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Why is owning a small still illegal in America

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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:10 PM
Original message
Why is owning a small still illegal in America
I want to be able to produce Orange extract and Orange Liquer --I just discovered that even owning a still even just a small one-gallon reflux still is illegal in america, and to operate it risks the wrath of the BATF. I wasn't going to sell it and I wasn't even probably going to give it away other than in a drink, but the draconian laws of America prevent even that freedom---any answers?
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Taxation, control over distribution.
Remember, it's the "revenuers" who come and bust up your still.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. if you make it, they can't tax it
there's your answer.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Taxes...
Liquor is taxable. That is why southern moonshiners were always hiding from the "Revenue Men."
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mermaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Answer You Seek
One Word....TAXES

They wanna tax your booze, and they can't do that if you are making your own.
If you're making your own hooch, you aren't out buying it, and thus paying TAXES to Uncle Sam. Get it?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. You do not need a still to make limoncello or orange liquore, Italian
Style! Just make it up in a big crock or jar, and shove it in a closet for awhile--it is POWERFUL stuff--a thimbleful will do! Recipe here: http://www.italiancook.ca/liqours.htm#item3
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. I make homemade limoncello, but that's not quite the same thing...........
I BUY the vodka for it, and then flavor it myself. Nothing illegal there. When you ferment the liquor and then distill it, that's MANUFACTURE of hard liquor. There are quantity restrictions on home production of beer and wine (how the hell are they going to know if you exceed the limits??), but hard liqour is forbidden.

IMHO if you do it in the privacy of your own home for personal consumption on a small scale it shouldn't be anybody's business but your own. Who's to know, unless you are seen, or you blab??? LOL
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. If you do it in the privacy of your own home...
...and don't tell other people about it, most likely no one would ever know. However, if law enforcement ever did want to get you on something they could use this to search your house, or they could add it to the list of charges when busting you on something else. Not that you should do anything illegal just because the law is stupid and unlikely to be enforced, that is.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. As far as I know... you can produce for your own up to...
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 10:20 PM by Lost-in-FL
100 gallons per year, per adult, per household... you must not sell it but you can drink it...
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sorry--This seems to be wrong
According to the BATF site this is illegal
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Read here...
"In the United States, we have a piece of history sporting a weird splotch called Prohibition. For 13 years the manufacture, transportation or sale of alcoholic beverages was forbidden. Fortunately, Prohibition was repealed in 1933 and brewing once again prospers. For unknown reasons, however, homebrewing wasn't made federally legal until 1978."


Each state has its own law, you can read more here...
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/legal.html
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Laws are VERY different for spirits than Beer
From BATF:

http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/genalcohol.htm

Spirits
You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for nonbeverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive ATF's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oh... Thanks for the info...
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yeah, Even the BATF says
There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use.

I just think this is wrong---the cheapest tax stamp that can be bought is $500. This is nuts--- the regulations are bizzare some of them. I just want to run a wee little Christmas still, or as O'Reilley would call it a Holiday still. ---I would also like to be able to make maybe perfumes or Flavorings or for that matter I cant even distill dyes, because the way the law is written ANY distillation even for NON-beverage use is prohibited---

Land of the free huh?
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Correct!
A throwback to the 70s energy crisis.
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I think that's for beer or wine - not for distilled liquor
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Only one thing to do
Move to the Ozarks, buy a Dodge Charger and marry your cousin Daisy...

They'll never find you.
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I dont mind buying a reasonably priced tax stamp for it---
its the 3000 pages of other forms and and paperwork and hoops that the BATF seems to want you to jump through....
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Celibrate your freedom
Our greatest treasure from the founding fathers was built in ways to break the law.

Your home is your castle -- unless you have some weird friends or relatives that would turn you in, what's stopping you?

Do you really think the BATF is going to do a sweep of your neighborhood looking for a still in your garage?

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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Actually --Yes
The way the law is written is that anyone selling stills in the US must provide without warrant to the BATF, names and addresses of customers purchasing stills... I really wasn't wanting to make my own.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. Too bad
I have an old work buddy that made his own still. I had left when he was in the process of building it, so I never got to taste his creations.



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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Laws vary from state to state.....
But in some, as long as you pay a tax and get a permit, you can have a small still for personal consumption.

I know a guy who has a still to make ethanol for his car.
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. And doing that without a federal tax stamp
Is Illegal---this is a federal thing without even getting to the state mess
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. You can make your own beer and wine as long as you don't
sell it. I don't understand why you couldn't make spirits under the same rationale.

:shrug:
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. you would think that--but it's not so
See reply #12 for link
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. There's a guy in New Zealand
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 10:54 PM by GoneOffShore
who sells stills to Americans.
He ships them broken up and to separate addresses.
I found the link when I was doing a search about Calvados and how to make it.
And Looky here what you can buy at Wally World - http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=99999999...
A book on how to make corn whiskey.
Surprise, surprise!
If the link doesn't work google distilling equipment small scale
And check out this link http://www.brewhaus.com/Distillers-and-Parts.asp
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. yes--good site
there is a place in Denver that sells nice stainless stills, and if you are into things of beausty this link is to a place in portugal that sells the most beautiful copper stills, some as small as a half litre, Just don't use it in America
http://www.copper-alembic.com/homedistiller/1_2.html
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. taxes
same reason growing pot is illegal.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. Of course, you cut into the profits of the liquor industry. Why is pot
illegal? Cuts into the profits of the timber industry, pharmaceutical industry, textile industry, and on and on...We could save the world's trees, conserve water, use less polluting fertilizers and herbicides, etc., and eliminate many of the harmful drugs we use if we used God's gift to the world...marijuana...but, no...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. There is an e-book/web site called Possum Living by Dolly somebody
that tells how to make homemade hooch. You can freeze the stuff you have fermented to cancentrate the alcohol. She also covers homemade stills.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. one thing is that stills produce
straight achohol and the batch maybe be good or it may be bad. i think it`s more in keeping the deadly crap from killing people. of course the other thing is that the stills can blow the crap out of it`s surroundings. if you want to get straight achohol to mix with favors just by some everclear
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philarq Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. actually not true
But I'll let you go on believing it---
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. If the gov't can make us fear homemade hootch it's easier to police
As in all things if you don't make a big deal of it the gov't will never know.

I believe the scare stories of people using old car radiators and lead soldered copper tubings are the basis for some of the self-regulating bad hooch anxiety.






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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
31. Doesn't home brewed liquor
still KILL people?
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Used in combination with night driving it is DEADLY
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
33. Because amerikans, just don't feel good about themselves
if they can't tell everybody else how they should live. Most re :puke:s and many :kick: think they have it wired and you're too stupid to be trusted to make your own decisions.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
36. taxes, but there are people advocating relaxing the laws
Like what happened with beer and wine brewing. It's kind of in the underground stage right now, although some folks are getting around it. You can own and use a still just not to make alcohol for drinking. Check out these guys: http://www.homebrewheaven.com/
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