It's still called "empire"....no matter which party says it.

[madfloridian]

When they speak about making democracies in the middle east, since Iraq may be doing fine now.....it does not matter which party says it. It is still called empire.

And it is still wrong, and we have no right to spread democracy in the middle east.

Idea of the Week: Middle Eastern Democracy

We may not know for weeks exactly what kind of government yesterday's Iraqi elections produced, but the fact that they were successfully held, with relatively little violence, and with an extraordinary turnout among Arab Sunnis as well as Kurds and Shi'a, is unmistakably good news.

Moreover, these elections were in themselves an historic breakthrough for the Arab Middle East. Iraq has just become the world's first genuine Arab democracy -- perhaps not a full-fledged American-style democracy, but a democracy nonetheless in the basic sense of a nation governed by a popularly elected government representing every element of its society. If this government, and the process which created it, endure, it could become the catalyst for the political, economic and social transformation of the Greater Middle East that provides the best way, and perhaps the only way, to diminish the appeal of jihadist terrorism.

But even in the short term, these elections could make the road ahead in Iraq much clearer and straighter. The United States can now end its major military involvement in Iraq the right way, through negotiations with an Iraqi government whose legitimacy can no longer be questioned, instead of through arguments between politicians in Washington. That is why the elections clearly represented an important, if hardly a final, benchmark toward what all Americans want: an expedited withdrawal from Iraq on terms that do not produce a calamity for Iraqis or a national security setback for ourselves.

To be sure, this is only the first step along that path.

The article points out that democracy is our strongest weapon in the war of ideas against Islamist extremism. I disagree with that. These nations do not want us to "democratize" them anymore. Just don't force our cultures and our so-called democratic ways on them. This ending paragraph or two makes me nervous....like some Democrats are far too wiling to spread Democracy where it is not wanted.

By this we don't mean democracy as a magic elixir, as Bush administration officials sometimes seem to describe it, but democracy as a process whereby people wounded and fearful after decades of tyranny learn to negotiate, compromise, build up institutions of civil society, and forge a national identity based on mutual respect and free consent rather than brutal coercion.

And if that can happen in Iraq, it can happen throughout the Middle East -- in Palestine, in Egypt, and even in Saudi Arabia.

In the end, that's the just and worthy cause we are fighting for in Iraq -- the cause our troops have suffered and died for -- and we urge Democrats in particular to look beyond our justifiable anger at the administration's many blunders and its stubborn refusal to admit them, and embrace that cause as our own.

I thought we were fighting in Iraq because of an immediate danger there. I don't like our Democrats helping Bush on his evolving reasons for all the deaths and dying.

[neweurope]

1. Democracy is NOT, repeat NOT, a weapon against Islamist extremism.

If countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Marokko were real democracies, they'd ALL have a Fundmentalist Muslim majority.

But then the Iraq war is not and was never about democracy, as we know.

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[madfloridian]

2. Right, and they changed the reason for the war to "spreading democracy."

That is what makes me so angry. They just spun the reason we are there to be a glorious mission...and that is the Democrats saying it.

It made me feel hopeless to read this.

[neweurope]

4. Yes - I feel hopeless, too. I'm German and we have a new

Minister of the Interior who says that it would be crazy not to use information gained under torture - as long as we don't torture ourselves. Sitting on Bush's lap.

We certainly live in interesting times.
Cry:

-------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[madfloridian]

3. Al From further says not to fall for trap of advocating withdrawal...

They do not want us out of Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/17/AR2005121700817.html

"Rising public frustration with the Iraq war and low approval ratings for President Bush look to many Democrats like an opportunity for big
gains with voters in the 2006 and 2008 elections.

But two of the party's top strategists say this opportunity may be something else: a trap.

Al From, president of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, and pollster Mark Penn wrote a strategy memo to DLC supporters last week warning party leaders not to use Bush's problems as an invitation to call for an immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, or generally to steer a more liberal course that could alienate the middle-of-the-road voters the party needs.

"It is important for Democrats to understand that despite Bush's decline, America remains a moderate to conservative country -- particularly on economic and security measures," the two wrote. While a poll taken by Penn for the DLC showed voters opposing the Iraq war 54 to 44 percent, they warned that "Democratic leaders could be playing with political dynamite if they call for an immediate pullout of American troops."

The memo is the latest illustration of deep divisions among Democrats over the right stance on Iraq -- on policy and political grounds. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who supports a rapid withdrawal starting now, has estimated that half the Democratic caucus agrees with her."