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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:08 PM
Original message
Sacramento Family Claims Title of Nation's Largest (17 kids)
Sacramento Family Claims Title of Nation's Largest
Written for the web by C. Johnson, Internet News Producer



Jonathan Mumm's Report
A Sacramento family may have a very valid argument for being the largest family in the U.S. The Chernenkos just had their 17th child.

A great deal of media attention has been focused lately on the Duggar family in Arkansas. They have 16 children and say they could have more. However, the Chernenkos, who came from the Ukraine, have had 17 children in 24 years of marriage.

"When we got married, it was back in the Ukraine," Vladimir Chernenko said to News10 through a translator. "In six months we didn't have any children and I didn't think we'd be having any children at all!"

That all soon changed. Twenty-two-year-old Sergey was the first child born to the couple. He soon got plenty of company. The Chernenkos have had a child nearly every year since.

http://www.kxtv.com/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=14826
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Large families
are not unusual in my area. We have a large population of Finish people that belong to the Apostolic Church and they regularly have a dozen or more children. Nearly one every year.

I know one family that had seventeen.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's way too extreme
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 12:35 PM by FreedomAngel82
If I had a husband who wanted that many kids I'd tell him "hell no." I'd have at least two and than get my tubes tied. And you're expecting a child within the first six months of marriage? Whatever! Whatever happened to just enjoying each other first?
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Saying no often isn't an option for these women
Head of the household, punishment for Eve's sin, submissive wife, and all that jazz.
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Generally it's selfish men who don't want kids.
I know a lot more couples with no kids where the woman wants them, but the man doesn't.

Another bit of bad news, every one of these families are progressive Democrats.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. A wonderful example for all!!!
People in Russia and the Ukraine would do well to follow this family's lead. And many educated, yuppie types here in the USA could do well to have a few children rather than putting materialism as their first goal.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. LOL! Lost?
Yep, those Russians who are 90% living in abject poverty should have 17 kids! Wheee! And all those fucking smarty pants rich Americans should procreate! In fact, if they don't have any children - HANG EM HIGH!

:nuke:
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ever actually been to Russia lately???
I was there two weeks ago -- and yes, the standard of living is lower than our's (as it is in countries like Sweden as well). However, it is getting better all the time and there is not the kind of poverty there you might find in Africa. If the country can increase its birthrate this will provide the needed workforce to make Russia a great country and a counterbalance to the EU.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yeah, right.
And I was on the planet Saturn last Sunday. :nuke:
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. What's your problem?????
You can believe or not believe me. However, what's so unusual about visiting Russia? If you have constructive comments (pro or con) let's see them, but my passport has more than Russian visas stamped in it. So what?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. What's your problem???????
With educated yuppies not having children? Who the HELL are you to dictate who should have children? And what kind of assumption is that? If I'm upwardly mobile and have two college degrees, how do you know what I choose to spend my money on? How do you know I don't donate half my salary to charity? And oh, your comments above about how all the assholes (usually men) who are selfish and don't want children are progressive DEMOCRATS pretty much blew your cover Arse.
:nuke:
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Excuse me but...
What do you mean "cover"? Maybe I see it sad that many progressive type people (who actually care about where this planet is heading) choose not to have kids. These people should raise kids in my opinion.

Also, if you would like I can tell you a thing or two about Russia that perhaps only one who has been there could relate. I'm open to an apology about being called a liar for stating the fact that I have traveled throughout European Russia.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Liar because of this:
I know a lot more couples with no kids where the woman wants them, but the man doesn't.

Another bit of bad news, every one of these families are progressive Democrats.


So you've never met a childless couple who were not Democrats? Do you know the politics of every single couple you've ever met?

Again, who are you to make such a proclamation that these people need to create or adopt babies? Would you also like to instruct me how I should be having sexual relations? Is that another area you feel compelled to Dictate upon other Free human beings?
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Back to the topic.
No, I do not know any Republican couples (personally) who are childless by choice. All of them have at least a couple of kids.

In my profession I do work mainly with people on the left side of the political spectrum. And I do know couples who have chosen not to have kids but in my PERSONAL sphere of associations it is the male side of the equation that has made the choice with the female not so adimate about it. Sorry, that's just what I see in my area of friends/associates.

And if you have not been keeping up, economists are saying that the reason progressive states in Europe are scaling back benefits (yes, even in Sweden) is due to the huge number of soon-to-be-pensioners but backed up by a small youth demographic that will be unable to keep up the hard-won advances of the 30s - 60s. The same I fear will happen here when young people start getting high tax bills and they start griping about having to keep the babyboomers up.

So maybe the lack of births is something that liberal/progressive people might try to address before the globalist/neo-con neo-liberalistic types use the demographic timebomb to explode Social Security, public education and every other advance we associate with progressivism.

And Riply, I guess you've given up on the idea of questioning my travels. Good.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. So everyone you know announces their party affiliation?
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 04:56 PM by Ripley
As an Independent, I'm sure most people who have spent time with me would understand I am a liberal and might assume I'm a Dem. But I'm not. So, again with the assumptions.

This thread is not even about having a child or two. It is about someone having 17 kids and you started off by saying EVERYONE SHOULD DO THAT! Which is the most non-progressive idea I have ever heard. The reasons are many, but I'll stick to a couple. The burden on the planet Earth (resources wrenched out her), the burden on already over-taxed social services in America (and elsewhere) and the continued degradation of already overcrowded schools.

Besides, who the HELL can afford that many kids? Answer: No one but Bill Gates.
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Now we are getting somewhere.
I never said everyone should have 17 kids. Nut maybe if we see examples of people who make it with 17 kids then our own two or three (or more if someone wants that many) won't seem so impossible to handle.

I don't think we are really all that at odds with each other.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Uh, yeah we are.
Let me guess, you're a Man. Do you maybe think that women stopped having 12-17 kids for a REASON? Perhaps that being the advent of birth control, gaining rights as a citizen, deciding they did not DESIRE to be a brood mare, and um, the fact that THEY WERE TIRED OF DYING YOUNG.
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Now that's not nice.
Just because a woman might desire a large family doesn't make her subject to being compared to an animal.

Also, women who have large families experience less breast cancer, uterine cancer and ever since the studies of Emile Dirkheim it has been shown they are less likely to commit suicide.

I think modern-day materialism keeps many people focused more on the fetish of designer shoes, expensive cars, etc. than on family. It seems progressive people would be the first to recognize this. The modern religion of materialism is the worship of money and pride. I always thought the object of progressive thought was to combat these evils. Maybe I'm too influenced by hippie thought though.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. What the hell does that have to do with Yuppies in America?
And if you're so worried about materialism, why did you bring up Sweden's standard of living? Been to Sweden lately? I lived there -- and those people are a hell of a lot less materialistic than people from Heartland USA -- so, which is it?
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Because yuppies seem to have forgotten how to reproduce.
And what part of Sweden did you live? Stockholm? Nykping? Upsalla? Prata do Svenska eller kan du inte prata Svenska?

Also, Swedes are highly materialistic yet when you look at the tax system they have much less take-home pay than the typical American. Oh great, now you have me talking like some right wing Moderate Party type --if they can be called right wing.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Who do you think lives in those McMansions, but YUPPIES?
And they have lots of kids clogging up the roads in their 16th birthday gift BMWs, talking on their cell phones, listening to rap really loud.

Swedes are highly materialistic compared to WHO?

Wow, google a place and suddenly BLAMO you're an EXPERT!

Are you one of those White Power dudes?


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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. I lived in Stockholm
And I don't speak much Swedish. I can say a lot of cuss words, "I Love You," hello and goodbye, sing Swedish union songs, and say some everyday kind of words, like "hiss" and "Gula Sidorna." I can usually read a Swedish web page and catch the gist of what's going on. That's about it. Mostly, I was drunk. :)

I hung out mostly with SAP and LO members, and they didn't seem very materialistic, at all. They all lived in apartments, none of them had cars, etc. I did go on a date with one guy who had a sweet Volkswagen and had horn-rimmed glasses from Hungaria, who took me to Fasching and to eat at some swanky place. That was a peek into the life that was a little different from the other people -- he was actually a winger whose best friend was dating some hot chick in the SAP. They, however, were not -- and did rail on, a bit, about the politics of the "centrists," (I am always reminded to call SAP "centrist," instead of "leftist," by my SAP friends). That, however, was largely not my experience, in Sweden, at all. The Swedes, seemed, to me, to be MUCH less materialistic than, as I said, Heartland USA, where I grew up, and where I now, live again.

I spent most of my days wandering around after 4-beer lunches, and what I observed was that the lifestyle was much less swanky than that of the USA.

As far as yuppies reproducing: In some ways, I'm with you -- I wish that many of the urban liberals would move out here into the sticks, with me, and have a gaggle of kids and set up communes, and have organic farms. I think new urbanism is a fucking joke, and, yeah -- liberals are going to have to reproduce to fight the gaggles of "Jim Bob's Kids" that the fundies are having. Luckily, I'll be dead by then.
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Amen to that!
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 04:58 PM by Rainbow gatherer
"As far as yuppies reproducing: In some ways, I'm with you -- I wish that many of the urban liberals would move out here into the sticks, with me, and have a gaggle of kids and set up communes, and have organic farms. I think new urbanism is a fucking joke, and, yeah -- liberals are going to have to reproduce to fight the gaggles of "Jim Bob's Kids" that the fundies are having. Luckily, I'll be dead by then."


Written by Cats Against Frist

My responce:

And Stockholm is a beautiful place -- especially Gamla Stan. Granalund is also fun to hang out at. But personally, I enjoyed the beaches in Nynasomn and Vsterhaninge the most.

I don't know, I just got the sense that Swedes were too focused on careerism and consumerism (everyone seemed to have to have CanadaGoose coats, disigner handbags and vacation in exotic areas all the time). Maybe I'm spoiled being a child of the Pacific Northwest where things are a lot more laid back and nobody really cares (in most places) what label is on your coat.
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MN ChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Let's see
The average Swede benefits from a per capita GDP insignificantly different from that in the US, has family leave, full access to health care, real unemployment benefits, a cleaner environment, free access to quality education IIRC, and a sane, progressive government.

We sure have a lot to teach those Scandinavians, you betcha.


Enjoy your time here. It will be short.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Why do you care?
I mean, about what "yuppies" have children?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. I had a friend in high school who was one of seventeen
children. I was an only child. Our mothers were the same age, but my mom could have passed for my sister. My friend's mother looked like her great grandmother.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's nothing.
One of my highschool teachers had twenty!

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. That poor woman needs to have her
uterus bronzed. I gotta give her credit for having that many, raising that many and just plain facing the day. I can't even begin to wonder what that could be like....
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almostfamous74 Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's nothing...
My fiance's mom is one of 22 children, all from the same set of parents! It is quite a bit overwhelming come the holidays, and I've only met a few of her relatives so far.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow, my two run me ragged.
Don't get me wrong - I think that parents have every right to have as many kids as they can support. I just can't imagine wanting to have that many.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Did you ever take a look at the website of the Duggar family?
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 02:20 PM by XemaSab
Appalling.

The mother talks about doing laundry at 1 AM and having a near nervous-breakdown.

www.jimbob.info

Enjoy!
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Aren't the oldest kids old enough to help out a little?
Even I manage to help around the house with dishes, laundry, etc., and I'm what most would consider a couch potato.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. They're raising the younger ones
Each of the older kids is partnered with a younger child and is responsible for getting them ready for school, making sure they eat, do their homework, etc. The older girls do the cooking for the family.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Well.... they have 10 boys and 5 girls
and the 12 year old girl makes lunch and the 13 year old makes dinner. :eyes:
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. If these people love kids so much why don't they adopt?
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 02:50 PM by Beaverhausen
Look at the thousands of children out there in foster homes and orphanages who would love to be part of a big loving family.

I just don't get it.
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. After #12 they just walked out on their own
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. She deserves a Motherhood Cross from the President!
Quote:

August 12th had been the birthday of Hitlers mother. On this day each year, the Motherhood Cross was awarded to women who had given birth to the largest number of children. The gold cross went to women who had produced 8 children; silver was for 6 children and bronze was for 4 children


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Women_Nazi_Germany...
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. This family is much more deserving of publicity- adopted 22 handicapped
...boys.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/18/earlyshow/liv...

"The kids don't have to look far to find a role model. Their own father, Jim Silcock, is himself quadriplegic, paralyzed in a diving accident a decade before he met Ann on the Internet.

Back then, Silcock recalls his wife had already eight or nine children.

It was a heck of a lifestyle change, Silcock says of the transition from no children to eight.

It's a lifestyle change that would scare off most men. But since marrying in 1998, the Silcocks have adopted 22 boys with three more adoptions pending.

It was Belles' dream to adopt since she was very small. She says, I saw the movie Oliver when I was 5 or 6 and I walked out of that movie thinking I wanted to adopt orphan boys. "
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akarnitz Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. Big effin' whoop!
My mom is No, 11 of 16, one of her aunts had 18 kids(1 set of twins in there).

When I see big families I I think at least one of these three things:adoption, farmers or traditional Catholics(my mom's family is the third).
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