weird spontaneous defense of Bush at health food restaurant

[villager]

okay, so I'm in the neighborhood vegetarian Mexican restaurant here in L.A. -- every "chicken" and "beef" dish made with faux beast, Bragg's amino juice on the counter for seasoning, etc. -- and while I'm leaving with my to-go empanadas, a woman at the counter strikes up a conversation about Bush's many deficiencies.

She asks if Bush actually lives in Crawford, or D.C., since he spends less time in the White House than any President in her lifetime (she was in her 70's, I think).

We both talked about what a terrible job Bush was doing, and when she said "no one seems to like him," a Latino in the corner -- eating his bean soup and writing in his journal -- piped up that "Hispanics do -- 42% support Bush," and he seemed proud of the fact.

I was caught off guard -- why does a hippie-ish Chicano start defending Bush? But when I countered with the fact that that "support" meant he was sending most of the Latino youth off to fight his war - and specifically targeting that community for Army recruits -- Apologist Man said it was a "volunteer army" (he, remember, was safely stateside quaffing soup).

"Well, Bush's daughters certainly haven't volunteered," I responded. He said that "was true," (how could he not?), and on that note, I left.

Where the fuck do these people get off "volunteering" their support for our "President?"

I'd never interject if I was in, say, a steakhouse, and two rightwingers were kvelling about how wonderful they thought the Damaged Dauphin was...

[stopbush]

1. Hispanics do? 42%? What am I missing? That doesn't sound

like support to me.

[xchrom]

2. i don't think he's right about support in the hispanic/latino

community at all.
that number -- 42% -- sounds very high.

[villager]

4. it was an out-of-his-ass number, but

I wasn't going to stand around and argue with the deluded soul...

[xchrom]

5. wise of you.

you never know any more what might happen.

[villager]

6. it wasn't that -- I no longer care about "converting" these people

it's a state of Civil War right now, and there are things to do...

[xchrom]

14. lol -- that too!

[villager]

3. well, Mr. Apologist was spinning it that way

Seemed like a weak straw to grasp at to me, too, but what else to Bush "supporters" have left?

[Warpy]

12. That sure as hell isn't the case in New Mexico

where the old Hispanos remember that FDR was the only president this country every had who knew New Mexico existed, and who remember how they were put back to work by the WPA and CCC and finally got their mining unions backed up by some good labor laws. They're staunchly Democratic in this state, although even they are starting to wonder what the party wonks have been smoking.

I think his 42% figure was a very optimistic figure from Texas, not from Hispanics in general, and was taken from a poll in mid 2004.

Anyway, he's a fool, and I congratulate you for your comeback about Bush's daughters. I'm sure that penetrated the defenses.

[Cha]

7. That is off beat..reminds me

a wingding who scribbled on a politic strip that had my name on it and whom it was from.. that my friend left on my counter at work.

The strip had to do with .."Are we there yet?" ..with the Iraqi Invasion.

THis scrbbler paid no heed that it was private property..she black marked all over the bottom..something about that it was a metaphor for kids in the back and they needed a grownup to lead the way.

Of course, it was unsigned but we know who it was from..a chicken coward faux christian bleating bush loving delusional hag.

The delusional ones are everywhere..only they do seem to be in the minority..NOW.

[Journeyman]

8. Even at 42% it wouldn't put Hispanic much different . . .

from the general population.

I wonder, though, how many Hispanics -- and Blacks -- are going to Iraq, as a proportion of the overall force and in relation to their national demographics. As of December 3, only some 10% of the American casualties in Iraq were Hispanic (the same percentage as Black). Better than 74% were White. Do they make up a proportionate percentage of the military force, or as a group are they just better at staying alive?

[villager]

9. was thinking of the "Hispanic Panic" article in the Village Voice,

I guess, that mentioned heavy attempts to recruit in Hispanic communities...

[pocket]

10. what a nutcase

be careful around those types

[villager]

11. hmm... second comment to suggest that

physical danger never occurred to me, but then, if someone was so disassociated from themselves they could be eating at a "save the planet" style restaurant while espousing support for Bush, who knows?

[fighttheevilempire]

13. "42 you say? what about the other 58%?" nm

[Fescue4u]

15. It amazing how the opposition has such strong opinions

Don't they realize that only WE are entitled to strong opinions?

Gheesh, the nerve of those bastards.

[villager]

17. well, butting in uninvited, yes

Or do you leap into overheard rightwing chit-chats during your daily rounds?

[Fescue4u]

18. Oh sure all the time :)

Seriously butting in is rude, however I have two comments in that regard

Initially it sounded to me like a "public" conversation. One of those types where folks are talking and where its socially ok for another to add in a comment. An example would be two strangers at the DMV waiting in line talking about how slow the DMV is when a third adds a comment in.

Of course I take you at your word that it wasnt "public conversation", but imagine if the 3rd person said "Hey my people hate Bush to, because he is a warmonger and....". Would you have welcomed him to the conversation? I suspect you might and not even realized that he "butted" in.

I just get the impression that the offense was not such much the butting in, but the fact that he offered up an opposing viewpoint that you feel strongly about.

If Im wrong about the above, well that would not be the first or last time :), thats just my impression.


My second thought, is that more than on one occasion we've had folks post about how they got a chance to tell some idiots what they think about Bush in public, and really gave them a piece of their mind. This usually done to cheers and amen from the board. While its satisfying and I admit to enjoying reading them myself occasionally, its just as rude as what this guy did to you really.


Please take my comments lightly. All IM really saying is that we should be civil to each other, even if the other person is dead wrong.

peace

[villager]

20. it was a quasi-public conversation

and you have a point, in that regard -- but why the defensiveness on his part? I don't think I would've felt similarly obliged to jump in between two loudly conversing conservatives. (Unless, you know, it was at the Thanksgiving table...)

But you're off on the second point: I didn't do anything rude -- he was the one throwing statistics at me to try and prove how "supported" Bush was. I just rebutted him. Didn't call him a name, or nothin', then nodded "good bye" and headed out the door...

[DistressedAmerican]

16. They Bought The Gay Marriage Angle.

Pisses me off. My many friends in Mexico call him the antichrist and their kin up here vote him in. Even they can not explain why their American buddies are supporting him.

[pinto]

19. Geez, imho, you could have talked with him, rather than at him.

His statement that "Hispanics do...42% support Bush" is inaccurate, you're statement that Bush is sending "most of the Latino youth off to fight his war" is inaccurate and the challenge "Bush's daughters certainly haven't volunteered", while true, is beside the point.

I'm apt to be reading you wrong, and if so, I apologize, but your last lines really seem patronizing -

"Where the fuck do these people get off "volunteering" their support for our "President?"

I'd never interject if I was in, say, a steakhouse, and two rightwingers were kvelling about how wonderful they thought the Damaged Dauphin was..."

That said, my point is - talking past people serves no purpose in politics, which is all about talking with people. Talking past people has become a staple of cable media...I really hope we can do better in government and the local empanada joint.

Thanks.

[villager]

21. they would've been patronizing had I said those lines to the guy

the point of DU, I think, is that I can say them here.

Talking past people? Well, if I had the time, maybe I could've pulled up a chair and shared his soup and rolls with him and explored his misplaced trust in Bush.

As it was, he chose to jump in and defend Bush baby. He came my direction, remember...

So, why should my behavior be the apologetic, backpedaling kind?

Thanks.

[pinto]

24. Just my two cents. You don't have to do anything.

[radwriter0555]

22. The military isn't any more "VOLUNTEER" than any other job... That's a

fluff statement that means nothing.

"Volunteer" would mean they don't get paid. They're not indentured, however... they're contracted employees and required by law to fulfill their contracts. Not what I would call volunteer at all, and they get a paycheck.

I fail to find the honor in being an employee of the US government.

[Cleita]

23. And you tought only redkneck freepers vote against their

own best interests. A lot of the fundies have been recruiting the Latino community with the family values BS. Evidently they are changing their politics too.