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FISA - bu$h is Totally Impeachable - Happy Reading

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:16 PM
Original message
FISA - bu$h is Totally Impeachable - Happy Reading
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 09:18 PM by Triana
Pertinent section:

Executive Order 12333 - Restrictions Imposed on All Intelligence Collection Activities

There are certain restrictions imposed by E.O. 12333 upon all intelligence collection activities engaged in by the Executive Branch agencies. Intelligence collection must be conducted in a manner "consistent with the Constitution and applicable law and respectful of the principles upon which the United States was founded." (Sec. 2.1). These include the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures. Intelligence collection must not be undertaken to acquire information concerning the domestic activities of U.S. persons. (Sec. 2.3(b)). The least intrusive collection techniques feasible must be used in the United States or against U.S. persons located abroad. (Sec. 2.4). Finally, agencies in the Intelligence Community are prohibited from having other parties engage in activities forbidden by the Executive Order on their behalf. (Sec. 2.12) This means that NSA can not ask another country to illegally spy on U.S. persons on our behalf, and we do not.


http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa /

Edited to add 2nd link

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2000_hr/hayden.html <---this is where the above paragraph appears.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's nice, but what ** did was beyond FISA
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Of course...this is just part of it (n/t)
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cut and dry....IMPEACH! What are we waiting for???
Can't Congress have him arrested?
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Repube congress will do nothing to W
no matter WHAT he does or how often he breaks the law or violates the Constitution he was sworn to uphold - which he did - and blatantly so.

They just won't. It'd be up to Dems, maybe some Moderate Repubs and - us and even then, until/unless there's a Dem majority in one of the houses, probably nothing'll happen even then.

But - it's good to spread the word far and wide.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Can I do a citizen's arrest?
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Congress is controlled by Republicans
so, of course, they will not impeach him. What we need to do is do an end run around the Republican zombies in Congress and take this up in the courts.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You'd think this would be a no-brainer in the courts...
...but...bu$hit has 'friends in high places' - all the way up to the usurping crap court that appointed the Little Dicktater to start with.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. If they don't impeach
then they set precedent
and grant all the same unchecked
powers to the soon-to-be
Democrat President.

Either way.. good for us.

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Maybe. But we don't have legit elections anymore so that day..
...may be a long time coming. And, meanwhile what more damage they'll wreak...I hate to even think about it.
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You are right on the money!
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Lets stay loud and positive
we can't give up......It's not an option.....

live free or die.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. LIVE FREE OR DIE! NOT ANY OTHER OPTION! NEVER SURRENDER!
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The Republicans are rigging the elections
There ain't going to be any Democratic or non-Repuiblican president in our lifetimes!
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Diebold's under the microscope now
They may not be able to manipulate the machines next time 'round. Don't give up all hope just yet.
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. You would think that all the suspicious deaths would have raised
some flags about what was really going on. I don't think the US press has the will or the means to expose the truth and to rattle the cage of the assholes in power.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. That is true
if we give up.

Their fraud cannot hold together forever..
in fact, I believe it's beginning to crumble.

Don't give up.

please !!
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. That's why we need Democratic governors
Try as they might, they couldn't rig the election in Virginia because the governor is a Democrat (Warner, not John but Mark)and the Democrat, Kaine, won. We need to focus on the state races if we are to have a chance. Most Americans are just dumb puppets of the spin industry or so shamelessly self-absorbed that they look out narrowly for their perceived own self interest.
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Justsayin Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I would rather not have either party unchecked.
I would just like them to follow the letter of the law like the rest of us have to.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. Hi Justsayin!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. NO. A corrupt democrat stepping on civil liberties is no better.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. K & R With pleasure!
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Found this on Nixon's articles of impeachment.
The second article of impeachment against Richard M Nixon pertained exclusively to wiretapping fourteen people without warrants.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. YEP...someone posted earlier in another thread that Saddam..
...that evil dictator - spied on his own people too.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. maybe why bu$hit didn't want to go through FISA:
Statutory Restriction on Electronic Surveillance in the U.S. -- Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA)

"Under FISA, NSA may only target communications of a U.S. person in the United States if a federal judge finds probable cause to believe that the U.S. person is an agent of a foreign power. Probable cause exists when facts and circumstances within the applicant's knowledge and of which he/she has reasonably trustworthy information are sufficient to warrant a person of reasonable caution to believe that the proposed target of the surveillance is an agent of a foreign power. Under the statute, a judge may determine a U.S. person to be an agent of a foreign power only if there is information to support a finding that the individual is a spy, terrorist, saboteur, or someone who aids or abets them."

IF bu$hit wanted to just spy on whoever he damn well pleased for political/personal reasons, then going through the normal channels -- through FISA and the requirements herein with appropriate legal oversight, then that wouldn't have accomplished his personal goal. I'm just speculating that this is why he probably avoided it and just did it 'secretly' without any legal permission or oversight, blatantly violating the 4th Amendment of the very Constitution that he, as President, was sworn to uphold. His motives are therefore certainly suspect - that they weren't simply "national security". Just guessing on this one.

(this paragraph continued...)

"All FISA collection is regulated by special minimization procedures approved by the FISA Court and the Attorney General. Since the enactment of the FISA in 1978, there have been no more than a very few instances of NSA seeking FISA authorization to target a U.S. person in the United States. In those instances there was probable cause to believe that the individuals were involved in terrorism."
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Can congress or the judiciary demand..
the list of people who have been wiretapped ????
If not, why not?
And if so.... what the heck are they waiting for ?????

we need to know who is on Bush's enemies list !!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. But they're all Repubes...
..will they b*tchslap bu$hit like that? I'm willing to be they won't, though I was heartened to see that Arlen Specter was quite incensed with this new revelation about bu$hit's big ears and wants it investigated. Dunno...

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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. and they never
took their case to the FISC, which they are required by law to do:

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 prescribes procedures for requesting judicial authorization for electronic surveillance and physical search of persons engaged in espionage or international terrorism against the United States on behalf of a foreign power.

Requests are adjudicated by a special eleven member court called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

Complete disregard of the law by the Bu$hies and Bu$hie admitted it!
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. So.... who enforces the law ??
Who is responsible for prosecuting those who violate the laws of FISC ??
Some on here suggest that the Repub congress will never impeach.
But if they don't... don't they themselves commit some crime or
abuse of power ??? And don't they set dangerous precedent that
basically abdicates all their oversight power over the executive branch?
Doesn't the whole system of checks and balances go right out the window ??

My main question is .. can the republican congress afford NOT to impeach Bush ???
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. And, so is Cheney, and every administration official, including those ...
... who may have moved on to other positions .... And, then the victims have recourse via FISA (and, likely other statutes) to seek remedy in civil court.

Wise Senator Rockefeller for writing that letter to Cheney and stashing a copy .... very, very wise man ....


Peace.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's going to be worse now
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 10:24 PM by Justice Is Comin
that the story is just breaking that Bush begged the NYT not to run the story. This hasn't even been coupled with the citizen spying story yet. So just wait until these two little separate gold nuggets are merged together.

Also, it doesn't matter that the jack booted camouflage crew of congress won't start articles of impeachment. The mere act of our team preparing a resolution starts the debate. Just like Conyers did in the Judiciary committee to investigate the Downing Street expose. Not one republican attended the committee.

But a detailed resolution with strictly democratic signatories calling for impeachment forces the republicans to defend against it. And when they do, it commits them more deeply into their own shit. Plus as the other investigations, more numerous than you can count, start producing new impeachable facts of their own, the idea of impeachment won't have as far to go to gather even moderate republican support.

I illustrate my point; did you ever dream you would be legitimately hearing our senators and congressmen ie Boxer and Lewis already using the word one year after he was just elected? Not in a million years.

So in summary, this has more legs than a centipede. We just have to point it in the right direction.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
29. he didn't seek approval because he wanted to spy on political opponents
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Exactly...
...that's why he didn't use proper legal channels. That would have required legal oversight of who he was spying on and why - and he apparently didn't want that.

Pretty damning.
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