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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:33 AM
Original message
Daschle's revelation is huge
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 12:35 AM by EarlG
This is the relevant section from the joint resolution:

(a) That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2001pressrelea...

According to Daschle, Bush wanted that to read:

(a) That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force in the United States and against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Remember this?
"Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." -- George W. Bush, Sept 20, 2001

But George wanted "any nation" to include the United States. And remind me again of the administration's definition of "supporting terrorism?"

"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists." -- John Ashcroft, December 10 2001

Oh the irony.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. And it's referring to MILITARY force
So ol' King George wanted to open a can o'whoopass on the US with the American military!
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. And what is it again that ole George & Rummy want to do w/ Posse Comitatus
:eyes:

All the puzzle pieces are coming together...I've been working on this puzzle for 4 years now and all of the sudden, the pieces I've been staring at are just jumping out at me and I'm putting the picture together.....
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
84. Noam Chomsky has been saying this for years...
All of the information is out there. That this administration are radical reactionary statists who want a totalitarian society with themselves in charge. The Pentagon is or has developed weapons used for crowd control (probably to be used here at home to put down dissent). It is known that they (DARPA) are trying develop hypersonic drones that can "survey" any city in the world.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and
John Ashcroft was a pious ass. And Bush is not King. He may like to be, but so far he's only convinced his koolaid drinkers to agree with him.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Perfect illustration of the first impulse of this misAdministration.
I can't believe it was Bubbleboy's because he is an idiot. This is pure Cheney with a dash of Rumsfeld.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. "This is pure Cheney with a dash of Rumsfeld." And, a sprig of Bolton, ...
... a few flakes of Hadley, a pinch of Kovner, a sprinkle of Wolfie, ... grab a barf bag quickly, because that AEI/PNAC blend of spices is no different than an entire bottle of epicac :puke:


Peace.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
91. and 100% BS ! n/t
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thecai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. His Distortion of Bible Quotes...
...fooled multitudes.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. that's HUGH!!!111
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
51. Stop that! Be series for once!
:evilgrin:
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have thought all along that they considered "We, the People" to be
their true enemy ... but to see it in print, with dots connected.

... How extraordinarily alarming.
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. It shows that, as we know about PNAC...
Many of these plans were laid WELL ahead of time. Bush came into office looking toward a crown.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Which begs the question...why did they grant this sick bastard
a blank check for war?

I still recall several senators including Feinstein that had met with El Baradi and knew the nuclear stuff was crap coming out of that closed door intelligence meeting and voting for IWR.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. The check they wrote isn't the check that was cashed, for one thing.
They authorized force as a last resort.

But, and I think this is what you're getting at, THEY ALL SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

They are career politicians. If WE knew better, why didn't they?

What war profit is great enough for the grief you will have to deal with later.
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Probably because
if you don't sign up to bomb somebody after getting attacked, you get accused of supporting the terrorists. It's a bit of Catch-22 really. Sign up, and you're helping the loon in the White House to get his war on. But don't sign up, and you're helping the terrorists - at least in the eyes of most Americans, at that time anyway. Obviously many people have since woken up to the fact that the war was a gross error. But I remember when the invasion of Iraq started and we posted our "We don't support this war" statement on the home page - we (and the left-wing blogosphere in general) were in a distinct minority at the time. We had every wingnut out there telling us that we were "helping the terrorists," and there were even some DUers who didn't disagree with the war at the beginning. Ah well, at least Daschle told Bush to stick that "in the United States" addition up his arse.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I remember I was hesitant to fly my peace flag
in a pretty liberal community near Los Angeles in the run up. If I felt that, can only imagine what the centrists felt, let alone people who considered themselves good Republicans.

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Oh I understand all of that and the "realpolitik" behind it
but why reveal this now rather than then?

I mean, glad he told him to stick it but even the wingnuts and the patriot groups would have shit twice with this knowledge
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #31
66. I Think ...
it's better it came out now, later. In 2001, moderates and apoliticals might not have had that big an issue with it - or a big enough issue to stink the house. Remember, 80% of the country was saying we had to rally around the President (barfs). They needed to see for themselves just how corrupt this adminstration is and its power-grabbing. Only hard-core lefties and hard-core conservatives would have been alarmed, and no one would have listened.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. Very good points
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
119. The Bushies got even w/Daschle
by kicking him out of the Senate. I'm glad Daschle is still speaking out.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
57. Howdy NSMA
Been a long time

:hi:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
70. Because BushCo told everyone
that they had secret intelligence that no one could see that proved their worst nightmares. Elected officials had no choice but to trust the President and anyone who dared not go along would be swift boated. Plus, if you voted against them and there was an attack, it would be your fault. They had everyone in Congress over a barrel.

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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
110. Good to see you back & full of fire as ever.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. My wife was even alarmed by this, and she's no political junkie...
I think this revelation will wake up a lot more people who have been sitting on the fence or happen to be somewhat passive in regards to what is going on in the nation. It's alarming that Bush wanted that kind of power WITHIN the United States -- :think: one is left to wonder exactly what his plans were if he had obtained Congressional approval to "use all necessary and appropriate force in the United States." I shudder at the thought. :yoiks:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yeah, right? Where was he going with that? Him and his pals...
PNAC, war without end, and other sordid places.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. A friend of mine had said prior to the 2004 election...
A friend of mine had said prior to the 2004 election that he would not have left office if he'd lost. I told him that Bush is nuts, but not THAT nuts. Because of the revelations of the last couple of days, I'm beginning to wonder. Not to sound tin-foilish, but I think the guy wants to do whatever is necessary to stay in power. Those dictator comments he's made...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I don't even think it's Monkey Boy, although he's clearly unbalanced.
There is a structure in place that is much bigger than he is.

It reminds me of the "seven families" that have run El Salvador since time immemorial, just more compact.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
86. There is a whole web of these terrorists
The not-so-secret, secret government of decision makers...

If you want to know who, just follow the money. Defense contractors, oil execs, etc.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #86
106. I have to agree....

the Orwellian subtext of all this is that Republicans at the highest levels are guilty as hell, and they will do anything it takes to stay in power. All the more reason to put Democrats in power, apply the Patriot Act to the true criminals, then reverse it once we know all the collateral mechanisms have been dealt with. No longer do I feel tin-foilish about this, I can point to neocon writings and testimony (which I have done in other posts) that fully support this conclusion.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
96. Bushboy is just the "good ole boy" figurehead for the
PNACers.

They're smart enough to know that the public would never warm to Vampire Cheney in the top job, so they set up another Reagan, another doofus who puts on a good "aw shucks, just plain li'l ol' me" act and says all the right things to get the fundies and ignoramuses all gaga over him.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #96
103. That's right. I have a feeling this won't work for them a 3rd time.
I can't imagine how awful it must be to be a real Republican and watch the havoc being done to that party by these criminals. They are much less skillful than the crew around Reagan -- and THEY weren't all that good.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why didn't Daschle come forward before this?
What other stuff is being hidden from us? Whe is the next shoe going to drop?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Um, didn't they try to kill him once already?
That might make you stop and think?
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I remember...do you think there might be new attacks on some
people that have become a danger to His Highness?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Cheney has been threatening them since the story broke, as
far as I can tell.

It's not going to be pretty. :(
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Beth, did you see that that letter was mailed the same f'ing day?
as when they refused to change the wording and pass this thing. i just doublechecked. Sept 18th on both.
:scared:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. I just did.
Yes, it's scary. But it would be worse not to know what we're up against.

:hug:
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
99. I confess, I am a little scared for our leaders.
I hope they are being very careful. The courageous reporters, too, although there are few of them. Bloggers better take care also.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
114. Sorry, but it would make me MADDER and fight a THOUSAND TIMES HARDER
I hate cowards, Daschle being one of them, in my opinion.

I don't have a single good thought or thing to say about him.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. One word -- ANTHRAX. n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. a-n-t-h-r-a-x
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. You know, if one were to engage in this kind of behavior
would it be too unreasonable to assume that if the guy who blocked your attempt to expand the war on terrorism to American citizens was endangered in a domestic terrorist attack, he might be a bit more compliant the next time the request came up?
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. He might be, but if Daschle had come out right after the attack,
he might have been able to shed the light of suspicion on King George himself. To be sure, it would have been a dangerous game and he might have lost his life.

Will anyone be surprised if some of the dems that are speaking out now get a suspicious letter in the mail? I won't be.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. I believe these people are capable of anything. n/t
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
76.  Given the spirit of the time (after 9-11)
I think few would have believed him.
If I remember, bush had 85-90% approval at that time.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. Which Begs Yet Another Question
What did Peter Jennings know? And the others.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
75. I'd like to hear what the Coincidence Theorists have to say.
After all, we know that 'conspiracies' rarely occur and the political world is ruled by coincidences, right? :eyes:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #75
101. Conspiracies are only for the little people...
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
98. Yes, and not only that,
they might feel it would be too obvious to threaten or harm Daschle again, and perhaps Daschle has arranged to make himself safe in the meantime with information stored in a "safe" location in case something should happen to him.

God, that sounds so paranoid. I am not a paranoid person, but what else can I think?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. I believe that Daschle & so many others have been waiting for the right
moment to come forward....And now is the time....Timing is everything and if only one of them came forward at the wrong time, then who knows, maybe a family member gets hurt or worse. But if the timing is right, the public prepared for the truth, then "accidents" don't happen so easily or unnoticed. Also, that means more people have the courage to come forward.

I think everyone has been afraid and just hoping that after one term, no a second term, that the nightmare would be over. But the realization is that Bush, Cheney and the whole cabal are very dangerous and this is about life and death.

I can imagine now how our founding fathers felt when they realized what they must do in taking on King George.

"Live Free or Die"..."Give me Liberty or give me Death"....wow, these words ring so powerfully true....
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. Remember the Anthrax letter?
n/t
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
34. Anthrax?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
56. Anthrax was mailed the same day this passed. 9/18.....
who wanted to send what message to Tom Daschle?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #56
77. One guess who Bush blamed for the anthrax letters
President Bush would not rule out Osama bin Laden -- already branded as the mastermind behind the September 11 attacks against the United States -- as the culprit in the anthrax incidents.

"We have no hard data on that yet, but it's clear that Mr. bin Laden is a man who is an evil man," Bush said during a White House appearance where he talked about the Daschle letter. "He and his spokesmen are openly bragging about how they hope to inflict more pain on our country, so we're watching every piece of evidence.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/conditions/10/15/an... /
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #77
102. i totally forgot that it was Judy Miller all over this, with the anthrax
book hitting the bestseller list. Incredible timing, huh?

"On November 13, PBS--adding fuel to the fire--aired a ninety-minute Nova special based on Germs. It was as much about the book's three authors as it was about bioweapons. Over and over we were treated to glimpses of Broad earnestly scribbling notes while interviewing experts, and to shots of Miller--dressed in various protective raiment--preparing to enter germ plants around the world. Interviewed at her desk, Miller dramatically recreated the moment when she opened the powder-filled envelope. "I realize that this really is a weapon of mass disruption...and that the disruption can be just as debilitating to a society...as actual deaths," she said. Yet the Nova program itself seemed to go out of its way to stoke public fears about bioterrorism, describing mass-death scenarios against a backdrop of creepy horror-movie music. The program ended with an 800 number viewers could call to order Germs."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011217/massing

"Miller's reporting on WMD follows a pattern established with her articles on the anthrax attacks of October 2001 . The Bush Administration quickly labeled the attacks "terrorism," without being more explicit, but Miller weighed in with a co-bylined front-pager, labeled "news analysis," that implied Al Qaeda might be responsible. She wrote that according to one scientist, the discovery of expertly processed anthrax "casts serious doubt" on the theory that the attacks were the work of a lone amateur. "'I do think in one form or another, a state was involved,' one former American scientist said.... Nor is it clear whether Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden's network, was involved in any way. American intelligence officials say Mr. bin Laden has tried to acquire nuclear, chemical and biological weapons."

After the Post reported that it seemed to be the work of a "lone amateur" after all, Miller simply dropped the matter. On the same day that the Post was excising the foreign connection, Miller was back with more Osama in a co-bylined story headlined "Al Qaeda Sites Point to Tests of Chemicals," with the subhead "U.S. Suspects Bin Laden of Producing Mass Poison; U.S. Intelligence Pointed Out Two Afghan Locations Where Chemical Warfare May Be in the Making." The article itself contained numerous disclaimers about the suspected connection: "Collecting intelligence about facilities of this sort is an inexact science at best; intelligence officials and policy makers have learned from past mistakes to be wary when using such information.""

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20030623&s=ba...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. I STILL remember her Larry King interview -- part of her book tour --
and my belly flippin like mad because something was just wrong.

As Earl points out, Junior was fingering binLaden and when that didn't pan out (and how could it?), they went after Hatfil (sp?) -- just as they would go after Ritter later.

What a piece of work these b@stards are.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. Right, I remember this!
and I remember thinking that Judith Miller's book, and all the MSM that were allowing her to promote it, were spreading propaganda to distract from who the real Anthrax threat was coming from.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. He's met the enemy
And it is us.
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. I agree 100% that this revelation by Tom Daschle is huge, but
it will be interesting to see how this plays out later on today in the corporate media.

I'm expecting nothing but extra long "spin cycles" from the Pukes tomorrow on all the network and cable shows.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I don't believe it will get much play. Not this week, especially.
But eventually, it will. Because it is huge and because the people have had it up to their eyeballs.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Our Democracy is up to us, not the corporate media.
n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #28
38. Exactly.
:toast:
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. I'm starting to think it doesn't matter what the spin and rinse cycles of
the Presstitutes are....the conversations are taking place right here, on the blogs, on the internet, in the Coffee shops, between friends and neighbors, with strangers on the street.

People are outraged and they are not going to be turning the channel or swallowing the garbage any longer....I think its different this time....I really do...I'm noticing it...I've never seen so many emails flying, even from my Republican relatives who have been sitting on the fence for so long.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
89. People are Outraged....
Hear it everywhere I go, and that's saying a lot for this kid.

Neighbors I barely know... they bring it up constantly.
While out and about: All the time... strangers just wanting to spew their outrage about this and everything else from *&Co.

Amazingly, Faux News watchers: Many debating all of this for a long time and will tell you, "And, I'm a Republican!"

Everyone knows and is outraged. They just don't know what to do. F-E-A-R was a big part of it.

The one thing everyone says is "He and all of them need to be Impeached," with great emphasis.
They want their country back to normacly, too.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
88. If it is major news the media will ignore it...
When they can't ignore it anymore, they'll downplay it...
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. Have I've told you, how much I hate these basters?!?!
IMPEACH NOW!!!
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
113. The Real Repubs have a choice to make
Do they continue to go along with this Administration, or do they distance themselves and agree with Impeachment? Who in their right mind would ever vote for another Repub?
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
35. I'm trying to come up with something to say here
The cabal has been given a free ride all along. Anyone who calls them on their lies is branded and until recently run out as traitors and America haters. The righties continue to want to sit in their supposed comfort with a big strong war president protecting them.
We can only hope that enough will come together and ought the lying thieving bunch that has taken over all aspects of our country.

Daschle really crawled in his hole when he got the anthrax clue. Very nice to see him play a part in outing the crooks.
:dem:
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
36. They use the patriot act to pursue ordinary criminals.
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 01:32 AM by Neil Lisst
It's already a grossly abused statute. They use the anti-terror unit on some poor UFO researcher who surveilled area 51. They're out of control on the stuff we KNOW they've done.

They show no signs of self restraint of any kind, much like Bush.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Dachle's ANTHRAX letter was mailed the SAME DAY as he refused to let this
last minute change to include Americans in the wording pass...
September 18th. Holy shit. And of course that was one investigation they really pulled out all the stops for.
Betcha they won't find any anthrax investigating in those wire taps...when the FOIAS come out, huh?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Bingo. n/t
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. i saw you upthread and posted it to you.
credit goes to Madison Progressive, but I double checked it.
HOLY SHIT. This deserves it's own thread.
A day in the life of Tom Daschle, Sept 18, 2001.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. It does deserve its own thread.
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 01:42 AM by sfexpat2000
Just do it.

:)

/cr@p! its/it's
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Okay, i''m going to have to steal from everybody else here... is this GD
or GD Politics?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. I think GD but then, I don't venture into GD Politics very often
:scared:

lol
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. GD it's there now, i i dunno, i am tired and it's kinda lame...
and it could use a bit of an edit. GD scares me. and i owe a credit to Mad Prog, too.
ay yay yay. i suck at posting this serious stuff. Let me know what you think is missing or superflous.
i need a whiskey right now.--back in a jif.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. It's perfect. Thank you! n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
74. What're the chances??? I'd like to hear from the Coincidence Theorists.
Yep. Just a coincidence. On the same day Daschle blocked the adminstration's power grab, he was sent an anthrax letter. Same day. Same guy.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
48. The revelation IS huge.
And I can't believe Daschle of all folks was the one to put it out there. Go, Tom! contrary to the whining of some miscreants out there, the Dems are playing hardball. Thanks, kids!
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
49. Let's also not forget...
Bush's attempts to federalize the Louisiana National Guard after Katrina. He's a persistent little Preznit Addle-brained Coke head.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
50. The first paragraph makes no sense the way it's written.
The first half of the sentence is clear in limiting him to only those persons who were involved in any way with, and only with the attacks that occurred on 9-11. It is date specific. So this wording, even if it did include the words United States, gives him no authority for anything after 9-11 unless they were persons involved with 9-11. It does not give authority for any general acts or other suspected possible acts of terror.

And the second half of the sentence refers to those who "harbored" persons in order to prevent any future act. Why would you harbor someone to prevent a terror act? You would harbor someone so they could commit a terror act.

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. i think the blanket authorisation is against Al Queda....
and it's associates. Since it wasn't an act of a particular nation, we couldn't declare war on a nation. but it spread to Al Queda to just Terra in general, huh?
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. The dangers of the run-on sentence....
FWIW, I am sure the intent is as follows (even though the sentence is, as you noted, ambiguous):

(a) That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.


The sentence would be clearer if the last clause were placed first:

(a) That, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States, the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons.

Sinistrous
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Okay, but that is how I tried (not too well) to explain my take on it....
but my grammer is not the greatest.
as you can well see here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. 10-4.
But it also lacks wording for any authority to investigate, use force or surveil persons with terror intent PERIOD. Fortunately they did botch it. This numbnuts would have had us in World War III.

If Gonzalez is relying on this for his authority to go hippety hopping around without warrants, he's in deep trouble.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #59
78. That's why the Justice Department lawyer wrote yesterday's letter.
It's their claim that investigation and surveillance are inherently authorized when military force is authorized. That, of course, begs the questions regarding who and where ... and it seems that when we (jokingly?) observed that the Regime was as logically authorized to bomb and invade Michigan (Tim McVeigh), the Regime was thinking(?) exactly the same way ... but not jokingly at all.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. It's a War On Law...
The neocons don't seem to get that the whole point of law is that it's based on precise definitions and limits not assumptions, word associations and wishful thinking.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #85
90. That's why they're "Strict Destructionists"
:shrug:
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
112. - there are already laws regarding wire taps and * knew that....
and this ain't one of them.

but it matters to RWers if they buy the arguement that bush was given carte blanche to use any means neccesary against anyone at all- which is the meme they were just throwing out this week. because that's BS
it matters to EVERYONE who is concerned about the erosion of civil rights in this country, because the attempts to do this to just that are on record.
As posted elsewhere, the laws on wiretaps are very very specific and this ain't one of them... he is trying to get us off point and also blame congress for giving him a blank check.
They need to be reminded right now, by us, exactly how limited the resolution was.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
60. Another nail...IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!
What a parade of pathos this has become. I feel so bad for all those who knew informaiton like this and failed to reveal it. But then again, we've known the truth here about the theft of two elections and we're pretty noisey here and elsewhere...AND NOTHING IS DONE.

Would have been nice if Tom D has released this at the time. The paleo conservatives would have bolted much sooner. Perhaps not at the time this would have been released but much sooner than the drip, drip , drip that is now turning into a torrent.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #60
83. Look up above what some of the others said....
Anthrax was the reason Dashle didn't come forward.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
61. Remember, the legal memos of John Yoo later told Bush he DIDN'T NEED
THE PERMISSION OF CONGRESS TO DECLARE WAR. See the links under the excerpt in the opening post of this thread and also the excerpt from the New Yorker article in the early replies in the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title (12/20 GD): New LAT op/ed from JOHN YOO, the legal enabler of the IMPERIAL BUSH

Yoo also told Bush other things he wanted to hear, like that he could set aside the Geneva conventions at his whim. Basically that he could do anything he wanted without asking. So he could sign and executive order, as he did for the NSA spying, and it would be according to Yoo's version of Constitutional law. But they still kept it secret, because someone must have told Bush that not everyone would agree.

And apparently, still-classified Yoo memo(s) from 2002 gave the "legal" foundation for the NSA domestic spying:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (12/22 LBN): NYT: Untested Aide Laid Legal Basis For White House Terror Policies

As for why Daschle hasn't said anything until now, I am still troubled about the nearly $42,000 Abramoff gave him according to the Washington Post:

Harry Reid, by the way, got $47,000 from Abramoff according to the Post.

Was there blackmailing to ensure compliance with the Administration? And is Daschle coming forward now in part because Abramoff is going to be singing anyway? I don't think we can dismiss this possibility out of hand. We need to study the many Dems and Dem committees who received significant money from Abramoff. What did he and his administration cronies get in return?

I'm glad that Dascle is speaking at last, whatever his motives. But we ignore at our peril the fact that the corruption isn't confiined to the GOP.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Until this was put together for me, I didn't understand
fully that Daschle and others were physically and immediately threatened.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. yeah, that anthrax letter to Daschle does make one think.
And we need to find out what was going on with the money from Abramoff.

I do think that one purpose for the massive spying, besides political power and suppression of dissent, is gathering blackmailable information to keep both Dems and GOPs and supporters in line. Helloooo Jeff Gannon, helloooo Cunningham's pleasure flat with the extra bedrooms. But I bet there was a LOT of this. Blackmail isn't just for money, it'f for control of all types. Is this part of the explanation for the compliance at every turn that allowed the Bushies to do what they have?
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #63
95. Absolutely this has been on my mind as well.
We've all been puzzled as to why all Dems seemed to have been neutered - bet that spying came in handy when they needed 'bi-partisan' support now didn't it?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #61
80. Looks like the ol' "carpet of gold or carpet of bombs (anthrax)" policy ..
... doesn't it? This is the Repukelicker version of a "offer they couldn't refuse."
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
64. K&R
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
65. gee! There was a troll invoking the joint resolution as source for W's
unlimited powers. I guess, like with the elections, W thought he won it anyway!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
68. To us it is, not to the media
I've not heard a single one of them call * a liar yet, even though the list of his lies weighs as much as the Sunday NYT. To us it's another in a long string of perjurious and treasonous acts by the Resident. To them it's just another outrage to be ignored.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
69. CNN Headline DOWNPLAYS this:Daschle: Wiretaps never discussed with Congres
Daschle: Wiretaps never discussed with Congress

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/23/domestic.spying....

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The use of warrantless wiretaps on American citizens was never discussed when Congress authorized the White House to use force against al Qaeda after the September 11 attacks, says former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.

.....That is how they start out this story, totally downplaying the most important fucking part!!!

<snip>

In an article printed Friday on the op-ed page of The Washington Post, Daschle also wrote that Congress explicitly denied a White House request for war-making authority in the United States.

"This last-minute change would have given the president broad authority to exercise expansive powers not just overseas ... but right here in the United States, potentially against American citizens," Daschle wrote.

"The Bush administration now argues those powers were inherently contained in the resolution adopted by Congress -- but at the time, the administration clearly felt they weren't or it wouldn't have tried to insert the additional language," the South Dakota Democrat wrote.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
71. Seeking to wage war against the USA is an act of treason.
This administration has officially become domestic enemies. They should be removed, immediately: handcuffed, held without bail until trial.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
73. "They stand against us, because we stand in their way."
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." (Applause.) :argh:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/2001092...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #73
117. I'm definitely against THEM. Guess I'm with the terra-ists, then.
PROUDLY.

Because I could never "be with THEM"!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
79. It's a DAMNED SMOKING GUN is what it is!
It demonstrates they KNEW they did not hhave the authority and they went ahead and did it anyway.

It proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bush administration knowingly violated USC. Title 50, Chapter 36, Subchapter I., Sections 1802, 1804, 1805, 1806, 1807, and 1808 more than thrity times and have promised to continue violating the law!
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #79
105. How many smoking guns does it take to impeach?
nt
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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
81. This is why we need a strong United Nations.
And this is why *ush wishes to dismantle it. THINK ABOUT IT.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
82. K&R
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
87. kick
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
92. If only we could impeach.
But with a republican controlled congress impeachment is a far out dream.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
93. Screw South Dakota ;
For voting him out.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
94. Kick.
thanks, Earl.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
97. kick...........
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
100. Exactly like Ireland with British troops
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 01:52 PM by symbolman
THIS country is now OCCUPIED by Corporations. Those Darth Vaders in the Streets are NOT here to protect US from Terrorists. They are here to maintain order as the Corporations ROB us. Bush is their Puppet and this has been planned for a long time.

Think about it. WE ARE NOW OCCUPIED BY CORPORATIONS. Just like the Middle East. WE are Iraqis now, check out who is running New Orleans now - Rove and CHENEY, ANOTHER Halliburton score right HERE.

WE have less RIGHTS than Corporations. My advice to anyone in the US right now (okay so it sounds nuts now) is to INCORPORATE YOURSELF. You may find that you will THEN have more rights returned to you than you have now.

I had an attorney get really drunk one night in college, a pal, and he laid it out for me in a way I had never thought about. He said, "Look bub.. those cops in the street? THEY are NOT here to 'protect' Your Rights. THEY are here to PROTECT LAND OWNERS. HOME Owners, people that have PROPERTY. Other than that, they are simply 'garbage collectors'.."

I'd never realised that, but it chilled me to the bone.

This Govt, the Corporations, the Media are AT WAR with the American Public, for most of us are Prisoners already, credit cards, low wages, no healthcare, no guaranteed housing. I once wrote a song (and please forgive the language for I am not using it in a derogatory fashion if you think about it), called "I'm a Nigger Too.."

"Don't matter about the Color of Your Skin..

Only matters,

if you are on the INSIDE,

Or the OUTSIDE,

Looking IN.."

That's why Takebackthemedia.com existed from the start, This is a PR WAR that we can WIN - IF we use the Media against itself, that's why Greenwald is striking at the HEART of the BEAST, and is to be admired mightily.

WE HAVE to organize - Takebackthemedia.com held a Media Summit during the Boston Democratic Convention, we brought together film makers, writers, websites, bloggers, etc and tried to come up with a plan to create a HUGE BEAST so that together we can FIGHT these guys.

I called the major websites the "13 Original Cyber Colonies" - the DU, Buzzflash, Media Matters, Takebackthemedia.com, Atrios, Daily Kos, Bartcop, Smirking Chimp and others, and we STILL need to do it - but with Integrity, not that we can't tear a few pages from the Right Wing's manual, but with FACTS, Entertainment, Enlightenment & Education we can WIN..

That's why TBTM has created three films (my latest is "Rove's War") over 50 Flash political attack ads, and have boycotted Limbaugh to great effect, Forced CNN to put 750 words back into a Hans Blix report in the same AFTERNOON, assisted MoveOn as a finalist in their Bush in 30 Seconds Contest, and many other things.

If anyone wants to get serious about fighting the media we need to ORGANIZE, as long as it's "every site for itself" we are doomed.

Great thread EarlG - Here's a little light-hearted Humor after such a scary topic - my latest just in time for this Christmas, my Interactive Flash "MERRY FITZMAS" Links and instructions below :) :

******************

"I wanted a Fitzmas Tree ever since I heard the term invented on the Web, and NOW by god I have one, and you can too..

YOU can actually DECORATE YOUR OWN FITZMAS TREE, by dragging and dropping Ornaments on the FITZMAS TREE - if an Ornament sticks to your "hand" it may be because of the slimy people encased within, just give it another mouse click on the tree to shake it off. The first flash can be found here:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmas.swf

But there are two Flashes that interact with each other - one is the Fitzmas Tree itself, with a box FULL of decorations, the decorations being the Subjects of Indictments, Investigations, etc - something your Right Wing brother-in-law might also be interested in knowing, lots of facts

If you click (click all over the page, lots of surprises on it) on the TITLE's of the Flashes you can go between the Tree itself, and another Flash that will load up with all the Decorations and an explanation of WHO they are, and WHAT they did.. for folks that don't know much about the Plame Outing they can get educated on the Ornaments and then click on back to the Tree and Decorate the Hell out of it

The first link goes to the Fitzmas Tree itself, but like I said, you can click to the other Flash for more info, or a pal can get more info and Trim the Tree after.

You can check out the Ornaments information at this link secondly (but maybe miss some surprises where the Presents are in the first link) HERE:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmasornaments.sw...

In case you're wondering what that building is in the background, it's the HAGUE, I thought it rather appropriate - and the guys in ORANGE, well, I think you'll recognize them

And don't forget to open the presents under the FITZMAS TREE, I wrapped them special just for YOU."

**********

For those rabid "christians" who want to suck the joy out of this time of PEACE ON EARTH - GOODWILL TO MEN, I have a greeting..

"Merry Bankruptcy!"

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. Check out who has bought into Time-Warner and Fox.....

Saudi Royalty!
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #109
115. Yes, and GE took out MSFT today.
They are getting nervous.






"Country's run by media thugs" - guerrillafinga
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. Don't forget the Carlyle Group
I think they have Viacom AND in the Islands of Hawaii they are buying up phone services etc at an alarming rate..

We actually need to OWN the media, get groups of people to donate and then take Blocks of money to BUY Blocks of STOCK and become shareholders in some groups - gain some real control..

Takebackthemedia.com has some ideas on that we're working on..
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
108. k&r
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
111. Trying to nullify Posse Comitatus
They were looking for a legal justification for enacting marshal law. It has nothing to do with combatting terrorism. The scary thing is that if they got their desired wording, it would have essentially nullified Posse Comitatus.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
118. Hope So
Will someone in the Senate stand strong and decide to leave their political career behind for the sake of bold justice?

It's time for the Dems to rally strong. It's late in the game.
We need this now.

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