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Boom!!! And there it is: Bush says, "Dems are trying to rewrite history"

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:28 PM
Original message
Boom!!! And there it is: Bush says, "Dems are trying to rewrite history"
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 01:00 PM by sabra
of how and why we went to war"

- says that over 100 Dems voted yes and had the same intel as he did regarding WMD...

- Dems are sending the wrong message to our troops.

- Our troops deserve the support, and that we will settle for nothing but victory

* here are the exact quotes:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a2HXDKT_Y4RQ&refer=top_world_news

``It is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how the war began,'' Bush said in a Veterans Day speech today to military families at Tobyhanna Army Depot near Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. ``More than 100 Democrats in the House and Senate who had access to the same intelligence voted to remove Saddam Hussein from power,'' the president said.

``Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war,'' Bush said.

``These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgment related to Iraq's weapons programs,'' he said.

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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. "That's accurate." Uh, er, "I don't think that's accurate."
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. I like DUer blm's point that the inspections = new intel, and Bush lies
The op-research that was done prior to the Wash Post story below and Bush's speech today seems to go over the head of the media.

Our media needs "keep it simple" or else they get confused.

But the idea that this is Shoring up his credibility, casting his critics as hypocrites, as he rejects the (Daschle)Lawrence J. Korb plan (Center for American Progress) to withdraw 80,000 troops from Iraq next year, with most of the rest leaving by the end of 2007, IS NUTS! - IMHO! :-) .

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/11/politics/11policy.html

November 11, 2005

His Image Tarnished, Bush Seeks to Restore Credibility

By RICHARD W. STEVENSON and DAVID S. CLOUD

WASHINGTON, Nov. 10 - <snip>In a Veterans Day speech on Friday in Pennsylvania, Mr. Bush will take on a new round of accusations by Democrats that he exaggerated the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, a senior administration official said Thursday, conceding that the Democrats' attack had left more Americans with doubts about Mr. Bush's honesty.

"It will be the most direct refutation of the Democrat charges you've seen probably since the election," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to outline a strategy that has not yet become public and will play out over several weeks through presidential speeches, close coordination with Republicans on Capitol Hill and a stepped-up effort by the Republican National Committee.<snip>

<snip>
The White House's effort to stop the erosion is centered on defining the president's critics as Democrats who voted for the war based on the same intelligence Mr. Bush saw but have switched positions, often under pressure from their party's left wing.

"I point out that some of the critics today believed themselves in 2002 that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction," Stephen J. Hadley, the national security adviser, said Thursday at a news briefing. "They stated that belief, and they voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein posed a dangerous threat to the American people. For those critics to ignore their own past statements, exposes the hollowness of their current attacks."


====================================================================
BUT BACK AT THE MEDIA THEY HAVE A FEW FACTS THAT BUSH FORGETS
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2242127

When conservatives are asked about the "intelligence" used by the Bush Administration to convince Congress and the American people of the urgent need to fight the Iraq War, the response is almost always spin.

Blame George Tenet (and mention that he was a Clinton appointee). Point out that "everyone" thought that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Claim that Congressional Democrats were given "the same information" as the Bush Administration. Argue that there's been "no proof" that the Bush Administration manipulated or cherry-picked information in stating its case for a pre-emptive strike.

It's all a bunch of hooey. Wild flailing of arms and a wilder array of claims, all designed to throw blame on anyone but the administration's inner circle.

***

The subject of what the administration knew and when it knew it came up again a few days ago with revelations regarding Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, a captured Al Qaeda commander whose claims about poison-gas training for the Qaeda group by Saddam’s government formed the basis for some of the most dramatic arguments used by senior administration officials in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

Is it possible that the administration knew, as early as February 2002, that al-libi was a liar?

At that time, a four-page DIA Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary stated it was “likely” al-Libi was “intentionally misleading” his debriefers and might be describing scenarios “that he knows will retain their interest.” The report was circulated at the time throughout the U.S. intelligence community and that a copy would have been sent to the National Security Council.

President Bush first referred to al-Libi's claims in his Oct. 7, 2002, speech in Cincinnati where he strongly emphasized Saddam’s ties to international terror groups in general and Al Qaeda in particular. “We’ve learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases,” Bush said.

The claim about poison-gas training resurfaced four months later in greatly expanded form during a particularly dramatic portion of then Secretary of State Colin Powell’s Feb. 5, 2003, speech to the UN Security Council that refers exclusively to al-Libi — although he is not actually identified by name.

But according to the newly declassified documents, the credibility of those statements by Bush and Powell were already in doubt within the U.S. intelligence community. While the DIA was the first to raise red flags in its February 2002 report, the CIA itself in January 2003 produced an updated version of a classified internal report called “Iraqi Support for Terrorism.” The previous version of this CIA report in September 2002 had simply included al-Libi’s claims, according to the newly declassified agency document. But the updated January 2003 version, while including al-Libi’s claims that Al Qaeda sent operatives to Iraq to acquire chemical and biological weapons and training, added an important new caveat: It “noted that the detainee was not in a position to know if any training had taken place,” according to the copy of the document obtained by Newsweek.

As Newsweek first reported last July, al-Libi has since recanted those claims. The CIA “'recalled and reissued' all its intelligence reporting about al-Libi’s “recanted” claims about chemical and biological warfare training by Saddam’s regime in February 2004 — an important retreat on pre-Iraq war intelligence that has never been publicly acknowledged by the White House," the magazine reports.

***

This is not the first time that Americans have learned that the administration made urgent claims about the need to go to war -- claims not backed up by the National Intelligence Estimate.

As the Washington Post pointed out nearly two years ago, President Bush and Vice President Cheney on several occasions made what were later learned to be questionable claims in 2002:

-- On Sept. 24, 2002, at the White House, Bush referred to a British government report that Iraq could launch "a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order" is given -- and went on to say, "Each passing day could be the one on which the Iraqi regime gives anthrax or VX -- nerve gas -- or someday a nuclear weapon to a terrorist ally."

But in repeating the British claim that Iraq's chemical weapons could be activated within 45 minutes, he ignored the fact that U.S. intelligence mistrusted the source and that the claim never appeared in the October 2002 U.S. estimate.

-- On Aug. 26, 2002, Cheney said: "Many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon." The estimate, several weeks later, would say it would take as many as five years, unless Baghdad immediately obtained weapons-grade materials.

In the same speech, Cheney raised the specter that Hussein would give chemical or biological weapons to terrorists, a prospect invoked often in the weeks to come. "Deliverable weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a terror network, or a murderous dictator, or the two working together, constitute as grave a threat as can be imagined," Cheney said.

It would be more than a month later that a declassified portion of the NIE would show that U.S. intelligence analysts had forecast that Hussein would give such weapons to terrorists only if Iraq were invaded and Hussein faced annihilation. "The probability of him initiating an attack . . . in the foreseeable future . . . I think would be low," a senior CIA official told the Senate intelligence committee during a classified briefing on the estimate on Oct. 2, 2002.

-- On Sept. 8, 2002, Cheney said of Hussein on NBC's Meet the Press: "We do know, with absolute certainty, that he is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon." Cheney was referring to the aluminum tubes that some analysts believed could be used for a centrifuge to help make nuclear materials; others believed they were for an antiaircraft rocket. Such absolute certainty, however, did not appear in the estimate.

-- The October 2002 estimate said: "We had no specific information on the types or quantities of weapons, agents, or stockpiles at Baghdad's disposal."

But Bush, in his 2003 State of the Union, said: "Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them. U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents."

***

Which brings us to the spin. CNN reported on Nov. 8 that White House aides, speaking anonymously, said they hoped to increase what they called their "hit back" in coming days. One main theme: to say that Democrats had access to the same information as the Bush Administration.

This bit of spin has been ongoing for almost as long as it's been known that there were no substantial ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda, and that our inspectors could not find evidence of WMD.

For example, Fox News Channel's chief Washington correspondent, Jim Angle, reported as fact on Nov. 2 that the Democrats saw "the same intelligence reports" as the administration.

ANGLE: Democrats charge administration officials exaggerated the intelligence in order to sell the war, but in late 2002, Democrats, using the same intelligence reports, issued statements almost indistinguishable from the president's.

A Nov. 3 Wall Street Journal editorial claimed, "The scandal here isn't what happened before the war. The scandal is that the same Democrats who saw the same intelligence that Mr. Bush saw, who drew the same conclusions, and who voted to go to war are now using the difficulties we've encountered in that conflict as an excuse to rewrite history."

But this claim is bogus.

As The New Republic reported in 2003: "Senators were outraged to find that intelligence info given to them omitted the qualifications and countervailing evidence that had characterized the classified version and played up the claims that strengthened the administration's case for war."

According to Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA), many House members were only convinced to support the war after the Administration "showed them a photograph of a small, unmanned airplane spraying a liquid in what appeared to be a test for delivering chemical and biological agents." The magazine reports that the U.S. Air Force told the Administration it "sharply disputed the notion that Iraq's UAVs were being designed as attack weapons." But Congress didn't know the USAF opinion at the time it voted.

And what about the spin that "everyone" thought that Iraq had WMD? Not true.

The Washington Post reported in 2003 that the International Atomic Energy Agency and the United Nations each repeatedly told the Administration it had no evidence that Iraq possessed WMD.

For example, in March 2003, the Associated Press reported that "U.N. weapons inspectors have not found any 'smoking guns' in Iraq during their search for weapons WMD." AP also reported, "U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix said his teams have not uncovered any WMD." A month earlier, IAEA Director Mohamed ElBaradei said nuclear experts have found "no indication" that Iraq has tried to import high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge enrichment of uranium.

***

Who's at fault when it comes to pre-war "intelligence?"

Conservative pundits and administration spokespeople will spend a lot of time over the next few weeks flailing their arms and pointing fingers at anyone they can. Better to confuse the American people with empty conservative spin that face simple facts. Because there are plenty of facts that suggest that the White House inner circle played games with the "intelligence" at the time, in order to scare Congress and the American people into supporting this war.

***

This item first appeared at Journalists Against Bush's B.S.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. You have got to be fucking kidding me?
Mr. Flip Flop on the reasons for war himself? How many reasons for going to war have we had so far? 30? 40?

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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think he means to say, "Truth no longer matters."
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. He's not part of the "reality-based community."
So, of course it doesn't.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Did he mention hate week yet in his speech?
"On the sixth day of Hate Week, after the processions, the speeches, the shouting, the singing, the banners, the posters, the films, the waxworks, the rolling of drums and squealing of trumpets, the tramp of marching feet, the grinding of the caterpillars of tanks, the roar of massed planes, the booming of guns

-- after six days of this, when the great orgasm was quivering to its climax and the general hatred of Eurasia had boiled up into such delirium that if the crowd could have got their hands on the 2,000 Eurasian war-criminals who were to be publicly hanged on the last day of the proceedings, they would unquestionably have torn them to pieces

-- at just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally."

Chapter 9..1984
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. I loved that part
where the man giving the speech is handed a note about the change, and goes right on with it like nothing happened. Just changes his entire speech from Eurasia to Eastasia and keeps on going.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Well, didn't he say the Dems were rewriting history?
I guess also the new enemy is not communism but islamic/fascism
Big brother is not rewriting history it is the democrats. I'm trying to keep track on this
"truth" thing. Well, got to go and teach a class in room 101
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush's words in the debate:
As a senator you are one vote among many as a president you are the one who is responsible. (it was a slam on Kerry at the time.)
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. I missed that line in the debates. What a pompous jerkoff...
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 12:45 PM by ComerPerro
Just when I think I couldn't loathe that asshole any more...



EDIT: And as Governor, you're just in charge of some stupid ass, backwater state. And look what you did to ruin that state, you alcoholic moron!


That's why I don't run for office.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Baldfaced lie
Only the select Senate Intelligence committee saw the specific intelligence given to go to war.


Lying bastard.
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Boys and Girls, Can you all say PROJECTION?
Whatever they say we're doing, is exactly what they're doing. Every time.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's Dem's BEST ANSWER that no Bush apologist can refute -
Keep it simple, Dems.

It doesn't matter what old intel Clinton was reading, or what new intel Bush was fixing....it was all INOPERABLE the moment that weapons inspectors went into Iraq and started reporting back with ACCURATE, REAL TIME FACTS.

Bush invaded Iraq even after REAL TIME FACTS showed that military action was NOT NECESSARY.

Keep it simple. They have no answer for this fact - NONE.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. "Military action was not necessary". That's it.
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Nordic65 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
72. This should do it...
"On March 20 2003 President Bush gave the order to invade Iraq"

A very simple, yet incredibly powerful statement that's irrefutable and almost impossible to justify in light of the horrific consequences.


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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. WHAT DID THE INSPECTORS FIND?
Spot on blm that is it. Remind them (sen.McCain gould use a refresher) that it doesn't matter what was said before the IWR vote or the 1441 vote (it really does but lets just say) all that matters is that there was nothing there and everyone knew it.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
55. And why can the GOP state chapter and verse about the previous
administration when no one seems to be able to recall who they met or what they did in this one?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. EXCELLENT reply...will borrow it and use it.
.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Any Dems out there today to get ahead of this or are they
all at Veterans Day events. Is someone minding the store?
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. In VETERANS DAY speech -- shame! And he accuses Dems...
of playing politics with war!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. And than when the democrats come back and tell the truth
all the republicans will say "support the troops" and "now is not the time to play politics" or some other nonsense.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
66. Compassionate Conservative our Pres is
His whole tyrannical speech was pure arrogance and slamming the Dems he insulted (not patriotic) into voting for his IWR. Hey, he is the puppet and corps and billionaires run the country. Same for most of the government. Heard that somewhere yesterday and deep down feel it is nothing but the truth.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good luck, Georgie.
We got you on tape.

We got all your liars on tape.

You lied in public. You lied in the SOTU.

Powell lied in the UN.

I remember seeing a skit where a guy is in bed with a girl and his wife comes home and starts screaming. The guy and the girl get dressed, make the bed, and deny deny deny that the wife has seen anything. Well, it worked in the skit. Life in America has been like that skit for way too long.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
51. I think what the democrats should do
when we finally do hold hearings is just play video's of all of Bush's lies and flipflops. Play lies and flipflops of Condi, Powell, Wolfowitz, Rummy and the whole gang. Just play that and that's all.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is a 100% LIE, you can't spin it or nuance it
LIAR!
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. The Bush politicization of Veteran's Day. Do we have a
new precedent from this president? Political attacks on a day meant to honor those that honorably served, from someone who didn't serve honorably?

The world is upside down.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. no- our world is not upside down
and yes this is something new
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. its an old but effective argument--
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. well, we are trying to rewrite history
to make sure accuracy and the truth get in there this time.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
80. That's true
I hate to come this close to agreeing. Fitzgerald started the job they should have done much earlier. At some point they may have to admit that.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I know, I know
I'm just trying to see it in a positive light. I am so sick of these liar scumbag inhuman thugs.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. he really smacked it to the Dems in this speech!
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SledDriver Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Which is exactly the way that the media whores will present it...
"President Bush fired back at critics today during a speech in front of..."

While completely ignoring the fact that he used a speech in front of a (screened) military audience on Veteran's Day to attack Democrats instead of honoring veterans.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. The same intelligence?
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SledDriver Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Our troops deserve the support..."
So let's cut funding to VA hospitals, reduce their benfits, and make them pay their own medical bills when they get injured.

What an asshat.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. I can't remember the last time I screamed FUCK YOU that loudly...
... at my television.

That lying sack of excrement. Never have I been more disgusted with him.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. you are not alone. don't worry everyone knows it's BS.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. yes !
all those soldiers buried in every grave yard across the world that died defending the right of people to disagree have died not for democray but for the george bush republican party!
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. I honestly didn't think the asshole could sink lower
Taking a day dedicated to all the people who have ever served in the forces and then telling them that over half the country hates them.

This fucker never ceases to amaze me.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. Back in 2003, though, Dems who opposed going to war were attacked
by administration officials and conservative pudits because "they don't have the same intelligence that we have access to".


So which is it?

Those lying motherfuckers.

And the worst part is, they are getting away with it.

Now, "They had the same intel that the White House used" is the new talking point, replacing "They don't have the same intel that the White House does".


How the fuck do they keep getting away with this?
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Excellent point-READ THIS
I guess the spin really does mess your head up.

That would be funny if it weren't so sad.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. The dems need to smack them with this shit.
Hit 'em and hit 'em hard. Call them on their lies and spin. I think the media might even like dirty brawl right now.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. I had forgotten that whole, "we know stuff we can't tell you" aspect.
That's what made the allusions to a nuclear attack on an American city so effective. No one knew what they knew.

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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
34. Interesting point by John King on CNN
He said during Bush's speech, he was exchanging emails with a Republican strategist. The strategist used strong language, and told King, "If you're quoting your opponent in the election that you won a year ago, you're pretty much toast politically."
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. So why are we sitting around here letting them define us and
the message? It's kick ass time again. It's take no prisoners time again. Hell, no! The vast majority of Dems do not support BUSH'S WAR. Dems do NOT sit in positions of power. Dems do NOT control the agenda or the committees or the administration. RUB THEIR NOSES IN THIS CRAP!!!

WHERE ARE MY REPS AND SENATORS?
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Village Idiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
37. "Dems are trying to rewrite (revised) history!"
More like it.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. Yep, like at recent press conference with Scotty
Where he said "absolutely" and the transcript said, not an absolute, or something close.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
38. SOP for the GOP - project your mistakes on your opponent.
Then when the opponent cries foul you hope it will all go away in a wash of confusion.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
39. added the exact quotes....
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. well, let's take a look at the environment before going to war
with the aid of the media, if anyone went against this administration after 9/11 they were said to be "aiding" the enemy. They were not patriotic. The patriot act was "bullied" in and so was the war. a majority of vehicles were supporting "china" made American flags and nationalism was extreme. The media was complicit in spinning "you're either with us or against us", and they were making sure that every American knew who the "political" enemies were. Don't tell me Congress was not "intimidated" into going to war. Remember the Anthrax attacks? It was like there was no FBI, no CIA, no law enforcement to protect anyone. Oh, let's let the anthrax attacker slide because it was only a "one time" event and he was trying to make a message, see we're not that protected. Unfortunately, he attacked democrats, postal workers and the media. To me, that's more of a shot across the bow, to come into line or see what we can do to you. Maybe I'm wrong, but look how it was investigated? It was intimidation pure and simple.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. You LIED to those Dems, you KNEW you were lying, sadly they believed you.
George is playing blame the victim, again.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. AS A LAST RESORT you fucking moran
they voted to go to war as a last resort...once the weapons were found.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Huh? They didn't vote -- once the weapons were found --
They voted after they were told the weapons were found (important distinction, I think) -- and they should not have believed * -- I didn't believe * for a second because I knew about PNAC, I knew how devasted Iraq was after the Gulf War (thanks to reading "Fire & Ice" by Ramsey Clark), and I read Will Pitt's articles about Scott Ritter and went to see Ritter speak - he was damned convincing.

Of course the Dems MUST state very, very clearly and loudly that they were lied into war -- and they must apologize to us for having been so gullible. Byrd didn't buy it. Kucinich didn't buy it. John Edwards has apologized for his vote.

I don't want * getting away with this disgusting distortion of truth/reality - and I want the Dems to do more than just blame *.

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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. My understanding is the resolution they voted on said the let the...
...inspectors stay in Iraq and find the weapons and only go to 'war' if Saddam wouldn't disarm.

No one was claiming they "found" weapons.

They were saying they "knew" he had them.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
78. Oops - I think I misread your post -
You meant, I now think, that Congress okayed war if weapons were found - when they were found - once they were found...

I thought you were saying that Congress signed only after the weapons were found -- that is that the pRes was saying that he know they had them - they had been found (already, before Congress signed).

My bad.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. Clearly, Clinton's Penis is responsible for Georgie's Mess'o'Potamia
Jesus...He's off his goddamned rocker (or meds).
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
45. Freakin bastard
:mad:
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
46. Will there be a Dem response to the speech?
I really hope so. Is the Senate in session today? I'd love to hear ol' Ted smack it to him.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
75. No Seante today...
but Kennedy, Kerry, and others have already issued responses.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
48. Bush IS Right
In-so-far as that all of the assholes who voted to invade a sovereign nation which was of no threat to us - Democrats, Independents, Republicans, whatever - have no more, and no less, honor than he.

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. But who CREATED those intelligence reports for the Senate???? WHO???
YOU! YOU AND YOUR LYING SACKS OF DOG SHIT NEOCONS!!!


:mad:
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
52. No, they didn't have the SAME intel
They had your cherry-picked intel, you lying scumbag.
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
53. who had access to the same intelligence
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 01:43 PM by cmd
See how he scoots around this one? The dems had access to the same intelligence. He didn't say who had access to the same intelligence I did. I want to hear the whole truth, not a half truth, bully boy.
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Poet Lariat Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
54. Bush rewrote the book on "deeply irresponsible"
``It is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how the war began,'' Bush said.

Almost every word he utters these days can be used against him.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
56. Of course Dems have been saying that repubes are rewriting history, BUT
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 01:52 PM by SoCalDem
the media barely quotes us,so the "credit" for saying it, will go to *².. Ole Karl is still in the saddle, creating those buzzwords.. Watch for the "rewriting history" comment to echo across the land....spouted by EVERY rightwing wouthpiece:puke:
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
57. You know we are re-writing history
Basically before this last year history was basically filled with bad information (fueled mainly by the white house) on our reasons for the war in Iraq. DSM, Libby leak, the findings of the UN inspectors... have now all confirmed each other. Our information on the true history is now much better than even a year ago. So it's ok to re-write history when the data you have received is better. History is constantly being rewritten because we are constantly gaining information. Does the Global war on terror line work on anyone these days? That was so 2004. What next is Bush going to challenge Kerry to a game of Magic: The gathering.



President Bush forcefully attacked critics of the war in Iraq on Friday, accusing them of trying to rewrite history and saying they are undercutting American forces on the front lines. "The stakes in the global war on terror are too high and the national interest is too important for politicians to throw out false charges,"
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
58. blame the other for what we do. they rewrite history. from day one
they are so good at rewriting history now a days, it doesnt even get to the point of history as they re write.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
60. POLITICAL speech before a MILITARY audience. Inappropriate. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
61. Bush is trying to rewrite Bush's history and
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 02:50 PM by ProSense
Dems are trying to prevent him from destroying it.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
62. He is not defending his decisions but instead attacking those who agreed.
That is a very weak position to be in. In other words, he's saying so what if I was wrong because everybody agreed with me.

Leave aside for a moment all the intelligence that was manipulated and withheld. Assume, for the sake of humoring him, that everyone did have the same intelligence. The crux of the issue is that he still refuses to take responsibility. It's always someone else's fault. That is not the mark of a leader. That is the character of a spoiled privileged brat.

When dealing with Repubs, who always seem to act as if they own the high road on character, point out bush's major flaw: no sense of personal responsibility. There has never been one single solitary instance in bush's life of accepting personal responsibility for anything he has ever done or anything he has ever said. Even with Katrina, he wishy-washed about if FEMA could be proven to have been incompetent he would admit accountability.

In short, bush is simply not man enough to accept personal responsibility for his actions.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. exactly
he outsources responsibility. it's a good corporate move for a business-like WH running on the Enronian model, unfortunately it conflicts directly with the Marlboro-man advertisting scheme. The fact that this is an "All the Chimps Men" problem makes them all the more likely to seek "responsibility outsourcing" as a rational business move, because they are both delusional and know no other way.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. he outsources responsibility--good way to put it, S&B.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
63. And this from a bunch of people who think Hitler didn't start WWII - but
Woodrow Wilson did!

As always - they project themselves onto their enemies. They have been running around & myth-making and "re-historing" for 20 years.

Bullshit - admit it Bush you were delusional megalomaniacs. You stopped anything that could have proven the facts on the ground of Iraq. Saddam offered elections in a year. Rove told the Brits they had until 2004 to sign onto the war in Iraq (hmm - what was up in 2004 so that Rove needed a war?).

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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
65. Bush politicizes Veterans Day to lie to everyone.
I can't put into words how much I hate that low life Son-of-a-Bitch! :grr:
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
68. Hey Bsh - this is a day to honor our VETERANS! Not use them for
political gain.


YOU MAKE ME SICK!

When I say I support our troops and am thankful for our veterans, it has nothing to do about politics. I say it because I am an American first, a democrat second.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
70. Well, there it all goes. Bush has won,...again
All the Dems had to do was get out in front of it right off the bat. First thing this morning they could have held a news conference.

It's too late now. The news cycle is all about Democrats rewriting history and Bush is back in front of the issue.

DAMNIT ALL TO HELL!!!! THE DEMS COULD HAVE OBLITERATED THE ARGUMENT BUT THEY DIDN'T!!!!
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. one problem, latest poll this morning says that 6/10 believe * is a liar
so no worries, a vast majority know this is all bull shit.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Two words will be repeated ad nauseum in connection to the Democrats
all weekend long.

Get ready for it, the Democrats are "reqriting history".

They got their talking point out there and that's all the talking heads will use all weekend long.

We've lost it because the Democrats failed to organize swiftly when they needed to.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
74. Every word that comes out of his mouth is a LIE
What about the lies about the reasons for going to war!! LIAR LIAR LIAR.

They DID manipulate the intelligence. This guy is a real piece of work.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
76. We're not the ones
who are claiming that the Founding Fathers were fundamentalists who intended for America to be a Xtian theocracy, that Saddam Hussein and Bill Clinton personally piloted all 4 planes on 9/11, and that Bush was actually elected
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
77. So fucking what? Who listens to a damn thing he says now besides...
...freepers and the minority of religio-nuts who still think the earth is flat and that god shit out Adam and Eve?

Dems did the right thing by not glorifying anything that idiot said with a response. I'd rather see them work on Libby and Rove and not be distracted with what puppet boy says.
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