MORE TROUBLE FOR ROVE-Withheld E-mail After 2 Subpoenas

[kpete]

Rove, Hadley email 'at crux' of CIA leak investigation
Jason Leopold


According to people close to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's probe, one such document was never turned over to the grand jury by the Feb. 6, 2004 deadline: an email White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove had sent in July 2003 to then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, in which Rove told Hadley that he spoke to Cooper about Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, a vocal critic of the administration's prewar Iraq intelligence.

The grand jury subpoenaed the White House for any information concerning contacts with the 25 reporters on Jan. 22, 2004. It was the second time a directive was issued ordering White House officials to turn over records to determine if officials had spoken about Plame, her husband, and the administration's claims that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium-the key component for a nuclear bomb-from Niger with journalists.

Three months earlier, in late 2003, then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales enjoined all White House staff to turn over any communication about Valerie Plame Wilson and her husband. Gonzales' request came 12 hours after senior White House officials had been told of the pending investigation. The email Rove sent to Hadley never turned up in that request either, people close to the investigation said.

Rove's alleged failure to disclose his conversations with Cooper and Novak and the fact that he didn't turn over the Hadley email on two separate occasions is the reason he's been in Fitzgerald's crosshairs and may end up being indicted, people close to the investigation said.
It's also the reason Fitzgerald had grown suspicious at the time that Rove may have hid or destroyed evidence related to his role in the leak, they said, adding that Fitzgerald may have already been aware of the existence of the email, perhaps even obtaining a copy from a witness or another White House official, and waited to see if Rove would cite it or his conversations with Cooper in his grand jury testimony.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Rove_Hadley_email_at_crux_of_1216.html

[texpatriot2004]

1. So subpoenas don't apply to them. n.t

[orwell]

2. Along with all other law...n/t

[H2O Man]

3. If not for that high level

of trust that this administration has established with the American people, including DUers, we might suspect that there is some funny business going on here.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. LOL. I do wonder, from a practical point of view, how they actually

find all the emails. I mean, I know you can do a search of course, but let's say they deleted a shitload of stuff before Gonzales told them, officially, to turn stuff over.

Hey, I bet they deleted that email to begin with. Or at least, transferred it to another directory or something. Well, then they realized they needed it to help clear him - so they had to either reinstate it - or recreate it (which I have heard people say that it couldn't have been written when he said it was for various reasons).

But, Hadley didn't disclose it either....So that would be 2 errors that are too coincidental to believe (liken to bogus election results circa 2000 and 2004)

[Beetwasher]

10. Or It's A Forgery and Didn't Exist Yet

n/t

[H2O Man]

15. It could be a forgery.

I noted with interest when you proposed that before. But, as LPYB notes, it is almost worse if they didn't. The idea that they tried to get rid of the record, and then felt a need to retrieve it -- a combination of theories, so to speak -- is also possible. The only thing that seems impossible, at least to me, is the story that they just plum forgot about it until Ms. Novak shared inside information over lunch-time drinks with Luskin.

[Beetwasher]

19. Indeed

That's very, very plausible. There's hardly a doubt in my mind that there's been some destruction of evidence. Perhaps they realized they destroyed TOO much and had to backtrack and "edit" things a bit.

In any event, I really don't see any way out of this Rove.

[H2O Man]

23. I remember long, long ago

in a class taught by a very experienced law enforcement official .... he said that there are 100 ways to catch any criminal; the smart ones can think of 25 ways to cover their tracks, and the briliant ones can think of 50 .... but that still leaves half the clues. This smells of a cover-up, and one that is beginning to decompose, at that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. another interesting tidbit...

same source


The memo itself is an interesting artifact. When I first read about it, I interpreted it as Rove's attempt to establish an alibi -- i.e. "Cooper tried to get me to talk about Wilson's wife, but I didn't go for it, nosirree." But in hindsight, it looks more to me like Rove was trying to con Hadley into believing that he (Rove) was not poaching on his turf. My guess is that there was an agreement in place that the NSC would respond to questions about Niger, which Rove and Libby of course were violating with their trash Joe Wilson campaign.

[leftchick]

41. Now that is brilliant!

I like the way that fellow thinks. And you too of course! I am smelling that stink through my computer speakers it is so bad.

:)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. Have you read this ?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/5/142729/849

So let's play the game.

Here's my Fishy Email Theory

Since it's my game I'll go first. I realize that this is a bit goofy, but I'm trying to make it fun. All joking aside, this is how I think it went down. I believe it is important to figure this out, and I welcome criticism and competing theories to help further solve this puzzle.

So here goes...

One thing we know, is that Rove's email to Hadley on July 11, 2003 is very misleading. Rove says to Hadley:



Matt Cooper called to give me a heads-up that he's got a welfare-reform story coming. When he finished his brief heads-up, he immediately launched into Niger. Isn't this damaging? Hasn't the president been hurt? I didn't take the bait, but I said if I were him, I wouldn't get Time far out in front on this.

Of course, in 2005 Cooper reports that he testified that Rove told him that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA:



... notes, and my subsequent e-mails, go on to indicate that Rove told me material was going to be declassified in the coming days that would cast doubt on Wilson's mission and his findings."
...Rove added that she worked on "WMD" (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. This was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife.

So:

1. Either Cooper is lying? I don't think so.
2. The email is a forgery? This has been discussed, (most comphensively by emptywheel in the above reference) and is definitely another possibility which should be explored, but I also don't think so. Too many people would have to be involved, and the email contents is not exculpatory enough.
3. Rove wrote a bogus email to Hadley on July 11, 2003. I think this is it.

Here's how I now think the whole thing went down. This is not my work, but rather a summary of lots of work done on pollyusa's diary UPDATE: WAPO: Viveca/Luskin talk before Rove's 1st testmony in early 2004

Rove did write the email to Hadley after he got done talking to Cooper. Why he would not tell Hadley the truth, is very curious. Perhaps he thought he was creating some sort of bogus paper trail or maybe he there was an agreement that Hadley's Bob Novak would get the scoop and he was lying to Hadley. He then may have tried to hide the email, or simply withheld it hoping it wouldn't be found. The investigators got hold of the email in some search but didn't tell anyone. They wouldn't be under any obligation to tell anyone. Rove testified in February that he never talked to Cooper even though Viveca Novak had tipped Luskin off about Cooper. He was figuring that Fitz either didn't have the email or would not compel Cooper to talk. If Fitz did have the email and confronted him with it, Rove would just say it was no big deal, all it said was that he told Cooper not to get too far out ahead. So, Fitz had Rove on something, but what? If Cooper corroborated Rove's story, then it was just a heads up for Time not to get too far out on Wilson. Fitz needed Cooper's tesitmony.

Sometime later in 2004 Rove/Luskin must have started to suspect that Fitz had the email, so Rove figured he better cough it up. He produced the email and went in and testified. Here he probably testified consistent with the contents of the email. Fitz now had Rove on record to the contents of the email, and he still needed Cooper's testimony to validate the story.

Finally, Cooper testifies in 2005, and low and behold, he says Rove did tell him Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Rove may have held out hopes that Cooper would testify to the contents of the Rove/Hadley email, which by now is in the press, but he didn't. Rove reads Coopers description of his testimony and decides to go back in and cop to Cooper's testimony.

Rove's defense is a bad memory. He couldn't find the email at first since he used the wrong search words and had forgotten about the discussion when he first testified. The email jogged his memory, but when he testified in October 2004 the email had only succeeded in reminding him that he had talked to Cooper, not that he told Cooper that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. It wasn't until he got Cooper's description of his testimony that he knew the jig was up, and he'd better remember it all, so back to the GJ again.

Viveca Novack was introduced to suggest that even through Luskin/Rove got some strong hints from Viveca that they were going after Cooper, this was not enough to jog Rove's memory. There is nothing to this, it doesn't really help Rove at all, but it was enough to cause Fitz to hold off on the indictment until he had Viveca's testimony.

Now, we know Fitz is going after the cover-up. It has been speculated that going after the original crime would be more difficult. Notice how the bad memory defense here is an ostensible rational for NOT having engaged in perjury or obstruction. It does not protect Rove from the original charge. In fact, it confirms Cooper's testimony and proves that the email the Rove/Hadley email was misleading. We can speculate why Rove would lie to Hadley, which would drive into the original crime, but let's try to stay focused on obstruction and perjury.

I don't know what you call it, but Rove did something very misleading when he wrote the Rove/Hadley email in the first place. The email was written on the same day as he talked with Cooper. This is like leaving false clues at the scene of a crime.

On October 15, 2004 when he testified to the Grand Jury to the contents of the Rove/Hadley email, and did not reveal that he had told Cooper about Wilson's wife. It seems to me that this also falls into the category of misleading the investigation, even if he says that was his recollection. Again, the analogy would be leaving false clues at the scene of a crime, and later testifying that that was the way it went down. In this context, does the bad memory defense hold up?

Well, that's my fishy email theory. Now, if you really want to have some fun, try to figure out what was going on that would lead Rove to write the misleading email to Hadley. Why would Rove be lying to Hadley about his conversation with Wilson? What relevance does this fact have on an investigation into a conspiracy to out Wilson's wife? Does it show that Rove and Hadley were coordinating their actions?

Thanks for playing along this far... Your turn now...

Got any fishy email theories or thoughts?

[H2O Man]

29. Very interesting!

From Cooper's article, "What I Told the Grand Jury" (Time; 7-25-05; pages 38-40):

"As I told the grand jury -- and we went over this in microscopic, excruciating detail, which may someday prove relevant -- I recalled calling Rove from my office at TIME magazine through the White House switchboard and being transfered to his office. I believe a woman answered the phone and said words to the effect that Rove wasn't there or was busy before going on vacation. But then, I recall, she said something like, 'Hang on,' and I was transfered to him. I recall saying something like, 'I'm writing about Wilson,' ....

"The grand jury asked about one of the more interesting lines in that e-mail (Cooper to his boss about the conversation with Rove, quoted below), in which I refer to my conversation with Rove as being on 'double super secret background' (The line was Cooper's, not Rove's).... In fact, I told the grand jury, Rove told me the conversation was on 'deep background.' I explained to the grand jury that I take the term to mean that I can use the material but not quote it, and that I must keep the identity of my source confidential."

Cooper also testified that he had no notes indicating that he discussed welfare reform with Rove that day, and he has no memory of doing so. This is significant, because he does remember the rest of the conversation in detail, and kept notes, including this e-mail to his supervisor:

"Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation .... his big warning ... don't get too far out on wilson .... says that DCIA didn't authorize the trip and Cheney didn't authorize the trip. it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues, who authorized the trip. not only genesis of the trip is flawed ans suspect but so is the report. he implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fron Niger ... some of this is going to be declassified in the coming days, KR said. don't get too far out in front, he warned. then he bolted.... will include in next file."

Rove ended the conversation by saying, "I've already said too much." It seems highly unlikely he forgot it, and forgot notifying Hadley about it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. this is quite an interesting read too....

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2005/12/tampering_with_.html#more

[Beetwasher]

31. The Reason I Think It's More Plausible That It's A Forgery

Is that it supports a cover story that Rove could have only thought up much later AFTER he knew Cooper was going to testify. How would he know to craft the email to support a cover story he could only have thought up so much later; i.e. my conversation w/ Cooper was no big deal, it was about welfare reform and he tried to get me to talk about Plame but I wouldn't. See, at the time he spoke to Cooper originally, he had every reason to believe that coversation would never see the light of day.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. but .. on the other hand, if you are going to forge an email, why not

make it more exculpatory? Cooper and Rove DID talk about something benign that day, other than Plame, right. Why not use that instead of Welfare Reform - which they didn't talk about at all, right? Hell, maybe he forgot ! Yes. Maybe that is it. Maybe you are right, it was forged, but Rove forgot what the benign subject in the phone call was?

I see both sides. But I think that I am leaning toward the email being real. But, rove hid it, because it showed he talked to a reporter. Maybe he withheld it the first subpoena and then figured he had to suppress it for the second subpoena as well, because he had already told the FBI and Fitz that he never talked to Cooper. But then shucks, Cooper talked. And, this email was the ONLY thing that would save him (albeit not totally exculpatory)

Whatever they did, there is no way in hell it is all on the up-and-up. Hell, if we can half figure it out, surely Fitz can !

[H2O Man]

35. If it were

a recreation or an outright forgery seems less important than it appearing to be an attempt to go back and cause confusion for anyone trying to get at the truth. Often, one finds the greatest confusion is a result of mixing some truth with lies: half-truths can allow a liar to say, "Well, despite what it looks like, I really intended to say ______, but used a poor choice of words." The e-mail appears to reflect a consciousness of guilt, in that it tries to plant such a half-truth, in my opinion.

[Beetwasher]

37. Right

In any event, it DOES show he talked to Cooper about Plame and didn't tell the feds or produce the email until much, much later. And that, regardless of the circumsances is a very clear crime. Ignorance is no excuse.

[H2O Man]

39. Karl hasn't made a career

out of being stupid or forgetful. He has made one from being, at the very least, on the edge of outright lying. People born square never die round.

[Beetwasher]

40. Yup. You Know, My Theory On The Forgery Is Really Mostly Based

on visceral instinct (well that and I think it would explain a lot and fill in many blanks in this situation). It's just something that would fit his M.O. to a 't'. It's the type of thing he's known for. That, and he was backed into a corner when he knew Cooper was rolling. And creatures like Rove, when backed into a corner 1. get desperate and 2. fall back on their tried and true tricks and Rove and forgery are very, very old friends, so it would be no surprise at all that he would fall back to it in a desperate situation.

I wonder how anxious Fitz is to get his hands on the WH email server?

[Olney Blue]

51. But they can die rounded.

[Beetwasher]

36. Rove's Cover Would Work Like This

(not that it's believable)

Well, I forgot about the coversation because it wasn't really about Plame, it was about Welfare reform AND that's why it didn't turn up in searches, because it was "filed" or whatever under welfare reform. The Plame reference was made in passing and not really relevant, so that's why I forgot and that's why it didn't turn up in searches for stuff on Plame, because the coversation AND email wasn't necessarily Plame related.

Remember, he was busted dead to rights when he found out Cooper was turning, so he had to do SOMETHING. The fact that they talked was going to come out, the best he could do was to get a cover in place that would explain WHY they talked, but make him look less guilty and explain why the email didn't turn up during the two subpoenas. He could no longer deny the coversation, he could only turn it into a he said/she said issue; IOW, well MY recollection of the coversation was that it was about Welfare reform, either I'm lying or Cooper is and you've got no way to PROVE it one way or another, except at least I have evidence (the email) to support MY side.

At that point in the game (when he knew Cooper was going to roll), the ONLY option Rove had was to soften his crime, to make it look more like a mistake than an acutal premeditated crime. The fact that he spoke to Cooper was coming out, all he could do was try to mitigate it and obfuscate it.

[H2O Man]

38. Good points.

According to Cooper's article in Time, he had attempted to reach Rove as a source for a story about welfare reform about a week earlier. One could speculate, as Cooper did, that Rove had originally told the grand jury that welfare reform was indeed the topic of his talk with Cooper. However, it is unlikely Rove would request "deep background" for welfare reform. It does make it seem far more likely that the e-mail to Hadley was possibly a recreation, or perhaps more likely an outright forgery.

[H2O Man]

21. It is not possible

that both Hadley and Rove, two intelligent people who were clearly interested in the Plame issue, just "forgot." It does not speak well for either that they would expect others to believe that. It just reminds me of talking to people suspected of "being up to no good" and having them try to tell such an obvious lie .... and looking them in the eye and saying, "You realize, of course, that your lie won't 'catch up' to me, right?"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. read post #24 - interesting analysis. n/t

[Demoiselle]

48. A computer expert tells me that you can't really erase stuff.

He says that once something is on the hard drive, it can always be retrieved/reconstructed. There are techies
who specialize in such retrieval. Is he right? I'm basically in the Victorian Era when it comes to computers.

[thereismore]

17. That was funny. I enjoeyd it. nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. So what about Hadley too?? He was the recipient. That makes

two people guilty - the sender AND the recipient...

[Beetwasher]

8. Right, Where's Hadley's Copy?

This is why I think it very well may be a forgery. See below.

[leveymg]

5. Sounds like Obstruction of Justice to me.

Let's see. Add five years to product cooling time. Serve cold.

[Beetwasher]

6. I Think It's Even Worse, I Think The Hadley Email is a Forgery

Created to give Rove SOME sort of cover story. The email details a conversation that is totally different than what Cooper reports it was and it makes it seem as if Rove was talking about Health Care and "didn't take the bait" about Plame.

The forgery theory would explain why they didn't turn it over originally; it didn't exist yet. They only created it after they got at least some sort of a handle on what was going on in the case and who was saying what, and after they realized Cooper was going to roll.

If Fitz gets his hands on the WH email server, boy oh boy.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. Yes, he should supoena the log files for the original date = could

you phony up those too? Hell ya, if you can rig election servers, email servers are a piece a cake !

think you are right !

[madrchsod]

16. i think he already has that server

there`s more trails with emails than with regular mail and i don`t think alot of people think of that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. hmm. Surely they are not stupid enough to create a bogus email

when Fitz already has the original server?

[Beetwasher]

30. I Don't Think So

We would certainly have heard about that because the admin. would fight it tooth and nail and it would have been reported on. I believe that sort of thing would happen during the discovery phase of a trial, not during a GJ investigation.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. here's what the GJ asked for - you may be right....

"or the time period February 1, 2002 to the present, all documents, including without limitation all electronic records, telephone records of any kind (including but not limited to any records that memorialize telephone calls having been made), correspondence, computer records, storage devices, notes, memoranda, and diary and calendar entries, that relate in any way to:


Former U.S. Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, his trip to Niger in February 2002, and/or his wife's purported relationship with the Central Intelligence Agency;


Contacts with any member or representative of the news media about Joseph C. Wilson, his trip to Niger in February 2002, and/or his wife's purported relationship with the Central Intelligence Agency; and


Contacts with reporters Knut Royce, Timothy M. Phelps, or Robert D. Novak, or any individual(s) acting directly or indirectly, on behalf of these reporters."

[Missy Vixen]

44. I think he does, too

I live with someone who has worked in the software industry for 20 years, and whose employer is a leader in network and e-mail security. He says he believes that the investigators have the server. He also had a good laugh over the incomplete hard drive wipe.

Let's hope...

Julie
president for life of the PFEB

[FreedomAngel82]

18. It could be

Right now they're doing all they can to save their asses including fake Emails. And here people say Rove is a "genius." Oy.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

27. another theory

The memo itself is an interesting artifact. When I first read about it, I interpreted it as Rove's attempt to establish an alibi -- i.e. "Cooper tried to get me to talk about Wilson's wife, but I didn't go for it, nosirree." But in hindsight, it looks more to me like Rove was trying to con Hadley into believing that he (Rove) was not poaching on his turf. My guess is that there was an agreement in place that the NSC would respond to questions about Niger, which Rove and Libby of course were violating with their trash Joe Wilson campaign.

[thefloyd]

7. Rove surely will get indicted along with Hadley

Check that. Both will definitely get indicted. Especially Rove. I am not a lawyer but jesus does not take a lawyer to smell a bullshit story.

[MidwestTransplant]

11. Fitz is with the GJ today as I posted but nobody seems to care!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2315916&mesg_id=2315916

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. I care ! Thanks MT

[sabra]

20. you didn't post it in GD, that's where it's at :-) LOL

[WiseButAngrySara]

28. I care too. I would suggest reposting this in GD, so more will see! n/t

[ck4829]

13. If this isn't an obstruction of justice at the least...

Then I don't know what is.

War on Christmas

War against Christmas

[Neil Lisst]

42. I believe Rove will be indicted.

His lawyer used a very clever ploy. He knew that the last thing Fitz wanted to do was overreach in the first indictments. By approaching Fitz at the last minute with a tale that seemed to provide a possible explanation supporting Rove, his attorney effectively stopped Fitz from indicting.

Now, after Fitz has had time to sift through all that, it's even more apparent that Rove has been playing him. Fitz is headed to the indictment, which is why we hear ROBERT NOVAK suddenly calling on Bush to speak up. Novak and Rove are joined at the hip and have been for decades. Rove believes he will be indicted, so in an attempt to head that off, he has Novak come out with his statement which says ASK BUSH.

Why? Why now? I'll tell you. He hopes to shift the focus from Rove to Bush, and force Bush to own up and pardon everyone.

[No Exit]

43. Santa Baby,

Just slip an indictment under the tree
Do it for me
Been an awful good girl
Santa Baby, so hurry down the chimney tonight!

Santa Baby, a little jail time too,
For Karl and Scoot
And all the boys in the cabal,
Santa Baby, so hurry down the chimney tonight!

Come and trim my Christ-mas tree,
With some charges from the U.S. attor-ney,
I really do believe in you,
Let's see if you believe in me!

Santa Baby, forgot to mention one little thing,
Handcuffs around their wrists,
And a little strip-search,
Santa Baby, so hurry down the chimney tonight!

[LibertyorDeath]

45. Love it !

Santa Baby! :)

This just gets better and better with each passing day.

Nothing like hanging an indictment over someones head to add to the christmas Stress.

Rove you vile pig you are Fucked...Fucked I tell Ya!!

[No Exit]

49. Love the mugshot!! I mean... pigshot!

[symbolman]

46. Looks like Fitzmas to me!

I think we're going to get a "two fer" when Fitz talks to the media.. Hadley & Rove, definately Rove.. and I'll tell you WHY..

It's ROVE'S ORIGINAL FBI interviews, he's always OWNED the FBI, back in Texas he used them as a personal attack force, hatchet men.. BUT with his Hubris in full bloom when he was giving info to the FBI while Ashcroft was in charge and he LIED to them then, "Take a pile of cash with you when you leave my office boys.."

NOW Fitz has THOSE documents and NO WHERE is there a mention of Cooper and some other things we'll hear about.. the ORIGINAL FBI interviews will SINK ROVE, that's my final call :)

Meanwhile - MERRY FITZMAS! Decorate YOUR own Fitzmas TREE!

********

I wanted a Fitzmas Tree ever since I heard the term invented on the Web, and NOW by god I have one, and you can too..

YOU can actually DECORATE YOUR OWN FITZMAS TREE, by dragging and dropping Ornaments and dropping them on the FITZMAS TREE - if an Ornament sticks to your "hand" it may be because of the slimy people encased within, just give it another mouse click on the tree to shake it off. The first flash can be found here:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmas.swf

But there are two Flashes that interact with each other - one is the Fitzmas Tree itself, with a box FULL of decorations, the decorations being the Subjects of Indictments, Investigations, etc - something your Right Wing brother-in-law might also be interested in knowing, lots of facts

If you click (click all over the page, lots of surprises on it) on the TITLE's of the Flashes you can go between the Tree itself, and another Flash that will load up with all the Decorations and an explanation of WHO they are, and WHAT they did.. for folks that don't know much about the Plame Outing they can get educated on the Ornaments and then click on back to the Tree and Decorate the Hell out of it

The first link goes to the Fitzmas Tree itself, but like I said, you can click to the other Flash for more info, or a pal can get more info and Trim the Tree after.

You can check out the Ornaments information at this link secondly (but maybe miss some surprises where the Presents are in the first link) HERE:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmasornaments.swf

In case you're wondering what that building is in the background, it's the HAGUE, I thought it rather appropriate - and the guys in ORANGE, well, I think you'll recognize them

And don't forget to open the presents under the FITZMAS TREE, I wrapped them special just for YOU.



Oh, and here's a little graphic that ya'll can feel free to use as well - snag it, USE IT, my gift to you:

[lonestarnot]

47. He's going down down down into that ring of fire... pants too!

[Scout1071]

50. Flames gettin' higher. And it burns, burns, burns....like a ring of fire,

like a ring of fire.

Rove. Meet Fire.