My experience with white phosphorus

[Freedomfried]

If anyone's ever seen a WP grenade, it looks like an oversize pineapple grenade made out of shiny green plastic.
Years ago, we set one of these things off during training on San Clemente island.
I happened to be somewhat on the downwind side.
A pop, than a huge plume of bright white smoke drifted off to my left side, I was laying face down in a rut as it passed by.
Right as I was starting to stand up, I felt a stinging on my right ass cheek, I didn't know it at the time, but a dime size fragment of the chemical had landed on the back right-hand pocket flap of my BDU's and was burning its way into my butt cheek.
I jumped up and started dancing like a man possessed, pulling off my gear and ripping my trousers off, the sensation was like somebody pushing a red-hot screwdriver into the muscle. And didn't stop, it was hurting more and more.
We had a good corpsman that day, he ran over to where I was and pretty much knocked me down, and fished the small chunk out of my ass with the tip of his K-Bar.
It took months to heal, eating antibiotics and packing the hole with Silverdine ointment everyday. The muscle tissue really never recovered, still got a huge red scar over a sucked-in area where the burn was.
And this was just a tiny piece from a hand deployed device, the idea that WP would be used as a weapon, in the quantities carried by an artillery round or a bomb is insane.

I'd call it criminal.

[Freedomfried]

1. ...just my .02

[AX10]

2. KICK for everyone to read.

[CountAllVotes]

3. kick!

Thank you for sharing your personal experience with this dangerous chemical being used as a weapon against human beings.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[vanboggie]

4. Recommended

A first hand story like yours needs to be seen by many. That the us govt. is using that stuff over there is appalling. War criminals for sure.

[Angry Girl]

9. ditto - kick - recommend

[kikiek]

5. What the hell ! World tribunals for the entire administration for war

crimes. Nothing less and anything worse.

[pitohui]

6. what's a k-bar?

jesus, it sounds like an awful experience

i agree, criminal criminal criminal

[jim3775]

12. Googled

[pitohui]

24. oh my effing god

i hope this is not a true story but i have a sick feeling that it is

what an awful experience

words fail me

[EuroObserver]

54. Isn't that a modified Bowie knife? n/t

[Union Thug]

7. Thank you for this. Yesterday, someone tried to equate WP as little more

..than a 'high explosive'. It's more like cocaine-napalm and should be treated as such.

[ArkDem]

68. Cocaine-napalm.....?

[Cleita]

8. We need to write all our elected officials and beg them

to make this substance illegal for any kind of use even in the military. Who the hell is the manufacturer? We need to expose who they are.

[Swamp Rat]

36. I agree, and the manufacturer should be brought up on charges for

creating such an EVIL thing! :grr:

[EuroObserver]

56. Shaw Environmental, Teledyne Brown... For Two. Googled this:

(Actually, Google went dead on me. So I AltaVista'd this - http://www.altavista.com/ x( )

http://www.themanufacturer.com/us/content/3816/Teledyne_nets_$10_million_subcontract

<snip>

Teledyne nets $10 million subcontract
Manufacturing News, Source : TheManufacturer.com
Published : 26 Oct 2005 18:52

Teledyne Brown Engineering, Inc., under contract to Shaw Environmental, Inc., has been awarded an 18-month $10 million contract to support modernization of the White Phosphorus Plant at the Pine Bluff Arsenal in Pine Bluff, AR.

Under the contract, Teledyne Brown Engineering will design, procure, fabricate, assemble, integrate, test, and deliver new white phosphorus processing components and subsystems at the Pine Bluff Arsenal. This facility is the only white phosphorus plant in the United States. White phosphorus is a chemical used to fill munitions and projectiles for signaling, screening, and incendiary purposes.

"This is a natural next step for Teledyne Brown which has developed a reputation for excellence in chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear businesses," said Robert Mehrabian, chairman, president and chief executive officer of Teledyne Technologies. "Teledyne Brown's environmental systems group has demonstrated continued growth as well as diversification. We have experienced significant success on numerous projects at Pine Bluff Arsenal from destroying chemical agents to operating mobile systems and look forward to continuing our outstanding service to the Arsenal."

Teledyne Brown's work will be concentrated in the munitions fill station system, degreaser booth system, paint booth system, pick and place devices as well as piping, instrumentation, electrical and controls. The company will also provide installation support, system test and training support as part of the project. The munitions fill station system, will be assembled, integrated, and tested at the Huntsville manufacturing facility before delivery to Pine Bluff Arsenal.

<snip>

See also: National Safety Council http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/phsphor.htm

<snip>

White phosphorus is used mainly for producing phosphoric acid and other chemicals such as phosphorus trichloride, calcium metaphosphate, phosphorus pentasulfide, phosphorus pentoxide, and red phosphorus. It is also used to make fertilizers, additives in foods and beverages, cleaning compounds, and other products. Small amounts of white phosphorus had been used as rat and roach poisons, and in fireworks, but are no longer used for this. In the past, white phosphorus was used to make matches, but another chemical with fewer harmful health effects has replaced it.

In the military, white phosphorus is used in ammunition such as mortar, artillery shells, and grenades. When ammunitions containing white phosphorus are fired in the field, they burn and produce smoke which contains both unburned phosphorus and burned phosphorus products. In military operations, this smoke screen is used to protect potential targets and to conceal movement of personnel and material.

...

White phosphorus is a poison which can be absorbed through skin contact, ingestion, or breathing. If its combustion occurs in a confined space, white phosphorus will remove the oxygen from the air and render the air unfit to support life. Long-term absorption, particularly through the lungs and the gastrointestinal tract, can cause chronic poisoning, which leads to weakness, anemia, loss of appetite, gastrointestinal weakness, and pallor.

Eating or drinking less than one teaspoon of white phosphorus can cause vomiting; stomach cramps; liver, heart or kidney damage; drowsiness; and even death. Being burned with white phosphorus can cause heart, liver, and kidney damage. Breathing white phosphorus may damage lungs and throat.

White phosphorus can cause changes in the long bones; seriously affected bones may become brittle, leading to spontaneous fractures. White phosphorus is especially hazardous to the eyes and can severely damage them.

High concentrations of the vapors evolved by burning white phosphorus are irritating to the nose, throat, lungs, skin, eyes, and mucus membranes.

Breathing white phosphorus can cause coughing and the development of a condition known as phossy jaw -- poor wound healing in the mouth and a breakdown of the jaw bone. The most common symptom of exposure to white phosphorus is necrosis of the jaw.

Exposure to white phosphorus can also cause nausea, jaundice, anemia, cachexia, dental pain, and excess saliva.
...

The facilities releasing the largest amounts of phosphorus in 1998 were FMC Corp., Pocatello, ID(2,272,700); Mueller Copper Tube Co., Fulton, MS (12,600); Townsend Farms Inc., Bonlee, NC (3,732); Townsend Farms Inc., Millsboro, DE (3,252); Olin Corp., East Alton, IL (3,200); Townsend Farm of AR Inc., Newark, AR (1,700); P4 Production L.L.C. (Monsanto/60% JV Owner) Soda Springs, ID (590); Occidental Chemical Corp., Columbia, TN (505); Metallurgical Prods. Co., West Chester, PA (500).

</snip>x(

[EuroObserver]

57. For the record:

Teledyne Brown Engineering: http://www.tbe.com/
"Headquartered in Huntsville, Alabama, with operations and offices throughout the United States and representation in several other countries, Teledyne Brown is a recognized leader in providing solutions in Space, Defense, Environmental, and Homeland Security programs."

Parent company Teledyne Technologies: http://www.teledyne.com/
(see their Form:10-K Year End January 2, 2005 here: http://www.investquest.com/iq/t/tdy/fin/10k/tdyk05.htm

Shaw Environmental would appear to refer to these people: Shaw Group Inc : http://www.shawgrp.com/
(see their Form:10-K Filing Date:11/2/2004 here: http://sec.edgar-online.com/2004/11/02/0000950124-04-005242/section2.asp

[EuroObserver]

59. More on Pine Bluff Arsenal

Pine Bluff Arsenal, Arkansas: http://www.pba.army.mil/

"COMMANDER'S VISION STATEMENT

Pine Bluff ... the preferred center for specialized products and services, responsive to national defense needs.

The Pine Bluff Arsenal Materiel Readiness Center provides specialized manufacturing, maintenance, storage and distribution of readiness products and delivers technical services to the war fighter and homeland defender, while focusing on quality and value when responding to national defense needs.

PBA's Primary Core Missions Include:

Conventional Ammunition

Chemical Biological Defense

Engineering and Technical Support

Mobile and Powered System Support

Base Operations Support to tenant activities"

************

GlobalSecurity.org file: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/facility/pine_bluff.htm

<snip>

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

Pine Bluff Chemical Activity (PBCA)
Pine Bluff, Arkansas

Pine Bluff Arsenal located in Southeast Arkansas, is 35 miles Southeast of Little Rock and 8 miles Northwest of the City of Pine Bluff. PBA is bordered on the East by the McClellan-Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System and on the West by the Union Pacific Railroad and U.S. Highway 65, making it directly accessible by rail, road, or waterway...

The facility was established in November 1941 as the Chemical Warfare Arsenal; it was renamed Pine Bluff Arsenal 4 months later. Its original mission was as a manufacturing center for magnesium and thermite munitions...

A biological weapons mission was added in 1953 and continued until 1969. Pine Bluff was the site of the Production Development Laboratories, responsible for manufacturing and loading biological munitions. President Nixon banned biological weapons in 1969 and manufacturing ceased. The bioweapons production facility at Pine Bluff was abandoned and partly dismantled in 1969. In 1972, this part of the complex was renamed the National Center for Toxicological Research, removed from the jurisdiction of the Arsenal and placed under the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

Currently, it manufactures chemical, smoke, riot control, incendiary, and pyrotechnic mixes and munitions. Limited production facilities also are used to manufacture chemical defense items such as clothing and protective masks. Pine Bluff is the only active site at which white phosphorous-filled weapons are loaded.

The Pine Bluff Chemical Activity maintains its stockpile on 431 acres of land is located in the northwestern portion of Pine Bluff Arsenal.

The Pine Bluff Chemical Activity’s specific mission is to store its stockpile of 3,850 tons of chemical weapons until they are disposed of through the Chemical Stockpile Disposal Program. The Pine Bluff Chemical Disposal Facility will use incineration technology to safely dispose of 12.3 percent of the original US stockpile of chemical weapons. In fact, the U.S. Army is awaiting approval from the Arkansas Department of Pollution Control and Ecology to build a chemical weapons disposal facility.

The Pine Bluff Chemical Activity has safely stored blister agent, or mustard nerve agents since the 1950s and 1960s when the weapons were brought to the Arsenal. The stockpile consists of rockets containing the liquid nerve agents GB and VX and one-ton bulk storage containers with mustard. The safe storage of the entire stockpile is overseen by the U.S. Army Chemical and Biological Defense Command, who is charged with monitoring the storage.

</snip>

Latest from Arkansas News Bureau: http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/10/05/WashingtonDCBureau/329246.html

<snip>

Pine Bluff Arsenal to expand partnerships
Wednesday, Oct 5, 2005

By Alison Vekshin
Stephens Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- The Pine Bluff Arsenal has been approved to expand its workload to include private companies and other government agencies beyond the Defense Department.

The arsenal's designation as the nation's sole Center of Industrial and Technical Excellence for Chemical and Biological Defense Equipment means an economic boost, said Larry Wright, the installation's civilian executive.

"It will help us reduce our operating cost for the arsenal, it expands our employment base here and reinforces our role as the only government-owned chemical and biological defense arsenal," Wright said.

Arsenal managers were notified in a Sept. 27 letter from Army Secretary Francis Harvey.

The designation will allow the arsenal to sell chemical and biological defense equipment that it manufactures, such as gas masks and protective clothing, to federal agencies and to private businesses, and to offer repair services for those products.

</snip>

[Joanne98]

62. Shaw is getting Katrina contracts. A quid-pro-quo?

[EuroObserver]

65. Well, looks like they're in the NCB cleanup business, originally,

(Nuclear-Chemical-Biological). But now they're expanding into production... At least, they get the contract at Pine Bluff WMD and then subcontract to the people (Teledyne) with the real know-how, taking their cut along the way, of course. Katrina would be a definite plus for them.

Notice the private companies moving into the WMD field there, btw.

Anyone reading this know where to look to find the names of the biggest shareholders in these outfits?

[EuroObserver]

66. So, one little question:

"This is a natural next step for Teledyne Brown which has developed a reputation for excellence in chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear businesses," said Robert Mehrabian, chairman, president and chief executive officer of Teledyne Technologies. "Teledyne Brown's environmental systems group has demonstrated continued growth as well as diversification. We have experienced significant success on numerous projects at Pine Bluff Arsenal from destroying chemical agents to operating mobile systems and look forward to continuing our outstanding service to the Arsenal."

So why didn't they get the contract straight. Why the Shaw Group intermediary?

[Cobalt Violet]

10. Kicked

[KT2000]

11. OMG - this is horrible

people do need to hear this. Do you think your local paper would print a letter on the subject?

[datadiva]

13. Kick

and recommended. What this administration has done is a crime against humanity. Hell, they are a crime against humanity.

[FogerRox]

14. kicked and recommended

UR lucky to be alive, glad to have ya around

[Occulus]

15. ALL the jerks defending this shit on That Other Thread need to read this

No, I WON'T provide a link. Their sheer coldness does not deserve a second review.

This is some sick, sick, sick, sick shit and I don't CARE that it's "used for illumination".

IT SHOULD NOT BE USED- PERIOD. For ANY purpose.

[Freedomfried]

20. WP is made for and works well as a "spotter"

If you absolutely have to mark your location for an extraction, or to let somebody know where you are, right now, as in an emergency than WP cannot be beat.
Night or day it can be seen clearly, no doubts. It can be a lifesaving tool for units in trouble. A WP grenade can save soldiers lives.

But I don't believe it was meant to ever use as a primary weapon of choice.

[MADem]

53. Tracer rounds, too

And it does light up the night if you need to see the field of engagement. But it is not a weapon, or should not be in a civilized society.

[lies and propaganda]

32. took them right out of my mouth

this dude is missing some ass from a tiny fragment of it! and people want to somehow justify the use of it to cover Fallujah in a cloud of it.

absolute madness.

[oneold1-4u]

16. The stuff long ago

Was once shown (military 50s) a small chunk placed on a huge motor block (solid area) and it went through to the ground! HOT STUFF!

[thinkingwoman]

17. Kicked and recommended. nt.

[jillan]

18. Thanks for telling this story. We all hear about white phosphorus

and how horrible it is, but this story helps people like me understand.

Bastards!

[G_j]

19. Have you seen the film?

It is horrifying. Helicopters are blanketing a Fallujah neighborhood with WP at close range.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/08/1516227

Tuesday, November 8th, 2005
U.S. Broadcast Exclusive - "Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre" on the U.S. Use of Napalm-Like White Phosphorus Bombs

Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream Read Transcript
Help Printer-friendly version Email to a friend Purchase Video/CD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Democracy Now! airs an exclusive excerpt of "Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre," featuring interviews with U.S. soldiers, Iraqi doctors and international journalists on the U.S. attack on Fallujah. Produced by Italian state broadcaster RAI TV, the documentary charges U.S. warplanes illegally dropped white phosphorus incendiary bombs on civilian populations, burning the skin off Iraqi victims. One U.S. soldier charges this amounts to the U.S. using chemical weapons against the Iraqi people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today marks the one-year anniversary of the U.S. assault on the Sunni city of Fallujah when U.S. and Iraqi military forced out the town's residents, bombed hospitals and buildings, attacked whole neighborhoods, and denied entry to relief workers. In a North American broadcast exclusive, we bring you an excerpt from a new film that accuses the U.S. of using white phosphorus as a weapon in the Fallujah attack.

10,000 buildings were destroyed, with thousands more seriously damaged. At least 100,000 residents were permanently displaced, over 70 U.S. soldiers were killed, and the Iraqi death toll is unknown. Independent journalist Dahr Jamail was a one of the few un-embedded, independent reporters in Iraq at the time. On our program, he first reported U.S. troops were using chemical weapons in Iraq.


Dahr Jamail, speaking on Democracy Now!, November 2004:
"I have interviewed many refugees over the last week coming out of Fallujah at different times from different locations within the city. The consistent stories that I have been getting have been refugees describing phosphorus weapons, horribly burned bodies, fires that burn on people when they touch these weapons, and they are unable to extinguish the fires even after dumping large amounts of water on the people. Many people are reporting cluster bombs, as well. And these are coming from the camps that I have been to, different people who have emerged from Fallujah anywhere from one week ago up to on through up toward near the very beginning of the siege."
Almost one year after these allegations came to light, a new documentary claims to provide fresh evidence of the use of chemical weapons in Fallujah. In the film, eyewitnesses and ex-US soldiers say white phosphorus bombs were used in Fallujah. Rai says this amounts to the illegal use of chemical weapons and says they were used indiscriminately against civilian populations.
In a North American broadcast exclusive, we bring you an excerpt from the film.


"Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre," a documentary by Sigfrido Ranucci and Maurizio Torrealta. Broadcast today on the Italian state television network RAI.
- Download the full documentary: "Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre"
- Rai 24 News website

[leftchick]

67. thank you for this link G j

I don't know how I missed it. It will be 10 years or more before the general public becomes aware of this genocide. Much like the Mi Lia massacre.

[japple]

21. Thanks for the story. Kicked and nominated. N/T

[Sabriel]

22. Haven't you heard? We never used it against people.

It was just for tactical purposes. Whatever that is.

[Imalittleteapot]

23. Gawd. You were freedom fried. Thanks for posting this. nt

[Ilsa]

25. I recommend you email this to Mike Malloy.

He's been talking about WP for several nights now.

http://www.mikemalloy.com/

[email protected]

[Nikki Stone 1]

43. I'll second that recommendation

k

[JanMichael]

26. Our barbarism almost makes one long for the days of the sword & arrows.

Sorry to hear of you experience with our total lack of morality and sanity.

[LandOLincoln]

50. Except that even in the days of sword and arrows,

they used something called "Greek fire," the horrific effects of which sound a lot like white phosphorus.

[PapaJoe]

27. Willie Peter

That's what we called it in Nam, the idea was that our primary purpose was to use it as a marker but if it just happened to hit enemy combatants, well, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, that is war for you.
I do know that when I threw one in the river, the whole river lighted up like a neon sign.

[ArkDem]

73. Wow, how long and wide was that river?

[Toots]

28. I guess you could say using Willy Pete really Burns your Ass

:+

[hlthe2b]

29. I'm sorry this happened to you, but thankful you are here to

tell your story. We must get this across to all those in denial. May the world forgive us for what we have done (or at least what has been done in OUR name).

[democrank]

30. I`d call it criminal too.

Thanks for posting this. I can`t imagine how horrible it must be to get covered with this stuff. Such savagery.

Glad the corpsman had his K-Bar that day.

[formercia]

31. I was lucky

I've thrown a WP grenade but I was warned ahead of time that the range of the burning Phosphorus is greater than most people can throw it. I threw it and ran in the opposite direction as fast as I could but it was still too close for my comfort.
Elemental White Phosphorus is very toxic and is rightly considered to be a chemical agent. It is also a very cruel way to die. The byproduct of combustion is P2O5, the Oxide of Phosphorus and when it is combined with water, produces Phosphoric Acid, a common ingredient in soft drinks.

Supposedly it is used as a marker round because it generates a lot of white smoke and also used to generate a smoke screen to obscure troop movements but what it is actually used for in many cases is as an incendiary anti-personnel weapon. It should not even have been issued to the troops without very strict controls on the method of deployment.

Those who use it as an anti-personnel weapon should rightfully be prosecuted.

[Im with Rosey]

51. How long does it stay active?

What happens to it after it has landed somewhere, I guess what I am asking is that if it just is used the way it was intended, as illumination, how long does it last on whatever surface it is on? Perhaps this is a stupid question, I'm just wondering if even if it doesn't horribly kill someone immediately, what happens later if someone inadvertantly comes in contact with whatever it has blanketed? Please forgive my ignorance, I just wondered if it contaminates everything for any length of time.

[formercia]

52. Any Phosphorous exposed to the air will burn

It will ignite spontaneously on contact with air. The actual burn time is probably around 30 seconds but burning Phosphorus that contacts flesh buries itself and goes out once the Oxygen supply is removed. Phosphorus is also soluble in oil, so it tends to go into solution when it contacts fatty tissue thus causing long term toxic effects. Copper sulphate solution has been used as a prophylactic treatment because the Copper plates out on the Elemental Phosphorus, thus stopping it from burning and going into solution.
Actually, Phosphorus is quite common in homes. One of the components of matches is Red Phosphorus, the amorphous form of elemental Phosphorus. Although it will not ignite spontaneously, it is still toxic. The form of Phosphorous used in munitions is a creamy or yellowish off white color.

[Hailtothechimp]

33. Sounds like a WMD to me.

Isn't that what some were saying Saddam had? But America is the one to use them instead??

I weep for what this country has become.

[Swamp Rat]

34. kick and recommended n/t

[vickitulsa]

35. One Vietnam vet's experience with WP

Okay, I didn't post to the previous WP thread just because it was already getting ... uh, "a bit contentious" when I read it. (I scare away from highly charged arguments pretty easily, but that's another story.)

Now after reading Freedomfried's personal experience, I want to add another personal story of a soldier's experience with WP -- not mine firsthand, but my daughter's biodad who was a doorgunner in Vietnam had to write out "stressors" when he applied for PTSD certification with the VA some years ago. He had told me about this event, but he had to write it out in great detail for them (you have to convince the VA your experiences were traumatic enough)... and he shared the resulting document with the vets' group we both participated in online.

I don't still have that document, but I remember the story reeeelly well because it's the sort of thing that sticks in your mind -- whether you want it to or not.

Joe was stationed with a helicopter squadron out of Cu Chi in which he was with the "Stingers" platoon or the gunship crew. Gunships didn't take troops in or out of battle but covered them during insertions and extractions, or brought their considerable firepower to bear wherever it was needed.

One day in the jungle, Joe's ship took fire and crashed (one of 13 crashes he was in), but this one wasn't a "hard landing," as he put it. It was, however, in the middle of a significant firefight, or very close by it. So Joe set up the perimeter as it was his job to do, while the crew chief and pilot tried to get their ship repaired.

The firefight waned a bit and Joe's crew then gathered with several of the "grunts" on the ground who'd been fighting. Suddenly an NVA soldier came running out of the treeline straight toward them -- screaming bloody murder.

Of course everyone was on alert immediately again, but since the enemy soldier was not shooting at them and didn't even appear to be armed at the time, they just watched for a moment to see why on earth this guy was running TOWARD them screaming.

Well, as the man neared them, they saw what was going on and understood why he was running right to them. He had somehow received a severe hit with the "willie pete" as our troops there called it (WP - willie peter) in his chest, and it was burning right into him, bigtime.

The pain was obviously immense and no doubt the man knew he was going to die, so he chose to run right at some enemy soldiers ... so they would SHOOT HIM, killing him and putting him out of his misery quickly.

The reason Joe wrote up this incident as a Stressor, however, was "the rest of the story" ... that once the American troops saw what their enemy wanted, they all just backed away, lowered their weapons, and let the poor guy run right through their midst, unwilling to grant him the mercy of a quicker death!

I wanted to tell this story not only to reinforce just how bad WP is, but also to point out just how being in combat can harden those who fight, who kill and see their friends killed and witness all sorts of horrors most of us can only get an idea from through movies. What combat can turn them into may be the most frightening thing of all ... and it's not so easy to leave that attitude behind when they come home, either.

Just another important point to think about as you see our soldiers come home from Iraq and try to go back to civilian life here....

[blue neen]

37. Oh god.

I'm speechless.

The use of WP is a crime against all of humanity.

[NMDemDist2]

38. Good God! words fail me.....

[IronLionZion]

44. Oh shit

Shit, what are we doing. This is just wrong.

[texpatriot2004]

39. Thanks for sharing your first hand experience with this. n.t

[jim3775]

40. Another horror story

This comment was posted by Dem In VA in Daily Kos' first Italian documentary post.

I met an US soldier home from Iraq at a bachelor party over a year ago. He was recovering from injuries received while rescuing a buddy after a IED exploded as their convoy passed.

He said he went to get the guy out of the vehicle, grabbed him under the arms to pull him out and that the guy's legs separated at the knees because the bomb had white phosphorous and had melted his legs to the chassis. The guy I met who rescued the victim threw out his back carrying him while bent over trying to avoid sniper fire from the subsequent ambush.

[vickitulsa]

45. People do need to hear about these events.

I so strongly believe that if Americans were truly aware of what is being done in their name, they would be horrified and sickened and outraged as we here at DU are.

That's the reason I told Joe's WP story from Vietnam after Freedomfried was brave enough to share his personal experience with the nightmarish stuff. Joe told me of one other event he witnessed involving WP where an Army medic was frantically treating a grunt's back where some of the nasty substance had landed in some kind of accident in the field. Joe said that before the medic got to him, his buddies dragged the victim into a creek, trying to flush the chemical away with the water. I imagine they'd been told it wouldn't help but instinct takes over sometimes.

When the medic got to the wounded soldier, he did what Freedomfried's corpsman did -- used his k-bar to pick out quickly the bits of WP he could, and then he covered the entire area with a poncho and wrapped the patient up tightly so that NO AIR could get to the WP. Apparently not only does WP burn quite well in body fat, but also it burns much faster in the presence of oxygen (as fire does). The way I understand it, a victim's natural tendency to uncover and expose a wounded area in order to treat it actually works against him and just makes the chemical burn even faster. There's at least one Vietnam War movie (I think it's in Hamburger Hill where they depict such an incident with WP.

Freedomfried was indeed "lucky" -- not to be hit with WP of course but to have a Navy corpsman close by who knew exactly what to do! Otherwise he could have easily been, if not killed, at least crippled for life, from the WP burning down into his pelvic bones.

We've got to get these stories out, tell more Americans about them!! I began eight years ago helping my Vietnam vet friends who were (finally, with encouragement) filing VA claims for PTSD and medical disabilities. I simply did the laborious paperwork that is often so difficult for them to do. After a couple of successful efforts, word got around about my ability and willingness to help and the thing snowballed.

By last year I had written up dozens of stories of horrors experienced by real soldiers in real combat, detailing in writing atrocities the like of which I'd never imagined but came to believe were absolutely true. People sometimes accuse veterans of making up dramatic shit, perhaps because a few imposters (not real combat vets) over the years have done this. But I heard and then wrote out the brutal truth about war and combat over and over again, until I finally could do it no longer -- or at least I've taken a break from it.

And did you all know that right now the U.S. govt is trying to "cut costs" for the Iraqi and Afghanistan vets returning with PTSD problems (nightmares, flashbacks, explosive rage, debilitating hypervigilance, overwhelming anxiety and much more)? They are actually reviewing the claims of these soldiers who have ALREADY BEEN APPROVED for PTSD treatment and compensation from the VA, making them to PROVE YET AGAIN they actually suffer sufficiently!

If you knew how harrowing and damaging to a vet's psyche it is for them to have to detail the worst of their war experiences, you'd see what an atrocity in itself such a "review" is. This makes me SO ANGRY!!!!!

This is an excellent article in the Alternative Press Review on what's going on right now to further punish our troops after they have been damaged fighting this immoral war of George W. Bush:

http://www.altpr.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=506

I am VERY concerned about the immediate and long-term damage being done to the troops and veterans this administration claims to honor so much.

[MamaBear]

41. Thanks...

Your post answered many of my questions about wp.

How on earth are we as Americans going to pay our karmic debt for all this?

I'm glad to hear you recovered.

[Tesha]

70. I've claimed for several years that no one should be surprised when...

> How on earth are we as Americans going to pay our karmic debt for all this?

I've claimed for several years that no one should be surprised when
Washington, D.C. simply disappears in a bright blue nuclear fireball.
We've certainly "incented" enough people to do it to us, and it
wouldn't be that hard to arrange if you had the right friends who
might profit from the resulting chaos.

It's inconceivable to me that it won't happen eventually.

Tesha

[derby378]

42. I'm so glad you're still with us - minus a little flank

I just heard about Whiskey Pete for the first time on Randi Rhodes a couple of days ago. Now we know how the US military "pacified" Fallujah after those mercenaries were cut down.

Thank you for sharing your story. Using this as a weapon is just plain sadistic.

[Tsiyu]

46. Who would Jesus melt with white phosphorus?

How many babies would he burn?

Culture of Life, my ass.

[fooj]

47. OMG.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[nicknameless]

48. .

K & R

[lovelaureng]

49. This sounds like some nasty stuff, especially

to use in any type of weapon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. You thihk a bullet is less nasty?W

WAR is obsence and a NASTY business.. and how many nations do you think have this in the arsenal since it is very legal under the laws of land warfare?

Can you say EVERYBODY?

The matter is now that it was used but HOW it was used... against concentrated civy populoations it is a war atrociety, if not outright a war crime... against enemy armed troops it is pretty kosher.

[Greyskye]

58. This needs to be heard

So :kick: up to the top with you.

Thank you all for sharing your stories, and for your service.

[otohara]

60. Democracy Now Interview - A Military Spokesperson Downplays WP in Iraq

LT. COL. STEVE BOYLAN: White phosphorus has been used. I do not recall it was used as an offensive weapon. White phosphorus is used for marking targets for both air and ground forces. White phosphorus is used to destroy equipment and other types of things. It is used to destroy weapons caches. And it is used to produce a white smoke which can obscure the enemy's vision of what we are doing.

AMY GOODMAN: And you're using it in Iraq?

LT. COL. STEVE BOYLAN: We have used it in the past. It is a perfectly legal weapon to use.


Listen or read entire interview here: It will make you very angry

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/08/1516232

This is about WP used in attack on Fallujah - shocking and awful

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/08/1516227

[EuroObserver]

61. One Eyewitness:

Fighting from a distance

After pounding parts of the city for days, many Marines say the recent combat escalated into more than they had planned for, but not more than they could handle.

"It's a war," said Cpl. Nicholas Bogert, 22, of Morris, N.Y.

Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage the resulting explosions caused.

"We had all this SASO (security and stabilization operations) training back home," he said. "And then this turns into a real goddamned war."

Just as his team started to eat a breakfast of packaged rations Saturday, Bogert got a fire mission over the radio.

"Stand by!" he yelled, sending Lance Cpls. Jonathan Alexander and Jonathan Millikin scrambling to their feet.

Shake 'n' bake

Joking and rousting each other like boys just seconds before, the men were instantly all business. With fellow Marines between them and their targets, a lot was at stake.

"Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.

"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.
The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week.

They say they have never seen what they've hit, nor did they talk about it as they dusted off their breakfast and continued their hilarious routine of personal insults and name-calling.

Say 'cheese'

Every day since they started firing rounds into the city, other Marines have stopped by the mortar pit to take a turn dropping mortars into the tube and firing at some unseen target.

Like tourists at some macabre carnival, some bring cameras and have other troops snap photos of their combat shot. Even the battalion surgeon fired a few Saturday, just for sport.

Everyone wants to "get some," the troops explain, some joking that Fallujah is like a live-fire range.

Some have started to think of what happens after all the guns go silent.

"I just don't want to come home and have someone calling me a baby killer," Alexander said after firing dozens of high explosive mortar rounds into the city. "That would piss me off."

Alexander said no one has told him what the charges have hit.

<snip>

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/04/11/military/iraq/19_30_504_10_04.txt

(Thanks to kpete)

[milkyway]

63. Wow! Great find. You must post this as it's own thread.

It's interesting this was published a year and a half ago, but their are a lot of comments just posted.

[EuroObserver]

64. It was, Friday, but it sank...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5315872

[Fleshdancer]

69. the stories told on this thread are chilling

this might sound stupid, but for people like me who knew nothing about White Phosphorus, it needs a new name. "White Phosphorus" doesn't sound nearly as hideous as these stories describe it. Maybe something like White Death or Chemical Torture.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your experience. I have sympathy pains just thinking about your "red-hot screwdriver" analogy. :scared:

[me b zola]

71. Many thanks for sharing your experience, it helps us all understand

I am outraged that this is being used as an anti-personnel weapon. I hope that those responsible will be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity.



PEACE

[ArkDem]

72. WOW, you are lucky it wasn't cocaine-napalm!