Religion Hijacked! I was listening to Jimmy Carter on NPR...

[johnaries]

Like Jimmy, I was raised as a Southern Baptist. Although I later found a different spiritual path, Jimmy reminded me of how the Southern Baptist Convention of today is the exact opposite of the SBC of my youth.

When I was a Baptist, we were one of the most Liberal Christian groups. As Jimmy pointed out, back then there was no central "creed". As he said, not only was every church autonomous, but every MEMBER was autonomous.

I can remember when I went to Sunday School that there was an emphasis on a "personal relationship" with God. Individuals were encouraged to "find their own answers through prayer", using the Bible as a guidebook - but not as a literal source. I remember a lot of discussions within the Church itself , but I also remember the Church encouraging discussion.

When did the SBC change from one of the most Liberal and Open churches to one of the most Close-Minded and Fundamentalist?

I remember attending some of the Billy Graham Crusades. He was very inspiring - he preached Hope, Love, and Understanding... and Forgiveness. He would keep the service going as long as there were people "coming forward" who needed help.

I also remember attending some of the early James Robinson "Crusades". He also preached Hope, Love, and Understanding... but mostly he preached "titheing" and "donating". In fact that was the first time I remember hearing the phrase "give until it hurts". He would keep the service going as long as there wer people willing to give more money.

I was "under the spell" at the time - it wasn't until the Jim Robinson Crusade sent me mail notices requesting more money that the "spell" was broken.

I guess I'm posting this as part "warning" and also as part explanation. I was born and raised as a Southern Baptist. Although I later followed a different path, I still cherish many of the teachings that of the SBC that I received as a child.

I don't know where the current SBC came from - it has somehow been corrupted into the opposite of what it was.

The price of freedom is constant vigilance.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. WEll I am not sure when it all happened but the American Baptists from

whom the SBC has broken away is still much as you described your memories of the SBC. (I think, unless it is another Baptist group I am thinking of)

Anyway here is an interesting statement on the breakaway:

http://www.abc-usa.org/news/20040621.htm

[Yoda Yada]

2. New book..ENDANGERED VALUES

I saw President Carter on Larry King tonight. He is promoting his new book, ENDANGERED VALUES (can't remember the sub-title.) He talked about his Christian faith and how it differs from what we hear coming from the White House today. He thinks the Iraq war was manipulated by the Bush administration and that he knows Jesus, as the"Prince of Peace" not the "Prince of War". He believes that there is a reason for the separation of church and state, and that this administration has done more harm to our country in the last five years than anyone else in the past 150 years. This sounds like a book I'd like to read.

[Ladyhawk]

6. JC has it pegged. Unfortunately, when he was defeated by Reagan,

THAT was the real beginning of what ** has brought to fruition. I can't believe I watched it and didn't understand at the time what was happening. I saw it from the inside, as a fundy.

Fundies are scary precisely because they have given up their reason to authority figures.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."-- Carey Goldberg. "Why Are We Here?" International Herald Tribune, Paris ed., no. 36,125; Monday, Apr. 26, 1999; p. 10.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. It really started during Reagan's time. A small group of people

from with the SBC were able to get themselves up in power and basically hijacked the denomination - that's when all the "boycott disney because they have subliminal sex in their animated movies" and "boycott disney because they give health benefits to gay partners" and all the other bullshit.

Southern Baptist Seminary also went from a good school (though certainly conservative) to a fundy-idiot school.

A friend of mine - a very gay friend - was Southern Baptist, and went to southern baptist seminary in the early 90s, and left. Ended up going to a GOOD seminary, and is now a minister in a different denomination.

But yes, the SBCs tended, mostly, to be a good group of people. And overall, I believe they still are. Unfortuantely, a small group of conservative nutcases were able to gain power and take the denomination over.

[Ladyhawk]

4. My parents attended a Southern Baptist Church when I was small.

I feel they were led astray by characters like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. They were dysfunctional before the Reagan era, but for some reason, they became more and more right wing with each passing year as the fundamentalist movement overtook the nation.

Looking back, I can see that my family was always ultra-conservative, but some slick politicians and fundamentalists preyed upon them, turned their faith against them.

I have come to the conclusion that those who will believe in a literal interpretation of the bible are predisposed to be gullible in other respects, especially where it concerns authority. Fundies are taught to respect authority far too much. They check their brains at the door and blindly follow any yahoo who says, "I believe in Jesus." :(

My fondest hope is that people like Jimmy Carter can talk some sense into those who have been led astray, but it may already be too late.

[Up2Late]

5. Excellent interview, he talks about a lot of interesting stuff...

...and stuff that I was never taught about Southern Baptists (I was raised Roman Catholic).

Posted about it at this link: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2218008&mesg_id=2218008>

[Hissyspit]

8. Four of the recent changes in So. Baptist organization Carter mentions...

- Development of a creed everyone has to sign on to
- Declaration of subservience of women
- Doctrine determined by leaders of the church
- Change in the believe of the importance of keeping church and state separate

Fundamentalists stole the church against the desire of many of the members.

[oldlady]

7. My Boss is an American Baptist Minister

though he isn't leading a church-- his career-long focus has been issues of poverty. We had a regularly scheduled staff meeting on September 12, 2001 & when the group began to talk about the horrifying details, my boss said, "well, I won't be surprised to hear that our government planned the whole thing". I was dumbfounded. Really. The thought had not remotely crossed my mind. I was kinda freaked out actually-- thought he was a bit of a nut.

Fast forward four years-- I've read and learned so much that now I'm the one people are afraid to hear speak in meetings...weird world.

[kevinbgoode]

9. I suspect their denominational power grab

was likely conducted the same way in which the American Taliban uses stealth techniques to infiltrate every institution and then, as they gain more power, purge those who suddenly realize what these people are really all about.

I would bet this happened in state after state, church after church. . .just as it has in school boards, town halls, county government now.

[Zen]

10. Jimmy's got that right.

Crazy folks have taken over - yikes!

[madfloridian]

11. Two of the main characters in the hijacking.

Rev. Richard Land

Rev. Al Mohler

We left our Southern Baptist church over the war.

It is not the same.