We need to face it, folks. Bush won today.

[Walt Starr]

Seriously, no huge press conferences from the Dems to blow holes in Bush's "rewrite history" rhetoric allowed Bush to get out in front of the issue.

They've won this round and it's going to be damned difficult to take the intiative back.

[Jane Austin]

1. That speech was boring and petulant.

I doubt he won anything.

[Walt Starr]

2. Two words are all that matters

"Rewrite history"

That rhetoric is going to kill us with the middle. It's already being effective because I heard it all over AAR.

They've seized the momentum. that screws the minority.

[wndycty]

6. What the hell are you looking for its Veteran's Day for christsakes!

The only thing more distasteful than Bush's comments would be an F'ing press conference to rebut them!

[Hamlette]

84. thank you windy city....couldn't have said it better myself

the other issue is Americans seem to finally be getting it. They know who is rewriting history and it ain't the dems.

[leftchick]

86. I agree

a press conference would have backfired. I think Sen. Kennedy's statement was all that was needed. For today. Tomorrow they can let loose with full barrels.

[rocktivity]

95. DING DING DING! Wndycty, you're our grand prize winner!

...(I)t's Veteran's Day, for christsakes! The only thing more distasteful than Bush's comments would be an F'ing press conference to rebut them!

Using Veteran's day to boost himself isn't going to score points with anyone--especially in view of what the Bush empire is trying to do to veterans! As for re-writing history, it's too late--the public now knows that the WMD evidence was fabricated and marketed via Bush's Office Of Special Plans, not some Baghdad town drunk.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Media_Lies_Daily]

166. Bingo with a zingo. :-)

[Jon8503]

15. Walt, I think it is a little early to say they have won anything. I think

the theme Kerry, Kennedy and others are using about his speech being delivered on Veterans Day which is supposed to be a day to honor veterans not to be used for your own political gain holds a lot of water. Also, his speech in itself was the same old garbage repackaged somewhat.

The rewriting history issue can be turned on Bush. They have been the experts on that subject.

I do hope they come out a little harder on this speech though.

[karynnj]

113. especially as Kerry and Kennedy are actually veterans

having Cheney "Mr Other Priorities" lay the wreath at Arlington was disgusting.

Also, it's not lost on the American people who is rewriting history. I'm amazed at the deliberately mislead number. I would imagine this is such a harsh charge, you don't make it till you're certain - and for the people who previously believed it is with sadness and some loss of innocence - it's a hard thing to believe about your government. One nasty speech won't bring them back. Kerry's response is perfect. He sounds like the disappointed father or judge - Bush sullied veterans day when he should have been lauding the troops, then he lists all the ways they lied. All obviously true statements versus Bush throwing around charges.

This is better than being defensive, which Kerry could. It's true he voted for the IWR in Oct 2002, but as the inspectors searched finding nothing and Saddam cooperated, Kerry did publicly argue against invading. Bush did not follow the process of the IWR. Bush decided to invade. He seems very juvenile - his whole excuse now is that others did it too. (I don't accept that from my kids) The other thing is the others had no say in the mid March decision to invade.

[Nordic65]

91. Sorry, I don't agree...

Bush calming that dems are trying to "rewrite history" is just what the doctor ordered.

The answer should be:

"On March 20 2003 President Bush gave the order to invade Iraq"

A very simple, yet incredibly powerful statement that's irrefutable and almost impossible to justify in light of the horrific consequences.

It's a triple whammy:
-Everybody hates the war and the statement above reminds them who started this mess
-He's already perceived as not trustworthy regarding the actions that lead to war
-Associate him with all the consequences kills him

[warrens]

101. How do you figure?

We're not rewriting history; we told them at the time that their intelligence was bullshit. This is just a hail mary pass and it ain't working.

[Captain Hilts]

5. Inappropriate to give a POLITICAL speech before a MILITARY crowd. nt

[MercutioATC]

In the absence of a Dem response, I'd have to agree with Walt.

Perhaps "won" is a strong word but, once again, the Dems have let him frame the issue.

[wndycty]

17. Its f'ing Veteran's Day. . .

A strong response would have been wrong.

[Al-CIAda]

36. Is treason allowed to spout its lies just because its 'veterans day'?

Fuck that. The TRUTH needs to be told 24/7, especially, ESPECIALLY on 'VETERANS DAY'.

[MercutioATC]

40. Since future veterans have a major stake in this, I don't agree.

Frame it as "demanding answers for hundreds of thousands of future veterans" and I don't think many would take issue.

[Beetwasher]

96. Nonsense, This Speech Will Do NOTHING To Counter The Conventional Wisdom

that has already taken hold. That CW is that Chimpy lied to start the war. This speech does NOTHING to alter that frame. Absolutely nothing.

When 60% of the country thinks your a liar you can't just get on TV and say "I'm not a liar" and think it's going to work, and that's essentially what Chimpy did. Regardless of how the MSM portrays this, it ain't gonna change a thing. They've been propping him up all along and the CW has shifted anyway to "Chimpy is a liar who lied us into war". This speech does nothing to change that.

[MercutioATC]

102. I hope you're right. n/t

[goclark]

116. Recall the " I am not a Crook" speech

It got nowhere in the bigger picture of things.

[FSogol]

68. The average America did not hear Bush's whining today

and doesn't care what he said.

[Mend]

88. agreed.....what speech? I didn't know there was any speech.

Really.

[Dark]

163. No. They will read about it in tomorrow's papers.

And then will come the talking points, ad nauseum.

[Wordie]

142. True. It isn't working anymore. AP-Ipsos poll says 61% disapprove of the

way Bush is handling his job as President!

Whoo hoo! The sort of Rovian tactic we saw in the speech just isn't going to work anymore! People are finally paying attention! (People paying attention is Rove's worst nightmare!) So it appears the OP was worrying unneccessarily.

You can download the results of the AP-Ipsos poll here (Click on "Topline Results" to download the pdf): http://www.ap-ipsosresults.com/

Edited to add detail about the survey question.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Not a correct assumption. This is the guy whose ratings went DOWN

after giving a state of the union address - unheard of in recent decades AND the guy whose speaking tour on SS made approval of that program go down.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. Everything he touches turns to shit.

[The Magistrate]

4. Buck Up, My Friend!

The wretch accomplished nothing today. The argument the right profers in this matter someone has brilliantly boiled down to, "If ypu believed me when I lied, you can't complain I lied...."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Walt Starr]

13. The problem is, nobody is out there countering it all

with your simple sentence.

[Lochloosa]

26. No reason to counter it today.

His speech will be forgotten tomorrow

[cantstandbush]

125. You counter it when someone is listening. Not today.

It would be playing politics with the sacrifice of our military to launch out today and the Dems should say so.

No matter what Bush says at this point, he is still and will be reagarded as a liar and coward and deserter.

[The Magistrate]

29. That Was Taken Off A Radio Show, Sir

The thing is in the air, so to speak. Few people will have sat through the speech, very few will pay much attention to the reiteration of tired old claims and argumenmts comprising ir. The people have made up their minds the war was sold with lies: it took them a long time to do so, and that cannot be undone overnight, if it can even be undone at all.

[Walt Starr]

34. I hope you're right

but today was classic Rovian seizure of iniitative.

[Lochloosa]

43. No doubt it was Rove. But if it was the best he could come up

with, then * is done. Any first year intern could have scripted today.

[Jim Sagle]

44. It was a drunken seizure - not one that will impress anybody.

[VolcanoJen]

85. Rove phoned it in, Walt.

The Magistrate is right, my friend... buck up!

That speech was Rovian for certain, but its not his best work. Attempting to put Democrats on the defensive for trusting the President during his march to war is a foolish political mistake.

Senators Kennedy and Reid, as well as Rep. Pelosi, have issued strong statements already. Senator Kennedy's statement was read in its entirety on CNN shortly after the President's speech.

The speech was a shot across the bow. It's only going to solidify the support his doofy base has already given him, but it provides his detractors with ammunition I don't think Rove intended.

[Lochloosa]

35. Uh..haven't listened to the radio today

those are my thoughts. If they were said somewhere else...great minds...

[TahitiNut]

165. "You can't complain if you believed me when I lied." (EXACTLY!!!)

Cogent. Succinct. Pithy. It's exactly what these dittoheads believe!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

169. I missed that quote!

:thumbsup:

[mattomjoe]

7. History NEEDS to be rewritten....

it was never accurate to begin with!

[electron_blue]

8. This guy can't grab momentum if it hit him in the face

he's still sinking in the polls.

[Poiuyt]

9. The BFEE was dominating the news today

Bush speaking before the troops in PA, Cheney laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, Condi making her "suprise" visit to Iraq.

Classic Rove

[sabra]

10. this mornings latest poll states 6/10 believe * is a liar.

so no worries...

[BR_Parkway]

11. Disagree, first thing on CNN afterwards, their political correspondent

was talking about what a huge sign of weakness the whole speech was, the Shrub was quoting Kerry from the election trying to shore up his numbers.

He's down at 35% approval or so depending on the poll - the only one's left to convince are the one's voting whichever way their preacher tells them and sending all their hard earned money into the TV hucksters in exchange for a promise of a better life after this one.

If Falwell, Robertson or Dobson decided the time to cut their losses had come and came out against Shrub, he'd instantly drop to 10-12%

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. Any one with 1/2 of a brain understands what is going on

Rhetoric is generally not persuasive to those who think. Those who bought his load-o'-crap nod their heads in agreement when he just stands there making nonsensical sentences. They are also the ones who attended the Shaivo rally and wore purple bandaids to the convention. Brainless lemmings.

[Walt Starr]

27. The problem is, 2/3 of the country don't have half a brain.

:(

[SidDithers]

54. Wait, I thought it was half the country doesn't have 2/3 of a brain...

:evilgrin:

Sid

[Lochloosa]

63. and imagine...you only use 1/10 of the brain you have..

}(

[Evergreen Emerald]

160. so, if 1/2 the country only has 1/3 of a brain and they only use 1/10th

of the 1/3: holy crap. No wonder we are in such trouble.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

70. Way to win votes, there, Walt!

It's the same populace who voted Clinton in twice. Let's not come across like the "elitists" we're always accused of being and respect the folks on the other side of the aisle. You have to coax them over, not sneer at them. Or we loose. Again.

[Walt Starr]

77. Well, you've gotta figure that about half of those 2/3 don't even vote.

:shrug:

Which explains why they only have half a brain.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

87. Walt, you gotta go get a coke,

and take a walk or something. This stuff can get you down.

Let's just worry about the ones that vote, okay?

[Beetwasher]

76. Actually, Almost 2/3 of the Country Have Recently Found Their Brains

and will not be swayed by this speech. 60% dissaprove of Chimpy nowadays and think he's a liar. This pathetic speech will do nothing to change their minds, and most of that 60% will probably hear little about it anyway.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

90. I think Walt needs a group hug!

He musta watched, like, the whole thing or something. That takes guts!

[Walt Starr]

106. No, that's actually less than 1/3 of the coutnry

1/2 of the country who can vote don't.

[Beetwasher]

111. But I'm Not Talking About Voting

I'm just talking about the latest polls showing 60% of the country think he's a liar. They aren't just polling people who vote.

But if you want to talk about the half that votes, at the very least, 2/3 of those people think he's a liar too, that's more than 1/3 of the country (I think, though I'm terrible at fractions so I could be wrong. What's 2/3'rds of 1/2?) :shrug:

[Bouncy Ball]

14. You need to read The Rude Pundit.

I don't know anyone who even knew bush was GIVING a speech today.

It's amazing to me how few people around here even pay attention to him anymore. I'm serious. People really into politics, like those on DU, of course they pay attention to it (well most of us).

But damn, I bet I could go out right now and ask the first ten people I see how they liked bush's speech today and they'd say "huh?"

I think the worst thing to happen to him (realistically speaking) is this...people just turning away and going "meh."

Same old crap. No one wants to hear it.

[tridim]

16. Totally disagree..

In the context of the recent polls indicating that a majority of Americans find Bush untrustworthy. An even greater majority already say he misled us into war. Did you forget your sarcasm tag?

[callous taoboy]

126. Walt, usually I agree with you, but-

but tridim has this one right. If Iraq was not the total mess that it is, and if bush were as popular as he once was and we still had our guys hammering him about war deception, then today's speech would have smoked the Dems but good.

[Leopolds Ghost]

134. Speech? What speech? If it ain't prime time...

I am serious. Nobody's going to parse the brilliance of a speech that people like me didn't even relize he gave. If it ain't prime-time on live TV then you're talking sound bites that no longer make sense when taken out of context

("rewrite history" "criminalization of politics")

I am serious. I'm a political junkie and if y'all have to explain what Bush is referring to here IN CONTEXT of a speech that didn't get aired prime time, I don't need to know because it doesn't matter.

Usually its the Dems that specialize in sound bites that don't mean anything except in context. I know I've heard plenty of "memes" put out on DemocraticUnderground that made me shake my head and go, "Why? Why, Lord? If I didn't follow DU I wouldn't even know what these folks were talking about!" Now the Repubs are doing it. Yay! Clearly Karl Rove is off its game.

Now enough of this "rewrite history" claptrap. I don't know what it refers to and until the nightly news or the talking heads tries to explain to me (and most Americans) what it refers to in context, I choose not to engage the Black Knight in continued combat.

"It's only a flesh wound, I tell ya! Rewrite history! You'll see! Come back 'ere you!"

[rockymountaindem]

146. I agree with your disagreement

First of all, I doubt too many people are listening on Veterans' Day. That alone makes this speech lose a lot of oomph. Secondly, what you say about the polls is right. When Bush speaks now, nobody believes him. That more than anything else is going to sink his political fortunes. Let Bush talk all he wants, nobody believes him.

On another note, the Democrats saw this coming. If they wanted to, they could have had a major response. I think, along with a lot of others (I bet), that Veterans' Day is not a time to air the political dirty laundry. This way, it only looks like yet another Bush lie-fest, not a political sparring match in which the Dems and Repubs look equally responsible. Save that for Monday.

[LittleClarkie]

18. How many times is he going to stand in front of soldiers

and think that will make people believe him. His numbers are going down despite it.

And I wonder how many folks did what I did today. Turned him the hell off.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. I wonder how many people even turned it on in the first place.

:shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. "get out in front of the issue"

What issue? The Iraq war?

right.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. No way. He can try to twist it but Iraq is still a failure - HIS failure.

The fact he has to defend this Iraq debacle after 2 1/2 years tells me he's desperate.

[Lochloosa]

22. I think you have it wrong this time Walt

It's going to take a lot more than a bullshit speech in front of a military crowd for this dick to crawl his way out of the hole he is in. Fitz is not done, the release (i hope) of the torture pics, his party imploding in congress, polls in the 30's, Iraq.....etc.

I think he is done.

[ProSense]

23. Mission Accomplished, 11/11/05: 2062 American Soldiers dead. n/t

[DearAbby]

24. I also have to disagree with your assumption Walt,

To me this speech was the dying quiver of the corpse of this administration. Rewrite history? How many times have they changed the reasons for going into this war? What is the reason for today? Talk about rewriting.

[LaurenG]

25. No he didn't

He is so lost in the polls, few people are being blinded by his bs. Most people think he lied and don't trust him. He only dug his hole a little deeper. It's coming and he may be impeached because of it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1919020&mesg_id=1919020

edit to add link

[buff2]

28. That idiot didn't win shit

The damage is already done....everyone now knows he is a pathological liar. No way will he ever get his "credibility" back. He's done too much against Americans,lied about the reasons for going to war trying to strip them of their SS, putting corporations first, screwing up everything he tries to do, and they won't forget it.Scandals and investigations going on that will last until his failed term is over. I'm not the least bit worried.Stick a fork in him,he's done.

[rodeodance]

30. was there not a press confer?-- I know Ted Kennedy gave a response.

[GreenArrow]

49. "Fool me...

er...Can't get fooled again". I'd be surprised if people buy into the lies all over again. People are starting to realize this clown is a pathological liar. Are they going to let him insult their intelligence one more time?

[Politicub]

Huh?

I saw Bush as being on the defensive. Perhaps we tuned into different press conferences or something, because I saw empty platitudes for the 30% of so of Americans who continue to support him.

By being defensive, Bush loses by default. The GOP is doing a great job hanging itself without the dems getting involved.

[bowens43]

31. I disagree completely.

It was more of the same. Lies and distortions. He didn't fool anyone. He was pathetic. He reminded me of the scene from the blues brothers when Jake, lying the mud, said:

"Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD."

[Epiphany4z]

33. Bush just finished

this speech a bit ago. There has barley been time to rebut it. I am not worried because the man can't tell the truth. His credibility is shot and it is not hard to find news footage show how full shit he really is. Plus his disrespect for our vets on veterans day really doesn't speak to well of him.

I do believe we need to be out in front of this. For every lie they tell we need to be right there with not only the truth but proof of it.

[HereSince1628]

46. Before I accept the spin as a real bounce I'll wait for the new

poll numbers.

I was in a cemetery during the speech, so I'll have to read it to see if it said anything that looks like the parachute he needed to stop his free fall.

[Walt Starr]

47. We are 48 minutes away from the end of the news cycle

All we are getting are press releases.

There is one way and only one way to counter it, a high profile Democrat that voted in favor of the IWR must cojme out within the next 30 minutes and publically declare they were wrong to vote in favor of the IWR and the only reason they did vote in favor of the IWR was because Bush did not give the Senate all of the intelligence. They were called upon to make an ill informed decision in a short timeframe and then drop the bomb.

"The only reason I voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution was because George W. Bush LIED TO ME!"

Then the "rewrite history" rhetoric is countered with a new, better meme, BUSH LIED.

[PassingFair]

65. Cueing John Edwards......

John Edwards, come in....

[Walt Starr]

72. That would be PERFECT!

All he needs to do is appear on a single talking head show quickly. Even if he just called in!

[Bouncy Ball]

79. But....he already said this, didn't he???

[Walt Starr]

81. Not today

Nobody will be playing his statements as a direct rebuttal to Bush because he hasn't said it after the Bush speech.

[PassingFair]

89. If he knows what's good for him...

he'll get out there NOW and say it again.
Even if he has to strip naked, stand on his head and bark like a seal to get the media's attention.

[MelissaB]

100. okay, you got me at the strip naked part.

:smoke:

[PassingFair]

104. LOL!

Elizabeth, get John out in front of a camera NOW!
(He can keep his clothes on if he wants...)

[Bouncy Ball]

75. Hasn't he already said his vote was a mistake?

And hasn't Rockefeller said the same thing?

That they were mislead by the case presented by bush?

[Leopolds Ghost]

136. You're right, we're at the end of the news cycle and guess what?

"Rewrite history" means nothing out of context (I still don't know what you're talking about, like most Americans I don't listen to speeches in the middle of the day and I won't learn about what he said UNLESS Ed Schultz et al. spend the entire next week BITCHIN' about it, as you suggest) and the Nightly News ain't gonna bother to explain to us what he meant. This ain't a Swift Boat allegation (and there were plenty of people who thought those should've been ignored...) If it ain't prime time, it doesn't matter and doesn't need to be repeated in prime time by dem counterarguments which serve only to highlight whatever it was Bush said (I don't know, and you don't need to tell me, I don't really care, unless the News Media repeats it.) It sounds like another one of those Dem-style memes that were so rife here on DU before the election -- that make no sense out of context. Neither does this one. If I don't know in context of your brief description what Bush said (and you've surely said more about it than tonight's news will, even in a sympathetic light) then neither does America and I don't need to hear it.

[twaddler01]

37. How did we re-write history?

:shrug:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

38. If the best that rove et. al. can come up with is "rewrite history"

I think we're doing OK.

Besides, it actually presents the Dems with the opportunity to say,"Let's just take a look again at the facts...what was it you all were saying about why we have to invade Iraq?"

There used to be a time when gwb and minions could make the most outrageous claims and actually project their unpalatable behavior on their opponents.

It won't work anymore. MKJ

[DemInDistress]

39. Bush didn't win anything today..

I didn't listen to his speech but when a chickenhawk who went AWOL in
a time when our country needed him along with many others who dodged
Vietnam and blew 1,000,000 dollars worth of training to become a coke
fiend drunkard has NO CREDIBILITY here.
Yes he can still fool some of the people all of the time please walt
starr don't be one of them
Iraq is an unholy,unjust and unrighteous war.Iraq was on the menu long
before 911.I believe the Sept.11 attacks was perpetuated by the Crime
Family {MIHOP} although evidence has yet surfaced to bolster that claim but {LIHOP} is very much believeable especially after the NY.Post revealed on May 15 2001 a 911 shocker,in 3 inch type,"BUSH KNEW" prez was warned before 911 of terror attacks.That was the now
infamous Aug 6 2001 PDB.They didn't share that information with the American people until 2 years later when they were forced to admit that document into evidence at the 911 Commission hearings.
So Bush didn't fool anyone today except the SHEEPLE.....

[newportdadde]

41. Well he did get the new talking point out "Rewriting History".

Now will that trump the "Your a liar" feeling people have.. hard to say. The drop in gas price is helping to sooth the masses though which will help him.. at least till the gas bill comes in.

I think the verdict isn't in quite yet Walt but yeah he did give it his best shot. The 'rewriting history' is just the perfect RW talking point, watch every bought off media pudit and host to start humping that talking point now.

[Bouncy Ball]

48. The problem is, rewriting history and saying

"hey that was a HUGE mistake" are not the same thing. Not at all.

Witness Rockefeller and Edwards. That's not rewriting history.

So again the Turd-in-Chief is wrong, desperate and grasping at straws.

If anyone rewrites history it's him. (We KNOW where the WMDs are, um,it wasn't about WMDs but um, getting Hussein, yeah, that's it, etc ad infinitum, ad nauseum.)

[Walt Starr]

55. The Dems have to trump Bush

A high profile IWR supporter needs to come out immediatley and state, "the only reason I voted in favor of the IWR is because George W. Bush LIED TO ME."

[Leopolds Ghost]

140. If Kerry had said that in '04, he would've LOST the election

Not because it's disingenuous but because it's a silly and petulant argument that makes the person look silly.

"Bush LIED to me, wah wah..." do your job, Congressmen... why should we trust your judgement in the future.

Not to mention it sheds light on an argument that nobody heard Bush make, that will receive scant attention coming mid-day on a Friday when most of the talking heads shows have already scripted their appearances.

Prediction: "Issue 3! Bush talking points off his game? "rewriting history" -- what the heck is he referring to, Tony?" "Well, I think
Bush said it quite well, in the speech that I'm sure you ALL listened to --" "That's all the time we have for today! BYE BYE!"

[DearAbby]

62. Drop in the price of gas just confirms that the oil companies were making

out like bandits, and people are wondering...like I am how much a cut did Bushco get? People realize that making obscene profits at the cost of suffering and pain of others is criminal.

They are waking up that this administration is out to get the poor and the middleclass, reverse Robin Hood.

Bush today just confirmed that they are desperate

[Bouncy Ball]

42. As some others have pointed out, I think it would be really

distasteful for the Dems to hold a press conference to rebut his speech on Veteran's Day.

As it is, HE is the one who was distasteful for holding a political speech/rally on Veteran's Day. Let him be the only one with egg on his face.

I do fully expect to hear some things tomorrow, however.

And honestly.....bush is so eye-rolling for most people anymore. Sure wish they had reached this point with him a year earlier, but oh well.

[lildreamer316]

45. What are you talking about?

Not even close. We shook him off like water on a duck's back. Moving on.....
There wasn't anything to "win" anyway.

[blogslut]

50. Take heart

The people aren't buying it:

[Bouncy Ball]

52. BWA!

He'd have to work AWFULLY hard to reverse those numbers. I don't think it's possible at this point, I really don't.

[Walt Starr]

58. Internet polls are meaningless. n/t

[amitten]

So is random speculation.

The proof is in the pudding. When I see the public actively rallying behind Bush once more (ancient history, now) I might believe this speech made a difference. Not holding my breath, mind you. Bush is toast. One speech does not erase the countless recent (and devastating) mistakes he's made.

[KSLeftyMom]

82. Faux news is spinning like crazy though

The hamburger joint I went to for lunch had their crappy noon show on. The ticker at the bottom harped on how wonderful the speech was and how he was issuing orders about 'rewriting history.' But then, and my hub and I both laughed about it and got dirty looks for some 'Pukes in the joint...it said The Senate was investigating on the claims of the Dems that the Bush Administration "massaged intel" in the lead up to war.

Massage intel? F*ck that, he lied, there ain't no massagin' there!

[jackster]

51. no.....

there are TOO MANY problems with this administration - one speech is not going to turn it around

ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that Vet groups are PISSED about the decision made by a Delay-pick NOT to allow them to testify

[Pirate Smile]

53. I believe well over 50% no longer believe Bush's crap - his credibility

and trustworthiness have plummeted so people are not going to just buy whatever spin he throws out anymore.

[The_Mule]

56. Respectfully, bullshit.

The perception of public opinion has taken a dramatic turn lately. Today, Mr. Bush gave more evidence of his inability to take responsibility for anything he does. He provided another example of his contempt for certain American values by injecting politics into Veteran's Day. He also appeared even more buffonish than usual.

Mr. Bush tarnished his image even further with his words today.

[callous taoboy]

131. Bingo, Mule-

Politicizing Veteran's Day is really, really desperate and distasteful and the public is in no mood for any more Rovian spin.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. Uh oh! Hand wringing alert!

Hey..it was a speech. Words. No action.

[twaddler01]

60. Bush is good at this...

no action or WRONG action!

[Dogmudgeon]

59. Are you sure?

Bush whined loudly. That's pretty much what I got.

Then, I tried thinking about it as if I was a right-winger. The result was the same: Bush whined loudly.

Whining is not becoming to an alleged world leader.

--p!

[maximovich]

61. Um.... No...

Step away from your tv.

[carolinalady]

64. A lot of people thought he won the PR war when he nominated

Scalito as well. That did not happen. Even his own party is turning against him and I think the Dems are right not to lash out at him today. They would be painted as shrill and unpatriotic.

[Beetwasher]

66. Heh? Every Major Dem Spokeperson Countered IMMEDIATELY!

Kerry, Reid, Pelosi etc. All came out immediately and countered. Now, the MSM may not be covering, but that's hardly the Dems fault.

That being said, I think you're overestimating this pathetic speech of his. It was sad and desperate whining that will get little coverage to begin with and the only people who know about it thus far are political junkies like ourselves. This speech will hardly reach the majority of the public and what little does will change no one's mind.

[JanMichael]

67. ummm yeah. Maybe he'll hit 39% approval rating next week

He didn't "win."

He didn't make an issue go away...he just sounded like what he is: a fucking whiner.

[NanceGreggs]

69. I must disagree ...

Every time the Chimp stands in front of a group of soldiers, he reminds the country that when given a chance to serve in the military himself, he took the easy way out -- and then couldn't be bothered to complete his NG duty anyway.

His biggest gaff today was bringing up the fact that 'people are trying to rewrite the history' of how we went to war in the first place. Saying this at a time when too many people are asking too many questions about that alleged 'pre-war intelligence' that this Admin still refuses to be transparent about; not smart.

Also, as has been stated in many posts on this thread, for the Dems to turn this into a he said/she said debate on a day set aside for honouring vets would be inappropriate in the extreme.

With poll numbers that are falling every day, casualties in Iraq rising, and political scandals hitting the headlines on a daily basis, Bush is not in a position to 'win' anything on any issue.

Those 'favourability' numbers are not coming back. And all of the photo-ops, speeches and Rovian strategy in the world aren't going to change that.

[Bouncy Ball]

71. What did he win?

A sweet prize?

[MrBenchley]

73. Walt, do you ALWAYS run around in a state of panic?

Last week the rest of us had to run and buy a gun because you felt insecure...today the sky is falling because the corrupt drunk madea speech....

[Texasgal]

94. Ummmf!

:spray: :rofl:

Riiiight?

Walt... dude..relax!

[MrBenchley]

114. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

The thread last week was especially funny...

[MrBenchley]

158. By the way....

wonder if Walt panicked on October 5th, too....

check this out...

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/002012.html

[SammyWinstonJack]

115. ..

:yoiks: I didn't watch the corrupt drunk's speech, in fact I wouldn't have known he was giving a speech at all, if I had not logged on to DU. I'm guessing not a lot of people were aware the Liar was giving a speech today. So, many people will not have heard his lies, only the spin from the media and most have caught on to that bias. :evilgrin: I think he may have turn even more people off with this latest ploy to validate his wrong actions, lies and manipulations re: the war on Iraq.

[MrBenchley]

124. It was yet another pile of blah....

with the freepers' lame "It's all the Democrats' fault" pasted on awkwardly....

And I can't see many people suddenly forgetting the way the "war pResident" strutted around thumping his chest to buy this new load of bushwah....

[SammyWinstonJack]

128. I think you're correct there.

His strutting and chest thumping turns more people off than it ever convinces. Shame the corrupt drunk doesn't get that.

[MrBenchley]

137. Chimpy has gone from

posing as the courageous tough guy who stood up to the tyrant Saddam...

to being unmasked as a coward who spent August hiding from a middle aged unarmed lady, sniveling publicly that "the Democrats made me go to war"....

[SammyWinstonJack]

144. Poseur fits Chimpy to a tee. Courageous and tough doesn't.

Too bad his zombie like followers can't or refuse to see that. If they had/would, we wouldn't be in the mess we now find ourselves in and tens of thousands of innocents would still be among us, including 2060+ U.S. Troops.

[MrBenchley]

155. Exactly...

And once the mask falls, he can't pick it up and wear it any more....

[SammyWinstonJack]

159. I'm just sorry he was ever allowed to wear the mask at all. We have the

corporate owned media to thank for that. And, however much that they *might* be trying to redeem themselves now, if in fact they are at all, the damage has already been done. :-( This in no way lets the zombies off the hook, since they are responsible for informing themselves, just as we all are. I am just saying the biased media played a HUGH!!11! role as we here, all know. I am angry, can you tell? :silly:

[MrBenchley]

161. Agreed...

He got a free ride for things he shouldn't have....

[in_cog_ni_to]

74. He can't turn this on the Democrats. HE LIED. THAT is why they voted for

the IWR. Like Hillary says, If they had known what they know now, there never would have been a IWR because it never would have made it to the Senate floor for a vote. No. I think it's too late for him to get out of this mess. EVERYONE knows they LIED.

[progressivebydesign]

78. I beg to differ. and here is why:

Bush had a few soundbites, but most of the reaction I heard(outside our DU echo chamber) is that Bush BLEW it by turning an event meant to honor veterans into a political bashing. It was tacky and wrong. Also, not ONE radio news segment featured that without the Democratic response AND the next story about Bush's dismal polling, the fact that 6 out of 10 polled found him dishonest.

Bush is having that bad employee phenom lately. You know... ever see (or be) on of those employees that suddenly is out of favor with the bosses? No matter what they do, it's wrong, no matter what they say.. it's suddenly wrong... even tho there may be plenty of folks around them doing the same thing uncriticized? Or in Bush's case, doing the very same damn things he's done for 5 years and now he's always on the shit-list?

He didn't win. His bloated comments were seen as inappropriate.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

80. You give in too easily, my friend.

It's but a single day. Tomorrow is another day, and we'll have our next chance then.

They only win if you SAY they win. THAT'S their victory. Don't you DARE give it to them so quickly and easily.
---

It Better End Soon (Part III)
Chicago

Hey, everybody
Won't you just look around
Can't anybody see?
Just what's going down
Can't you take the time?
Just to feel
Just to feel what is real
If you do
Then you'll see that we got a raw deal
They're killing everybody
They're killing me and you
They're fighting and killing everybody
I wish it weren't true
They say we got to make war
Or the economy will fall
But if we don't stop
We won't be around no more
They're ruining this world
For you and me
The big heads of state
Won't let us be free
They made the rules once
But it didn't work out
Now we must try again
Before they kill us off
No more dying!
No more killing
No more dying
No more fighting
We don't want to die
No, we don't want to die
Please let's change it all
Please let's make it all
Good for the present
And better for the future
Let's just love one another
Let's show peace for each other
We can make it happen
Let's just make it happen
We can change this world
Please let's change this world
Please let's make it happen for our children
For our women
Change the world
Please make it happen
Come on
Come on
Please
Come on
It's up to me
It's up to you
So let's do it now
Yeah
Do it now

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

83. He won the Boobya prize for triteness in speaking.

Same shit, different day. It's just not selling any more.

Though, I do agree with your take on the non-response by the milquetoast Dem "leadership".

[dogday]

92. Everytime Bush speaks, the media hypes it

up like it was the Sermon on the Mount. Somehow after 30 minutes, he has turned the whole situation around. Come On, what a load of crap...

[mattclearing]

93. I disagree. The Dems are letting him play himself.

Every time he trots out September 11th and makes his smug proclamations about complete victory, people get madder.

Dems will give the media first shot at Bush, and if they fail to knock him (as they seem to be doing), then they will go ahead and point out the problems in his speech.

Dean will be on Meet the Press this weekend.

Too much bad feeling has built for Bush to talk his way out of it in one speech.

And he politicized Veterans Day, which will piss off a lot of people on both sides of the aisle.

[kpete]

97. Kerry and Kennedy

Sen. Kennedy, D-Mass., Quickly Criticizes Bush's Speech/NYT
Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., quickly returned Bush's criticism.

"Its deeply regrettable that the president is using Veterans Day as a campaign-like attempt to rebuild his own credibility by tearing down those who seek the truth about the clear manipulation of intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war," Kennedy said in a statement.

"Instead of providing open and honest answers about how we will achieve success in Iraq and allow our troops to begin to come home," Kennedy said, "the president reverted to the same manipulation of facts to justify a war we never should have fought."

This appeared in the NYT and Newsday. It dissappeared from both those articles but is now on Kennedy's web site.

http://kennedy.senate.gov/~kennedy/statements/05/11/2005B11643.html

John Kerry Responds to George Bush’s Veterans Day Political Attacks
John Kerry Responds to George Bush’s Veterans Day Political Attacks
November 11th, 2005

Today, George Bush delivered a Veteran’s Day speech that should have been used to honor our Veteran’s and active duty troops, and been used as a tool for critcism of the growing dissent against the Iraq War. Without naming names, Bush filled his speech with more lies, more misleading statements and his usual fear and smear tactics. He reiterated the same old, “stay the course” message, repackaged into, “We will never back down. We will never give in.”

In response to Bush’s speech today, John Kerry issued the following statement from Boston, where earlier today he participated in a Veterans Day tribute to America’s veterans and active duty armed forces:

“I wish President Bush knew better than to dishonor America’s veterans by playing the politics of fear and smear on Veterans Day. Instead of trying to salvage his slumping political fortunes, the Commander in Chief should honor our men and women in uniform with a clear strategy for success in Iraq. But this Administration abandoned that path long ago, and our troops have paid the price for it.

“This administration misled a nation into war by cherry-picking intelligence and stretching the truth beyond recognition. That’s why Scooter Libby has been indicted. That’s why a statement in the State of the Union Address was retracted. It’s a dangerous day for our national security when an Administration’s word is no good. Today they continue the same games hoping Americans forget the mess they made in Iraq that’s cost over 2,000 Americans their lives and their failure to find Osama bin Laden. Americans will not forget, and neither will those of us who defend our country by asking tough questions and demanding a new course in Iraq.“

LINKS - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1127

[Crazy Guggenheim]

98. If he keeps using it after the speech then The Demos should

counter attack. But, not now.

[Connie_Corleone]

99. Most people didn't hear Bush's speech.

All they'll see of it are the few seconds that will be on the evening news.

The speech didn't do a damn thing for Bush. He hasn't won anything.

[Walt Starr]

105. It's be WONDERFUL if everybody SAW the speech

All anybody is going to hear is "rewrite history".

[Leopolds Ghost]

150. OK but, um..I still don't know what "rewrite history" means, so no worries

n/t

[tjwash]

103. No he didn't. Who the hell even listens to bush* anymore?

Freepers and Religious nuts? Big flippin' deal.

Dems did the right thing by not glorifying anything that nitwit says with a response. They need to stay on Libby and Rove, keep investigating Cheney and Halliburton, and not get distracted by bullshit like this.

[Vinca]

107. Huh? He won?? I don't think so.

I'm betting of the few imbeciles who bothered to watch (moi included), 75% were yelling at the television (moi included) calling him names preceded by four letter words. Maybe he won on presentation, I'll give him that, but the fine delivery of bullshit still makes it bullshit.

[Chiyo-chichi]

108. "Rewriting History" is not even a new point from him

"This nation acted to a threat from the dictator of Iraq," Bush said. "Now there are some who would like to rewrite history -- revisionist historians is what I like to call them."

George W. Bush, June 16, 2003

[seabeyond]

109. bullshit walt.... n/t

[SiouxJ]

110. Except that nobody cares what he has to say anymore

because most people know he's full of shit now.

[im10ashus]

112. I have to kindly disagree with you.

The * people are rewriting history. This was another pre-fabricated speech with troops in the background to make it look like he has their support. Polls show that he is the worst president ever and his "speech" was nothing more than the right-wing talking points we have heard all this past month. Just wait. The dems will fire back and it won't be pretty.

[WilliamPitt]

117. My arse

The reason White Houses 'take out the trash' and do news dumps on Fridays is because no one watches the news Friday night, and no one reads the paper on Saturday mornings. An overgeneralization, to be sure, but viewership and readership of the news plummets from Friday morning until Sunday morning. So, in essence, the speech and all resultant GOP blather will fall on mostly unhearing ears.

Further, the Dems will have until Saturday afternoon (for the Sunday newspapers and editorials) and Sunday morning (the talk shows) to get their response together. They'll be ready for the Sunday morning newspaper readership spike, as well as for Russert and Stephanopolous and the rest.

I have no idea why they chucked this thing up today. Yesterday, it would have been 1000x more effective, even with all the bullshit. But anyone who thinks we took a hosing today is falling victim to the oldest DU malaise there is: they think the rest of America pays attention the way we do.

Not on Fridays, they don't.

[nomatrix]

138. Agreed Will. Friday is news dump day.

Walt, stop watching TV news without your tin foil hat on. Your starting to believe the PSYOP.

Do you remember during the Gore campaign, the subliminal messages?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

118. No. I think it's going to backfire.

[Vektor]

119. I don't know that he "won" so much as he lied and backpedaled.

All he did was spew more "cover my ass" bullshit and lies. Same as he always does.

[0rganism]

120. I agree that he took the initiative, but maybe just dug himself in deeper

See, once bush has lost his credibility on the issue, he can't really go around calling foul on others. And, as some have already pointed out, a partisan attack on Veteran's Day may in itself be perceived as tasteless and self-serving.

Whatever the result, time will tell if you're correct. We'll have to wait and see if Americans are ready to buy the next load of golden horseshit from bush.

[HoosierClarkie]

121. Maybe this will cheer you up.

A very close relative who is a HUGE bush supporter asked me why bush always smiles after talking about serious and horrible things. ;) Of course I know he smirks because he has no remorse, but the repugs are starting to question him! I think the overall perception of "bush knows best" is unraveling for them. In Indiana, this is a miracle!

[oregonindy]

122. nah...bush shot himself in the foot again.

[NNadir]

123. Not even close. In fact, he couldn't have said anything dumber or more

perfect for our cause.

Moreover he used soldiers as props again and I heard even had a "victory" banner, recalling the famous "mission accomplished."

He's just digging himself deeper and deeper and deeper.

A year ago it seemed impossible, but this fool may well get himself arrested yet.

[girl gone mad]

127. No way.

He looked weak, he sounded weak and the applause from the military crowd was tepid, at best.

He came across as someone on the defensive, not on the offensive. I doubt he will get any traction from this appearance.

[spanone]

129. Naw, I think he looked like the nasty little coward that he is.

He soiled veterans day by making it about politics. Most Americans know that the soldiers are not about policy, they are the proverbial pawns in the game. Bush* showed his sorry political ass today.

[rniel]

130. Yes look for 80% approval rating tomorrow

because bush said the words "rewrite history"

It's over folks. He said the magic words that will destroy us all.

Are you kidding me?

I've got a few words for him. "failed presidency"

[BurtWorm]

132. Just because you were impressed doesn't mean the rest of the country was.

:eyes:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

133. HYSTERIA!

THE SKY IS STAYING UP!

[NervousRex]

135. More BS...

:boring:

[AzDar]

139. He's a liar who's politicizing a holiday declared for folks who were/

are brave enough to fight for their country. His speech today made him look like he's still trying to avoid responsibility for a misbegotten war of his choosing; just like he avoided his responsibilities to his country during Vietnam. Maybe he should save his lame-ass speechifyin' for National Chickenhawk's Day.

[milkyway]

141. Let bush politicize Veteran's Day. Dems will wait til tomorrow and Sunday

morning talk shows.

[Leopolds Ghost]

143. "Rewriting History" "Criminalizing Politics"

Yet another in a string of talking points for the Dems to use against Bush.

It means nothing out of context (I still don't know what it refers to) and if you have to ask me, I (like most Americans) would guess that it refers to Bush's own lies and bad behavior. The Dems should do likewise and start using these talking points that Buah has kindly provided them in a speech no one will ever hear.

Thank you, (whoever is in charge now that Rove is no longer producing quality talking points for the Republicans to use that clearly work in their favor and cannot be used against them)!!!

It is called:

"Projection"

"Easily Turned against your Attacker"

"Double Edged Sword"

"Pot Kettle Black"

Feel free to use any of these memes which I have created to counter Bush's arguments. You don't have to credit me. ;)

[dchill]

145. Bush won nothing today.

Bush has jumped the shark, and "revisionist history" is not only a tired meme, it's one that Bush & Co. have used more than anyone. "No one could have imagined that people would use truth as bombs to attack our approval ratings."

No, today Bush tried to put one past us, but he sharted.



* Sharted - "tried to fart, and a little sh** came out..." (From the movie "Along Came Polly)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

153. No presentation by the Chimpster...

...himself will rescue his sinking approval ratings. He needs well known, trusted, and respected personalities from the House and Senate, media, the military, and the private sector to come forward and shill for him. I'm sure Karl's aware of this and simply can't find people who care so little about their own reputations that they will agree to do it. I'd guess McCain will be tapped for this duty again soon and hopefully he'll extract something in return if he agrees to play ball, like maybe a promise from Chimpy to quit torturing people---wouldn't that be a nice concession from this illegitimate fascist regime.

[Neil Lisst]

147. I disagree. No one cares what Bush said today.

This is Veterans Day. It's to be expected the president will appear before some group of soldiers, and he will try to sell his war again.

Dems can react SUNDAY when the talk shows take place. That is where they will demolish his arguments with these points:

1. WRONG, Mr. President. You lied about the intelligence, you kept us from knowing the real deal, and you used forgeries that your State Dept had rejected to make your case. You deceived the American people, knowingly.

2. WRONG, Mr. President. We authorized you to go to war because you said you would get UN backing and let inspectors do their jobs. You failed to get the UN backing, you ignored the inspectors, and you launched a war because you wanted to.

I don't think Bush accomplished anything today, except give everyone one more reason to go back and prove how he and all his gang lied repeatedly to get authorization to go to war.

[Walt Starr]

148. OKAY, IT IS LOOKING LIKE I OVERREACTED!

Seems to me the talking heads are being a bit more honest than usual. Hell, Blitzer even went after Bartlett because Bush gave this thing on Veterans Day.

I was reacting based upon pre-Katrina media intelligence and not the post-KAtrina media intelligence.

:blush:

[Leopolds Ghost]

151. I'l start to worry if the "Swift Republican Backbenchers For Truth"

Start to attack elected Dems for voting for the war.

Now that'd be a smart tactic on their part... seriously.

Dems would have to respond, and cloud the issue.

Americans always love a shameless Debate Tactic.

It would certainly be one way of testing the MSM loyalty to *.

Just look at the Swift Boat Vets. :evilfrown:

[IChing]

152. Did you watch this or comment on this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5333508

It needs, anyway, to be read, viewed and kicked

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

157. Don't REact. Just ACT.

:evilgrin:

[blonndee]

164. Yay! Thank you! I only got to see part of the speech and couldn't

watch any of the post-speech commentary because I was working. When I read your post earlier today it got me a little worried that I was missing something, because I thought what I saw of the speech was absolutely horrible and obviously a desperate move. I suspect it did come across that way to the general public, not just us lefties.

Don't be embarrassed. ;-) Be happy!

[Neil Lisst]

167. Well, we did have the benefit of waiting to see how it played ...

And that made my reaction easier.

Except for Fox News, the TV media did a decent job of showing his weaknesses.


maybe it's because they saw THIS ...
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[Leopolds Ghost]

149. "* decieved the nation. I WAS WRONG to trust him"=GOOD "* decieved me"=BAD

Just some helpful hints, if you guys're really, truly upset about this new talking point and think that you can put out something of similar caliber - please do better than Bush did.

Because "rewriting history" is a meaningless, ham-handed statement that means nothing out of context. "I was lied to" is far worse -- it makes the pro-IWR Dems look silly and incompetent -- incapable of being trusted on matters of national security like voting against an illegal war -- which, fortunately, only us political junkies are aware is true.

Jujitsu is unnecessary in this case. ;) We don't need to give credibility to every statement the man utters in a barely newsworthy speech, especially not necessary merely to "use the attackers weakness against him."

If we want to do that, then for heaven's sake, let's USE the phrase "rewriting history". USE the phrase "criminalizing politics". It is a WONDERFUL GIFT to elected Dems who are still trying to decide if they support the illegal war or not. It is an accurate description of what * is doing.

I don't know why he's bringing it up statements that only make him look like the pot calling the kettle black... kind of like a bully going "wahh... he hit me first!" after his victim finally punches him in the mouth.

[RadiDem]

154. DISAGREE 100%! America won't approve of AWOL using vets day to attack

[lies and propaganda]

156. he 'won' with the dipshits who already on his team

and the tide has begun to turn; repugs are coming out of the 'moderate' closet everday.

such a party pooper.

[apollo56]

162. Bush only showed how stupid he is today= Fox 36% rating today

He didn't say anything new today and only made a fool of himself.

[leesa]

168. Nah. They don't have a leg to stand on and they know it. It's just one

more GOP talking point of the week, and a weak one at that.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

170. Nah. Nobody saw it.

People don't listen to his canned speeches anymore. They pay attention if the speech follows an event such as 9-11 or Katrina, but I don't know of anyone who was standing in line to buy the bullshit today. :boring: