Had Al Gore chosen someone other than Lieberman in '00...

[WI_DEM]

What do you think would have happened?

First some history of why Joe was selected. He was highly critical of Clinton for Monicagate, but he also voted against impeachment. Gore or Gore's advisors felt that he had to pick someone who was personally very clean on ethical grounds because they claimed that polls showed that the Clinton connection was hurting Gore with Independent voters.

From what I understand two other Senators were on Gore's short list:
Sen. John Kerry and Sen. John Edwards.

It seems to me that Edwards would have been a wiser selection, for one thing he was as squeaky clean as Joe Lieberman with a happy marriage and a good family man. However, the thing which ultimately hurt Edwards was the fact that he was only in his second year in the US Senate. Still, I think Gore with his experience should have rolled the dice and picked Edwards because he would have really added youth and sex appeal to the ticket along with strong family values without being as moralistic and superior as Lieberman often is.

[karlrschneider]

1. Without getting into flamebait territory, I'll just say I believe he cost

us a LOT of votes. :eyes:

[Skittles]

10. I agree with this assessment

Lieberman has the personality of a paper towel - very boring

[converted_democrat]

13. I agree with you completely.....n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

27. I agree.

Without Holy Joe on the Dem ticket the Puggies would have had to cheat a lot harder to get in.

[leftstreet]

2. Leiberman ran with Gore?

:)

I'd almost forgotten him.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. Edwards, really?

Wow. I'm only saying that because he was an even newer freshman Senator than he was in the '04 campaign where some were concerned about his lack of political experience.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. I Think Gore Would've Still Won n/t

[charlyvi]

6. Hahahaha! And the SCOTUS would have still given it to shrub. n/t

[WI_DEM]

8. unquestionably he won

and some people actually think that Lieberman helped in Florida. But were there enough Green voters (remember Nader got over three million votes in 2000) who might have swung to Gore if Lieberman hadn't been on the ticket? and made it much more difficult for Bush to steal the election?

[blm]

5. Kerry wasn't squeaky clean? What did he do?

he only investigated and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history....that's all.

[WI_DEM]

9. I didn't say he wasn't

He would have probably been a better choice too.

[firefox]

11. Right.

And pretty soon he is going to publish his book on "The CIA in 50 years of the Drug Trade" and "The 2000 Stolen Election" and "If It Does Not Have a Paper Trail It Is Not A Voting Machine".

[blm]

15. Kerry was the senator who uncovered the CIA drugrunning.

He was drawn and quartered for it by the press who had little to say when years later the CIA documents appeared that backed up Kerry's charges and Gary Webb's articles.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

7. He cost us the election. He has gone on to prove what an unworthy

running mate he was. He is a total embarassment and I wish he would just get it over with and switch his party affiliation.

[EFerrari]

14. Nope. DIRTY ELECTIONS cost us that election.

And until we abosorb this fact, we will lose.

[helderheid]

33. yep

[EFerrari]

36. Hey, looks like lately, we're more of a sponge than a mirror.

Thank you and high five. :)

[dogman]

12. It seemed they had identified Florida as the battleground.

I think the Lieberman pick was a strategy to get the Florida vote. It may have even worked. The strategy itself was bad considering Florida was in the hands of Jeb and Harris. I think that was the real failure in that election. They should have come up with a different strategy or been more prepared for Florida. I don't know where these strategies are devised but the same thing happened in '04. The media once again said that Ohio would determine the election and once again the Dem Party was unprepared for a republican controlled election. Lieberman is a tool and the distancing from Clinton was a mistake but as I say we were told by the media in advance that Florida would determine the winner.

[ThomWV]

16. Gore Would Have Won - No Question About It

Hell, he won with Liberman, he could certainly have won with someone else.

Leiberman is my least favorite Democrat in the Senate.

[applegrove]

17. Hello! FLORIDA! Joe won florida and then the pukes stole it!

What is with the new round of "I hate Joe" threads? Seems like it was only yesterday that we moved on the "I hate Joe" threads. And onto important things like Katrina, Iraq, Plame, & voting transparency.

Have I mentioned I think the neocons think if they can paint joe into a corner and get him to cross the floor he will bring a lot of the retired florida vote with him?

Have I mentioned that that is how Rove flipped Texas? By flipping a few Dem leaders and "elders" and the votes followed?

Have I mentioned that they cover our leaders. Whoever, whatever faction Joe leads, they covet it.

[liberalpragmatist]

18. Kerry might've flipped New Hampshire

He may not have played all that well in Florida though. But with New Hampshire, Florida wouldn't count so much. So even if Gore lost Florida, he's still win, 271-267 with New Hampshire.

[Selatius]

20. It was Nader that made New Hampshire go to Bush, no?

[NNadir]

24. All we really know about events around Nader is that Nader's a dick...

...and a Republican shill. Whether he cost us a convincing win, we'll never know. My own experience with Nadrites is that they're not particularly bright or insightful. These people are not critical thinkers. They may not have voted for Gore in Nader's absence but may have selected some similarly hopeless third or fourth party cretin other than Nader.

But we will never know what the effect of the particular fraud represented by Nader was on the whole Republican fraud at large. I would not be surprised to learn that Nader was paid by the Republicans - as Nader certainly has no demonstrable ethics whatsoever, but I really think that the whole thing was more just the blank stupidity and somnolence of the American people at large.

Speaking only for myself, I did not take things as seriously as I should have or could have. If I had known what was to come I would have sacrificed every waking moment for Gore - and so my country.

Personally I think that people who supported Nader are generally worse than stupid but some - Michael Moore for instance - are have been apparently nonetheless forgiven by the left.

Still we cannot change history. Although I will never forget the 2000 election and what America could have been had it gone the other way, what happened can never be undone. The destruction has been wrought, and wrought loudly, and possibly irreversibly. We must all do the best we can until the end.

[applegrove]

29. Nadir reminds us of important issues. That is his job. But he doesn't

have the makings of a party or a full policy platform and I could not believe he ran in 2004.

[NNadir]

32. Yes. He's been brilliant on Terrell Owens and NBA officiating.

Nader wouldn't know an important issue if it bit him in his Republican ass. In spite of his passionate concern for his fellow millionaire spoiled brat Owens, there is a fucking war on, a war that Nader apparently believes Gore would have started if seated.

His MSM billing is as a "consumer activist," (as opposed to "Fraudulent Republican Politician") which about the only thing ever said about Nader that approaches the truth.

He biggest schtick is about consumption. Years ago, consumption was known as a disease. It still should be thought of as a disease.

Consumption however is not an important issue for humanity except for the extent that gratuitous consumption can be stopped.

[applegrove]

34. He was the quickest person off the mark when it came to trade issues.

I don't agree with the whole "anti-trade" movement. But he was there at the start and hell if lots of the stuff they were worried about didn't come true.

Like I said - he has a certain area of expertise and he should have stayed out of politics. Look what we ended up with because of 2000!

[NNadir]

38. Oh yeah. I forgot trade is more important than global climate change.

The bright side of global climate change, another issue about which Nader demonstrated powerful stupidity - is that the wiping out of the human race will also destroy the World Trade Organization, the issue that Nader put above global climate change and the lives of tens of thousands of human beings.

Unfortunately it will also wipe out Nader's stock portfolio, but let's face it - Nader is a God and therefore doesn't need to be concerned with the matters of mortals.

Fucking Nader is a fucking incompetant fraud. Everywhere. In politics and out of politics. I can't believe that anyone has ever taken this cheap embezzling piece of shit seriously about anything.

[applegrove]

40. And then again - if the lives of people in Africa and all over are raised

in the next 50 years, and prices of goods come down, and the internet is hooked up to villages by satellite - and kids can learn algebra and calculus online - well - they may up doing what everybody else does when life gets just less desperate and people have more than just subsistance agriculture - but have skills they can get wages for know that their kids will be fed and healthy... they may start having 2.7 children, and then 1.7 like everyone else in the world does - who have choices.

This will not happen if neocons have their way. So we have to all get together - all of us. Me, you, and Nadir and get with the program. We have to fight for norms across the world for health care and labour laws that are decent.

Fossile fuels will be gone in 50 years. Coastal cities in 100. But in every nook and cranny in the world they will need people to fix solar panels and wind factories.

I hope!

[Patsy Stone]

19. 547 votes in Florida.

He/they won the popular vote. Running mate = non-factor.

[...of J.Temperance]

21. I would have chosen Senator John Edwards or Governor Roy Barnes

Senator Edwards WAS on Gore's shortlist if I remember, and he'd only been in the Senate for two years...this is how impressive Edwards is...and he was my choice for our top of the ticket in 2004 and he's my top choice for our top of the ticket in 2008...closely followed by Mark Warner and Wesley Clark.

I think Gore also should have chosen Governor Roy Barnes of Georgia, this was PRE-DIEBOLD taking over Georgia, Governor Barnes was hugely popular...and very possibly Gore/Barnes would have won Georgia.

[Johonny]

22. I think it was

a good pick background wise. It's not what Lieberman stood for that mattered in the end but how he ran. Lieberman simply sucked as a candidate. In a debate with Dick Cheney he failed in away to disagree with Dick Cheney on any issue! How do you bomb that badly on the most important hour of your life. The VP debate doesn’t matter anyway just doesn’t wash when Dick Cheney is that unlikable and many thought even before 2000 Bush would be his puppet. Heck wouldn’t pointing out that fact been a good debate starter? Or pointing out that it seems hard to believe Cheney would help restore ethics to the white house given the very unethical way he chose himself to be the VP candidate. In the end Lieberman really helped people think that there really was little difference between AL and George. It didn't have to be that way.

[MoonRiver]

23. Edwards would have been better.

We didn't need to rally the Jewish vote We already had most of it. But southerners and indys might have been dazzled by Edwards, while Holy Joe just put people to sleep. Hard to reflect in retrospect, but...

[ultraist]

35. I agree, Gore would have won more votes with Edwards as VP

But I doubt it would have turned out differently.

They cheated and stole that election and would have made certain that Bush had just enough votes to push him through no matter how many votes Gore actually won.

[Cleita]

25. Nothing because Gore won the election anyway and it would

have been stolen again because of the mess of the State of the Florida elections.

[seabeyond]

26. gore won. how can you say if.... he did n/t

[Dem Agog]

28. Gore would have won...

Gore would have won. Everytime Lieberman opens his mouth, he sounds as if he's belching his words. I find him almost as physically repulsive as W... I voted for Gore/Lieberman, but not happily. Lieberman's as bad as a Dem can get...

[ikojo]

30. I don't think the election would have unfolded

differently. Al Gore ran a poor campaign. He was too eager to distance himself from the best campaigner ever produced by American politics, Bill Clinton. Had the Al Gore we see today run in 2000 I think things would have been different. He would have energized people to get excited at the prospect of a Gore administration.

I really don't think people vote for the pres based upon the vp candidate. The vp candidate can help energize people to support the pres candidate but I don't think he/she does much other than that.

I think Al picked Joe LIEberman only because he's a DINO and he was of the mistaken notion that he would attract that ever elusive swing voter.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I don't think Lieberman mattered much. I think what happened to

Gore, was what happened to Kerry...He listened to the wrong people, and kept his head down when he should have been out there doing what he does so well. Speaking his mind.

[HardWorkingDem]

37. I agree with you.....but...

also believe that what happened to Gore in 2000 allowed him to become the person he is now.

But you're right. He let people control him too much and hid his passion, humor and humaneness.

[TahitiNut]

39. I would've rather seen Gore/Wellstone. Period.

:shrug: