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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:09 AM
Original message
Republicans are Reliving the Glory Days of Watergate
Ive listened recently to the Republican mouthpieces on the radio and news complaining that the Democrats are trying to relive the glory days of Watergate. I think they have it completely wrong.

Its not the Democrats that are trying to relive the glory days of Watergate; its the Republicans. Just like they wanted to re-fight the Vietnam War, revisit the McCarthy hearings, and re-write the Civil Rights Law, they now want to lock horns in their biggest battle ever; Watergate, impeachment and the resignation of Dick Nixon.

I dont know how I didnt see it before. Certain neo-cons have been bitter about the embarrassment of tricky Dick and their entire party for over 30 years. Oh sure, they paid lip service to integrity, honor, and abuse of power while Dick was in the soup, but they never really believed that getting rid of that cancer on America was right. Theyve convinced themselves that all Watergate did was diminish the power of the presidency, and they are bound and determined to take that power back.

Theyve believed all along that we should have an imperial presidency. Theyve believed all along that the president knows best. Theyve believed all along that Nixon didnt simply run our Constitution through the shredder, but that he had every right to to run our Constitution through the shredder.

In a way, Im glad that they are finally beginning to show themselves for what they are. Let them relive the glory days of Watergate, for that is a battle they are destined to lose.

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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Watergate, for young impressionable Repubs like Karl Rove
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 11:23 AM by greenman3610
and Rush Limbaugh was formative in their insecure, adolescent years. Bad enough to be
a closeted gay geek, but to have your president go down
in ignominious defeat at the hands of those damn
hippies who were already getting all the sex anyway
was just TOO DAMN MUCH.

And they've been trying to avenge it ever since...
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good insight!
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 11:23 AM by kenny blankenship
I'm not sure if knowing what makes Refucklicans tick can aid us at all, but it certainly does add to the nausea I experience thinking about them.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It why I don't think this story will go anywhere
There are not enough Republicans with integrity to stand up to this cabal.

These are the holdovers from the Nixon years that wanted Dick to fight it out.

They see nothing wrong with "emenies lists", using the FBI, CIA, and NSA to spy on Americans, bribes, break-ins, etc.

If it will increase their hold on power, then the Constitution be damned.

Actually caught some of Rush on my way to "Taco Hell", and he had the audacity to say; "what are we worried about?, the only people complaining about this are the ones that are afraid we'll find out what their doing. Their afraid we'll find out what perverted things they are doing, or what they have to hide"....

and I thought to myself; "yeah Rush, you mean like Medical Records and shit?"

All I know is that when Rush is using Clinton as an example to justify Bush, we really have gone through the looking glass.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Freedom is Slavery?
"<...> Rush <...> had the audacity to say: "what are we worried about? The only people complaining about this are the ones that are afraid we'll find out what they're doing."

Does Rush believe that the freedom to have private phone conversations makes Americans the slaves of terrorists?

Given that the President of the United States has a duty to represent all the people, would Rush be happy if the President were to make the following announcement?

"If you are hearing my voice through a system that has recording equipment attached to it, then please insert a fresh tape or other storage device into your system and begin recording. What I am about to say is very important and you will want your own recording of my words."

"The phone system has been secretly redesigned and, when I finish this speech, the new system will be operational. You will have a new option: to call without causing a phone to ring. If you use this new option then, instead of a ring, you will hear silence. If you use this new option then, instead of a busy signal, you will hear what's happening on the line."

"From your own phone or even from a pay phone in the United States, you will be able to listen to any conversation on the phone system. If the call you are listening to involves a US phone number, then the government will pay all long-distance fees. It's the least we can do considering that we will not pay you an hourly wage for lending your ears to the cause of Homeland Security."

"This is an unprecedented step, but it is a necessary step. In these dangerous times, all Americans must be vigilant. The only people who will complain about this new measure are the ones who are afraid that we'll find out what they're doing. I know that white collar crime has been in the news lately. To motivate ordinary Americans to start taking advantage of the new system, I will now read a list of the names of our largest 500 corporations, the names of their CEOs, and the home and business phone numbers (including cell phone numbers) of those CEOs..."
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Not just "americans" - only "DEMOCRATIC Americans".
We have to constantly clarify that point.
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TheGunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Darn tootin'! We've been letting out the rope & they're hangin' themselves
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. This makes sense.
The Republican Party has spent the last thirty years aligning power groups and the media so that they can get away with anything. Bush, as their leader, has hijacked the country in the name of safety... and it looks as if the only glimmer of hope left is in what little is left of a balancing court system... and that's due to crash if Alito is confirmed.

I don't know what else to say.

Sue
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's all about Cheney.
Cheney is the connection between the two generations. He has wanted to have the presidential powers increased since Nixon resigned in disgrace.

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Gronk Groks Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ever thought that if shrub is impeached, that Cheney will be pResident?
Maybe the Imperial Presidency isn't for the shrub, maybe it is for his succesor... :tinfoilhat:

After all, when the puppet isn't needed any longer...
...the puppet-master just cuts his strings... :scared:

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after me. :hide:
Snoop-gate proved that.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Oh sure, I say bring it on.
Patrick Fitzgerald will uncover in Plamegate or one of these other scandals will be sure to turn over the rock where Cheney has all his worms under. Truth will out and the criminals will be found out at the end of this story... or that is what I am holding on to.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Like the liner notes im The Who's Quadrophenia Album
"my shrink has this sign in his office that makes me smile. It says; 'a paranoic is someone that has a pretty good idea what's really going on'".

I feel you dude. - Max
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DaveT Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I have to disagree with the general drift, here . . .
because I do not believe that Bush, Cheney and Company care about the Republic at any level. Everything they say publicly is cover -- playing the game. They say they want to "reassert the power of the Presidency" in this high minded, philosphical sense of the Big Picture. Bullshit. If a Clinton, a Gore or a Kerry ever picked up the battle cry of "Institutional Presidential Authority," every one of these manipulative weasels would be screaming bloody murder about the Constitutional Balance of Separate and Co-Equal Branches.

They may have a boner on for losing Watergate, but only because they lost.

And losing is what they hate most of all.
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H2O Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Like the Sith
They use losing like a fuel to drive them foward. Its an obsession that has blinded them to true responsibilities of governingn this country. In addition to that, they have led they followers into a strong delusion, which, if allowed to continue will destroy this country and the world.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think it's even got that much basis
At this point, the repukes and their media shills are just throwing everything out there, regardless, and whatever sticks will become their next talking poing.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. You are so correct.....
They've had their panties in a knot for thirty years--longer if you count the 1960's, which really made 'em mad!
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. And Vietnam. But THIS time, Nixon and the war will go on forever.
The problem is that Nixon quit and the US quit instead of sticking it out. This time, they will never surrender.
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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Pat Buccannan was on Today, and was so Nixonian
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 09:24 PM by ecoalex
I got shivers as I watched Pat again after so many years the same old Bullshit;"the Presidency is an elevated office, not an equal" with the other branches. This is treason, as the Constitution clearly states, all three branches have the same amount of powers, none supercede any other.Any other interpretation is treason.



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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. They thought they had it with Clinton's impeachment
although the opposite effect happened and they ended up helping Clinton get the White House a second time.
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RogerARTcom Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. A Must Read
A Must Read

A Cabal of Criminality
By Manuel Valenzuela

What the Iraq/Bush war shows the world is how a Cabal of Criminality,

numbering less than a few hundred individuals,

can bamboozle a nation into a war whose ramifications on our future we cannot yet fully comprehend.

The Bush war,

the single-greatest blunder in Americas foreign policy history,

was spawned by greed-addicted corporatists and treasonous neo-con-artists,

press-titute lackeys and political hacks, placed in charge of US foreign policy.

click Continued @

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

also link at

http://www.rogerart.com /
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sideshow Bob said something after being busted for election fraud (!!!)...
if I were inspired I could probably Google it, but the gist of it is that "secretly, you want a Republican to rule you like a king!" And it's true. I don't know if it's because it's easy and reassuring to have someone else tell you what to do. Thugs (Thug men, at least) like to think of themselves as Marlboro Man types -- rugged, self-sufficient individualists -- but in reality they love having someone else tell them what to do.
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tirechewer Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. They have wanted....
The idiots have wanted to "enlarge" the presidency since Nixon. They tried first with Nixon and his dirty tricks and his lies and wiretapping and covert surveillance of ordinary Americans. They continued the trend with Reagan. He was never really in charge of anything though. He was in first stage Alzheimer's when he was elected. Remember how he would get confused if someone mixed up his cue cards, and how his events were invariably staged? It was not as obvious as it is with Bush, but his press conferences and other appearances were carefully choreographed so he knew exactly what would happen next.

When Bush stole the first election, the powers of the presidency were already more expansive than they had ever been. Cheney and Bush want to turn this in to a dictatorship with the far right wing in charge and the rest of us following like good and docile little sheep. The events of 9/11 gave them so many different ways to manipulate our fears of the unknown and to twist their actions into "defense" of the US born out of necessity.

The thing is, that Watergate started very slowly too. A small revelation here and there and pretty soon all of the corruption and machinations came gushing out and everything was exposed for exactly what it really was. It took forever to get Nixon out of office, but we did. Now we have that precedent to draw on.

Bush and Cheney will posture and twist the truth into lies and do the dance of the desperate for all it's worth, but I don't think this story will die or be forgotten. There are too many people who remember the spying during Viet Nam (which started with Lyndon Johnson), Watergate, the corruption of Iran/Contra under Reagan. With Reagan's personality and advisors who were not barking mad they were able to turn it around and escape the taint somehow.

Bush and Cheney, however, are barking mad and their advisors are no better and they will keep pushing and pushing beyond the point where they shred whatever credibility they have left with the majority of the American people. Congress will not take any real action against them now. They are struggling with their own corruption scandals and misplaced loyalties and power fantasies. But, hopefully, after the midterms things will change and some of them will get turned out like Gingrich did. If that happens, perhaps this mess can be dealt with and this administration can be turned out on their fraudulent butts.

If you have a supreme being, it wouldn't hurt to ask. :headbang:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. "hopefully"
"But, hopefully, after the midterms things will change and some of them will get turned out like Gingrich did. If that happens, perhaps this mess can be dealt with and this administration can be turned out on their fraudulent butts."

Which brings us, once again, to the problem of insecure and hackable machinery. Really people. Americans know what's right, and will do what's right.... If they are able to. If it comes to the point of dumping crooked machines into the nearest body of water...

Who will have the intestinal fortitude?
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tirechewer Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. There may be hope there, too...
I recently read an article that the CEO of Diebold had been forced to resign by the company, which felt that he was hurting its reputation and revenues. Revenue has been declining for the last three quarters, there is evidence of massive fraud and Walden W. O'Dell is out as both CEO and Chairman.

Here are two links with the full story.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Diebold_CEO_resigns_after...

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002153.htm

The Brad Blog has the most detailed story. Here is a small excerpt:

<snip>

"As one of America's largest Voting Machine Companies (along with ES&S, they account for the tabulation of more than 80% of America's votes every election) Diebold has been the target of Election Reform advocates for their strong partisan support of Republican causes and candidates, a statement made prior to last year's Presidential Election to Republican fundraisers by O'Dell that he was committed to "delivering the state of Ohio" to George W. Bush, along with their reluctance to include verifiable paper ballots with their voting products and to make the source-code for their software open and available for public inspection."

<snip>

O'Dell was the individual who promised the election to Bush. Now that the company has been hit with a lawsuit regarding fraud and malfeasance by the shareholders, it is very quick to insist that O'Dell and only O'Dell is responsible. Yeah, I really believe that. Just like I believe that if I put something down it is going to fall up. :banghead: But if they are in the spotlight this much, I doubt that they will be able to do much election fixing during the midterms. :rofl:




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jrflorida Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Americans are not perfect
If Americans knew what was right they wouldn't have allowed the election to be close enough to be stolen in the first place. It cannot all be blamed on hacked electronic voting or butterfly ballots. Americans need to wake up and understand that evil can rise here. This country is not so pure that 'it' cannot happen here. Americans need to stop falling for the propoganda, need to start requiring responsible journalism (stop watching Fox news, stop allowing progressives to appear on it and serve only as targets for spinmeisters), and need to be capable of believing again that this government is not necessarily good and pure. We need to stop looking the other way when we talk about corrupt politicians. It seems now that its just the way of things. It shouldn't be. We should demand our representatives do more than line their pockets and breathe power like it were some drug. Take away the limitless powers and get some term limits in place across the board. As I see it Americans so far have proven to be sheep. They respond perfectly to the repeated cries of "Wolf!". I'm not all together certain our collective eyes and ears are open just yet. I hope so, but I certainly don't want anyone to think that Americans will always do the right thing as if somehow this entity of millions is pure of heart.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Hi jrflorida!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. This is why
I believe Bush, etc., made 9/11 happen on purpose. Call me a conspiracy theorist. I prefer Coincidence theorist.
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tirechewer Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. At first I didn't even want to think that...
But after I heard about the detailed intelligence briefings he had received and the fact that Intel had been warning for a long time of an attack by terrorists with planes flying into buildings, I got a bad feeling.

I find myself wondering now, with all that has transpired since, if Bush didn't know that there was going to be an attack and decided to do nothing to stop it. Certainly he has demonstrated over and over again that he has no regard for human life, he needed a huge political incident to hang the war in Iraq on, and he had wanted to invade Iraq since before 9/11. It was also a good way to keep people afraid and in a state of mind where they would be looking more toward security than the erosion of their individual rights.

I don't think he actually did anything to cause the attacks, but I do think he had a lot to gain from not preventing them. There was no warning to the airlines to be on the alert for hijackers, even though the Intel for some time had specifically mentioned that. There was no fast response by the US fighter planes which are supposed to protect our air space in case of attack, and it was immediately obvious that this was an attack. Also, compare the damage to the Pentagon to the destruction which took place in New York. It is kind of telling.
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Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. Dude, I think you nailed it.
I've been thinking the same thing. The crooks still run the republican party and they see bush and the "war on terra" as their way to get revenge.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. So what's wrong with reliving the days of Watergate?
Minus Woody, of course! :rofl:
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Because their fixation on this period motivates them to "undo" it
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 12:21 PM by kenny blankenship
And since the motivation is not rational, they will persist beyond all reason.

Like the poster said they never stopped fighting the Vietnam war in their heads, they never accepted our defeat there--and likewise, they've also never accepted the reality or justice of Nixon's disgrace and departure under threat of impeachment. Nixon's resignation is the culminating event of the historical period of trauma, (loosely known as "the sixties" ca. 1963-1973) which in their minds, replays itself over and over like a tapeloop. They are trying to reverse a whole series of historical developments leading up to that culminating trauma--mostly succeeding at it too--and now we've reached the unthinkable point where they unearth and resurrect Nixon's Police-State Presidency. It's nothing "highminded" or "philosophical" as a poster above objected, but that doesn't mean they're not going to try. The motive is not philosophy but neurosis. And that is why we must expect them to persist to the bitter end now that they've embarked on this project, no matter what they're told about its illegality or unpopularity.

"We" may have won Watergate the first time around, but the country is different now and the Republicans are today a party possessed by the need to ignore the future, deny the present, and to reverse time to erase all the awful things liberals have done to them. That's what's wrong with reliving the days of Watergate--back then there were Republicans who could see the danger of what Nixon was doing and prevailed on him to step down for the good of the country and their party. This time that will not happen. And it's worth remembering what almost happened back then: according to Adm. Zumwalt Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Nixon floated the idea of a military lockdown of D.C., officially suspending the sessions of Congress by Executive Order, which was holding the Watergate committee hearings at the time, and solving the "Constitutional crisis" by simply the Constitution aside.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Neurosis: Second time's the charm
Edited on Fri Dec-23-05 01:12 PM by kenny blankenship
It's also well to remember that for the Nazis, the second time was the charm too. When the Nazis seized power from the Weimar Republic, it was not the first time they had tried it. Right after they began calling themselves "Nazis" instead of "Freikorps", Hitler, Goering and others in the Nazi movement had tried to seize power in Bavaria, to break Bavaria away from the German Republic at least, or perhaps spread Fascist revolution across the entire nation. A great deal of the emotional significance of their subsequent takeover, a decade later, and the words accompanying it as justification, had to do overcoming and undoing the humiliation of their previous failures, erasing the defeated Putsch attempt that landed Hitler in prison in 1923, and blotting out the shameful memory of defeat by the Allied powers and the occupation of German lands and demilitarization (emasculation) of the German state. When Hitler demanded the Sudetenland in 1938, it was to Munich he made Chamberlain and Daladier travel to meet him, the precise scene of Hitler's previous failure and humiliation.

For Bushlerite Republicans, winning in Iraq will mean Vietnam didn't happen (the conventional meaning of VN--shame and failure--will be scooped out and waiting to be refilled with signification more in line with the Rambo-* Missing In Action-* series of fantasy movies.)
Re-establishing the COINTELPRO police-state Presidency of Nixon will mean the shame of Watergate is undone, and never happened.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. Right, they'll lose again like they did before.
In my opinion, this time is no different. They want you to think it is, but it's not.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
27. True that. Listen to Dick moaning the glory days of Nixon:

Speaking with reporters traveling with him aboard Air Force Two to Oman, Cheney said the period after the Watergate scandal and Vietnam War proved to be "the nadir of the modern presidency in terms of authority and legitimacy" and harmed the chief executive's ability to lead in a complicated, dangerous era. "But I do think that to some extent now we've been able to restore the legitimate authority of the presidency."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. I want my country back,
dammit!!
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
30. Of course they do, they completely control Congress now.
Republicans want to go back, and re-fight every argument or issue that they previously lost. It's their payback to get even, and take back what they lost. Republicans have the power now, they will change the rules to avoid losing it again, and Republicans think they can re-write history for their glorious party. Republicans are drunk with power, and ready to drive the country over a cliff.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. No, Monicagate was their unethical vengeance for Nixon
To my mind, Monicagate was as corrupt a Republican operation as Watergate was.

Except now they have the 'mainstream' media on their side.
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