CNN: Bush accepts McCain call for ban on torture

[Fleshdancer]

It's a "developing story" on CNN right now.

I think I hear Cheney sobbing.

on edit: now they're saying that Rep. Hunter is against this deal and won't sign on to the ban. Reporter is now saying that the WH "lost" on this issue. :wtf: How sick of a statement is THAT?

[Beetwasher]

1. Uh Huh, Sure

Whatever.

[Ilsa]

2. Naaahhh. Bush has Duncan Hunter ready to hold it up.

I don't know how this all works, but I bet Bush surreptiously spoke with Hunter yesterday or this morning to get him to crap on McCain's deal so Bush won't have to live with it, but will appear he is all for McCain's reforms.

[Fleshdancer]

5. yep, something certainly smells here

Rep Hunter made his statement as soon as the agreement was reported.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Play Out The Clock...This Is A Non-Story

So...the Senate votes to include McCai's provisions...it looks good for the Repugnicans and they can play it as feel good. boooosh claims he's being a good guy...smiles around, Wolfie and Tweety sing praises, stenographers write sagas. Then it goes to the House which won't even be back to "work" until early February...then Hunter will bottle it up in his committee for months...then, if he's forced by McCain, then they'll go to "conference committee" to work out yet another compromise...one that would alter the original Senate bill risking the veto and we start all over again. Yawn...

[Cha]

21. Smells like a bush

deal to me.

[derby378]

3. Oh, suuuuuuuure he did...

Let's just wait until it's time for him to sign the bill.

[enki23]

4. and tomorrow he will take credit for the amendment

and the day after tomorrow, he will step up the torture a few notches, only now he will call it "happy patriot freedom tickling."

[azmouse]

6. Bush is just making nice with McCain

because McCain will be his VP next year when Cheney steps down with health problems.

[Robert Cooper]

8. Yep, then McCain is supposed to pardon Bush in '08 nt

[Robert Cooper]

7. CNN.com link + Story

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/15/torture.bill/index.html

McCain, Bush agree on torture ban: GOP officials say the two sides have reached a tentative deal

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After months of opposition, the White House
agreed Thursday to Republican Sen. John McCain's call to ban torture
by U.S. personnel.

...

On Wednesday evening, the House voted 308-122 to urge negotiators to
include McCain's torture ban in the final version of a defense spending bill.

...

McCain's initial bill called for banning all U.S. personnel from engaging in
"cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of detainees. The only changes to his
proposal, McCain said, dealt with people accused of mistreating detainees.

"(It) basically says that if a person, a reasonable person, would feel that
someone was acting under orders ... then it could be a defense in case of
accusation," McCain said. "And there is a provision for legal counsel for those
who are accused (of torture), both civilian and military."

Warner's Republican counterpart in the House, Rep. Duncan Hunter of
California, told CNN's Andrea Koppel, "We're working to merge the two vital
American goals of treating people humanely and at the same time maintaining an
effective intelligence gathering system."

"We think we're about to do something that's good for the country," Hunter
said.

---------------------

(Mods: sorry for the length, hard to cut, advice for the future appreciated)

Bush/Cheney lost :party:

[RDANGELO]

9. I'm sure this will make no difference in policy.

They have been concealing the torture all this time. They will just continue it. The big difference will be that ,if the Dems take control of the House or the Senate, this can be investigated and *bush can be accused of breaking the law.

[Generator]

15. Yep Bush crosses his fingers behind every promise

that's why he "smirks"..he can't resist the JOKE he's playing on everyone all the time. I FOR ONE, trust nothing, nothing that comes out of their lips, their press, their minions, their friends, nothing. This is why I am enraged at the DEMS who continue to trust with those that never tell the truth.

[kpete]

10. DUNCAN HUNTER

says he still wants to torture.

Just spoke on CNN

[AlCzervik]

16. This is the usual set-up, Bush comes out and plays good cop

and then one of his water boys at the direction of Cheney/Rove etc tell them no-go, "time for you to be bad-cop" and then Bush will come out in a few days and make some stateement like "Well i was all for it but the House didn't agree with me, what can i do"

[Ron Mexico]

12. Am I the only one insulted by this bullshit smokescreen?

Lying to me is one thing, but when insulting my intelligence - however much I still have left - is another. Am I the only one here who is about as angry about the bullshit factor as I am about the issue as a whole?

[Solly Mack]

17. No - but I'm outraged more than insulted

[Ron Mexico]

18. I'm both. Note that there is no definition of "cruel and inhumane" in

that bill, either.

"We weren't being cruel, sir. He still has two limbs left."

[Solly Mack]

19. It is, and it isn't, defined - it's based on existing law (fed-internat)

existing Federal and International laws that, I might add, are not being enforced by anyone at all.

"(d) Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment Defined.--In this section, the term ``cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment'' means the cruel, unusual, and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, as defined in the United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment done at New York, December 10, 1984. "


Original McCain amendment
http://www.fcnl.org/issues/item.php?item_id=1567&issue_id=70

United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32438.pdf

See Section 4 of the United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

[Parche]

13. torture bill

I will bet anyone a 6pack of Heineken that Senator Sessions from Alabackwardsbama does not
sign it either..........

[Fleshdancer]

14. Bay Buchanan says there needs to be a provision allowing some people to

torture, perhaps members of the CIA. This is freaking insane.

[Cha]

22. O-Kay...let's start with

scooter libby and he better tell what he knows.

[Ilsa]

23. Well, if we're headed in that direction, Novakula is certain

that W knows. Let's get it out of him. I bet he'd last three seconds.

[Cha]

24. LOL! That's just it..they want to

open that can o worms torture up..it could go in any direction just like it did when they opened it up with war on Iraq.

[Squatch]

20. L-I-P S-E-R-V-I-C-E