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Ralph Nader is still a hero

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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:30 AM
Original message
Ralph Nader is still a hero
Just so you don't forget, Ralph is still a hero.

The Left seems to have forgotten his courageous battles against corporate greed and his tireless contributions to noble causes.

As far as him speculating a run in the Republican primaries, it was obviously a joke. (It would be a good thing by the way. I, for one, would register as a Republican just to vote against Bush in the primaries.) His reasoning was clear sarcasm:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/2003...
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. He is an old hero .....
gone bad ....

I will NEVER forgive that man, no matter WHAT his curriculum vitae ...
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. forgive him for what?
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. If you HAVE to ask ...
then there isnt much point in discussing it any further ....

I'll let YOU beat his bloody drum in silence .....
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I thought so. [n/t]
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Me either......
He is narcocistic.......
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nixon was a hero after China diplomacy. But things change.
There were lots of people who were idealistic and did much good, but I feel Nader needs to focus energy on local Green party elections if he's serious about doing good and NOT disrupting the Democrats' from kicking the Criminal-In-Chief out of office.
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Nixon/Nader = excellent comparison
Are you shitting me?

Last I recall, Nixon was a criminal.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I admit...mine was a dramatic example, still....
if he really cared about America he would have bowed out when it was clear Gore was going to need every vote.

for that matter, if he cared about the Green Party he would have bowed out. too bad.

he set back the party at least 10 or so years on national stage.

I think he should stick to writing consumer reports on unsafe vehicles and let the real candidates get it done.

I have more respect for Ross Perot because he was viable than I do for Nader. And my respect for Perot is pretty low.
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Samuraimad Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. yeah...
you keep telling yourself that.
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. good point
Did you actually make a point?
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. he is absolutely is
the repubs thank him everyday and will be glad to finance his 2004 campaign!
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Correct me if I'm wrong...
Correct me if I'm wrong...

But I seem to recall George Bush stealing the election.

Or did I miss something?

Or are you merely blaming EVERYONE but Gore for Gore's loss?

How desperate. What a sore loser.

My guess is the repubs are thanking Bush for stealing the election. Especially since Gore still managed to win the popular vote.
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. stealing becuase thanks to Nader the margin wasn't high enough
spin it however you want. 90+k people in FL vote for Nader because they believed his "there's no difference between the candidates" lie...

of course he has the right to run and say however, he's just not a hero, not to me at least
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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. your spin...
I choose to blame Bush.

You choose to blame Nader. Not Nader voters, but Nader.

I think my case is stronger.

Spin it how you want.
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LiberalLibra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. If it hadn't been for Nader splitting the left Bush wouldn't be.....
....in the WH today, Nader just made it easier for the USSC to steal an election out from under the Amurikun people.
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. You hit the nail on the head
To build a 3rd party you can't start at the top it has to be built from the bottom up. What Nader did was help the right and caused turmoil on the left. I really like a lot of what Nader stands for but it can't win. It isn't that he doesn't deserve to win it is that too many Americans can't think outside the box - they aren't ready for a third party. They have a hard enough time dealing with the obvious differences between the repukes and the Dems. By adding another choice to those of us who lean to the left you are asking them to think too much - Americans have become intellectually lazy.

The prime example is the Right who think what they are told to think, wouldn't that make life easier if you didn't have to make choices. Personally I think it is very sad kind of like being a s
Stepford Wife.
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RichM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. He is indeed.
He is exactly right on all of this (from the article):

"...Nader and liberal Democrats agree at least one point: that the Bush presidency has been "beyond terrible," in Nader's words, for issues such as the environment and civil rights.

The president, he said, "is wrecking our economy, surrendering our government to corporate power more than ever, and alienating many of our former friends around the world by militarizing foreign policy."

But Nader is just as scathing toward the opposition Democrats, whom he accuses of capitulating to the conservative president.

"They could have stopped both of his tax cuts, his unconstitutional war ... the notorious massive assault on our civil liberties ... but they don't do any of this," he complained.

Nader said he still stands by his 2000 campaign statement that the two parties are virtually the same. "The Democrats are D-plus, the Republicans are D-minus," he said. "On foreign and military policy it's hard to find any difference."...


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jafap Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. the cult of personality
Why does Ralph seem to be more important than Ralph's platform? If he really believes in his platform, why does he work so hard to undermine it?

He says:

"They could have stopped both of his tax cuts, his unconstitutional war ... the notorious massive assault on our civil liberties ... but they don't do any of this," he complained."

Is he unaware that about 90% of Democrats voted against those tax cuts, and many of them voted against the war? It is so ridiculous for him to complain about anything the Bush administration does, because none of those things would have happened had Gore been President. The math is pretty simple that those votes that went to Nader could have given Gore the electoral votes. And if Ralph had used some of his celebrity drawing-power to help elect Mondale or Carnahan, then he could have been instrumental in stopping the second Bush tax cut. Hell, he could have run for the Senate in Kansas, where there wasn't even a Democratic candidate for him to undermine. Instead he gets to play Mr. Perfect and try to get more donations to Public Citizen, which for all the good work it may have done has also served to make Ralph rich, famous, and powerful. He's lucky he gets to work for me, because none of my employers have ever paid so well.

McReynolds is in the same boat, but at least he did not get major media attention by running a "bash Gore" campaign.

As far as being on the left, I have been a socialist since 1984, and I recently took an on-line quiz which would tell me which candidate most closely matches my own views. The answer came back 100% Green. Still I am going to vote ABB. So if you want to talk about economics, environment, or civil liberties, that would be cool, but do not speak to me of traitors. Stick to the issues.

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ChadCoffman Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. Oops, I just realized...
I just realized I was posting to the DEMOCRATIC underground. My bad.

Where does one go online to mingle amongst fellow leftists?
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. we welcome you. just vote for the right guy this time. LOL.
I would figure if you read your article you linked that you might infer such a response from die hard Democrats.

However, Terwilliger might commisserate with you about the glories of Nader. Just a guess.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well, you'll find plenty here...
Edited on Fri Jul-18-03 02:07 AM by unfrigginreal
just don't claim to be the BE ALL for everybody on this board. We come in many stripes.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Worshipping Nader is "leftist?"
"Democratic" means, in one sense, tolerant of many views. You're entitled to worship Nader here. You're not the only one. Others are entitled to disagree with you.

I hope you'll hang around. Welcome to DU.

:toast:
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JackSwift Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. BULLSHIT!!! The Tolkien analogy is Saruman!
He has become evil, the thing against which he fought. Nader is evil, evil, evil. And Greens are the Uruk Hai. Take your opinion and shove it!
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LiberalLibra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
20. As a consumer advocate there was none better than Nader, as a....
....2000 candidate he was the worst and in a few short months erased any memory of all the good he had ever done.

I wouldn't vote for Nader as a dead dog catcher.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
21. I congratulate you on your restraint...
...just one or two threads of this nature each night.

Just so we don't forget? Why would we forget? Could it be him saying there's no difference between Gore and Bush? Has he LIVED thru the last three years? Can he still say that now?

Whatever...what will be your topic tomorrow?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. This Is So Silly
If Nader didn't run in 2003 Al Gore would have been the 43rd president.


Nader got a paltry 2.75% of the vote but his 90,000 votes in Florida would have been more than enough to erase Bush's 537 vote margin in that state.

Nader's candidacy made it close enough for Bush to steal.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. no he hasn't live through the last three years
he is rich and nothing touches him. He never was a hero, though I admit he is pretty good at manipulating people to his own advantage.
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Liberator_Rev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. Only NOW he's a hero to the G.O.P.
Nader is STILL spouting his lie that the Democrats are the same as the Republicans. What would Nader have accomplished without Democrats to get his ideas enacted, over the resistence of Republicans? NOTHING! And he has the balls to promote that monstrous LIE !!
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/DemsvsGOP shows just how different these two parties are and how everybody but deaf, dumb and blind followers of Nader KNOW IT!
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. I never said Ralph was bad as a consumer advocate
He excelled at that job and was a valuable asset to the people.

As a politician he's pretty weak.
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