Hillary backs 'ban' on flag-burning

[Loonman]

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/58283.htm

December 5, 2005 -- WASHINGTON — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has quietly signed on to a Republican measure that makes it illegal to desecrate the American flag — a move that will boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states.
Clinton is the sole co-sponsor of Utah Republican Sen. Bob Bennett's new legislation that outlaws flag-trashing without addressing the issue of a Constitutional amendment to ban it.

It's a delicate dance on a longtime hot-button issue that has major implications in a potential 2008 White House bid for Clinton as she tries to woo heartland voters and block new...

[leesa]

1. This woman disgusts me!

[cantstandbush]

26. Why isn't she spending her time trying pass legislation to help Katrina

and other victims? Damn the flag issue. I see too many flags displyed and painted on SUVs and other places to feel that burning one is anymore descerating than how flags are used otherwise.

[wtbymark]

2. Who cares n/t

[skipos]

9. Exactly. nt

[donco6]

3. It may boost cred in Red States, but . . .

. . . she's lost it in this voter.

[TahitiNut]

50. I doubt ANY RWer will vote for her ... surely not for this.

They have many GOPigs that take these positions ... and Hill is (1) a female, (2) a Dem, and (3) a Clenus-enabler.

If this is targeted to the 'muddled middle,' I don't think it'd make any change whatsoever.

What it does is put me in opposition to her. In my opinion, if the country is going to slide further into the fascist sewer then it might as well be laid at the feet of a proclaimed GOPig rather than a wannabe GOPig.

[depakid]

77. Her negatives are so high among even the "moderate" right

that she'd never even have a chance to change the minds of more than about in 500 voters.

Seems to me she's just like Bill- continually finding ways to pander to the right, even though it won't help her any more than it did her husband.

[rpannier]

4. If she isn't careful...

she'll never make it through the primaries. She'll find herself in the position joe lieberman did -- first one out.

[MemphisTiger]

8. This is just one of the factors that will keep her from

winning the primaries. She is a woman, which many voters still won't vote for the top job (yes it is the 21st century). And many people still have a poor opinion of her for being Bill's wife. I think it's crazy, but her policies drive me up the wall.

[rpannier]

10. Agree with you

I don't care that she's a woman and I liked Bill. But, her policies irritate me. I would have a very difficult time voting for her for Senate (if I was registered in New York State), much less for President.

[radio4progressives]

89. I'm beginning to wonder if she's going to be able to keep her Senate Seat

if she keeps heading up fascists actions like this one.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. Bad move

nobody likes to see the flag burning, (or at least I don't) but that's what makes us different. We can take it because we respect their right to express themselves, however distastefully.

[tabasco]

30. You're right. Flag-burning is pure political speech.

Exactly what the First Amendment is intended to protect.

Free speech means protecting speech we don't like.

If we only protect speech we agree with, it's not really free.

I don't like flag burning either but it is political speech.

Hillary is a pandering fool.

edit typo

[mtnsnake]

6. She's the co-sponser of the bill. What do you expect? NY Post is spinning

as always.

[long_green]

7. What are her negatives in the "red states?"

they are, almost certainly are, so high that nothing she does, nothing at all, will help her there.

[Deja Q]

13. *ding* ding* ding*!

We have a winner!

[Sequoia]

92. Remember, she doesn't bake cookies.

Now, for any Red mom (or Blue) baking cookies are what you do for your "family". Guess she never baked any Christmas cookies when Chelsa was growing up but handed her a package of "Mother's" cookies instead.

[Deja Q]

11. Tell her to go enlist herself.

[jsamuel]

12. She looks like she is trying to become one the most disliked senators by

both parties. Catering to Republicans while being a Democrat is not "moderate", but is called "politics" and everyone on both sides hates that.

[theHandpuppet]

14. Hillary: NY's version of Joe Lieberman

My only hope is that I'll see a Kucinich-McKinney third party ticket. I've had it!!!!

[mtnsnake]

54. Both have historically fought against any proposed flag burning amendment

to the constitution

[pdxmom]

15. I've tried to stay open-minded about the possibility of a

Hillary run for the Presidency, but I think I've come to the point that it's time for me to just say no. Too many people I know outright turn their noses up at the idea of her running, and those that I have heard support her are signing on for the sole reason that she's a woman.

I don't think she can win if she runs. And it's things like this that lead me to believe she won't have the base. If forced to choose between her and a Repub, I would consider that no choice.

[bluedeminredstate]

29. I'm with you.

I've defended her, tried to stomach the thought of what her candidacy might be like, and sent her money. This is it - I'm done. Does she really think a Hannity-Rush-O'Reilly zombie will hear this information and convert to a supporter?
This is so nakedly opportunistic and I find myself very, very disappointed with her. She has sold out.

:(

[waiting for hope]

16. I have just lost

any and all respect for her - It's been sliding a lot lately and now it's completely gone. Let's hope this is a talking point when the 2008 presidential hopefuls comes up for debate. I hope Bill has something to say about this. x(

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. OK, now I think she's goofin' on us

No one can be this utterly oblivious and craven to what she once claimed to espouse.

She's fucking with free speech here with this flag-burning bullshit. She really should know better. This nonsense won't go away - next, she'll be supporting prayer in schools.

Hey, Hillary! Have you noticed how much trouble plagues our country!?!? Do you think maybe the Katrina folks need some help? And you're doing your skank thing about fucking FLAG BURNING?

Bite me, Mrs. Clinton.

I so totally give the fuck up on this stone whore.

[katinmn]

18. Wow. She won over the 5 voters for whom this is THE big issue

of the day.

How petty she has become.

[salin]

19. gee, Hil, you are SO right - this really IS a major issue confronting

the nation; tons of money should be spent on hearings and time on the floor by lots of RW politicians and their enablers that could be spent on things like... raising public concern per the continued problems of hurricane relief. :eyes:

[Walt Starr]

20. Why should I care what a Republican thinks?

:shrug:

[AzDar]

21. Hillary is a 'red herring'...she's un-electable (woman;hated by many,

amongst other reasons). This is, IMHO, why she is being shoved down our throats....another loser.
Ban on flag-desecration, my arse.

[ComerPerro]

22. The first people we should arrest: All those damn Bushbots

who, after 9/11, went to Wal-Mart, bought a "made in China" American Flag, and hung it outside - and then left it there, in the wind, rain, mud, snow, etc...

I've seen so many flags hanging at night that never come down or inside. They are frayed, dirty, worn, and ragged. And it makes me sick.

That's the worst kind of desecration.

People who use the flag because being patriotic is "in"...

[TheFarseer]

23. Hillary, sweetie, no one on the RW is going to vote for you

keep this up and no one on the LW is going to vote for you. Not many people get to be Senators though. I think you should be proud of that and give up any further political ambition because it's not going to happen no matter what posturing you do.

[montana500]

69. you nailed it

"Hillary, sweetie, no one on the RW is going to vote for you"

[Canuckistanian]

24. *Groan*

This woman has the amazing ability to pick the wrong issues to talk about.

[Clark2008]

25. "a move that will boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states.

Erm... no it won't. Most swing voters down here think she's a "wild-eyed librul" and nothing she does will change that. Reich-wing radio has done a number on her for 16 years.

BTW, this is the only issue I disagree with Wes Clark on, although I think his wanting to ban flag burning has more to do with the fact that the significance of the flag was seared into him as a military person and less to do with cozying up to the Reich-wing. However, if I just disagree with the man on one issue, he's batting pretty highly.

[acmavm]

27. Video games and burning the flag. Yeah Hil, those are our biggest

problems.

[montana500]

70. lol

nm

[Dhalgren]

28. This strikes me as just a form of "red meat" for the RW base.

It is sort of like putting anti-gay propositions on the ballot in order to get out the brain-damaged vote. Why HC would endorse (much less co-sponsor) a bill meant only to rouse the idiot right is beyond me...

[ChickMagic]

31. Why doesn't she suggest a mandate

that makes flag makers use nonflammable material? :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. Now there's a thought!

:rofl:

[chelsea0011]

32. Does she understand that she should be solidifying the base, not

alienating it?

[KharmaTrain]

33. Lets Make It Simple...No One Who Voted For The IWR Can Be The Nominee

The corporate media constantly harps Democrats have "no strategy" about this war and love when Democrats bash Hillary or any other Democrats as it's a great diversion away from covering the Repugnican crooks and on-going corruption.

So let's make it easy on all involved...anyone who voted in favor of this invasion should be inelligible for running for the nomination in 2008. That says No to Hillary...as well as John Kerry and John Edwards. Let's go further...any Democrat that went on record that supported any military action but didn't have to put their vote where their mouth was...that would broaden that list a lot further. Do we really want this?

Looks like a bit of astroturfing against Hillary happening here this morning. Well, we all need a hobby...

[WinkyDink]

34. Is Hillary a Republican?

I will never vote for her.

[Bloodblister Bob]

35. Hillary is a power-hungry swine. n/t

[MadHound]

36. Let's see here, pro-war, anti First Amendment, pro corporate,

Tell me again exactly why this person is not only an early pick for the Presidential nod from the Democratic party, but why is she even in it to begin with? Are these the values that we as a party should be even tacitly endorsing? I think not. I hope that the former Green who switched to the Democratic party kicks her as out in '06.

Hillary is a former Goldwater Girl, and by her actions she demonstrates time and again that she hasn't strayed far from her ideological roots. This is a real stupid move on her part. No matter what she does, no matter what freedom she signs up to repress, the people in the red states that she is trying to impress will not, under any circumstances, vote for her. Meanwhile, she is eroding her progressive and Democratic support at a rapid rate. Not a winning strategy at all.

[Clark2008]

38. That she's a former Goldwater Girl doesn't bother me...

...people change.

However, her most recent votes DO bother me. Don't judge her on what she was when she was 17, judge her for what she does, presently, and, to be honest, I'd rather she be more like Goldwater than co-sponsor silly bills that will do nothing but make her a laughing stock on the left and will still never win her points on the right.

[MadHound]

43. The reason that I bring up the fact that she was a Goldwater Girl

Is to make the point of what the roots of her political ideology are. The vast majority of people are influenced to a large extent by the events and experiences of their first twenty five years on this planent. Their political ideology is formed the same way, though the names that label that ideology don't stay the same. Her upbringing as a Goldwater/Rockefeller Republican probably influenced her political thinking more than anything else in her life, and sadly, it is apparent that she is carrying that experience forward into her political life. That she has found a welcoming spot in the DLC wing of the Democratic party just goes to show you how far to the right this party has gone.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Is there any pandering to the rightwing that she won't indulge in?

First videos, now flag-burning?

:grr:

If she isn't trying to position herself for a presidential run by buying off the fundies...

I agree that she would make more of a favorable impression on me and other DUers if she led the charge in things like more money and open bidding for local contractors in the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast or in something else that met an actual need of the country.

[Lerkfish]

39. STOP THIS ILLEGAL WAR! oh, and gee, save us from flag-burning because

flag burning is such a big occurence which slaughters innocent children daily and maims our soldiers.

oh, you didn't mean banning flag burning with white phosphorus?

sheesh.

[Seansky]

41. did any dem learned anything from the kerry campaign?

[Redneck Socialist]

42. "...boost her credibility in the conservative "red" states."

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! :spray: :rofl:

Who writes this stuff? That's fucking hysterical!

[FVZA_Colonel]

67. I agree completely.

Nothing she does will ever boost her credibility with that voting bloc.

[Toots]

44. The difference between Consevatives and Liberals and she should learn this

Conservatives wrap themselves in the flag and burn the Constitution and Liberals wrap themselves in the Çonstitution and burn the flag.......

[Selatius]

45. I had many reservations with her. It's decided now: I will...

vote against her in the primary election. If she makes it to the general election, I'm going to sit out the election. We should not attack our own freedom on top of the one launched by GWB already. What was it that was said in Good Night And Good Luck? You cannot defend freedom abroad when you abandon it at home?

[Tesha]

47. Don't sit it out; vote Green

If Hillary is the Dem's choice, it is *ESSENTIAL* that a loud
message be sent that there's a vast left wing cohort of people
that aren't being served by the DLC-licking Dems. You can send
this message loudly by showing up and casting a vote for the
real progressives on the ballot.

Tesha

[Selatius]

48. What do you say to those who attack you for splintering the vote?

Ultimately, I've been a "little 'd'" Democrat because there are too many Democrats in the party who are simply rightwing, and I won't vote party line because they tell me to, but because our whole system is built on a two-party structure, I'm stuck here in the Democratic Party.

If I lived in Florida or any battleground state and voted Green, I'm going to get shit for splintering the vote and handing the election to another Republican. If I lived in a safe state and voted Green, I won't have that issue. Such is the nature of the Electoral College, which should be abolished with extreme prejudice.

[Tesha]

49. My point is to (eventually) elect Progressives.

> What do you say to those who attack you for splintering the vote?

My point is to (eventually) elect Progressives. But it's clear since
at least 1992 that this has *NOT* been the intention of most of the
big-D Democratic leadership and certainly *NOT* the DLC. Instead,
they've vomited up a series of awful candidates and told me, in
essence, to hold my noise and vote for their stinkers.

And I, like a dutifal Demicrat, have done so.

And they, seeing that I (we) go along with their crap, shift farther
and farther from little-d democratic ideals.

The time has come to stop this. And the only way it will happen is
when the fat cats with the cigars see that we will no longer hold
our noses and vote for any piece of crap that they slap a "D" on.
Hillary would certainly be the exmplar of that problem and I *WILL
NEVER* support her again, even though I did so (ina large way) in
the past.

Tesha

[Solon]

97. Weak argument...

We wouldn't be splintering the vote, she would be. It is not the voters job to vote for a candidate because it is what's best for a party or candidate. No, it is for the candidate to EARN votes, they should not get them on a silver platter just because they have a damned "D" after their name.

[Selatius]

106. Why don't you tell that to, oh, the other half of this website

The half that insists you shouldn't vote Green or any 3rd party. Tell that to Mr. Benchley and others who love to attack folks here who are either 3rd party or Democrats who have a penchant for voting 3rd party.

[Tesha]

46. How many ways can she prove she's not a little-d democrat? (NT)

[mtnsnake]

51. Once again, the Hillary haters totally missed her true objective

on this, which is to prevent the right wing radicals from ammending the Constitution with a flag burning amendment, something that would be far worse than the bill she's co-sponsering and what all you blood-thirsty Hillary lynchers are whining about now. What would you rather have....federal legislation that would outlaw flag desecration....or a Constitutional amendment which prohibits burning the American flag. She is trying to prevent an amendment to the Constitution on this for chrise sake!!

Go ahead, though. Jump on the Hillary mob-wagon and bludgeon her to death before you read between the lines. It's a lot easier and way more satisfying.

[Toots]

53. Amending the Constitution is not done by Congress alone

It takes two thirds of the states to ratify an Amendment to the Constitution. If we are a nation (of the people by the people and for the people) then what is wrong with letting the people decide? She is surrendering before the battle. Is that what you want?

[mtnsnake]

56. How is fighting any proposed flag burning amendment "surrendering"?

She's fought harder than most anyone when it comes to fighting any of those proposed flag-burning amendments to the Constitution. Yeah, that's surrendering...

[Toots]

59. She co-sponsored a Republican bill to ban Flag burning

What about that do you not get? Flag burning is an American Right. Freedom of Speech. You think Americans should give up their Constitutional Rights just because the Republicans want it that way. It makes no difference whether it is by Amendment or Law the fact would remain that Americans would be losing a right and Hillary supports that. I say let the Amendment process go forward. How many such amendment proposals have made it by the people? At this stage of the game I find no excuse to ever side with the Republicans on laws designed to take something away from Americans. It would be nice to add more rights instead of take them away.

[mtnsnake]

60. "Flag burning is an American Right. Freedom of Speech". Yes, that's why

she is doing this! Don't you see it? Back in June she vehemently spoke out against the proposed Constitutional amendment that would prohibit our freedoms. She's co-sponsering THIS other piece of legislation so that the Constitution does NOT get amended by the fascist Republicans, which would be far worse and which would take away the very freedoms you're talking about. Hillary is trying to preserve our freedoms, not take them away.

[Toots]

63. Oh I get it we need to destroy the village to save it..

:crazy:

[MrBenchley]

55. Worth noting

that one way the Republicans could rebound from their present meltdown would be to have a bunch of "Democrats" do something really stupid in public, like burn flags.

[tkmorris]

79. Please. Stop it.

A constitutional amendment is not going to happen, and was never going to happen. Ms. Clinton is not protecting anyone from such a thing, anymore than I am protecting your home from being invaded by bright orange intelligent insect-like creatures from Betelguese.

You support Clinton and that's fine. However it does not serve you well to kneejerk defend her actions without thinking clearly and objectively first.

This was a political move on her part. It is a pandering to the heartlands and the south to garner support. Nothing more, nothing less.

[mtnsnake]

108. It's pandering to the heartlands and the south? I'll bet southern DU'ers

and DU'ers from the heartlands appreciate that one, let alone all the northern, eastern, western, & shmestern folks who hold the flag in high esteem as well!

Did you ever stop to think just for a split second that MAYBE this lady BELIEVES that the flag shouldn't be desecrated? Is there something so obscene about sticking up for the American flag...or does it simply bother everyone because of WHO'S doing the sticking up?

[Beelzebud]

52. I've said this before:

If the Dems run her for president in 2008, I will simply not vote.

I think America deserves better than 2 families taking turns controlling it...

[KansDem]

57. Wonder when she starts giving the "anti-Bill" speeches

Isn't that the next stop on the Freeper Express?

[noonwitch]

58. Is the story in anything more reliable than the Post?

The Post is a tabloid.

[mtnsnake]

61. The Post fails to tell the reason WHY Hillary is doing this

which is because she's out to protect our freedom of speech by preventing something like this from becoming a Constitutional amendment. No one's fought harder than she has when it came to speaking out against that proposed flag-burning amendment to the Constitution. By sponsering the bill mentioned in this thread, it would help to eliminate the possibility of a Constitutional amendment getting passed...if this bill gets passed.

[High Plains]

64. So, she wants to protect our right to burn flags by making it a crime

to burn a flag?

Sorry, that doesn't sound too hot.

Looks like more triangulating to me.

[Duncan Grant]

78. Let's hope the political tide is favorable to GLBT people in '08.

I shudder to think what her strategy will be to neutralize anti-gay rhetoric during the campaign. Assuming of course, she's running...

[mzmolly]

62. So does Dennis Kucinich.

*ehem*

[Connie_Corleone]

72. Shhh.

This is the official "bash Hillary" thread of the day.

[mzmolly]

94. Darn, I forgot.

Oops.

[SaveElmer]

98. Be vewy vewy qwiet...thew hunting Hilawy....

Can't be disturbed by facts and stuff!!!

[Generator]

75. So ? and if so he's wrong TOO

I don't hold on to my cult of hero worshipping for anyone when they don't represent me. Why does anyone else? That is my question. They start acting like a Republican I don't pine for yesterday. I take what shit they are shoveling now.

[mzmolly]

96. My point is that we should consider the ENTIRE person and their record

not "pine for perfection" ~ I take the shit they are shoveling in and compare it to the shit they are soveling out, and if I'm left with a net shit deficit, I take that as a plus.

;)

[Zhade]

76. Evidence?

NT!

[Freddie Stubbs]

81. He actually voted to amend the Constitution to protect the flag

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll234.xml

A majority of Democrats in the House opposed it, but Kucinich supported it.

[mzmolly]

93. Sure

http://www.issues2000.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

* Voted YES on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)

* Voted YES on Constitutional amendment prohibiting Flag Desecration. (Jul 2001)

[eridani]

100. Voted NO in 2005

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2005-296

[mzmolly]

101. I didn't realize he flip flopped.

;)

[Zhade]

111. ...or, alternatively, changed his mind.

It's been known to happen.

[mzmolly]

114. I was joking.

;)

[Zhade]

116. Well, you'll notice I didn't snarl at your comment.

Just pointing out that he changed his mind - which is good, because he was wrong on this issue.

[mzmolly]

117. And I didn't snarl at yours...

The point being?

[eridani]

99. He used to.

Last time he voted against it. Previously, he was humoring his institutionalized brother (NOT a very good way to make public policy at all).

[mzmolly]

102. He seemed quite passionate about his position at one time.

Glad he reconsidered. Perhaps HC will also.

[fujiyama]

109. Hillary seems to have switched on this issue herselfd

Didn't she vote against amending the constitution to ban this earlier?

That said, I find her one of the most pathetic, spineless, pandering politicians in our party. She will not get elected, regardless of all this crap.

And Kucinich and Clark have been wrong about this issue but they have the sense not to be wrong on so much. Hillary hasn't the slightest clue how much many are struggling to get by - millions without healthcare, jobs, a war with no end...

And she's worried about pixelated violence and burning of cloth.

Too bad, burning people doesn't bother her this much.

[mzmolly]

115. "Too bad, burning people doesn't bother her this much."

Good point.

[Marr]

65. LOL- does she really think she can appeal to red states?

She's in La-La Land. In fact, I can't think of a single person who have a harder time getting support in red states. Not one.

[FVZA_Colonel]

66. Didn't the Supreme Court declare a Texas law that did the same thing

unconstitutional back in the late 80's?

[montana500]

68. she can sell out all she wants...

she will be lose handily to any GOP candidate.

[Connie_Corleone]

71. The New York Post says that she's doing this to boost her

credibility in the red states, and most of you believe it?

I have to hand it to the NY Post. They're good.

[Generator]

73. I've met evil and it is the utter banal wishy washy middle of the road

centrist, stand for nothing in the end Hillary Rodham Clinton. NEVER. EVER. Ugh she is making me regret being a Democrat. That's how BAD she is folks. But I will never support this woman. I'm ill. I don't want her vision of compromise. I don't want her vision of the world. She is not helping. She's an enabler. Christ, she enabled Bill Clinton to be a so-so President when he could have been a great one. She's an enabler. Say NO to enablers. She's not my type of Democrat. She's not my type of woman. She's quasi-feminist. Quasi-Dem. Quasi-everything. This is worse than the IWR. Why? Because this is pure principal. Pure you either GET IT or you don't. Free speech-not negotiable. This is the essence of understanding free speech. She's an APPEASER. UGH.

[The Whiskey Priest]

74. Can Hilary do anything else to PO the left wing of the party.......

She is trying her best to lead us to defeat once more.

[WindRavenX]

80. goddammit Hillary

She's losing me. I used to love her.

[Tactical Progressive]

82. I'm guessing that by outlawing flag-burning

another phony, shallow, right-wing pretense to patriotism, that this will go before the Supreme Court to get shot down hard and permanently.

This is one of those anger-inducing diversions that the mindless right likes to trot out every two years to prove to themselves that they are patriots instead of the America-hating traitors that they really are. It's like clockwork, and now that their phony war for 'freedom' has been uncovered to be the sham that it always was, they need some tiny foothold, no matter how counter to basic American principles it may be, to bolster their delusional sense of superior patriotism.

I'd like to see this get passed, though I doubt it will, so that it could go before the court as a federal law with no other possible reasonable outcome than to get shot down as un-Constitional, thereby making the entire, ever-recycling political ploy moot for good.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the Democratic plan. Get it decided and off the map.

[flaminbats]

83. these nuts will ban flag burning, but soaking a flag in the rain is fine!

Never mind that Home Depot or Walmart will leave the American flag up at night rotting away in the rain. Who cares if our flag becomes just another ripped up and soaked rag hanging on a pole until trashed? Waving the flag in any form is patriotic, and trashing a shredded flag is respectful. But burning the flag, even if you own it, should now be a crime! :crazy:

How long will it be before they use 9/11 to trash the 2nd Amendment?

[NuttyFluffers]

113. and standard protocol for a used up flag is burning.

considered an honorable way to dispose of the flag. never let the colors run, never let it touch the ground, be exposed in bad weather, be buried, be sun bleached to nothing, etc. before disgracing the flag like that you are supposed to burn it and then properly bury the ashes.

this bit of legal stupidity now will try to mandate the millions in america *to desecrate* the flag. our poor flag will have to endure a painful, depressing, dishonorable decay in some landfill now... it's like a kick in the teeth and americans should be pissed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

84. That does it! She's officially on my shit list!

:grr: WTF is that woman doing? WTF is she thinking???!!!!:grr:

[seito]

85. Gotta love those red herrings

Nothing like an emotional non-issue to get the voters all riled up. :eyes:

[AntiCoup2K4]

86. Why doesn't she just change her name to Hillary Robertson-Falwell?

It would be more compatible with the right wing horseshit she's spewing.

[AZBlue]

87. It's a very limited bill. Check your facts.

The Bennett-sponsored measure outlaws a protester intimidating any person by burning the flag, lighting someone else's flag, or desecrating the flag on federal property. What is wrong with these limitations?

Oh, and she didn't "quietly" do anything - she's announced her support herself.

[flaminbats]

91. isn't that already illegal?

one of these is called stalking, another is called vandalism, and the last on your list is called arson. We already have laws against this, so why do we need another?

[radio4progressives]

88. This is what I call a straight up Fascist move . Will New Yorkers Support

this action? my gawd, and I thought she would at least want to keep her Senate seat!

[DanCa]

90. It's a fine flag - direct your anger at the Bush Administration

Ragged Old Flag Lyrics
by Johnny Cash

I walked through a county courthouse square
On a park bench, an old man was sittin' there.
I said, "Your old court house is kinda run down,
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town".
I said, "Your old flag pole is leaned a little bit,
And that's a ragged old flag you got hangin' on it".
He said, "Have a seat", and I sat down,
"Is this the first time you've been to our little town"
I said, "I think it is"
He said "I don't like to brag, but we're kinda proud of
That Ragged Old Flag

"You see, we got a little hole in that flag there,
When Washington took it across the Delaware.
and It got powder burned the night Francis Scott Key sat watching it,
writing "Say Can You See"
It got a rip in New Orleans, with Packingham & Jackson
tugging at its seams.
and It almost fell at the Alamo
beside the Texas flag,
But she waved on though.
She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville,
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee and Beauregard and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on
That Ragged Old Flag

"On Flanders Field in World War I,
She got a big hole from a Bertha Gun,
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp, and low, a time or two,
She was in Korea, Vietnam, She went where she was sent
by her Uncle Sam.
She waved from our ships upon the briny foam
and now they've about quit wavin' back here at home
in her own good land here She's been abused,
She's been burned, dishonored, denied an' refused,
And the government for which she stands
Has been scandalized throughout out the land.
And she's getting thread bare, and she's wearin' thin,
But she's in good shape, for the shape she's in.
Cause she's been through the fire before
and i believe she can take a whole lot more.

"So we raise her up every morning
And we bring her down slow every night,
We don't let her touch the ground,
And we fold her up right.
On second thought
I *do* like to brag
Cause I'm mighty proud of
That Ragged Old Flag"

[iconoclastNYC]

95. Knocking out Hillary is the Progessives Most Important battle after 2006

I'll do everything I can to get out the story on Hillary. We can do better than Hillary Clinton.

We have to get people to see past her Celebrity and see her record and how she's waffling.

[LincolnMcGrath]

103. This surprises anyone?

Please!

[SmokingJacket]

104. The straw, methinks, that might have broken the camel's back

for me, anyway. This is an issue that really, really bugs me.

Well... I like her pretty well as my senator (she was better at the beginning than now, though) but I think I would go for Edwards, Clark, or Warner over her in the primary, now.

Sheesh!!!! I want a ballsy dem!! Where are they??

[the_real_38]

105. She will not get my vote now....

... under any circumstances.

Going anti-freedom for political purposes like this is just plain sleazy.

[dansolo]

107. Kucinich supported a Flag Burning Amendment

Which was one of the reasons that I could never support him. Hillary just disgusts me more and more every day. This is pandering of the worst sort.

[fujiyama]

110. Too bad

the burning of people in Iraq doesn't bother her as much as the burning of cloth and pixelated violence.

I'm so glad she's more concerned about a piece of cloth, rather than the values the cloth supposedly represents.

She's an idiot...With the way she's going, I wonder who she expects will vote for her.

[NuttyFluffers]

112. well, i've already washed my hands of her. so...

whatever, that's nice. don't care. she's not my representative nor currently running for any position to represent me. now if she tries to represent me i'll do all in my civil power to make sure that she never gets that chance.

until that day... gee, how sad, and yet unsurprising... *yawn*