Should Spanish classes be mandatory for all elementary students

[napi21]

beginning with kindergarden? That's Jack Cafferty's question for this hour.

Apparently, there's a proposal in Fl to make that law. If passed it would take effect in 2006.

Send your thoughts to [email protected]

I can tell you that I think it's a GOOD idea! Very young kids learn foreign languages much easier than HS students or adults. I'd like to see it adopted nationally.

[kenny blankenship]

1. Second language requirement-yes

Mandatory Spanish no.
Mandating Spanish would stir up reaction among the usual demographics. Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to choose?

[AspenRose]

145. Agreed

Although there is a growing Hispanic community in New Hampshire, for example, I'd be willing to bet the majority would choose French, by virtue of geography (sharing a border with Canada).

And perhaps Hawaiians would choose Japanese.

[CottonBear]

2. Yes. Most all European students study English starting in grade school.

For most people, it's the only way to really learn another language well.

edit: Several languages should be offered: Spanish, French, Italian, German and Chinese for instance.

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. Most Europeans know at least three other languages as well as English...

It's because of the close geographical locations in Europe from one country to the next, it's because of history and it's because of business, the international language of which is English, BTW. Only to teach mandatory Spanish is ridiculous. Why not French, in deference for those at our North Border?

[FreedomAngel82]

147. When I was in high school

we had the choice of three different languages (I graduated in 2001) which were Spanish, French and Latin. Most people choose Spanish I believe and French second. There's a private school here that offers German. I think there should be multiple languages as well. My brother learned some Spanish when he was in elementary school. I don't think he remembers anything since we don't speak it or live in an area that speaks it a lot.

[NNadir]

3. American linguistic weakness makes us a weaker competitor.

When one is in an international business meeting, everyone speaks English. The ability to speak Chinese, Japanese, French, German, Spanish, etc gives competitors to option of discussing topics during meetings in such a way as to exclude most Americans.

I don't know that Spanish should be the language, but it is very clear that the use of foreign languages is an important skill with which Americans are far too weak.

[calico1]

19. We are one of the only countries where one main language

is spoken though not "officially." And when most Americans travel abroad they expect to find English speaking people rather than try to learn some of the language of whatever country they are in. There seem to be a lot of Americand who are hostile to learning any other language besides English. I do think we should make English our official language but it would really enrich us if a second language skill was taught in schools.

[WiseButAngrySara]

4. I think it's a stupid idea. All adults in this country who vote, however,

should be required to have a mastery of the English Language! This Spanish Language crap has gotten way out of hand! I'm SICK of it! This is not Mexico. The first language should be ENGLISH.

[calico1]

14. Well, since the largest growing minority group

is Hispanics I don't think Spanish is "crap." I do think its a good idea to make English the official language (which it isn't by the way).

[CottonBear]

18. I have to respectfully disagree.

America is weakened by its citizens lack of foreign language skills.

No one said this was Mexico. Almost all of South America, except for Brazil, speaks Spanish. The Canadians speak French and English(Do you ever hear the Canadian Prime Minister switch from French to English at a press conference?)

I was at a party in Munich a few years ago. I speak a little Spanish (I took a year of Latin and 4 years of Espanol in High School but I need a refresher course now.) Everyone there spoke two or more languages. A Mexican woman living in Germany spoke both English and Spanish with me. I was at a total disadvantage. I could only speak in English and missed out on much interesting conversation.

[Maddy McCall]

26. God knows that we don't want our children to be more accomplished

or to learn about other cultures.

:eyes: :grr:

[calico1]

31. In Puerto Rico you are taught English from

kinder garten through college. It is a requirement. You also learn Spanish. Of course this is more due to the fact that Puerto Rico is a territory but even so, most people there can speak English at least enough to get by. And many learn to speak it very well even though they have never lived here. Yet it does not affect their Spanish skills. And as you point out, in most other countries people can speak more than one language. Here in this country it seems like a badge of honor for some people to refuse to know anything else but English.

[WiseButAngrySara]

55. I am by No means against language instruction of any kind, and yes it

would be wonderful, but it should not be only Spanish! I have been to Europe, and they speak many languages by necessity, because of geographical proximity, business and history. We haven't had that 'need' forced on us in the States, yet. And why, one might ask, is the state Florida, which doesn't even share a physical border with Mexico, the 'chosen state? This might make more sense in Texas or California, though I know the Hispanic population is large in Florida as well.

[calico1]

63. Florida has a very large Cuban population. n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

72. Exactly! Cuban. Not Mexican. And I just bet that some of Jeb's buddies

are sponsoring this, and will somehow profit. Like they always do. Why Florida? And why JUST Spanish?

[tx_dem41]

67. Why do you think ONLY people from Mexico speak Spanish???...

psssttt...Florida has a large Cuban population as well as South American population.

[WiseButAngrySara]

95. See #72. I am NOT as stupid as you seem to believe I am. I have many

friends from Mexico, from Brazil, from Puerto Rico, from Argentina, from Cuba...all extremely educated, and speak fluent English and Spanish and in many cases other languages as well.

My question remains: Why Spanish only in a Cuban population, and Jeb's state? All language is fine. Mandatory Spanish in Florida is not a good idea.

[tx_dem41]

100. Ummmm..Brazilians speak Portuguese. n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

120. Ummmm..I suppose you converse with them in that language? The Brazilian

that I know speaks English, to me and to every other human that I've heard him converse with. But, then again, I'm certain he knows Spanish as well. What languages are you fluent in other than English (and perhaps that might be debatable).

[tx_dem41]

121. Spanish, French, Russian...

I have also taken, but would not consider myself fluent, in Italian and Hebrew.

Oh...and I have taken Latin.

[WiseButAngrySara]

132. Well, you are an exception. I have taken Latin, Spanish, classical Greek,

and French, and I'm not fluent in one of them.

[IntravenousDemilo]

57. You mention our PM speaking both English and French at press conferences.

You know, if 2004 had turned out a little differently down there, you could have had a President that does the same thing. Oh, well...

[Ignacio Upton]

78. That's because the people in Quebec would get pissed off

If Martin didn't. In the United States, we are not a leagally bilingual country and it's not exacty like Hispanics in the southwest will form their own separatist party (although there are some nutjobs out there who want to take Texas and California and make their own exclusively Spanish-speaking country. Aztlan and La Raza have talked about waging demographic warfare to make the southwest mostly Spanish-speaking, although this won't work, IMHO, because U.S. Hispanics are assimilating with non-Hispanics to certain degrees, and come to America for economic opportunity and betterment.)

[CottonBear]

91. Oh, don't remind me. *cry, sniff, boo hoo, snivel* n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. English is not the national language

hell the US is the only nation with no official language, look it up.

That said, we do need to start tachings kids one or to other languages... globalized economy and all, or you telling me that american kids are somehow less intelligent than OTHER kids?

[WiseButAngrySara]

64. What? How did you possibly draw this conclusion from what I've written?

you telling me that american kids are somehow less intelligent than OTHER kids?

I might question YOUR intelligence by your conclusion, but not "kids"

[SmokingJacket]

103. And we should have a second. It's great for kids to have two

languages. Knowledge of a second language helps English proficiency, among other things.

And Spanish makes the most sense. Maybe French should be the second language in Louisiana and parts of New York and Maine that have French-Canadians in them.

[Matariki]

142. HA! this isn't ENGLAND either.

[babylonsister]

5. Chinese might be more appropriate. nt

[pmegan]

11. Indeed

[deadparrot]

12. I went to a Catholic high school,

and one of the nuns who worked overseas teaching English at a primary school in China. She said that the kids always asked her, "When do American kids start learning Chinese?"

[babylonsister]

20. It's a valid question, and will become more

important as kids today reach adulthood. But did you take Chinese, deadparrot? It would intimidate me because you have to master a whole new language concept to learn it. In my case, I doubt you could teach an old dog new tricks! :)

[deadparrot]

34. Oh, absolutely not.

All the different elements that go into Chinese would make it extremely different from the romance/Germanic languages. The five different tones, plus the complexity of the alphabet would be really tough for kids to master, especially when they hadn't been around it since birth. God knows I wouldn't be able to. :)

[SmokingJacket]

105. Yet somehow, so many Chinese manage to learn English.

It would be a mind-bender for us, but wow, how interesting.

[CottonBear]

114. Many Chinese and Hindi people in GA speak English & also Spanish

in addition to their native languages!

[calico1]

122. I don't know about you but I find this

embarrassing as hell. :blush:

[CottonBear]

151. My local Indian convienience store clerk (Mr. Patel) & Chinese waitress

both speak their native tongue with their friends and co-workers, English with me and then switch to Spanish with our Mexican immigrant residents. :wow:

I was amazed. Four years of high school Spanish, a year of Latin and a conversational German class, not to mention traveling abroad, have left me with no means to converse in Spanish in other than a rudimentary manner.

:eyes: I just did not have to use my language skills. They did.

[deadparrot]

148. In all honesty, I don't think it's that simple.

Do American kids need to learn a language other than English? Absolutely.

However, the massive number of characters in the Chinese alphabet, not to mention the five different vocal tones, make it more complex than languages in the typical western alphabet. I simply think it would be a much, much harder language to teach (and much, much harder to find teachers FOR) to a bunch of six year olds. I suppose it's true that kids' brains are most elastic when they're young, but I think the concept of a whole new alphabet with tens of thousands of characters, not to mention five meanings for one word depending on the tone of your voice, would be more difficult to teach than a language that is at least partially based on their native language.

[calico1]

110. And yet many Asians from all countries come here

as adults and learn English. I guess they must be smarter than us.

[NewJeffCT]

123. Speaking Mandarin is way easier than writing it

Writing the language is almost all about memorization, doing it over & over again until it's burned into your memory. And, then doing it some more. That is how Chinese children learn to write - pure memorization.

The Mandarin language doesn't really have tense, so it is simpler than English that way.

[Qibing Zero]

6. I would have liked it, myself. Nowadays, I find myself awfully lazy.

America seems to do it's best to stay closed off from the world (helps with the propaganda, that's for sure). Learning a second language would do wonders, as 2 years of half-assed language in HS does next to nothing.

Can we also have our passports be our main form of ID like actual civilized countries and not cost insane amounts of money to get? Pretty please?

[calico1]

7. I think a second language should be offered

but a choice of languages should be offered not a forced one.

[SlipperySlope]

8. Spanish - No : Second Language - Yes

A second language is a useful skill, and language learning abilities may influence other learning abilities.

But why on earth should Spanish be mandated?

[IntravenousDemilo]

71. Because more individual countries speak Spanish as a first language

than, say, Mandarin Chinese, especially in this hemisphere. More actual people speak Spanish in this world than, say, French -- and I say this as a Canadian who had to take French for six years, but ended up taking it for ten years (as well as German and Latin at university). If Spanish had been offered, I'd have taken it, too. Now I'm teaching myself Hungarian, which is tough as well as more or less useless, just for the intellectual exercise.

Hell, I probably would have studied Mandarin, too, had it been offered, but then I just like languages.

[calico1]

113. I wouldn't be for making one particular second language

mandatory but you are right. Common sense would tell you Spanish would certainly be more useful than Mandarin.

[pmegan]

9. Why Spanish?

I agree that kids should start to learn a second language as early as possible, but I don't think that it's appropriate to have a state law mandating that it be Spanish. I wouldn't even mind a state law mandating a second language, but I think that parents and/or districts should have some say in the matter.

[Der Blaue Engel]

29. Spanish is the second most commonly spoken language at home

in the US, according to the US Census data for 2000 on Wikipedia. English-only households make up 82% of households, while Spanish is spoken by nearly 11%. All other languages are less than 1%, nationally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

[pmegan]

40. Okay...

Okay... but don't you think that one of the perks of being able to speak a second language would be to use it while traveling to other countries? To have a strong connection to your heritage? To be able to read great literature in other languages? Sure, Spanish might fit the bill for any or all of the above, but it's certainly not the only language that would. I don't think that a state mandate specifically mentioning Spanish is a good idea.

[Der Blaue Engel]

42. I'm just conjecturing as to why they would suggest Spanish

In addition, this is a Florida proposal, not nationwide.

[pmegan]

56. Well, I know why they chose Spanish...

... because conservative hispanics are one of Jeb's biggest and most loyal bases.

I just don't think that there should be a state law mandating a specific language. I think that such decisions should be left up to the local district.

[Lost-in-FL]

61. Ding... ding... ding!!!

There are lots of French Canadians and Haitians (which by the way, they speak mostly French), Russians, Croatians in Florida. Why Spanish? It will actually hurt more than helping minorities adjust to living in the United States.

[calico1]

66. Most Hispanics vote for the Democratic party

with one exception--Cuban Americans. And this is because of the whole history which I am sure you are familiar with. Jeb's Hispanic base is composed of mostly Cuban Americans. Most other Hispanics that live in Fla vote Democratic.

[pmegan]

76. Perhaps, parhaps not

"Hispanic Republicans outnumber Hispanic Democrats by about 100,000 voters in Florida."

From here

Google also came up with this article (which is rather old), which is much vague but says that 1 in 5 Florida residents is of Hispanic descent, and people of Cuban descent "dominate" those numbers.

[CottonBear]

81. Cubans are an exception. Many of them were Bautista supporters.

Of course they love the BFEE.

[calico1]

93. Once again.... the Hispanics in FL

are largely CUBAN. They outnumber all other Hispanic groups. And again, they are the exception. They vote largely Republican. Cubans do vote for Republicans in heavy numbers though from what I am reading the younger generation is not as hardline as their parents which is a good thing. But Cubans are not ALL Hispanics. There are Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and people from all over Central and Latin America. "Hispanic" does not mean only Cuban. To use the numbers in FL where most of the Hispanic population is Cuban as a representative of the entire Hispanic population in this country is grossly inacurate.

[Mass]

10. A second language Yes - Why Spanish necessarily?

I can understand why in Florida or California, but here is MA, I am not sure that there is a good reason to oblige kids to learn Spanish.

At my son's school, they start a second language in 5th grade. they have 4 languages the first year (chinese, spanish, french, and latin, one each term), them from six grade on, they chose a language and go on. I think this is a good solution if the school can afford to offer several language.

[Mend]

15. there are so many excellent Spanish/English speaking people

here that it seems redundant to me to make everyone learn that language....I hope they offer a variety of languages. I had eight years of French and two years of Russian...no Spanish.

[SW FL Dem]

16. I paid extra for my son to take Spanish in kindergarten

through second grade in an after school program in CA. I would gladly have paid for it once we moved to FL but it wasn't available. I think it is a great idea. Kids learn languages much more easily than do adults.

[Ron Green]

17. Yes, and Spanish is the best choice.

It's spoken by a very large fraction of US residents, it's linguistically different enough from English to offer another "world view," and it's the main language of South America, the part of the world with whom we most need to mend fences.

[CottonBear]

21. Spanish is a Romance language so once one learns Spanish

then it is easy to understand and learn Portuguese, French and Italian!

[Ron Green]

25. Exactly. English is Germanic, and Spanish covers the other bases.

[calico1]

46. Well, I would say somewhat easier.

I speak Spanish fluenty and many people I know assume that I can totally understand any conversation in Italian, Portugese or French. I can't. What I can do is kind of follow the conversation somewhat. The one I understand best next to Spanish is Portugese. I can pick up the most from that. But most people that know me think I could understand Italian the best. Not true. Some words are very similar but many are totally different. But yes, I certainly can pick up more from any of them than if I only understood English.

[CottonBear]

50. At least it's easier to read maps, signs, menus and communicate

when traveling in Romance Language countries! I take phrase books with me. However, Spanish and Latin were no help to me when I went to Czechloslovakia (when it still existed). Everything was written in Cyrillic script! :eyes: Oy!

[calico1]

69. I agree with that.

I remember one time some years ago a coworker asked me if I could understand something written in what I think was Japanese! He said with a straight face "well since you speak another language I thought maybe you could understand at least SOMETHING!" :crazy:

[maddezmom]

28. agree, with you

We lived in Peru for the first couple of years of my daughters life and she is fluent in Spanish.

Most Widely Spoken Languages
in the World
Language Approx. number
of speakers
1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000
2. English 514,000,000
3. Hindustani 496,000,000
4. Spanish 425,000,000
5. Russian 275,000,000
6. Arabic 256,000,000
7. Bengali 215,000,000
8. Portuguese 194,000,000
9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000
10. French 129,000,000
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775272.html

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[CottonBear]

38. Why do you "shudder" at the idea of learning French?

Why do you feel overwhelmed? Why do you think that immigrants don't learn English? It is the second generation rather than the first that becomes fluent.

Democrats welcome people of all backgrounds and nationalities to the US as both temporary workers, permanent residents and prospective citizens.

Did you realize that the Spanish discovered and settled North America? The French came next and finally the British.
New Orleans was founded by the Spanish and the French. So, the Spanish and French were here first.

Many Mexican immigrants to the US have both Spanish and Native American blood. So, that means that WE non-Hispanic, non-Native-American Europeans and others are the newcomers. Think about it.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[CottonBear]

85. We need bi-lingual eduaction and ESL classes for immigrant children.

On this we can agree!
Welcome to DU :hi:
We are quite passionate. Be prepared to defend your views and statements as you may have found out!

[Lost-in-FL]

109. BINGO!!!

:party: :party: :party: :bounce: :toast:

[Der Blaue Engel]

73. "These" people?

Once again it seems like our pathetic politicians and country want to cater to these people.

Is everyone here completely unaware of the fact that a large portion of the western states was populated by the Spanish before we took it over? Spanish is not a "them" issue. It is an "us" issue. There are other areas of the country, as well, that were populated by non-English speaking people well before we "acquired" them, notably the French in New Orleans (but we don't have to worry too much about that one anymore).

It disturbs me how myopic Americans can be. The majority is often expressed as being the only valid thing, whether it's language, color, sexuality, or religion. It makes me sad to think we'll never get beyond this.

[Lost-in-FL]

88. Remember TEXAS and CALIFORNIA...

were part of Mexico... Part of the reason some Mexicans (older generations) living in those areas REFUSE learning English. I am not making this up, I actually know people that if they don't have to they would not speak English.

[Der Blaue Engel]

90. Well, then if we all spoke English and Spanish

that would no longer be a problem. :)

[Lost-in-FL]

108. The problem is not "not learning" a 2nd language...

We cannot teach a second language here in the US were students cannot write an intelligent 500 word essay in English. That would be a disgrace for both languages if you ask me. I am NOT for mandatory Spanish education but for students who would be given incentives for having a second lenguage and speak fluently by learning it on their own (inside the classroom, giving funds to the school to create a program, etc.)

[Der Blaue Engel]

117. I'm not for mandatory Spanish either

I'm just not automatically against it. But I do think that a second language should be a required part of American children's education.

And I disagree that a second language can't be taught because of the failure to teach English. Both can be taught. Both can be learned. Learning a second doesn't make learning the first harder, it makes it easier.

If we had proper funding for education in this country, and incentives for quality educators, this would all be so much easier.

[Lost-in-FL]

128. By the way... I am biligual...

I do not agree with the fact that a second language can't be taught because of the failure to teach English... It is because of failure to teach anything or because of LOUSY teaching in our schools. I learned ENGLISH and my own and not taught by the public school system. I learned english by making the fool out of myself and being corrected constantly. But I won't go there... Maybe it is tough love but I ENGLISH should be mandatory.
Even by globalization making things much easier now it is sad to see how many people is reluctant to learn a new language and that goes the other way around, were non-english speakers are very confortable not learning English because there will be "someone" there to take care of them.

[Der Blaue Engel]

143. English is mandatory for children in the public school system

Regardless of their primary language. Isn't it? I thought that was a given.

[Xithras]

131. No, every child should learn English and Latin.

English because it's the language our government uses in its internal operations and because the populace needs to understand its language to effectively choose its leaders. Latin because once it's learned, all of the Romance languages (including Spanish) are trivial to acquire afterward.

Personally, J'ai appris le français parce que I preferred it to Spanish. I didn't much care about its "usefulness" in the US, but it was my second language of choice.

As to any "necessity" of learning Spanish: I've lived my entire life in a part of California where more than half the population is Spanish speaking. I've never, not once, been in a situation where my lack of knowledge about Spanish was a problem.

[pinto]

115. What's wrong with Spanish? it's the second most spoken among US citizens.

(aside) I don't think we're being "overwhelmed" by Spanish speaking immigrants, and I don't think we are "catering to those people", and I don't think recognizing the presence of Spanish speakers in our country is "repulsive".

I'd support parental choice in a language requirement, but not on the grounds you state.

One of the benefits of multilinguism - being fluent in more than one language - is the awareness that we are a multicultural world, and, yes, a multicultural nation...May not be the way you'd like it, but, there it is.

Another benefit is the added mental "agility" multilinguism develops, especially in young kids. Kind of like learning a new skill, y'know? And we're all for new skills....

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AngryAmish]

23. Most rich kids learn Spanish from their nannies

Other kids should get a chance.

[Lost-in-FL]

24. Why not make ENGLISH and INTELLIGENT DESIGN mandatory?

Come on... this is AMERICA!!! :+

[shenmue]

27. No

:thumbsdown:

[Lost-in-FL]

35. I agree with you... I think we shouldn't...

That would be an incentive for spanish speakers not to learn English even when English is the language of the United States. I think this is much more political than anything and it doen not help anybody.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Tell me exactly where it says that English is the official language

I'm serious

[Lost-in-FL]

44. No where...

Must Americans speak English... It is the language of the Constitution, and Bill of Rights and is the language in the Floor of the Senate and the House of Representatives. Bills which become laws are written in English... do we still need a paper saying which one is the official lenguage of the US?

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Most nations have official languages, the US legally

is among the very few that doesn't

That said, we NEED to taech kids more than one language, and this is a particular American allergy.

By the way, trivia, German came this close to being voted our official langauge.

Dos spracth deutche?

[eggman67]

102. The German thing is a myth

"By the way, trivia, German came this close to being voted our official langauge."

It was never even suggested.

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm

[pinto]

30. I like the idea. Would be fun for kids and demographically, Spanish

is the second most spoken language among US citizens. Not to mention we share the hemisphere with millions of Spanish speaking people.

[DanCa]

32. A fundie language requirement is speaking in tongues :)

However in all serious I think a second language requirement is cool. Allthough I think kindergarten might be pushing it alittle.

[calico1]

53. The younger you learn the better you learn.

That is why it is so difficult for adults who immigrate here to learn English while it is much easier for their little children.

[Book Lover]

33. I say go straight to Latin

I have found that, though I have never studied Spanish, that I communicate with Spanish-speaking folks pretty darn well using my Italian and Latin.

[CottonBear]

43. Everyone at my high school took a year of Latin in 8th grade.

At least one year of Latin and a year of Greek should be mandatory in order to understand and speak English properly.

If one knows the Latin and Greek roots, prefixes and suffixes then one can easily figure out the meaning of unfamiliar words!

[WePurrsevere]

137. Actually I agree. I took Latin in HS and it has helped more then...

I could have imagined at the time. B-) Since it is a "root" language it can help with figuring out the definitions of many English, Italian, French and Spanish words.

I took French in HS as well and sadly have forgotten most of it as has my husband. My eldest DD took four years of Spanish and was rather fluent but she too says she's forgotten most of it in the 9 yrs since she graduated. Of course now that we're living on the border of Canada my husband and I rather wish we could remember more of our French and my DD wishes she had taken it instead of Spanish... it would probably help her get a decent job up here.

Actually other then I tend to feel that many of our children (as well as adults) need to learn to read, write and speak decent English first ;) a second language is not a bad idea BUT IMO it should be ENCOURAGED, not forced and from a choice of a few. Although demographically Spanish is widely spoken all over the country, from what I've heard and seen up here Canadian French would be more useful. B-)

[Der Blaue Engel]

36. A lot of people are wondering "why Spanish?"

Well...this is in Florida. It seems obvious to me. :shrug:

In addition, see my post #29 for US demographics info.

[ReverendDeuce]

39. No, here's why... (call me a Republican if you want but hear me out)

I'm 100% all for encouraging the learning of a second language as a means for which students can explore different cultures and languages.

However, I believe that making any second language mandatory is an absolute mistake.

I took German for four years in high-school as well as a French for one year (I took two language classes in one year). I was decent in German when I graduated. Today, I can't speak a lick of it other than a few basic words and phrases.

Unless we're going to make the *use* of a mandatory second langauge mandatory as well, forcing students to learn Spanish without a future plan for its use is a waste of funding that could be used to help prepare students for something far more valuable.

I'd rather that money go to helping teach immigrants speak English, which, you have to admit, is unquestionably the dominant language in the United States and much of Europe.

[CottonBear]

45. Why Spanish? Because there are millions of Spanish speakers

in the US with whom we can practice! Let's not forget almost all of friggin' South America! (Brazil speaks Portuguese.)

I took four years of Spanish in High School in Tennessee in the late 70s to the early 80s. I forgot most of it because, util a few years ago, I had no one to practice with.

Hello! We live among and in close proximity to tens of millions of Spanish speakers! Probably hundreds of millions if you include South America.

[ReverendDeuce]

47. And they live close to 300+ million English speakers... your point?

If we're going to mandate that our kids become fluent in Spanish, they need to mandate that their kids become fluent in English. Where does this kind of nonsense end?

[CottonBear]

59. Second Geneartion immigrants becomne fluent. It's a fact.

It's what happened to my friend's family. His parents immigrated here from Argentina by way of Israel. The grandparents speak little English, but do speak Russian and Polish (they immigrated from those countries during the pogroms) and Spanish. The parents speak Spanish, Hebrew and English. The children (my friend) speak Spanish and English.

Being as well-educated as the other citizens of the world is in no way "nonsense."

[calico1]

62. Its the adult, first generation people who have

difficulty learning English. Second generation will learn it much better. No different than if you moved to France or Italy with a small child. You would have a hard time learning the language but your child would not.

[Der Blaue Engel]

49. Learning a second language is mandatory for admission to most

colleges. So it would help prepare students to be eligible for college.

I'm not stating an opinion on whether it's a good idea or not, a Democrat idea, or a Republican idea; I'm just addressing the possible logic behind the proposal.

[ReverendDeuce]

54. This is fine... but then, I ask, why Spanish? Why not French? Esperanto?

n/t

[CottonBear]

65. The same reason that most British people study French:

France is a huge country and it the closest non-english speaking country close to the UK. Students have to take a foreign language and many choose French. The Queen speaks fluent French.

No one is saying we shouldn't have a discussion about choice of language but there is an issue of which one is the most useful here in this hemisphere. It's the same reason why other countries teach English: It's the best choice if you have to chhose one to teach.

No one is saying you can't learn another language too!

Adios mi Amigo ReverendDeuce! Hasta luego!

[calico1]

118. I would say it depends on where you are. If you

live in VT and make a lot of trips to Canada, French might be more useful. If you live in CA or TX then Spanish would certainly be more useful there. I already know English and Spanish but if I were to try and pick up a 3rd language I would certainly pick one that I could make use of.

[napi21]

74. I took 3 years of Latin and 2 years of German & 1 of Russian in HS.

It was a very long time ago! You really can't speak Latin, that's why they call it a dead language, but it does help a lot with English because of it being the root of so many words.

They taught German different'y then. First, it was a mandaroty class. They really didn't teach you to speak it, they taught you vocabulary and sentence structure. After 3 years, I couldn't speak it back then either!

Russian was an elective, and was taught via a TV class broadcast over PBS. They taught that very differently. Sure yu had to learn vocabulary and sentence structure, but the teacher also taught you to speak the language in a conversation.

I think it's a terrific idea that very young children be taught a foreign language, and I think Spanish is a great start.

[IntravenousDemilo]

48. Of course!

Interestingly enough, learning another language helps you immeasurably with learning your own, even if you don't become fluent in the second language. And god knows that would be a good idea. I've seen more than enough crappy English on the internets.

[goddess40]

51. YES.YES.YES.......

I know I'm yelling but to wait until high school is too late for many kids. We are the only major country that is too arrogant to teach a second language. Americans seem to think that we are so important and everyone should speak our language.

Language uses a different part of the brain that if you don't use it you lose it - for some that window of learning is closing by the time they start school and it is shut tight by the time they leave grade school.

[tamtam]

52. Funny thing is

My four and two year old already know quite a bit of Spanish (Dora the explorer). My eight year old knows quite a bit of Japanese; his best friend is Japanese. I think a second language should be offered but not mandatory. I don't understand the animosity towards learning spanish. The more your children know the better.

[calico1]

60. Have your children forgotten how to speak English?

Do they have difficulty with the English language because of the Japanese and Spanish? My hunch is, no. Your children will have a great advantage over their English only speaking peers as they get older, if they keep up learning the second languages. Learning another language or any other skill makes you better, not worse. I just don't get the strong resistence among so many people to learn more languages besides English. Especially the younger people who can learn better. Like it or not we are in a global economy and that is not likely to change. With most people from other countries knowing more than one language and us resisting it will put us at a disadvantage eventually. Already does, imo.

[Lost-in-FL]

68. I do not think is resistance, I think it is reluctance...

... to the idea of speaking one language over the others. We are indeed discriminating. Are hispanics better than other? Why not French? or Russian? Chinesse? I just don't see why. Kids have problems with English as it is now and the low scores are blamed on the fact that kids of immigrants do not speak english. Why not "better" the teaching of the English language in school?

[CottonBear]

77. Why not teach English, LAtin, Greek and a foregin language.

This is what was taught in my (private girls) school.

Education in the US ia far behind that in other countries.

My Croation friend (now applying for US citizenship) speaks fluent Serbo-Croation, German and English. Her schools in Germany and (what is now) Bosnia were ten times harder than the US high school which she attended. She is now attending GA Tech in Atlanta. She went to one of the supposed "best" (read mostly white and wealthy) high schools in GA. She said even the honors and advanced placement classes were no where nearly as demanding as the European schools that she and her sister attended. She cruised through hogh school with top honors while the native born students whined and complained.

The state of our public educatuion is a fucking disgraace.

[Lost-in-FL]

82. I agree with you 100%...

My reluctance with this measure is the fact that our school system is in serious trouble. Hey... some cannot even accept evolution and now you want to teach them Spanish??? Please... give me a break!

[CottonBear]

98. All we have to do is cut the defense budget and fund schools instead.

We spend more on defense and war than all other countries combined!

[Lost-in-FL]

116. You got it...

A violent and dumb society... starting to look like it's president... Something must be done.

[calico1]

83. There are definitely many problems in our

educational system and our current government likes its people stupid so as long as they are in power that won't change. But...if our education system were good, do you think second language in the curriculum would be a good idea? I think it would be because the younger kids are the easier and better they learn.

[Lost-in-FL]

92. It would be a great idea to teach a second language...

but not in this actual "crisis" in our education system.

[tamtam]

104. I don't get it either

My son's teachers says his vocabulary is above average. I take pride in knowing my little girls will start Kindergarten knowing basic Spanish. Most of the children in my son's elementary school are bilingual because most of the parents are bilingual. Living in California you get your mix of different cultures and languages. I think the animosity comes from the illegal immigration issue.

[calico1]

126. I think you are right.

If you can't do anything about the issue, attack the language. Hey, whatever works, right?:eyes:

[CottonBear]

70. Why the animosity toward learning Spanish you ask.

Well, maybe some (many) people are xenophobic or racist and they express their feeling by denouncing Spanish as a second language.

Maybe many people are illiterate or are poorly educated and cannot read and write in English properly. The fear is based in their own ignorance.

Maybe some people are very ethno-centric and have no desire to ever learn another language or about another country.

Consider how Faux News has demonized the French.

[Ignacio Upton]

75. No

English is the language spoken by most Americans. We should not try and force people to speak Spanish if it is not our prinicple tounge. However, immigrants should also have to learn English. They should be forced to join the existing structure of this country, not the other way around. Sorry if I sound xenophoic, but having one language is the most practical way of doing things in this country and least hassle.

[calico1]

84. So do you thing speaking anything but English

should be banned?

[Ignacio Upton]

97. No, but balkanization is not a good idea

I honestly don't see America getting along well with two principle languages. Historically, most multi-lingual countries end up having ethnic independence groups and riots. Look at the Austrio-Hungarian Empire as an example. Romania today has the same problem with Hungarians living in their borders. Switzerland is an anomaly though, and Quebec has had unrest in the past. In 1995 they almost voted for independence. There's not enough tolarance on either side for this to work.

[CottonBear]

89. Have you ever been to Canada, Mexico, South America or Europe?

Everywhere else many languages are spoken. French is the official language of France but many Frenchg citizens speak other languages too!

[IntravenousDemilo]

101. Seeing as how you love English so much,

it's "principal" (adj), not "principle" (n); "tongue", not "tounge"; "xenophobic", not "xenophoic"; and "the least hassle", not just "least hassle".

This is not to criticize just for the sake of doing so. I just found your statement amusingly ironic.

[Ignacio Upton]

107. Sorry, I can't type very well

I have lousy fingers :)
I don't want to do something stupid like ban other languages. In many high schools in this country, a second language class is already mandatory. My only concern is the fact that why should people have to learn a language that is primarily spoken by hispanic immigrants who are trying to assimilate themselves? In the early 1900's, there wasn't talk of having kids speak Italian or German or Yiddish or Polish, and the descendants of these groups got along fine. Two of my great-grandparents came to Ellis Island from Austrio-Hungary in my great-grandmother's case (she was Czech) and my great-grandfather was from Norway. They got along fine, and the only way they talked to each was through English since they came from two different countries.

[IntravenousDemilo]

127. Oh, OK then.

I only wish they'd had French immersion in the public schools when I was starting school, and I wouldn't have had to wait till Grade 7 to start taking it. I grew up in Saskatchewan, far away from the bulk of French Canadians, and I never had a chance to practise my French outside of class. Well, there goes any hope of my having a national political career, unless I really bone up on the other official language of my multicultural country.

No, the reason Spanish is particularly useful is, for instance, what if someone wanted a career in the diplomatic corps, or would like to be posted by their company to some nice warm Latin American country? They'd have a much better time of it if they could do business in the language of the local population. This is not to mention the fact that you DO have a lot of Hispanic people in the States, and it would be wise to recognize that. Spanish is as useful to you guys as French is to us.

[Ignacio Upton]

134. I agree that a foreign language use is practical

but in our country there has been a history of immigrants coming and learning English (which is my reason for being against it). Also, there is a lot of paranoia and nativism among some in this country over Hispanics in general. You wonder why there the Minute Men group is patrolling the borders? It's really about Mexico more than anything else. Many on the right fear that Mexicans are coming into this country to do demographic warfare (Lebenon and Israel/Palestine were/are acts of this, but there is no proof of it in this country). Since the American Southwest used to be part of Mexico until the Mexican War (which, contrary to popular belief was not the "big bad collosus of the north" fighting weak Mexico. Both armies were actually roughly equal, and a number of Americans thought that we would be lucky if Santa Anna didn't take Arkanas and Louisiana after the war) there are a number of fringe groups of Mexican descent who want to break the southwestern states off and make them into an independent country or seek reunification with Mexico, a la Serbian seperatists in Bosnia before WWI. Conservatives are paranoid about this and have often gotten into nasty scuffles at protests between these fringe Mexican-American groups and fringe conservative groups. It's also racism in gerernal against "those brown people."

[IntravenousDemilo]

135. I don't like the whole "melting pot" thing.

It's a foreign concept to me. Up here, we tend to think of our society as a "mosaic", in which all the colours retain their brightness and excitement while adding up to an intricate design, rather than all being melted together into some bland greyish brown.

[calico1]

138. The interesting thing is that we don't have a real

melting pot in many ways though many people like to believe we do. Generations removed from the immigrants that came here at the turn of the last century, Polish, Greek, Italian, Irish, Chinese, etc. Americans continue to keep their native foods and some other customs. They lost the language, but not some of the other things, especially the food. Hispanics by comparison are a new immigrant group so they also have the food and customs but they also still have the language and the stong ties to native country, unlike most people from older immigrant groups. Apparently, it seems that many 8th, 10th or 12th generation Americans either don't really think about this or want Hispanics to disregard this fact.

[Ignacio Upton]

139. We're technically all immigrants in that way

Even the Native Americans are. They "immigrated" here from Asia and possibly from Polynesia during the last Ice Age.

[calico1]

136. I hate to tell you this but racism against those

"brown people" is not going to go away because they can speak English And as for the history of the immigrants (Italian, Irish, Polish, etc.) they have been here for so many generations that they have lost their original language. Hispanics are not anywhere near that point as many of them still go back and forth freely to the native country and keep the ties strong.

[calico1]

133. In the early 1900's the white, anglo

majority in this country had no reason to want to learn the language of the immigrants whom many considered lesser classes of people. Italian and Irish Americans for example are not considered minority groups today but both were so at the turn of the last century. And they were legally discriminated against. "No Irish need apply" was a common thing you would see for job applications. That is one thing. The other is that from the immigrants of the turn of the last century to today you have many generations of people totally assimilated. The thing about many Hispanics that most people never consider is that it is a comparatively very recent immigrant group. Not only that but with travel and communication so much easier today many keep the ties with their respective "old countries" whereas I only have a couple of Italian and Irish American friends who have ever gone back to the "old country" and even they have long since lost any contact with any relatives they might have there. Also the language is lost with my Italian friends (except for some curse words, LOL). The only thing that seems to remain strong is the food. Mexican Americans, Puerto Rican Americans, etc. can and often do travel back to their roots, keep contact with relatives, keep the ties. One of which is the language. I just don't think its fair to compare these immigrants and also the Asians, Russians, etc. that we get today with the immigrants of the early 20th century who usually never went back once they got here and who have since been through multiple generations who are completely assimilated.

[tallahasseedem]

80. I believe a foreign language should be mandatory.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Spanish. But the fact remains that the public school systems dont have enough money to fund the most basic programs so this seems to be a non issue at the moment.

[brentspeak]

87. And beginning in elementary school

Preferably, first grade.

[Der Blaue Engel]

86. I think everyone here should educate themselves on the English-only

movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-only_movement

Its history is interesting.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

94. A second language should be mandated, not necessarily Spanish.

I'd think most kids would go for Spanish because it's so pervasive here and the fact that it's the easiest foreign language to learn. Personally, I'm trying to re-learn the Spanish that I took in HS and college.

My parents immigrated here from India in the '70s. When they were children ('50s and '60s), their education system mandated THREE languages -- English, Hindi and their specific "state" language. And that was 40-50 years ago in a "third world" country. I know we can at least catch up.

[xchrom]

96. this will be a spanish speaking country in the not to distant

future.

sooo do or don't -- it's gonna happen anyway -- why shouldn't states get their kids ahead of the ball?

[pmegan]

111. Why?

People say that all the time, usually with as an alarmist anti-immigrant cry. But I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind it.

Care to ellucidate?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

129. Maybe, maybe not.

In the area I live in, which is Southwestern New Mexico, many of the younger generation don't understand Spanish at all. I'm 21 and when I was in high school only about 20% of the Latinos there could speak Spanish.

[Cleita]

99. Well, I had to, but then I was going to an American school in Chile.

It's true that kids learn it much better at a young age. By the time I went to high school I was equally fluent in both languages. But why just Spanish? I had a friend who attended the Lysee Francais in Los Angeles and French was a large part of the curriculum. She spoke it fluently and had at that time never been to France. Another friend of German ancestry sent her kids to German school on Saturday so that they would learn German and the history and literature of their ancestors.

Since Spanish is becoming a mainstream spoken language in this country like French is in Canada, wouldn't it be better to be able to communicate with each other? I know some people don't want their kids marryin' em, and believe speaking the language will lead to this, but it's really ignorant to think that way. Hormones speak no languages but the language of love.

[SmokingJacket]

106. This thread has brought out a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment.

Very, very interesting.

[CottonBear]

112. I noticed. It is disturbing. n/t

[ebal]

119. Florida State Constitution

Already says English is the official language of the state.

but you wouldn't know that down in S. FL.

[B Calm]

124. Si!

[NewJeffCT]

125. A 2nd language should be mandatory

but, it doesn't have to be Spanish. I think Latin would be great, as would Mandarin Chinese. Hindi would be useful, too.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

130. Second language requirement, yes

Spanish,no. I would urge my children to learn Spanish but I don't think that should be the only option.

[Horse with no Name]

140. Before I read another post I will answer

but education has never hurt anyone.
Being bilingual is a wonderful thing.
I think this should be instituted nationwide.
Perhaps only replaced by French in the Northern states.

[NYdemocrat089]

141. A secondary language should be required in elementary school.

Spanish would probably be the best, but really any language is good.

[FreedomAngel82]

146. Maybe late elementary

I think maybe fourth or fifth grade would be good. In high school you usually have to choose a foreign language and most people in my high school got Spanish (mostly cause it was easy they said). I didn't have to take a foreign language but I will sometime in college.

[DemGirl7]

149. In my Elementary school, I was taught Spanish

I started to learn Spanish since the 4th grade,on and off from that point, until I dropped it for good in my 2nd year in college, I wasn't really that good in the class academically, It was my major weak point.

[carolinalady]

150. Yes! n/t

[Davis_X_Machina]

152. Why Spanish?

Quebec is 3 hours away.