Bogus Spam Harassment may Nuke BBV Activist List

[BevHarris]

- Those of you who are involved with black box activists know we do opt-in, because you e-mailed to opt in, right?

- You expect us to protect your privacy -- well, whether you do or don't, we INSIST on protecting your privacy.

- Therefore, if some idiot "opts in" and then immediately turns around and files a complaint with SpamCop, we should be allowed to know who this person is so we can excise them from our list, file a complaint for damages against them if we chose, and retain the rest of the list

Not necessarily. It seems that the ISP can decide not to tell us which opt-in lodged the complaint. That forces us to nuke the whole list.

Obviously, it would invade privacy to start turning over our whole list of activists any time someone lodges a bogus spam complaint.

Tiger Tech (read: do not recommend this ISP to ANYONE) did -- they declined to tell us who the opt-in was, and kicked us off the ISP to boot. (This was the .org site, before its current problem with the Diebold DMCA takedown).

Now we are awaiting word from the BlackBoxVoting.com site as to who lodged a complaint. The offending "excessive spam" they pointed to was the letter sent to 425 activists, who had asked us to sign them up and who asked to be put on our mailing list. We do not know if the ISP will tell us who it was, and we do not know if they will reinstate the site.

I have heard that MoveOn had similar attacks. I am sure they do not supply their entire list of activists to the ISP.

Obviously, those that do not want people to see the Black Box Voting chapters have learned that this is an effective way to disrupt an organization. And clearly, the idea that there are 425 people (make that 424 plus one asshole of a mole) who want to be involved in activism is something intolerable to someone.

Any ideas?

And now, after tossing this out, I am going back to writing, because they will NOT disrupt our book schedule again!


Bev

[htuttle]

1. It's been said, 'the internet interprets censorship as damage...'

'...and routes around it.'

Maybe open some new 'info-channels'.

One thing that comes to mind, is to find an old Usenet hand, and get them to set up a *moderated* Usenet group:
alt.blackbox.voting

or something like that. It's maybe not quite as nice as email (or maybe it is), but it's nearly impossible to shut down.

For the files, I know they've been 'out there' in P2P land for some time now. All of them.

[BevHarris]

2. This is not just about files. It is about disrupting activism

We should have a right to communicate privately with our own activist network. And by the way, I believe it is illegal to shut down a site for sending email to an opt-in list. We have been denied due process.

[htuttle]

5. I totally agree

But the *should* part is one issue, probably best resolved with a civil suit at some point. It's probably not outright illegal (as in 'criminal penalties') for an ISP to be arbitrary, capricious and unfair, but it may open civil liability on them if they violated their contract with you.

Getting information out there, and keeping lines of communication open is another.

I completely agree that what they are doing is *wrong*. I'm not sure it's *illegal*...However, now that I think about it, I wonder if RICO would be applicable, since Diebold is doing this in part to hide the flaws that would cut into their profits (and in part to help throw elections to the Republicans)?

I suggested Usenet as an alternative to not having any group communication at all.

[Occulus]

51. BEV

Usenet is a fantastic option for you. I seriously encourage you to look into it.

I'm sure you know about usenet, so I won't expound on what it is; I'll just leave it said that usenet is on thousands of ISPs- including mine- and it really is a great resource.

If you do choose to use usenet, though, keep in mind that the .alt heirarchy is huge. Many ISPs filter the .alt tree. Some don't offer it at all. My advice would be to find a tree on usenet that's available on nearly every ISP news server. It's been a while since I've used usenet for anything serious... but the BBV issue would certainly qualify as serious.

Usenet has the added benefit of being able to distribute files. If you add it to P2P apps, your website, and this message board... you really have an unstoppable combination. Usenet would also allow you to post BBV news and info regardless of your ISP situation.

It's worth a thought, at the very least.

[artr2]

18. I like this idea

As someone who uses Usenet ALOT , this would stop this problem one and for all and everybody that uses windows has a news group reader in outlook express.

[tlmorris]

3. This is a HOAX

Please visit www.spamcop.net and check out the hoax information. Spamcop does not have the authority to shut down an ISP, and apparently, someone is emailing potential spammers with the threat you received. You might want to ask your ISP to verify with the REAL spamcop to see if there really was a report.

[ret5hd]

4. It seems to me that it would be possible to...

1) set up a plain old free yahoo acct to email activists from
2) keep the original address as a "receive only" address, for ppl to opt-in, send info, etc.
3) yahoo acct gets shut down, get another
4) The ISP logs would show that there was NO outgoing mail
5) Live with this pain-in-the-ass setup till interested parties tired of the game.

Note:I have done zero research on this, so anyone: would it work?

[BevHarris]

15. Nope. I've been told that if the name of the web site appears anywhere

in the body of the e-mail, even if it is sent from an unrelated address (or even an unrelated company, like a PR firm) that they can shut you down.

[tlmorris]

19. I disagree

Not sure where you heard that from, Bev, but it's inaccurate. Only your ISP has the authority to shut your site down.

"SpamCop will shut down your web site
Although SpamCop does file complaints with ISPs, we do not make ultimatums, nor are we directly responsible for terminating anyone's website." - taken directly from SpamCop's hoax page.

I work for a company that sends thousands of emails weekly to opt-in members. We've been contacted by several spam services. We're still on many of their lists, even though we only send out emails to opted in members. Not only has our site never been taken down, we haven't even been approached by anything that even resembles a credible authority asking us to take it down.

Spamcop, and anti spam groups have ABSOLUTELY NO authority to shut down ANY site. There are no government agencies with that authority. Even internic and IETF can't do that.

[ret5hd]

22. Bev, please check your PM's (nt)

[BattyDem]

32. Are you serious??

That makes absolutely no sense! That means anyone can target an organization or a small business and completely destroy their net-based communications with one mass email and a spam complaint! :mad:

[BattyDem]

6. Someone suggested Usenet

Establishing your own newsgroup would be a good idea. Newsgroups never get shut down.

Also, a third-party email list service, like Yahoo, may be a good idea. The messages would not be coming from your email server, so your ISP can't shut you down and you can't be accused of spamming since no one gets mail from a Yahoo group without signing up for an account.

Here are links to a few email list services I'm familiar with. I'm sure there must be more out there. Good luck!

Yahoo Groups at http://groups.yahoo.com/
FreeLists at http://www.freelists.org/
Topica Exchange at http://www.topica.com/

[ret5hd]

7. Both these ideas are better than mine (nt)

[punpirate]

44. Newsgroups are also...

... scanned regularly by email bots.

What works pretty well is a supervised listserv, such as majordomo. I belong to several operating with that program. The procedure pretty much eliminates the argument that it's unsolicited. One goes to the site, provides an email address and the list one wants to join. Majordomo then sends out an email saying something to the effect of "Someone, possibly you, requested a subscription to this list. If you wish to join this list, simply reply to this email." It's pretty well foolproof if one needs evidence of a subscriber opting in, because the subscriber has to go to a site to apply, and then has to confirm by email.

Majordomo also has options for direct email to everyone message by message, or in daily digest form (which cuts down on the amount of mail in the inbox).

About the only problem encountered is with specific large providers (AO-Hell, being one) who occasionally see large volume from a single address and assume it's spam, and block those messages.

The program is clean enough and tight enough to run a few hundred mailing lists from a PC-based Linux server on a DSL connection.

Cheers.

[BattyDem]

47. You're right, but ...

there's an easy way around that: don't use your email address when posting to a newsgroup. There's no need to. If you post to a newsgroup, any responses will also be posted to the newsgroup - no one contacts you directly.

If you're using Outlook or Netscape as your default newsreader, I believe your email address is included automatically. However, using a dedicated newsreader solves that problem. XNews and FreeAgent are two very good free programs.

I know ... BBV doesn't want to make things so complicated. I just figured I'd post that info because many people make the mistake of using their browser/email program as their newsreader and that's how they get caught by the spambots. :)

[ParanoidPat]

8. You know that wonderful GABBV list that Eloriel set up?

Just one person per state and we could set up a very effective network of activists in EACH STATE to work the local issues. We could then have BBV.org subscribe to ALL of the separate lists to pass on information relevant to ALL activists in every state! Just about impossible to shut down. From there the main BBV site becomes the library and forum for discussing action items requiring a 'swarm'. :evilgrin:

WANTED: HIVEMASTERS

Start your free e-group today!
Go to Topica.com and register a site with your state initials followed by BBV (ie; GABBV for Georgia) then e-mail Bev or David!

[shirlden]

30. We have an Ohio list

I have a list with 38 Ohio Duers e-mail addresses. They have all given permission to be on this list. There are a few who have not opted in. Any Ohio Duer interested in this can PM me here.
I think it would be a great idea and an effective way of communicating if each state had a list. If the DU board ever goes down, we can stay in touch.

I will go over to your topica site and register Ohio.

:kick:

[ParanoidPat]

35. I'm on right now registering CABBV.....

.....I'm setting it up as a private list. (Not listed in the Topica directory) Anyone interested in joining can PM me for the address! :evilgrin:
That's 3 states down, 47 to go! :bounce:

[Brian Sweat]

9. Do you have multiple members from this ISP?

If so, send a letter to each one individually explaining to them exactly what is happening. Have them contact the ISP and complain. If the ISP does not change its policy, they should find another provider. If you list is opt-in, they should not hold you responsible.

[ParanoidPat]

10. It's BEV's ISP that shut them down.....

.....not the person that complained. :evilfrown:

[BevHarris]

16. I like that idea. n/t.

.

[alfredo]

11. BTW, slashdot.org is running another BBV article

I am wondering if the hacker learned about you from there?

See if he used the same handle there as he did during his attacks? Contact them and ask about that guy who took you down last week.

[lysergik]

12. On top of that..

I never got that email which was sent out to us opt-in people. Wonder if the volume of email made them flick the switch preemptively.

Man I hate stupid companies.

[nostamj]

13. i got the mail

FWIW

[lysergik]

14. Interesting n/t

[BevHarris]

17. Hmmm -- I sent you the email

I didn't send them out in a big volume and that didn't get the switch pulled.

Any other opt-ins that did not get the email?

[dmr]

46. I didn't

and I read each one that comes from you and Eloriel.

[harmonyguy]

50. Opted-in, but no email

Mind you, it was only yesterday, unless my prior opt-in sign-up(bbv.com/bbv.org) counted.
HG

[Occulus]

52. Can we still opt in?

Is it too late?

There's not much I can do in my non-BBV state (MI)... well, we do use optical scan, I think....

But I still want to be informed. :) Bev, when you get a chance, DU mail me for my email address, if I can still opt in.

[BevHarris]

58. We'll re-announce the BBV activism drive

Once we have things relocated.

[JohnGideon]

20. The Attacks Against Our Cause Cannot Deter Us

What has been happening with blackboxvoting.org/com; what happened in Georgia and elsewhere; should only stiffen our resolve. We must find ways to get around the attacks on our right to communicate with each other. Not only are we in jeopardy of losing our right to have our vote count, but now our right to speak out and organize is being taken from us.

I may be going overboard a little bit, but I don't think so. Our basic rights are under attack by a small group of people; whether they are backed by the industry or just a group of disgruntled 'hackers'. We cannot allow them to divide us. We cannot allow them to divert us. We cannot allow them to win.

If this battle is going to mean that we each dig a little and help pay for our own internet link, then we need to do that. If it means we have to do this fight on the phone; then that's what we have to do.

I am angry now. I am resolved to fight this battle to the end. I know this may sound silly to some people but that's the way I feel right now.

[althecat]

21. Scoop sends out 250,000 emails a week + we do not have any of these probs.

Scoop sends out 250,000 emails a week + we do not have any of these probs.

Just to put this in perspective.

What is happening to BBV has nothing to do with what Bev is doing and everything to do with organised harassment.

Basically ISPs can do just about whatever the like. Sure they can be sued but they know that there is very little precedent in this area and lawsuits cost money... therefore there is little risk.

Therefore if an ISP feels so inclined they can be a bunck of aholes -like tiger tech and now this other crowd.

That said this is not normal behaviour. The internet is swimming in spam. There are millions of email lists active, most of which do not have proper controls on them. Two stage signup processes to lists ought probably to be mandatory but they are not. From what I recall even yahoogroups allows the administrator to sign up 10 addresses a day without the recipients permission (though this may have changed).

If you think about it the rules that are being appled to BBV are 1) irrational and 2) impossible for the webmasters to comply with.

How can you stop someone else sending the address of your website out on a bogus list? Hell with email set up the way it is someone can not only do that but they can forge the headers on the email so it looks like it comes from you even if it doesn't.

And for this reason the spam police are not complete morons. Moreover the "no tolerance" policy allegedly being run by Bev's ISP is not only abnormal in the industry but it is downright stupid... if he were telling the truth about his policy he would very quickly have no clients.

While Spamcop et al can be harsh at times but by and large they tend to have kind of sensible policies which involve first contacting the offending sites mail administrator about the complaint and seeking to sort it out first.

If you can prove from your logs that you did not send the message they are usually extremely quick to resolve a spam report in your favour.

*****

Now for Bev. When I first met Bev it was because she sent me an email... I have little doubt that over the years she has sent a lot of email. Now to my knowledge up till now she has had no problems and there are more than a couple of reasons for this.

1. Bev's emails are interesting and are addressed to legitimate people.
2. Bev is invariably extremely polite in her emails.
&
3. Bev invariably offers the recipients the ability to opt off if they want.

In short Bev is a professional. She has been doing this for years and she has till now not found this problem.

******

Now coincident with the publication of a new batch of chapters, every time a coconut she is losing an ISP.... this is harassment, pure and simple.

[shance]

25. Hotmail did the same thing to me - on a smaller scale.

I have been sending out a political newsletter for over a year and a half and I have been sending it primarily via my hotmail account, probably to about 75 to 100 people is the largest bulk sending. I usually divide it up because I often send different articles to different people.

About 5 or 6 months ago, I was sending one of my newsletters and received this response from Hotmail (a pop-up) that I had already "sent out the maximum number of emails" in a 24 hour period. I was like, what? I had never seen this pop-up before.

The funny thing was I had not sent any out that day. It was in the morning. This happened a few times and I asked some friends about it, I think I posted something here, and someone mentioned something about their effort to curb spam. I also emailed Hotmail, but the response I received gave me little information and didnt really even address the issue.

I figured the motivation for limiting my emails might be due to a little biased censoring on Hotmails part, but that even sounded a bit far fetched to me, and of course I wrote it off to being just a new regulation at Hotmail.

SO I then paid Hotmail $20.00 or so to upgrade my email account.

This is interesting. It may be a new regulation, but this seems to make a lot more sense. Perhaps the "spam" issue is another attempt to censor activism on the net.

[laylah]

31. The same exact thing

happened to me with my hotmail account, a couple of months ago. Now, I don't do political newsletters as such; however, I do frequently collect links to important stories and sites (BBV, Buzz, DU, etc) and mail them off to many on my list. I couldn't figure out what was going on with the refusal to send, the basis being that I, too, had reached my limit. This was also in the morning before I had sent anything out. I never did figure that one out. :shrug:

Jenn

[BevHarris]

33. How politically sensitive was it?

And had you typed it up on the same computer you use to send it out?

[shance]

42. Interesting - glad to know it wasnt just me.

I send out articles that give an alternative view to mainstream media, or articles that are placed on something like page 27** of the papers.

[arcos]

45. I don't think it was censorship...

Hotmail is really fucked up... it happened to me a few months ago, and just as you, it was the first time in the day I was sending an email. And I didn't send much political stuff by Hotmail, I used my POP3 account.

Hotmail just sucks. That's the reason. :hi:

[Occulus]

53. heh

"Hotmail just sucks. That's the reason."

Which is why I only use my hotmail account for demo activation and such. My hotmail account... is my spam account.

That's all Hotmail is good for, IMO.

[shance]

57. Guess you have an "in" with them KG - or you didnt read our posts

Thats so interesting that all your so-called "demo" spam gets sent. What does that mean exactly - demo spam? Does that mean honest articles being sent? Whew - I sure hope that we havent gotten to the point of censoring honest articles!!!

Thats all your hotmail account is "good for"? I am so anxious to know which Hotmail account you are using. Again, what is so-called Demo spam anyway?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Junkdrawer]

23. I wonder if Tiger Tech hosts any conservative sites with Opt-In Emails...

'Nuff Said

[DEMActivist]

26. Uh, they have and DO host several DUers political websites

I found them through JCMach's campaign website in 2002.

I also know they are currently hosting AWD's political website.

I don't think you can go there. Not even close.

[BevHarris]

29. Therefore, AWD sends no emails?

And Tiger Tech called sending a PRESS RELEASE "spam"

Therefore no one -- no political candidate can send a press release?

Do NOT go to Tiger Tech or to Total Choice -- and tell all your friends.

[bitchkitty]

24. Do you use a double-opt-in script?

The kind where the person signing up gets an email that they have to click on in order to be added to the list?

Someone was spamming and referencing a Bush Body Count link, and my ISP contacted me, threatening to pull my site. I was able to straighten it out because I had the double-opt-in list, and also wrote an email to the spammer asking him to stop. Spamcop marked my URL as "innocent bystander", but that wasn't the end of it. I got about 100 enlarge-your-penis-buy-vicodin-online-get-rich-stuffing-envelope spams from the spammer with subject lines like "Like this spam, bitch?" or "Am I spamming now?". I don't think he appreciated me telling him that I did not need his help to promote my site.

Nowadays you really have to protect yourself. Sorry you're having this trouble, you don't deserve it.

[BevHarris]

28. Double opt-in does no good when they won't tell you who complained

We can prove it was an opt-in -- but not without handing over our entire list of activists. They won't allow us to prove it because they won't tell us who complained!

However -- I believe in a court of law they will be forced to give up the name. At that time, when we prove it was an opt-in, I believe they will be fully liable for damages -- restraint of trade, and tortious interference, as will the asshole who is opting in and then complaining.

Bev

[juajen]

27. Squashing dissent - how American

I'm sorry Bev. Give 'em hell!

[w4rma]

34. Send the ISP a link to your webpage that allows subscribers to unsubscribe

And tell your ISP to send that page to the guy who filed the complaint.

Then they don't have to tell you who the guy is and your ISP can't say your spamming them if they don't unsubscribe.

Nonetheless, IMHO, you should change ISPs. The guys running your ISP sound like they *want* to find a reason to shut you down.

As for Spamcop, they have an aggressive filter system that many service providers use. It is of course a good thing to stay off of Spamcop's filter list. And it seems obvious to me that you guys are doing a great job of fighting back and staying off that list. :)

[BattyDem]

36. What you really need ...

is someone with their own private server. They may not host the BBV.org site because of potential legal problems, but BBV.com and the mailing list shouldn't be a problem.

I know it's not that easy to find people with their own servers, especially since your site is politically oriented, but they are out there. I almost did it a couple of years ago because it's not that expensive and if you "rent" some space to other people, it actually pays for itself in a few months. (Health problems eventually prevented me from doing it.)

Anyway, there are over 33,000 DUers - so come on, guys ... someone out there must know a techie who has their own server. :)

[ParanoidPat]

37. The server is the easy part.....

.....paying for the bandwidth is the hard part. :evilfrown:
A friend and I started an Internet radio station a couple of years ago and the bandwidth was costing us $500 a month through Bay Area Internet Services. :(

[lysergik]

38. I've presented.

David with potential leads on service via email.

[BattyDem]

39. Ugh, that's a lot!

But I presume you were streaming audio content, right? That takes a lot of bandwidth. A standard web site shouldn't use that much. I created and maintained web sites in the past - a couple were very popular - and the bandwidth wasn't nearly that bad. I don't know what kind of bandwidth BBV.com needs, but I don't think it would run that high, especially if the PDF files of the book are hosted elsewhere.

Anyway, I'll keep brainstorming and I'll post any ideas I come up with. :-)

[Noordam]

40. A friend of mine has a JFK Research Site

And did not know his first ISP was out of Dallas Texas... Not good. He had all types of "funny" problems with his site. Once he saw the Dallas connection he changed ISPs and has had a couple years of good service.

The JFK area is not safe for people to be reseaching even today.

[tlcandie]

41. Going over to Topica now for FLBBV ...

PM me .. anyone in Florida who wants to opt-in!... :hi:

[ParanoidPat]

43. Cool! If any place needs it.....

.....Florida does! :bounce: :evilgrin:

Come on folks! That's 4 down, 46 to go! Don't get angry, get ACTIVE!

[Paulie]

48. Maybe it's time for an RSS Feed

More info here: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/w-rss.html

Basically it's a pull type news service feed, you make an update, and a RSS client gets the message. This way you can send out alerts faster, and not have to worry about this fake spam drama.

I use NetNewsWire on my Mac, there are lots of readers available.

I get Salon.com, BBC, SlashDot, and others on this.

Here's a free windows version, never tried it, but it should give you an idea: http://www.rssreader.com/

[Kelvin Mace]

49. Okay, here's the latest

I am arranging to move the site again. However, I am also taking several precautions to work around this type of problem in the future. I apologize for not sharing the specific tactics but we know who is reading the site.

I will be setting up a mailing list for the activists, through a separate facility.

Total Choice Hosting (how Orwellian) will not even answer my emails at this point.

David

[Occulus]

54. advice, David

Get creative. Use peer-to-peer, usenet, Archie, Gopher... any service you can think of. Make your information so ubiquitous that shutting one source down is a tap on the wrist for you.

I'll DU mail you with a question after this post.

Cheers!

[BevHarris]

56. Thanks, but I prefer the hold-them-accountable approach

This is harassment by a bogus complainer and bullying by an unresponsive ISP that has poor customer service.

The bogus complainer needs to be identified, in court if needed, and sued for damages, with a criminal complaint filed as well. Total Choice Hosting also needs to get a subpeona and a suit for damages.

David has a very good workaround that allows us to appear as normal as possible.

I absolutely disagree with having to dodge around while the asshole who opted in and then filed a bogus complaint gets off scott free and the ISP goes skipping down the road after handing out some very material damages. Make them accountable. And put it in the media. Then other ISPs will think twice before taking a similarly reckless action.

Bev

[BevHarris]

55. I take it since they wont respond, they still have our email locked down?

We need that e-mail, and they had better have saved every single e-mail that arrived.

Next time you e-mail them, tell them their name will appear in the book. That ought to inform at least 100,000 people that it is wise to avoid Total Choice Hosting. With so many good ISPs to choose from, why choose one that is unresponsive, refuses reasonable efforts to resolve problems, and capriciously shuts off e-mail?

By the way -- did you ever wonder what will happen, WHEN Total Choice Hosting is forced to reveal who complained by a subpeona, if that person proves to be involved with either a qui tam suit or Diebold? The liability will be interesting for both the bogus complainer and Total Choice Hosting -- because though they may have a rule that allows them to shut us down for spam, they have no rule that says they can shut us down for something that is NOT spam.

This is not just shutting down Black Box Voting during the midst of a book launch we've been planning for a year; it is shutting down 425 activists during a critical planning phase.

Who has motive for a bogus spam report? http://www.talion.com/bbv_chapter-9.pdf

Bev

[lysergik]

59. Best of luck,

If you need any assistance, you know how to get ahold of me.