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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:16 PM
Original message
I just tried to get Tamiflu from my doctor and was told no...
I was wondering if others have tried to obtain Tamiflu lately--and if you were successful.

A month ago--I got a prescription for a 5-day supply for myself. I followed up with my doctor to request Rxs for my husband and children.

My doctor said, "The CDC is now advising doctors not to issue prescriptions for Tamiflu." She then went on to tell me that there is no bird flu in America.

I told her that I respected her opinion, but that I wanted the drug on hand--and I felt strongly that I wanted it for our entire family.

She still refused.

Anyone else have any experience (good or bad) attempting to get Tamiflu?

I had no problem a few weeks ago--getting that 5-day dose. The doctor tried to talk me out of it, but she obliged after I told her my opinion.

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lostexpectation Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. gulable
you don't need it, cop yourself on
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. What does "cop yourself on" mean? n/t
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. It's a british expression
It the same as saying 'get real' or 'wake up'
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
54. Welcome to DU, lostexpectation! (nt)
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #28
92. Is it really?
I've lived in the UK for nearly 20 years and I've never once heard anyone use the expression "cop yourself on". Interesting.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Whereabouts in Britain?
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 06:44 PM by jannyk
I am British, born and raised in London, and it was a very common phrase. Maybe it was a London thing or perhaps it's fallen out of fashion since you arrived? I probably could teach you a few more words and phrases you haven't heard as my grandparents spoke pure 'cockney'.

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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #99
101. West Yorkshire
It's a phrase I've heard in Ireland, but never here.

I know what you mean about cockney. The first four years I lived in Britain, it was in London. My husband's best friend, born and raised in London (who used to say he got nosebleeds if he had to go up north), tried to teach me rhyming slang, but there's just so much of it I couldn't begin to retain it all. It really is an entire separate language.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Beautiful part of the country but
a whole 'nuther language up there. I personaly have never been further north than Bedford!

The really tricky part about rhyming slang, is that the 'rhyming' part isn't actually spoken. So it is totally incomprehensible to 'outsiders'.

Whistle and Flute is a suit (of clothing) but a cockney would only say 'I have to get me Whistle cleaned'. Apples and Pears are stairs, but again we'd say 'I'm up the Apples to bed'. Did you know it originally came about so that the 'Peelers' (original police force) would not understand what was going on?

My grandparents were actually a 'Pearly King and Queen'. When I was a kid I thought they were real royalty.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. A secretary in my office in London
had grandparents who were also a Pearly King and Queen, and she said exactly the same thing about thinking they were royalty when she was a little girl!

She also sometimes used the word "dustbins" when referring to children, and I actually figured out the meaning of that one on my own. It was the only time though.

I worked near Smithfields market, and listening to the people who worked there (who tended to drink in some of the same pubs at lunch as all the solicitors who also worked in the area) was quite an experience. Rhyming slang is so incomprehensible to people who don't know anything about it that British intelligence could've used it as code during WWII.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. Self delete. Wrong post. (nt)
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 02:29 PM by Kukesa
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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I actually agree with your doctor.
As you know, Tamiflu is an antiviral that is effective in reducing the severity and limiting the length of flu if started within 48h of the onset of symptoms.

If patients were allowed to fill prescriptions so as to "have it on hand", they may self-medicate in the absence of confirmed flu. Just as antibiotics should not be prescribed without confirming bacterial infection, tamiflu should not be prescribed without confirmed flu.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Unless you can do a flu test at home,
how would you know you have the flu? don't give me the "I feel really bad" there's all kinds of stuff out there that makes you feel bad. Most people call a cough and sore throat the "flu." Wrong. You don't need to have it on hand when you cant properly diagnose the illness.

Sorry, and flame away.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. H5N1 is a disease you cant miss (1918 flu too)
Your lungs fill up with fluid and you die. Not like normal flu. tamiflu must be taken withing 48 hours or it doesnt work. Therefore having it on hand is the most effective way to prevent the disease.

If you happen to survive, you are immune to it from then on. So that's the upside on the whole thing.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I know how it presents, but I also know how people
diagnose themselves, and tend to dramatize their illnesses. At the first sniffle "BIRD FLU!!!"
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #37
95. if your lungs are filling up with liquid
you need much more than drugs on hand, you need a doctor, you need the freakin EMERGENCY ROOM!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Agreed
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. at the risk of being flamed
I'll say that I got a homeopathic remedy to guard against flu from my MD. I know that some who frequent this board think homeopathy is quackery, but all I know is that homeopathy has always worked for me. If you have an open mind about these things, you might wish to try it.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I'd be interested in hearing it
what remedy?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. It's by Boiron
but I can't recall the exact name, except it begins with the letter "I". I'm at work, and the remedy is at home-don't know if I can get online at home tonight-usually can't-but I'll try to remember to write it down.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
87. Influenzium
Boiron makes it, and you can get it via doctors and probably health food stores.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. You take it and you start feeling better in 3-5 days? n/t
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
49. You can use it in different ways
I'm taking it to keep from getting the flu-one pellet under the tongue daily for four weeks, basically. I think if you already have flu symptoms, the dosage is different.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #49
68. One of the sore spots....
So we have people who may need it for the dread "bird flu" and you have your private little stockpile to keep yourself alive for the Twilight Zone to follow.

Nah, I'm not mad, really I'm pissed that our health care system is so crappy we even have to have these discussions.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
70. Bad, bad, bad boy...
:spank:

:)

Sid
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hallc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
73. hahaha
must be a damn miracle!
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Order it from Canada...
easy
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. I also agree with your doctor. Why would you want a drug for.....
a flu you don't have and one that is not in the US.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. My feeling is...
...if the virus does turn into a pandemic--that it will be almost impossible to obtain the drug.

So, I'd like to keep the drug on hand--just in case.

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lostexpectation Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. erm
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 01:31 PM by lostexpectation
to be crude, aids has been described as a pandemic in places.... do you keep aids drugs on hand no, you too believe the hype and should cop yourself on
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Aids is totally different...
Bird flu---if it mutates into a form that transmits human-->human is very easily transmittable.

AIDS is not easily transmittable--at all.

The flu virus is airborne, AIDS is not.

I'm not afraid of AIDS at all. I understand how it is transmitted, and I also understand a great deal about bird flu.

I've been reading about bird flu for about 18 months. I don't listen to the "hype"--as far as what the pResident has to say or other fear mongering tactics.

I read scientific and medical journals and I pay close attention to the latest research--and what the World Health Organization has to say.

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. no bird flu is NOT easily transmissable to humans
forgive me if i have some skepticism that you have been studying this disease for 18 mos. or even 18 minutes

have many people have you spoken to in the poultry industry?

even one person?

and you are telling your doctor what to do, not listening to good medical advice so i know how many medical people you've listened to instead of spoken to

opinions are like you-know-what, we've all got them

fact remains, your doctor is the medical professional, and you're not


she's right, & you're wrong, plain & simple

hysteria is not a health care policy & doctors should not bow to pressure from hysterics
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
94. Excuse me...she didn't say
bird flu is easily transmissible to humans. She said, "if it mutates". Different situation entirely.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. simple, when it the Bird Flu comes... Watch the panic!
Oh and its coming....


Rich folks and the elites have already hoarded it. Anyone who waits is a fool. (no offence) but get real!

ONLY ENOUGH TAMifLU IN USA FOR 2% of the POPULATION NOW.

TAKE ONE YEAR TO MAKE (HIGHLY COMPLICATED, RARE INGREDIENTS)

THEY ONLY MAKE 100 Million Doses PER YEAR!


6 BILLION PEOPLE....


you do the math!
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Hey, if you buy into the "scare" of bird flu...
half of us are going to be dead anyway, so whats the diff? A lot of this is self interest, basically, "By god I'm going to have it for me, who gives a shit about anyone else!" So go ahead, shop for a doc that will fill whatever you ask for, get some oxycontin while you're at it.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
57. oh for heaven's sake. don't buy into the terra terra terra hype!
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hallc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
75. So the people who actually NEED Tamiflu
won't get it because you yahoo's are stockpiling it?? Sounds like a real smart idea to me...
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iamtechus Donating Member (868 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Because, when the avian flu arrives
tamiflu will disappear quickly and you aren't rich enough or influential enough to be among the privileged few who will be saved.

The key ingredient in tamiflu is only found in chinese star anise. There are a number of anises but only the one grown in southern China will
work!


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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Overseas is the only way... and its real, real, real hard!!
I've tried. If you succeed please email me and tell me.

Here is one place to start.

http://www.antiaging-systems.com /

google it
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Can I ask you a question...
You mention that it's very hard to get Tamiflu now.

I had no problem getting Tamiflu three weeks ago.

Has something changed--which has now made it nearly impossible for average citizens to obtain prescriptions for Tamiflu?
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Its sold out in every overseas site I tried
Also not available at Druggists (from what my doctor told me) it has been hoarded by major corporations to save thier officers.

Roche SUSPENDED all shipments to the USA for this reason.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. This is why patents are a heatlh hazard.
Roche didn't even invent Tamiflu, they bought the rights from a small biotech company (who is now suing Roche for breach of contract because Roche let the drug languish and mishandled the manufacture).

I think Indian companies will do an end run arount the intellectual property laws and start making generic Tamiflu.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Roche
suspended shipments to canada and the us till Dec. So supplies in the country are running out.
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GrumpyGreg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It is hard to get now because people that got it"just in case" have
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 01:40 PM by GrumpyGreg
created a shortage.

Stockpiling medicine when not needed seems silly to me.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. I got mine online
but it was very, very expensive. This was before the media 'over exposure'.

We have an upcoming, month long trip to China and generally travel a lot, so it will be our 'safety blanket'. I'm not sure how effective it would be and don't expect to encount bird flu, but we take anti diahrrhea medicine with us each time and have never had that either.

Canada is not an option without a prescription. My husband was in Vancouver a few months ago and went to a doctor who did prescribe it for him, but would not give him extra for me. So I had to get mine online.

After China, it will go in my emergency 'earthquake' supplies kit with my emergency food, water etc. I will not ever use it for regular flu and will probably never use it at all.

I'm not panicked, In fact I give it no thought at all, I'm just prepared.

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. How much did you pay? So far I have found 190 dollars online
also 120 dollars online... Before that it was 60 dollars.


The local Walgreens has some for 90 dollars, I'm gonna see if my doc will spot me some.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Mine was $8 a pill - no 'scrip
They are about $10 a pill now - they keep emailing refill reminders. My husband paid $5 a pill plus $25 office visit in Canada.

I saw a lot of ads for $60 for a full course (10 pills), but they were Canadian pharmacies and required a 'scrip.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. I found another place
online with the price of 180. My husband is going to try his doctor for a script but I really would feel better with the whole family covered. Then I can place them in the safe and hope I never have to reach for them.

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. I have 20 people I would like to cover boy at 180 is nearly $4000!
I was choking when it cost only $60 for 10 pills
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Well I have 4 kids
and this crap might not even be the real thing to boot. Probably is..but then again, who really knows.

Again, if you NEED this stuff it will be too late.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. I'm thinking a 25% stockpile is the "prudent amount"
So like 5 (10 packs) for 20 people.


First of all a few are very strong and healthy like 18 y.o.s. The people who are gonna die should get it first. Like 80 y.o.s. Then the people with suppress immune systems, like smokers or the chronically sick. Then healthy adults, then healthy teenagers.


Also the 10- pill pack is a 10 day regimen. Maybe a partial course will save lives?

At 90 a pack $1000 will buy 10. at 180 $1000 will buy 5 packs. (The original price is like 60 dollars, boy somebody is making some profits.)
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. The 10 pill pack is a 5 day course
The normal dose is 2 pills a day. However, it seems to be only effective if the dose is doubled - so that means 20 pills per person.

Like the 'Spanish' flu of 1918, this one is taking out the young first (those 18-35). That was what was so weird about it, it took out those that normally shrug the flu off and the elderly and very young were not as hard hit.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #66
77. thanks for info, well that is important to know...
I'll get 2 packs then.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #60
98. I heard that those with compromised immune systems are more likely to live
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 11:15 AM by helderheid
on Science Fridays on NPR, they interviewed a scientist that said those with fully developed immune systems were more at risk because with a pandemic, the body is so overloaded that is actually overreacts. Those with compromised systems such as the very young and old were less likely to die because their systems don't overreact. :shrug:
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. I'm thinking a 25% stockpile is the "prudent amount"
So like 5 (10 packs) for 20 people.


First of all a few are very strong and healthy like 18 y.o.s. The people who are gonna die should get it first. Like 80 y.o.s. Then the people with suppress immune systems, like smokers or the chronically sick. Then healthy adults, then healthy teenagers.


Also the 10- pill pack is a 10 day regimen. Maybe a partial course will save lives?

At 90 a pack $1000 will buy 10. at 180 $1000 will buy 5 packs. (The original price is like 60 dollars, boy somebody is making some profits.)
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. My link has it at $145 now
they are sold out of the 20 and 30 packs (which I bought) and the liquid. Only the 10 packs remaining.

I'll be in BC for a month over xmas - I think I'll go see a doctor while I'm there, see if the situation has changed.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Got it about a month ago.
Part of my emergency kit.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:55 PM
Original message
how much?
prices are all over the place.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
89. Paid about $65.00
I could only get one 5 day, 10 tablet dose.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. how much?
prices are all over the place.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. So just you and your emergency kit...
hunkered down waiting for armegeddon...did you get some suture and lidocaine so you can take your own appendix out while you're at it?
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. I guess that was meant to be sarcasm
but, along with my MRE's, 50 gal of water, wind up radio, candles, space blankets etc - I do have lidocaine and a suture kit.

You would too, if you lived within 5 miles of both the Hayward and San Andreas faults and had experienced a 7.0 mag quake that shut off your power, water, gas for a week. It's called preparedness and it's smart not dumb!
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. Yes, I shoulda put a smilie there... n/t
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #67
90. Yea, I 've got an emergency kit. Some of us don't trust this
government to respond in an emergency and some of us have grandchildren.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
63. LOL. That's funny (and sarcastic, too) I like it. (nt)
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. You could
buy some curcumin 95% standardized with bioperine. Better than nothing and it has been shown to decrease TNFa and other inflammatory cytokines in lab studies...
There is a thread here that has people discussing where they got it overseas. I'd start from the last and work back. Have to be careful of counterfeit drugs though.
http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?p=188615#pos...
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Psychmd Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. I would say no as well
You don't get a prescription from your doctor just because you ask for it. Your doctor makes the decision when to prescribe a medication. I would say no to you as well if you walked into my office and asked me for any number of medications unless I thought it was necessary. And no I don't have a stockpile for my family. These antiviral medications are not a cure, they can only lessen the severity of the flu symptoms. Since the strain of the actual transmittable "Bird Flu" isn't even known yet, it is not known whether Tamiflu will even be effective. Your best bet is to wash your hands and do all the things you normally due to protect your family from the cold virus.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. if 1918 flu happens it will be too late...
Roche can only make 100 million doses in one year.

6 billion human beings means when it does hit, it will be rationed to only the elite and millions will be SOL.

Do you realise that H5N1 has a 50 % mortality rate? A massive reaction to the virus the body ends up killing the cells its trying to protect.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. If the bird flu happens
they will bust the patent and everyone will start manufacturing the drug. I don't know how much that will be, and how the distribution will go. As we saw with Katrina, even if they have the resources, they often can't distribute.

I would stock on food and water, same as you would for a hurricane or any other natural disaster. If bird flu hits, I intend to say home and keep my kids home as much as possible. Having adequate supplies on hand will facilitate that.

There are also some pretty effective natural anti-virals. Elderberry tincture, brand name Sambucol, has had some very good small scale trials that indicate that it is very effective in decreasing the severity and duration of flu symptoms.

http://www.supplementquality.com/efficacy/sambucol_flu....
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. good for your doctor!
i'm glad she followed good medical procedure, i would not have returned to that doctor if she had written a script on the say-so of a patient w. no medical degree

there is indeed no bird flu that can be transmitted to humans in the americas, further, tamiflu has already been shown to be ineffective against the v. rare bird flu strain that is causing all the hysteria in china

it's a relief that doctors are actually informing themselves instead of bowing to pressure from the ill-informed
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I agree.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. Only one strain showed
some resistance. When they doubled the dose the person survived.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. There is another
bigger issue here as well -- that of supply.

Currently, there is a very limited supply, and every script for stockpiling will reduce the amount available to people with the regular flu. If you still feel the need, ask after the end of this flu season and your more likely (but not gaurnteed) to get a script.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #33
91. If they sell out, they'll produce more faster.
I don't buy this don't stockpile shit. Many companies have stored enough to make sure their "key employees" will survive. I'm doing the same for my family.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm stocking up on some kimchee
From what I hear, it's even more effective than Tamiflu.

Plus... tasty!
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Yum
But It can be nasty too, homemade style and extra funky is a bit of a challenge.


Me I got chicken soup frozen.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. When can get TheraFlu here over the counter, but it's only
good for pidgeon and meadowlark flu.
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Marlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Masks & Gloves
It wouldn't hurt to stock up on those medical masks and
disposable gloves. In the event it does hit, at least if you need
to go out to get supplies you would have some protection, but
you can only use them once and then throw away. You see people in
other countries walking around with those masks all the time.

Even the above mentioned articles will be hard to come by in the
event of an epidemic & right now they are plentiful and no too
expensive.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Yeah, I agree. Those pidgeons poop all over everything.
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drmom Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm a doctor, and I would have told you the same thing...
...first, I have not seen or read any evidence (and I've been reading everything I can find) to support the allegations that this is going to be a pandemic.

...second, I don't trust people who (after all we've been through with * thus far) would now start to believe what the administration says...I don't trust those type of people to be able to know when to self-medicate.

Sorry.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. My husband
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 02:28 PM by Mojorabbit
is a doc and disagrees. He thinks there is a chance it might happen.
Have you watched Dr Osterholms briefing?


http://www.wilsoncenter.org/common/dsp_popup.cfm?media_... of Event (Windows Media Player)

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. The Head of the World Health Organization disagrees too...
He said it was a question of "when" not "if".



From the article:

When delegates from over 100 countries get together for three days, it is quite an event to see ALL of them agree on one subject. Unfortunately, what they all agreed on was that a human flu pandemic will come.

What nobody is sure about is when the human pandemic will start, how virulent the mutated virus will be and where it will start. Some believe we are less than a year away, others say it will take longer.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=...


just saying
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. again, call me when there are a million or billion dead Chinese
and I'll start to worry. UNLESS it's designed to wipe out Asians, like SARS....
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. LOL!
quite funny


:)
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. Technically, nearly everything is "when" not "if"
"Some believe we are less than a year away, others say it will take longer."

-----
No escaping asteroids
BBC - Whether an asteroid will hit the Earth is a question of when, not if.
Though it is an unlikely event, it will happen given enough time. We might be unlucky and it may occur next year, or we may have to wait a 100,000 years for a major impact.

(more)
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
88. The hysteria is driving me crazy
today on the news they were talking about closing grocery stores. Okay, so people will starve in the event of the flu? And that is better how??
It's not like I can go kill a cow or something for food but I guess the cat might start looking a little tasty.

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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
65. I've read the whole thread, and I think you are ahead of yourself.
It's not easily transmissable to humans, and chances are it won't be. If you are that worried about it, avoid birds and poultry.

If you are worried that it is going to be weaponized as a human-contagion-variant, then I can see that you would want to have the drug handy. However, defending against all manner of MIHOP incidents will drive you insane.

As it is, researchers seem to be leaning towards the "don't panic, human contagion variant ain't likely" school of thought.

The mere fact that you bought the stuff a month ago leads me to believe you oughta lay off the mainstream media for awhile.

This is not a major threat to anyone whose living doesn't depend on a market demand for poultry. I understand that this isn't particularly likely to change anytime soon.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. When was the last time you saw the whole world
mobilize against a health threat?
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. SARS. BSE. AIDS.
You asked.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. Nah
Edited on Tue Nov-15-05 03:59 PM by Mojorabbit
Sars was rumbling arounc China for 6 months before it hit hong kong and escaped.Nothing was taken seriously till it hit and it was thankfully easy to contain.
Aids is still a major problem and I sure don't see the dollars flooding into Africa in the amt needed. I don't see the WHO having special meetings and business having special meetings and mock disaster training drills being done to contain an outbreak of it.
Mad cow, only in the countries affected... mostly an export problem except England's needed response during it's outbreak. All those were after the fact reactions.

Nothing like the gearing up for this. Nope.

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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. Yeah, I think it is more because of the hype than the threat.
The WHO and businesses are as susceptible to media hype as any of us.
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SnowGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
72. Got the 'script. Decided not to fill it.
I got the prescription quite a while back (some have been bringing up the H5N1 for a looooong time).

But then, it got in the news and people started hoarding it "just in case". I knew then that any doses I bought would come directly from the now limited supply that elderly/sick/immunocompromised people would need - not hypothetically, but really - to fight off the regular flu that comes around every year.

I couldn't do that in good conscience.

I urge you to consider that reality as well before you lay in your "just in case" supplies. You'll be taking a medicine from someone who really does need it.

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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #72
81. exactly
You'll be taking a medicine from someone who really does need it.

That's all that matters. The venerable people will need Tamiflu for this year's current flu season, not if/when there's a Bird Flu in the U.S.
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hallc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
74. Good. You shouldn't have Tamiflu stocked
I get so pissed off by people on this board thinking they know anything about medicine. This is why doctors keep drugs away from you - because you will use it when it isn't needed or will stockpile it for your own selfish needs. What about the person who actually needs Tamiflu, but can't get it, because you and everyother yahoo stocks up on it? Hmmm?? Leave the medicine to the people who spent time in school to learn it.
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TheGunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
105. Hear! Hear!
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movie_girl99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
76. I got it last year for my daughter
she had the flu. Only on (independent) pharmacy in my area even had it and they marked the price up and it cost me over 100.00 and would not accept my insurance card.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
78. Your doc was correct to say no.
You don't need it - we don't know if it will even work or what the proper dosage/treatment period should be. There are just too many unknowns to hand it out to everyone who wants it.

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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
80. Your doctor was right in refusing.
The CDC and others have warned that people are trying to make personal stockpiles of the drug, and are endangering those that might really need it. Tamiflu is used for other flu illnesses, and while the avian flu may or may not come to fruition as a pandemic, there are plenty of other deadly flus that will make an appearance in the meantime. You're only taking the meds away from people who might actually need it to combat the effects of other flu infections. The health officials are concerned that a run on Tamiflu will leave them in short supply to treat the elderly, immune-damaged, and infants, when the KNOWN flu viruses hit.

Your doctor was right. You don't need the medicine.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. I'ts companies who are doing the major stockpiling
and governments. http://www.nbc10.com/health/5243712/detail.html
Like virgin airlines Mr Branson getting 10,000 doses.,
The military is also stocking up.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
84. I have an immune deficiency
It's not AIDS or AIDS related.
I am also a nurse.
My granddaughter is chronically ill and both kids have asthma.
This is one I am NOT sweating.
IF bird flu hits, we have supplies to stay at home.
Wash your hands frequently with soap.
Avoid contact with your mucous membranes after contact with common surfaces.
Forego shaking hands.
I carry things a little further and have been soundly trounced on this board for saying how we keep illness out of our house, but after being outside in crowds of people, we change clothes and wash hands before getting comfortable in our home.
We don't wear our shoes through the house.
I clean with a Clorox solution.
We use anti-bacterial soap.
The best medicine in the world didn't keep me healthier than doing those things.
One of the most important things is staying home when you are sick.
There is nothing I hate more than going out in public and having people with obvious cold and flu symptoms handling my money or my groceries.
When that happens, I will always tell the manager.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #84
93. Sounds like good advice.
I particularly agree with you about obviously sick people dealing with the public. People go to work who shouldn't be there, but they're afraid of losing their jobs if they call in sick.
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #84
104. are the managers generally sympathetic when you tell them?
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Saphire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
85. apparently all you need is some sauerkraut.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Und ein groes Bier bitte!
:beer: :D

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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
96. Deaths linked to tamiflu in Japan
Japan's health ministry has warned the anti-flu drug Tamiflu can induce strange behaviour leading to accidental death following the deaths of two teenagers who took the medicine, news reports said.
One 17-year-old Japanese high school student jumped in front of a truck in February 2004 shortly after taking the medicine, while another younger school student is believed to have fallen from the ninth floor of his apartment building this February, the Mainichi newspaper and Kyodo News agency reported.
The drug's Japanese distributor, Chugai Pharmaceutical, issued a report to the health ministry after the first incident saying a link between taking the drug and the odd behaviour that led to the death cannot be ruled out, the Mainichi said.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Japan-warns-of-Tamiflu...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
97. Here's the real Tamiflu quandary:
Let's say that everybody in the US has their 5-day supply of Tamiflu on hand, and that the regular flu or a cold virus is going around........the worrywarts that get sneezed on by somebody are going to panic and take their Tamiflu and then it will be GONE, and they weren't even exposed to H5N1. Then a few weeks later, they actually get exposed to H5N1.......oops, no more Tamiflu on hand, and none available due to the worsening pandemic. It will be the same as if we never had the darned stuff in the first place.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
100. Sauerkraut
That's the ticket! I've got mine. Do you have yours? Although, since the study came from South Korea, I'm wondering if it was really kimchee that cured the avian flu.
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