Quickest way to shut up a freeper when it comes to Saddam's brutality

[noahmijo]

So a conversation with a freeper and the justification for war typically goes like this for me

Freeper: "We had to go kick Saddam's ass though!!"

Me: "Why?"

Freeper: "Cause he was a brutal dictator he tortured his own people!! my God how can you not understand why this war was necessary for the free people of Iraq!!?"

Me: "How old are you?"

Freeper: (Usually answers somewhere in the realm of age 25+"

Me: "Okay so you were old enough to read and understand a newspaper or a news report on tv during the early 80's.

Now then when we backed Saddam in his war against Theocratic Iran and mind you he was employing the same brutal tactics against the citizens of Iraq were you then jumping up and down and screaming that we must put an end to Saddam's insanity by invading Iraq?"


Freeper: "uhh"

Me: "When Bush I promised the Shiites our government would back them if they attempted a violent overthrow of Iraq and the US never did and as a result thousands of Iraqis were massacred did you run out and join the military or write your congressman that we must invade and overthrow Iraq immediately then?"

Freeper: (pause)

Me: "When Bush I imposed sanctions on Iraq which lead to the starving of countless Iraqis and inadequate medical supplies to the citizens of Iraq did you at that time petition the government to cease the sanctions?"


Freeper: "well I didn't-

Me: "No you NEVER gave two shits about anything or anyone Iraqi up until all of a sudden your president loaded you with a couple of 5 minute sound bites and you got out your poms poms and your fuckin foam #1 hand that you wave at football games and now all of a sudden you're an armchair humanitarian. The enlistment age is 39. The government needs more bodies for their continued quest for victory for the theocratic nation of Iran and Muslim terrorists everywhere. I suggest you quit fuckin stalling and get to the nearest recruiting station. They need more simple minded flat earthers like you RIGHT NOW."



One of these days I'm gonna write up a quick one sentence type comeback card for everyone.

In fact I'll start with the first entries right now:

Christmas was a pagan holiday originally just like Halloween. You can't protest against one and then for one when it has such similar origins moron.

Sudan never offered bin Laden to Bill Clinton. Mansoor Ijaz an American businessman originally from Sudan tried to talk Clinton into brokering a deal to get bin Laden before bin Laden had even committed a crime against American interests.

Saddam hates Muslim Extremists more than you do.

bin Laden hates Saddam more than you do.

You're not pro-life you're anti-choice and pro-death if you support war and the death penalty-in other words your issue is control not life.

Sunnis and Shiites have been enemies since the time when Shiites originally were called Zorathians and were invaded by Arabs back around the time of Cygnus-American cowboys with bombs will not all of a sudden bring them together-unless it's to kill Americans who have invaded the soil they are warring over.

If you're such a bastion of personal responsibility why is that every bigoted position or action you take you base on a mythological and vengeful god?

If Jesus truly existed your kind would the first to put him right back up on the cross-only you'd say it was necessary to fight the communists.


And lastly when I feel a debate about Afghanistan and the whole war on terror coming on I simply say "Do you know who Ahmed Shah Massoud was?"

if they can't answer me I just say "Then this conversation's over I won't argue with someone whose knowledge of the history of Afghanistan is based on "They're brown and we're not"

~N~

(On edit I know lots of people against the war in Iraq and so forth may not know who Massoud was. The difference is though these types do not fall into the realm of the charging let's go and shed some blood against the brownies and the a-rabs cause they're all the same types which is why I completely snub nose them if they can't even tell me who this man was and what he did.)

[beam me up scottie]

1. "armchair humanitarian" !

:rofl:

Brilliant!

Recommended!

[Maven]

19. agreed!

That one pithy phrase says it all. :thumbsup:

K/R.

[beam me up scottie]

21. I work with freepers.

I'm committing those one-liners to memory.

They are perfect.

Anything more just confuses them.

[noahmijo]

23. Well I'm flattered I always wanted to be like Henny Youngman

and Rodney Dangerfield when I was little and at 24 I can proudly say that for at least one night I reigned as the one liner king at DU

:)

[Straight Shooter]

24. You are only 24?

I am impressed. Very impressed, indeed.

:thumbsup:

[noahmijo]

27. Yep I guess I owe my view of the world on not being sheltered

literally from anything, and a desire to really learn about the way things work I guess. It was the first WTC bombing in '93 that got me really paying attention to what the middle east was all about and quite frankly just like with any series of events or issues just follow the money trail or the trail of desires and ultimately you get your answers one way or another.

Peace bro :toast:

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Oh yes

It's important to understand. I've seen lots of docs and a lot of researching myself since last year after I saw Moore's F911 film. Learning about the middle east has helped a lot with understanding everything. I wish Bush would learn about the mid east.

[beam me up scottie]

28. Seriously, if you want to market those cards,

I'd buy 'em.

It's difficult to remember simple answers like yours when you are trying not to go postal on the ignorant mouth breathing Bubba who is standing in front of you using up good oxygen.

You could save a life.

[madeline_con]

54. Me, too...

but I'm considering just keeping my mouth shut in the interest of remaining employed.

Most are too stupid to discuss any of this with. They feel they're being "persecuted" or I'm "un-American". :eyes:

[NMDemDist2]

2. gave it a nom and a kick

good one liners there!

[cantstandbush]

3. Great post. Thanks! n/t

[rman]

4. excellent

[Gregorian]

5. Fantastic!

But you lost me at the religious stuff. Drop that. It's offensive to those of us who believe, for lack of a better word.

Perfect answers.

[noahmijo]

8. Well you know what take it however you want

I appreciate the compliments on everything else, but I specified that I was and am referring to those who use religion to justify believing that certain people should be second class citizens or worse that blood should be shed to make their god happy.

If you use your belief in god to feed the homeless or something fine great no problems there, but I will never nor am I required to respect anyone who attempts to use a religious deity to justify acts of greed and or violence and that goes for ALL faiths.

[frogmarch]

6. Recommended

and :kick:

Excellent, noahmijo!

[Al-CIAda]

7. This list is pretty good. nice. -nt

[dogman]

9. Is it possible Saddam was reacting to faulty intelligence?

After being attacked by Iran he might have been using preemptive strikes against Iranian sympathizers. Who knows what his internal surveillance told him about the people he attacked? Maybe Ramsey Clark will defend W if justice comes for him.

[noahmijo]

11. Why do you hate America? you must be a red diaper doper baby

C'mon just admit it, you're completely against wiping out Saddam who personally paid off Atta to mastermind the 9/11 attacks.

In all seriousness I hate to say it but it's not even like those that we were encouraging to rise up Saddam were all good noble people who just wanted democracy. The biggest enemies of Saddam in Iraq were those who longed to see Iraq become like Iran and its ruling Shiite majority (although in fairness I think it's the officials of Iran who are the evil ones not so much the 20 somethings who have embraced coca-cola and rebel against the mullahs in protests)

[dogman]

14. That would explain why they are Bush's allies.

They are not all good noble people. I just wonder waht a World Court trial of Saddam would expose. It might be interesting to find out who gassed the Kurds and where they got the gas. Who has killed more Iraqi civilians? Saddam or W? What is a Saddamist? Is it different from a Bushist? The real question that may arise, when Iraq is a "democracy" established by Bush, is why didn't we just let Iran defeat him years ago?

[Auntie Bush]

10. Dare I ask?

Please refresah my memory.

"Do you know who Ahmed Shah Massoud was?"

[noahmijo]

12. Oh yeah um you can check the note at the bottom

My snubbing of those who have never heard of him goes to the armchair warriors of the right who believe they know all they need to know as to why we're turning Afghanistan "into a parking lot"

I delightfully inform people like you as to who Massoud was.

Well an entire book could be (and should be) written about him but basically he was a secular Muslim who was at first a major ally of the US during our campaign to aid the afghanis in their fight against the Soviets.

Later on Massoud founded The Northern Alliance when the Taliban came to power and for over a decade led his armies against the Taliban and as such as the only force that dared to defy Mullah Omar the Taliban's founder.

Massoud has constantly been petitioning to Washington during the Clinton years at first to aid him, however Clinton bowed to Republican pressure the moment the talking heads on the radio started saying stuff like Clinton is dealing with a warlord who deals opium!! which was true he was a warlord and an opium dealer, however put things into context.

In 2000 Massoud had a sent a personally written letter to Dick Cheney asking him to talk the administration into helping him overthrow the ruling Taliban as he was harboring a dangerous enemy of America (bin Laden)

Of course we can guess how much attention or Dick paid attention to that.


In the end Massoud was assasinated by an infiltrator who posed as a photographer on....September 10, 2001.

It was only until after 9/11 that America got a glimpse as to who the Northern Alliance was and why then and today the NA's position was if they found bin Laden they would execute him themselves being that they don't and never will believe that the American government has much of an interest in disposing of him.

Chilling isn't it?


A book that every American should read if they want to understand the historical aspect of the hows and whys of the roots of terror in Afghanistan should check out "Ghost Wars"

[The Doctor.]

15. Great synopsis...

I was gearing to go research him (still will), but then read your breakdown.
It's almost as if the Administration didn't care...

[noahmijo]

17. Well thank you but I confess I barely scratched the surface

Seriously the full history of this guy could make for an amazing non-fiction movie. I hate to think of it like that but it really is an amazing and eye-opening history of what happened in Afghanistan involving the Taliban's origins post Soviet-war and Massoud's forming of the Northern Alliance, the battles that took place, how some of those involved on both sides later on became prominment figures (hell the guy who the US installed as president of Afghanistan was once captured by Massoud's forces and was held as an enemy combatant of then nemisis of Massoud's Hekmamtayer (sp) but escaped to France I believe eventually after an RPG took out a wall in the room he was being held in.


It's just really incredible when you take in the full history of that nation from the 80's to now and combine it with the overall roots of the rise of Islamic terrorists and how unfortunately the US government's actions only serve to fuel it, and clearly we haven't learned a single lesson from the history of it yet.

[julianer]

39. I think you would enjoy

Tariq Ali's 'Clash of Fundamentalisms'

http://www.versobooks.com/books/ab/a-titles/ali_t_fundamentalisms.shtml

It's particularly good on the evolution of Islam and the role of Pakistani secret service in the creation of the Taliban.

Tariq Ali is one of my all time heroes. I first noticed him when I was a little boy and he was a young student leader in the Vietnam protests. Last week he spoke at the International Peace Conference in the UK. He's an incredibly interesting character in his own right with extensive connections to the political elites in parts of the muslim world.

And he was a mate of John Lennon for a while, too.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Of course they don't care

Watch the film "The Power of Nightmares" and that will show you why they don't care. And Moore's F911 touches on this too.

[bullwinkle428]

16. I do recall the news report about the NA leader killed the day

before 9/11...however, I didn't remember his name, nor any of the previous information about him, before reading your post. I appreciate the excellent info, and am happy to add to that to my salvo in debating Neocons in the future! :toast:

[linazelle]

51. "...assasinated ....September 10, 2001!???!!! Yikes.

That is scary.

[noahmijo]

55. Well technically the 9th is when the attack happened but

he was pronounced dead on the 10th.


Still though.....the one man regardless of whatever positive or negative view you want to bestow on the guy he was always enemy #1 to the Taliban to the Muslim extremists vying for power in Afghanistan.

[dw]

56. As I recall there was speculation that

bin Laden had orchestrated Massoud's assassination so that the Taliban would give him and his people cover in Afghanistan once the dogs of war were unleashed after September 11.

[The Doctor.]

13. Sounds like me when I wash dishes...

No seriously... I have these 'monotribes' as I scrub dishes and put them in the machine.

You've given me more cleansing ammo and I thank you.

[niallmac]

18. Some good facts to add to my armamentarium including

a reminder about Panjshir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Shah_Massoud
OBL did not want Massoud around on 9/11 that seems a given.

[applegrove]

20. Why not the International Criminal Courts?

[manic expression]

22. But there's more!

What two things do these governments all have in common?

Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, Israel (what am I forgetting?).

1.) They all are oppressive governments

2.) They are all supported by the US

[Spiffarino]

30. Oh, and don't forget the oppressed Christians

No, not here in the U.S., although they'd like for you to believe that the 80% religious majority is horribly oppressed.

No, the ones I'm referring to are in Darfur, a religious conflict where the U.S. government is actively trying stay out even though thousands of innocent Christians are being raped and starved.

Gee, I wonder how things would change if Sudan suddenly discovered a lot of oil...

[manic expression]

31. Very good point n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Oh of course

And mean while here in the States the "opporested" Fundies go around and claim they can't say "Merry Christmas" like that's a huge problem while in another country there are Christian's having a horrible life. *Sigh* :cry: Nobody wanting to give a damn.

[Spiffarino]

25. Lots of good retorts, but with minor corrections

Maybe I didn't catch what you were referring to, but I am pretty sure these are mistakes:

Sunnis and Shiites have been enemies since the time when Shiites originally were called Zorathians and were invaded by Arabs back around the time of Cygnus - American cowboys with bombs will not all of a sudden bring them together - unless it's to kill Americans who have invaded the soil they are warring over.

I think Zoroastrians is what you were alluding to. Zoroastrianism was a dominant religion in Persia from around 1000 B.C. and was the religion of the Magi from the New Testament story of the Birth of Christ.

Cygnus means swan in Latin. Cyrus (the Great) was ruler of Persia in the 6th C. B.C.

As I said before, these are just minor corrections. The overwhelming majority of what you said is dead on.

K&R :kick:

[noahmijo]

34. Yep you are right on those corrections

due to my sleepiness I accidently blended history that is hundreds of years apart into one.

Hey Steve Speilberg did it with Jurassic Park :)

But anyways my point with that was one thing that still remains true is that the original peoples of Persia were Zoroastrians who defied Arab invasion and rule by adopting their own brand of Islam which later became known as Shia or The Shiites as we know them today.

[Spiffarino]

43. Thanks, and I didn't mean to be snarky or anything

...I just wanted to make sure I was clear on what you were saying.

By the way, :yourock:

[bleever]

26. Wow. Are those your words? Those are great words.

I enjoyed reading that immensely.

Here's to the Us that includes people like You:

:toast:

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. Here is the quickest way, Ask them how much they cared about the

Iraqis before Pinhead** wanted to "liberated" them? And ask them why they seem to care about the Iraqis, when they don't even care about their own fellow Americans? Bet they don't have an answer to that. Sad!

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Very well done

:) I'll have to keep in mind some of your points.

[Rosco T.]

36. noted and filed!!!!

[shenmue]

38. Brilliant!

Get him! Boot him up the ass!

:applause:

:patriot:

:loveya:

[Martin Eden]

40. We're fighting them over THERE so we don't have to fight them HERE

Whenever some freeper brings up the "flypaper" theory (which is bullshit to begin with because we're fighting mostly Iraqis who wouldn't be fighting us at all if we hadn't invaded their country, and we're creating MORE jihadis in the process) I say something like:

So you're saying we turned the streets of Iraqi cities into a bloody battleground to attract the jihadis so we can kill them there. Kinda destroys your arguments that we're doing this for the good of the Iraqi people.

[xchrom]

41. woohoo

:woohoo:

[Berserker]

42. I think that has to be

one of the best posts ever on DU. Thanks for that noahmijo.

[chrisbur]

44. Should be titled,

"Quickest way to assure a fellow DUer." Listen, I've tried this almost verbatim,over and over again with co-workers at the "job site". They don't care. Different way of looking at the world I guess. They are scared animals looking for protection from other scared animals. It's all in the perception management. I'm sorry about the negativity but I believe we're a lot further in the hole than we know.

Oh yeah, and don't get even the smallest detail wrong because if they find out it just reinforces their faith and makes any of your future tirades objects of amusing collective ridicule. The truth is strong but the herd mentality may be stronger.

[noahmijo]

46. well ain't THAT the truth!!

I feel ya, I know when you argue with a freeper you better know damn well what color the shoes were of every player you're talking about that was involved in whatever event you were discussing otherwise it's all just liberal propaganda that you're spewing. As if they even live up to the same standards they try to apply on you.

Meantime they can quote some has been neo-con radio jock who says that Clinton snuck on a boat in LA and sold entire nuclear stockpiles to the Chinese for cash to spend on hookers in Beverly Hills and by god if you don't take that as a fact you must be a total communist.

[chrisbur]

47. I'm glad you took that the right way.

Even with all the good news lately I'm feeling somewhat demoralized. It's a long hard slog I guess but we ARE making progress. One thing that worries me is that outside forces that truly wish to do America harm may use our successes to their advantage thereby undermining our credibility. Face it the Right has had a better footing with all their simplicity and absolutism. Corporate media has had a LOOOng time to ruin the minds of the American populace.

[noahmijo]

45. You are all WAY too kind I thank you though

I was just venting really hadn't been on DU for awhile and I had recently got done having a very similar conversation with someone earlier that went alot like the example one I posted concerning the Iraq War.

I still believe that everything I said most of you already knew, I just put it in, as one DU'er who responded to this put it, a snarky way to really make the points sting the unsuspecting freeper.

Happy Holidays,Merry Christmas, Happy Hannakah, Happy Kwanza, Bah Humbug, and I wish you a very Merry finally I get a freakin paid day off on a Monday instead of a Sunday....day! :)

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :silly: :silly: :hi: :hi: :grouphug: :grouphug: :yourock: :yourock: :woohoo: :woohoo: :patriot:

[Joe Chi Minh]

48. "If Jesus truly existed,

your kind would the first to put him right back up on the cross-only you'd say it was necessary to fight the communists".

Loved the Communist bit! Yet truth is stranger than fiction. Remember that post, citing the words of an advisor to various Presidents, in which he pointed out that, by that time, the word "Communist" was really used to designate anyone they didn't like?

But the rant below was brilliant, too!

Me: "No you NEVER gave two shits about anything or anyone Iraqi up until all of a sudden your president loaded you with a couple of 5 minute sound bites and you got out your poms poms and your fuckin foam #1 hand that you wave at football games and now all of a sudden you're an armchair humanitarian. The enlistment age is 39. The government needs more bodies for their continued quest for victory for the theocratic nation of Iran and Muslim terrorists everywhere. I suggest you quit fuckin stalling and get to the nearest recruiting station. They need more simple minded flat earthers like you RIGHT NOW."

[mtnsnake]

49. Enjoyed that! Here's one of mine that I use on the Rush Limbaugh listeners

Whenever I come across an acquaintance who makes it known to me that they listen to Rush, I always give them one of the two following responses:

1) "Why is it you can't think for YOURSELF?"

or if they really piss me off...

2) "Why am I not surprised that someone like Rush Limbaugh has to do your thinking for you?"

If I think there's any hope for the person, I usually give them reply #1.

[Justice Is Comin]

50. Your one liners should be accompanied with the

picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. Good knockdowns for the permanently stupid.

[ananda]

52. Wow, thanks!

My two faves are:

You're not pro-life you're anti-choice and pro-death if you support war and the death penalty-in other words your issue is control not life.

and


If Jesus truly existed your kind would the first to put him right back up on the cross-only you'd say it was necessary to fight the communists.


Whoa!

[BrklynLiberal]

53. Perfect! I am proud to round off the recommends at a perfect 4-0!

[harpo]

57. my one liner: Why aren't you over there fighting for your war?

puts them on the defensive right from the start