he got the last time he did it.

Kucinich will probably still be grumbling over the ad that didn't even pertain to him and waste another opportunity to get attention for HIS positions.

[KittyWampus]

39. Dean Supporters Seem To Think There's No Reason To Confront Dean

Apparently, the only reason any of the Candidates might confront Dean is becasue he is the "front runner".

Perish the thought that the other Candidates might have different VIEW POINTS and RECORDS.

Heaven forbid if they wish to point out the obvious deficiencies of a Dean Candidacy.

All Hail The Dean!

[JaneQPublic]

40. True, but nobody is confronting Carol, Dennis, or Al. Why is that?

They all have viewpoints and records to be addressed, too, yet no one's confronting them. That's because they're at the rear of the pack, not at the front.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Why Was Al Sharpton's Almost Everybody's Darling On This Board

until today?

What happened?

I must not have gotten todays meme...

[boxster]

46. He attacked Dean, which made him the enemy.

:eyes:

[Hep]

49. Get it right

If you are going to be sarcastic, at least get it right. He attacked Dean with lies. So yeah, he has somne explaining to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. I Worship At The Altar Of Intellectual Consistency

but like all fallible humans I sometimes lapse....

Sharpton has been called a "fucking joke", a "crook", "a loon", and a "racebater" on this board today...*

If he is these things today he most certainly were these things yesterday...

If I am wrong please demonstrate to me that I am wrong in a fashion that would pass muster in any introductory logic class.....


*as a sad aside all these charges have been leveled on the "bad" sites and we all know what these sites are...

[Hep]

57. Sharpton

I don't like any of those terms to describe him.

I think Al SHarpton has a pretty clear record of reactionism. And I think that several times in the past he has fallen into the trap of making mountains out of molehills. I don't think that anyone here will deny that over his career he has damaged his political credibility somewhat.

Throughout thius campaign Sharpton has been eloquent and on point. It's like Mr. Pitt said when he came down to chapel hill. He makes you want to get into a time machine, seek him out decades ago and yell SHUT UP! But really I haven't seen him as being much more than a sound bite factory. In one of the debates, he said he agreed with Dean's single payer health care plan. WHA???

But I don't feel the same way as I did yesterday about Sharpton. I saw him as being honest yesterday. Now I'm just perplexed as to why he would make such an unfair claim. I don't hate him. He's still the same Al Sharpton. It's just that now he's doing some of the things I wish I could go back in time and prevent him from doing.

[Hep]

48. Speaking for myself

I liked Al Sharpton for his candor and cadence, so to speak. He was and is the most entertaining of the nine.

But what he said about Dean's platform is false. Out of nowhere.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. IMHO

that's a legitimate criticism but I think some folks have been harboring some very hostile attitudes towards the Rev and are using this as an opportunity to vent....

[JaneQPublic]

53. All I said was that Al is at the "rear of the pack" in the polls...

...Along with Carol and Dennis. Is that not a fact?

How is what I said in any way an indication that Sharpton has lost his "Darling" status -- other than the fact that you wanted to recycle a line used on a locked thread?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. I Would Respectfully Suggest

you read the entire thread.... It was the tenor of this thread and not your specific statement which was the catalyst for my question....

You better read the thread fast cuz I would be suprised if the mods let some of these posts stand.....


Peace03

Brian


P.S. I try to stay inside the rules of DU though I stray at times but I don't think the thread was locked cuz of my question which is now resurrected in a post about Donna Brazille but in another direction...
The poster wants to know how Donna Brazille went from the bane of this board to it's darling overnight....

I worship at the altar of intellectual, moral, and ethical consistency.... No cause, candidate, or movement are worth violating these principles for in the absence of these principles you have surrendered your morality which is what makes us human...

[JaneQPublic]

62. Then likewise I would suggest to you...

...that when responding generally to the "tenor of this thread and not (a) specific statement," that you do so by clicking on the "reply" link at the bottom of the ORIGINAL message.

Since you clicked "reply" in MY message, your post contained the the phrase "Response to Reply #40" at the top, which tells people you're responding to that "specific statement."

If you need any further help with how forum threads work, feel free to ask.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Thank You....

How do I get the really cool emotive icons?

[Hep]

44. Bring it on!

If anyone has any HONEST criticism, they're welcome to bring it.

Not that I expect to see any HONEST criticism. Hasn't happened yet.

[Larkspur]

56. Gephardt, Kerry, and Kucinich will attack Dean in next debate

Gephardt spent more money in the 3rd quarter than he took in, so he'll need free air time to attack Dean.

Kerry is getting blown out in New Hampshire and needs free air time to continue to attack Dean

Kucinich will still be pissed at Dean's ads and will continue to look like a goof ball for attacking Dean over those ads. He also needs free air time to attack Dean

Lieberman will attack Dean indirectly over their Iraq war and tax cut/repeal positions but he's learned the hard way that attacking Dean directly hurts more then helps his floundering campaign.

Sharpton may or may not attack Dean. He's been quickly rebuked in public by other African American leaders for attacking Dean, so he may opt out of calling Dean a racist at the next debate.

CMB hasn't attacked any of them, but her campaign is going nowhere. She's looking for a spot on the Dem nominee's team.

Clark hasn't attacked now. He's a civilian political neophyte, so can't gage when he will attack. However, since Chris Lehane has joined the Clark Campaign, I expect attacks sometime soon. If he doesn't attack, he won't be able to distinguish himself from Dean, whose positions and style he's trying to mimic, but he's losing ground and looking less like a capable Presidential candidate at every debate. And he is not as an aggressive campaigner as Dean. Eisenhower never had to debate or campaign, but Clark does and he's not doing as well as the pre-announcement media hype was predicting. People are comparing Clark to the media hype and he's not living up to it.