RE the Penn & Teller/PETA Video...

[Yollam]

I'm not sure why that was deleted, not work safe? So if this one must be deleted too, so be it. Someone please let me know is PETA is a Verboten topic...

Anyway, I had written a whole response to it, and I just hate to let this brilliance ;) go to waste.

I'm not a PETA supporter or a vegetarian, but their smarmy, in-your-face eating of tons of meat and wearing leather just to irk the vegans is tacky, rude, and just so... 1994.

I highly respect vegetarians and vegans, and just because I like to eat meat in moderation, I don't feel the urge to needle them about it. Most of them are responsible folks who for various reasons, every one of them valid, choose not to eat meat, and most do not support the actions of ALF or the fringes of PETA.

Also, Penn & Teller are deliberately deceptive when they try to imply that the first group of loons who want to shut down the dog pound are a part of PETA, which they are not. They are also dishonest in implying that PETA hypocritically opposes animal euthanasia while practicing it themselves. They do not attack or protest animal shelters or oppose humane euthanasia to my knowledge. That's another group.

Like I said, I wouldn't have anything to do with PETA. The ASPCA is a much better and more sensible group to support if you care about animals, IMO.

But I wouldn't put much stock in what Penn & Teller say, either. They have become a couple of mean, bitter, cynical (libertarian-leaning) right-wing hacks as their magic career has waned.

You'd think with all those piles of money, they wouldn't be so pissy all the time.

And if their show is all about uncovering bullshit, the right wing in this country has a huge stockpile waiting to be exposed. Too bad Penn & Teller never seem to have a problem with THAT kind of bullshit.

[medeak]

1. am saddened Penn and Teller thread was deleted

don't believe their careers have waned however. Video was taken from their Showtime series and they have their own showroom built for them in Vegas ala Celine Dion (seems to be a status thing in Vegas these days)

Just took in their show a week ago and believe me...there were political jabs made (not as fierce as George Carlin that I saw the next day that was so dark it was hard for this liberal to sit through it) (besides...both play jazz..and hire fantastic musicians which is heroic in my book as no one cares about live good musicianship anymore)

Have had experience with PETA. Agree with you. They released baby chukars that our local boy's home were raising. Baby birds released onto interstate and run over and those that made it across starved to death. Real smart people.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Libertarian-leaning rightwing hacks? Naahhhh....

They're completely libertarian, and have always been so. P&T support just about every plank of the libertarian party, from complete drug legalization to massive deregulation of industry. You just have to know that about them going into the show.

I think they've done great shows on bottled water, New Age quackery, and so on. I'll admit that the PETA show was a little unfair -- pointing to the furthest extreme and trying to argue that it's the norm.

[Yollam]

3. To me libertarians ARE right-wingers.

They are in favor of destroying the New Deal, so they may as well be nazis as far as I'm concerned. I hate libertarianism as much as, if not more than republicanism.

[SteppingRazor]

5. As far as social policy, thedre's a huge difference...

Economic policy, the two are one in the same.

On social policy, though, I actually agree with almost everything in te libertarian party's platform.

[Yollam]

8. Economic policy is much more important to me than social policy.

Whether or not kids get to eat will always be more important to me than whether gays can marry, etc.

Call me silly, but that's just how I am.

[SteppingRazor]

9. I'm not saying it's not more important...

in fact, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out where libertarians and conservatives differ, that's all.
Sheesh. Have a beer! :toast:

[Yollam]

11. At this time of the morning?

:P

[SteppingRazor]

12. Absolutely!

Breakfast beer is the best kind! :beer:

[medeak]

10. kids eating

is social policy to me rather than economic

[SnowGoose]

4. Too bad it was deleted - I didn't see it.

But for what it's worth, Yollam, I'd like to thank you for your thoughtful comments about respecting vegetarians even though you aren't one.

I've been a vegetarian for nearly 20 years, (I don't support PETA either, but that's a different discussion I guess).

Here's the point I wanted to make: in all these years, I've *never* asked someone else to justify their meat eating, but in that time many, many, people have implied that I need to give some explanation for why I'm a vegetarian, or tried to tell me why it's silly, or looked me up and down for a scrap of leather (like finding some small hypocrisy in my life invalidates my lifestyle - find me the person without a drop of contradiction in their life). It's funny how they feel like they have the right to crawl up my colon because of a choice I made for myself, and one that I don't proselytize about.

I've wondered for years why that is. Thanks for not being that way.

Edited for spelling

[medeak]

6. re vegetarians

here's a humorous story (I think anyway) When dating husband 30 years ago he was constantly debating my college roomate as she was vegetarian...and he was meat lover.

Now he's the vegetarian for health issues (cholesterol)and she eats meat as was getting a bit anemic (runs lab and can run blood tests at a whim)

[Yollam]

7. It's a defensive behavior.

Personally, I'm aware that every time I make a choice to eat meat, I'm consuming something that was once alive an probably suffered to be on my plate. I'm also aware that I could live and be healthier without it. But I like it, so from time to time I have it, but remembering the videos I've seen of slaughterhouses helps me keep it in moderation.

But the folks you are talking about want to keep the fantasy that meat is just another commodity in a package and nothing more. Vegetarians remind them of something in themselves that they are very uncomfortable with on some level, so they strike out rather than being honest with themselves.

Like a dog, cat, or a lion, I am an animal. Everything I eat was alive once, and that shouldn't be taken lightly.


My vegetarian friends have told me the same thing. That it gets so tiresome having to justify a dietary choice all the time.

Those of us who eat meat could do well to reduce our consumption, and try to pick meat from more humane sources (NO KFC!) We'll all be healthier if we do anyway.

Besides, tofu really is good!