Stop Judicial Tyranny — Campaign by Dobson to establish theocracy in U.S.

[prolesunited]

This is some truly scary stuff here. :scared: Someone added me to the Focus on the Family mailing list. Most of the time I just toss the stuff but once in awhile I'll read it to see what they are up to. The latest is truly frightening.

Let me preface this by saying this really is not an attack on Christians, nor do I want this thread to become one. The issue at hand is the efforts by the religious right to seize control of our government and establish a theocracy, imposing their standards and beliefs on all of us.

The impetus, of course, it Roy Moore and the Ten Commandments monument in the judicial building. The intro to the newsletter was written by Don Hodel (not familiar with him). They called the Aug. 28 rally "the opening salvos in a new movement aimed a restoring our foundation as a nation."

I won't bore you with the hackneyed arguments they included about how we were founded as a Christian nation. But here is their main contention:

"Undeterred by that fact, an unelected, unaccountable federal judiciary appears to be doing everything in its power to weaken the foundation upon which our country was built. Repeatedly, the Supreme Court has exercised judicial tyranny by declaring perfectly legitimate laws enacted by the citizens of states by direct votes 'unconstitutional.' "

Is it just me is your head totally spinning from that statement? Exactly what do they think the Supreme Court's role IS in our system of government? I'm sure they didn't mind the "judicial tyranny" when the court ruled Bush would ascend to the presidency.

The full text of the speech Dobson made that day is here:
http://family.org/fmedia/misc/a0027564.cfm

He compares the Christian "struggle" to the civil rights movement:
"Therefore, we honor her and invoke her name here today, because in a very real sense we’re in a great moral struggle of our own. We as people of faith are also being sent to the back of the bus. And we’re not going to go there."

Of course Kennedy and Ginsburg were prime targets:
Most recently, the Justices have ruled that homosexuals have the constitutional right to practice sodomy. Writing for the majority was Justice Anthony Kennedy, whom I consider to be one of the most dangerous men in this country. Somebody ought to tell him he could be impeached.

It would help if he just knew that. And the worst part about that decision is that in his rationale for the sodomy decision, he said we had to look at “customary law.” Never mind the fact that our Constitution states that we are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights. Now our rights are going to be influenced by European and Canadian law. I just returned from Europe, and I’m telling you, that is a very pagan place. Is that where we’re headed — that our rights are not dependent upon God, but will be drawn from other countries that have not shared our historic beliefs and underpinnings?

Here's the Web site
http://www.family.org/cforum/judicial_tyranny/

Don't miss these five bills pending before Congresss:
http://www.family.org/cforum/judicial_tyranny/take_action.cfm?pt=tc


Some of the questions I have are:
How dangerous are these people?
How much power and influence do you think they have?
How are they able to be classified as a religious organization and get so involved in the political arena?

[roguevalley]

1. Well, here's my take on this:

Some of the questions I have are:
A. How dangerous are these people?

The ones that are sort of funneled into activities aren't
the ones to fear. Its the loners like that abortion killer.
Of course, they can do a lot of harm because they raise
money by exploiting people's fear.

B How much power and influence do you think they have?

Not as much as you think, I believe. They turn out for
first votes but seldom come back in the same numbers. They
make a lot of noise but they shouldn't be pandered to so
much. Bush does. That is why his numbers are falling, this
doing things to placate these people.

C. How are they able to be classified as a religious organization and get so involved in the political arena?

Because no one challenges their non tax status. It should be
taken away but no one has the balls to do it. Sort of like
Ireland. There was a priest there that had the Shrine at Knock.
He built an international airport out in the middle of nowhere
for planes to land hauling in pilgrims. It has as much traffic
as my little rinky dinky airport here in the Alaskan boonies.
Yet, when they questioned government officials- appointed and
elected- they all shamed facedly agreed that his status as a
priest made it hard to say no. :)

Its the nature of the beast. I think the religious right as a
powerful political entity had its hay day in the eighties.

He who passively

[prolesunited]

2. Thank you for your thoughtful response

I wish I shared your "faith" that the religious right has since faded. I talk to too many people who share these sentiments.

[Democat]

6. Those on the left aren't willing to fight hard enough

What you said about the tax status - this is a long term problem with our side.

If anyone on the left tries anything, the right will sue them, file complaints, go to the media, and do everything they can to tear them down.

When someone on the right does something illegal or unethical, our side is afraid of offending them.

How long would these groups remain tax exempt if they were on the left? Not a month.

Where are the groups on our side willing to fight hard and mean and win?

[Wapsie B]

3. The thing is

Dobson has just enough of a cloak of legitimacy that he can fool others into supporting his PAC, which FOF is. When people think of those crazy fundies, they immediately look to Pat & Jerry, not Jimmy.
He can then go into protestant churches peddling his literature and asking for donations. Donations such like my Lutheran church council gave without any discussion or hesitation.

I have to tell you I get sexually aroused at the thought of stripping this asshole's tax-exempt status.

[prolesunited]

7. I work with a Christian fundamentalist

and I have been able to convince her that there is nothing "Christian" about most of these leaders. However, I have a much tougher time with Dobson because, as you noted, he is not crazy-sounding.

She is one of those people who is firmly convinced that we are a Christian nation, in spite of all the information to the contrary that I've given her. She also sees the injection of God into the government as a good thing. "What could it hurt?" she says and I point to the Taliban. Of course, nothing like that can happen here.

[playahata1]

14. Can you send me some links

to material that debunks the notion that this is a "Christian" nation. I have a few fundie students who need to read this stuff.

[prolesunited]

15. Here's some excellent sites

where they can explore the concept of separation of church and state as well as religious tolerance in greater detail:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://www.au.org/

People for the American Way
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/

American Civil Liberties Union
http://archive.aclu.org/issues/religion/hmrf.html

The Interfaith Alliance
http://www.tialliance.org/

Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:

Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

Jefferson again:
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Also Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible). Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible. Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote: Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

Let me know if this helps or if you need more.

[playahata1]

17. Thanks a bunch.

n/t

[prolesunited]

18. You're welcome!

One other thing that I remembered: Encourage them to read Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, which paints a very frightening picture of a Christian "utopia." What is particularly compelling is how she takes visible trends in today's society and carries them to disastrous conclusions.

[JHB]

13. The best one-line summary I've heard...

...is that he took his mailing list of people who asked for advice on handling their unruly teens and used it for political advocacy.

[chrisesq]

4. I know this is nitpicky, but the Constitution does not say

"that we are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights" That is the Declaration of Independence, which does not hold the force of law by any stretch of the imagination. I don't know how many times I've had to correct fundamentalists about this false attribution.

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Keep sayin' it; it's true: the DOI is nothing but a position paper

After eleven years of wrangling and gestation, they came up with the laws of the land, wherein there is no mention of a supreme being or even the concept. "Religion" is only referred to in the abstract, and only to point out that it shouldn't be established (endorsed) or used as a means test for holding public office. (They didn't even want to mention it much, except to point out that it shouldn't be a part of government.)

Welcome to the board, by the way...

[Midwest_Doc]

8. Best Example

You are correct. The strategy to establish a theocracy in the United States is most clearly defined by David Limbaugh in his new book. We will increasingly hear the mantra of "Christian persecution". This is a well-orchestrated PR campaign. We must continue to remind the public that those having control of power cannot be persecuted!

[WoodrowFan]

9. Book Recommendation.

FYI: There is a good chapter on Dobson and the FOF in "Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" by Bruce Bawer

[LizW]

10. And another

The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America", edited by Kimberly Blaker.

The book discusses Dobson at length, including how he intentionally shields his organization from scrutiny of its tax-exempt status by using other groups to keep it one step removed from direct political action, even though the shield groups report directly to Dobson, and are run by him.

Dobson is dangerous, and should not be underestimated.

[JHB]

11. Another book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157392122X/qid%3D1066742732/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-5956416-1624619

James Dobson's War on America
by Gil Alexander-Moegerle

Alexander-Moegerle was Dobson's original co-host. The book was written before Dobson's stroke, when it looked like he was angling to go for the GOP nomination himself (an angling the stroke derailed).

Dobson supporters dismiss Alexander-Moegerle as a disgruntled former employee, but everything he writes rings true of "powerful men with a smiley-face front", whereas the protestations either take Dobson's word as scripture or have the hollow ring of those not wanting to see the hypocracy of a treasured icon. These days Moegerle is a conventional Christian advocate, holding seminars on things like communicating with God and people, reducing common prayer frustrations, and assorted religiously-oriented networking. His site doesn't even mention Dobson, and is entirely devoid of politics.


Other sites to check on theis:
http://www.peacemakers.net/peace/gam.htm (scroll down to the interview)
http://www.bibble.org/gay/religious/fof_founder_apologizes.html
http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/RRR/fof.html

[prolesunited]

12. Thank you all for the book recommendations

I'll see if I can pick them up at the library. I didn't realize so much had been written about him. I learn sooo much around here.

[TrogL]

16. how dangerous?

How much power and influence do you think they have?

A tremendous amount. Between the media coverage (including guest spots on Larry King Live) and politicking from the pulput, the Reconstructionists have been working since the time of Reagan and before to put "God back in government". The goal is in sight. Nothing will stop them now short of civil war.

How are they able to be classified as a religious organization and get so involved in the political arena

Who's going to enforce the law? They control everything.