Okay, I'll say it.

[geek tragedy]

If all Fitzgerald comes back with tomorrow is false statement charges against Libby, then this has been the most overhyped story since year 2k computer speculation.

Your average civil lawsuit contains multiple incidents of people lying their asses off. The reason they don't get caught is that they don't have a prosecutor verifying each and every statement they make under oath.

If there was no evidence of a criminal release of a CIA agent's name, if there was no evidence of a criminal conspiracy, if they couldn't even catch Karl Rove in a lie, then we've really been wasting our time with this story.

Now, I could be proven wrong, and all of those *breaking hard* stories from Raw Story et al may be right.

But, if tomorrow comes and Scooter Libby, a nasty little crooked reptile, goes down for false statements and that's all that happens, then we need to move on to other issues.

This is all turning out to be rather anti-climactic.

[wookie294]

1. It appears tomorrow Fitz will mainly say ''I need more time''

to investigate.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Keep believing it

tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow...

[wookie294]

6. I'd be happy to see the grand jury extended into Election 2006

Bring it on, I say!

[geek tragedy]

9. More time to investigate what?

More time to investigate a borderline perjury charge?

If that's all he has left on Rove, meh.

[wookie294]

11. Uranium-Niger fraud, Cheney and Bush

I believe Fitz has uncovered a wider plot to lie to America. He needs an additional 12 months to investigate it.

[crispini]

13. I hope he does.

But he's had two years-- one would think that would be enough?

Not that I'm complaining, especially if he indicts another buttload of people right before election day 2006. :evilgrin:

[wookie294]

14. But Fitz uncovered NEW crimes in the last 2 years

That's why he needs an additional 12 months to extend the grand jury. I think the NY Times article about Rove not being indicted tomorrow is good news!!

[geek tragedy]

16. We'll see about that, but I'm not holding my breath. If he couldn't

even nail a snake like Rove in an obvious lie (yeah right he heard about it from reporters!) then it would seem that the Bushies did a much better job of circling the wagons than we suspected.

It appears they played "Pin the Blame on the Scooter."

[geek tragedy]

15. I'll believe it when I see it.

For now, the Supreme Court and Iraq will be more worthy of attention.

The Plame leak dies as a relevant story tomorrow.

[formernaderite]

26. I don't think so.....this is Fitz's hey I did something

and here's what I found...Libby lied about some stuff. Ah well, I stopped getting my hopes up November of last year.

[Wordie]

30. Well, for starters...

Even though there are now claims that the Niger-yellowcake-forgeries were perhaps concocted by a person for financial gain (and that story, to my knowlegdge, has not been confirmed), or perhaps by someone in the Italian gov't (but why?), it still is puzzling why (again, according to "some sources") that when they wound up in the hands of the Admin, nobody vetted them, nor did listen to the CIA regarding their veracity. If they then presented this information to Congress, which they MUST have known was false (they had been told), isn't that lying to Congress?

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Agreed

Perhaps we should start talking issues with voters rather than salivating about some supposed "Fitzmas" miracle?

[Earth_First]

8. Another SC nominee is around the corner, and Iraq still burning...

the old fallback issues.

[geek tragedy]

10. And Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff and runaway deficit spending.

There are 100 reasons why the Republicans should be thrown out of power.

[crispini]

12. After the holidays will be the time to really start working

on the election. Your average voter is not paying attention right now anyway. Plus, primaries in March! A good place for a dedicated activist to build a list of Dems in their precinct. :D

[Botany]

17. Damn

I agree with the O.P. if this is all Libby on perjury then I
give up ...... "they" lied us into a war. I hope Rove is singing
and that other people go down but as of now T.T. .....
the turd blossom walks.

[crispini]

21. Pssht. What's the point of giving up, Cuddles?

Wait and see what Fitz has to offer.

And we need to do what the Republicans do, anyway: Grassroots organize. Do you do any volunteer work for your local county party?

[Botany]

24. Right now I am working for

www.reformohionow.org

I hope this is just internet talk and that bush and company get
theirs in the end and that Libby isn't the one to fall on his sword
and those evil bastards get off the hook.

I saw too much in Ohio over the last year to have no doubt to
the real power that bush crime family has. Hell we crushed bush
in this state ...... we were organized ..... we did turn out the vote .....
I worked @ Kerry's State HQ and we had republicans who voted for
bush in 2000 come and work for Kerry because they were so turned off
by bush ....... (btw did you see the screen saver I posted from Lucas County
in the KOEB?)

Organize we ..... need a fucking revolution ....... Good people are being
sent to their deaths in *'s God Forsaken war that sooner or later
will produce an Islamic theocracy. And Rove & company organized
lies to get us into that hell hole ...... when will justice get to him?

I hope Fitz is squeezing those bastards and Rove is singing but I
doubt it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. The problem is deeper

We keep expecting an epiphany moment (Election, Fitzmas, 2000 dead, etc.). There is no epiphany moment. This isn't a narrative. We have to make moments, not wait for them like on some TV drama.

The ridiculous behavior regarding Plamegate is sign and symptom of this deeper problem.

[geek tragedy]

19. We need a movement, not a made-for-tv special. eom

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Ding ding ding

Everything that has gone on on these boards this week tells you everything you need to know about the lack of Dem success. I hope it changes.

[crispini]

20. Well, yeah, but who is WE?

We, the grassroots leaders down here at the bottom of the food chain need to focus on what we can do best -- network with our friends and neighbors and build vital precinct organizations so that we can really GOTV in November. And that work can really get rolling in January, not much point in starting that now. Everyone will be too busy with the holidays soon.

Now, if you're referring to our Democratic leadership in Washington... well ... I don't have Harry Reid's ear, so... :shrug:

[brentspeak]

25. It's the same mentality that drove the National Guard story

People uselessly spent time blogging and posting about every little tidbit concerning Bush's National Guard service and the 60 Minutes report. It did absolutely nothing to damage Bush and nothing to help Kerry. A complete waste of time and energy.

Chasing scandals and rumors of scandals is self-defeating when it comes to winning office. Only active campaigning for candidates amounts to anything. This whole "Fitzmas" business was silly to begin with.

[Leopolds Ghost]

27. The jujutsu advocates feel its safe to come out again

Thank god, none of those transformative issues, and none of that "down and dirty scandalmongering" like the Republicans do. Let's focus on being the Party of Adults and concentrate on the Issues -- subsidized HMO Health Care, perhaps, or a minimal increase in the minimum wage, or reimbursing New Orleans blacks for the land that was (hasn't yet been) stolen from them. None of this "he lied us into war" rabble-rousing.

[Earth_First]

3. I'll be the first to say: I hope you're wrong...*however*

nothing amazes me any longer...

[geek tragedy]

7. Actually, I hope I'm wrong too.

And don't get me wrong--having Scooter indicted is a big stain on this administration.

But Pat Fitzgerald isn't going to bring down the corrupt Republican machine.

That's our job.

[Triana]

4. Zactly...

....I warned against expecting too much. I'd LOVE to be surprised and wrong of course.

[Straight Shooter]

22. Fitzgerald's specialty as a prosecutor is terrorism.

Do you really think for one minute that he's going to let the bush administration get away with their outing of an agent and her cover (Brewster Jennings) which specialized in tracking WMD? I don't think so.

I believe he will continue to trace the forgery which created the basis for lying a gullible Congress and public into war.

Let the chips fall where they may tomorrow. Fitzgerald isn't God, and if the Grand Jury didn't have the fortitude to agree with him or he believed with his knowledge and experience that a jury at trial would not convict based on the evidence, then it's wise to stop right there with an indictment of Libby. Speculation is strong that he will continue to investigate Rove, and, I assume, others as well.

Remember that a friend of his said, "There is no such thing as a minor crime as far as Fitzgerald is concerned." This man has been at this game a long, long time. You can't spin straw into gold.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

28. I often agree with your posts

This time, though, I see things differently.

Tomorrow - or whenever the indictments are made public - will not be the end. It will be the start of the trial phase. A highly publicized, resource-draining trial that will involve many administration officials as witnesses, if not as defendants.

As John Dean pointed out on tonight's Countdown, even one indictment will embarrass and debilitate the White House. A trial, even for one lone Libby, will reopen examination of the administration's reasons for going to war. And that discussion will reverberate well into the '06 campaign season.

I have no idea how many indictments will be handed down, but I don't think a judge would have agreed to imprison Judith Miller over mere perjury. That's why I still hold high hopes for the outcome of this investigation. Even if it falls short of my expectations, it will still be a success.

[geek tragedy]

33. Don't get me wrong--this is a bad thing for the WH and Neocons.

But, this isn't some liberal holiday either. Small potatoes compared to Abramoff.

[LunaC]

29. Relax

The Bush/Cheney/PNAC Cabal got to where they are entirely through smoke and mirror lies and deceptions.

Fitz is the Zen Master of seeing through the illusion and exposing the Reality. It's what he thrives on...it's his passion! I sense that he's all about honor & integrity...right and wrong...truth and justice... and the Bad Guys are an insult to his character and dignity. It's personal for him. He's never let them get off with a wrist slap in the past and I don't expect things to be different now.

Cheney's going to be included in the first wave of indictments and when Fitz empanels a new GJ and all is said and done, Cheney and the entire PNAC will be exposed for the treasonous, money-grubbing criminals they are. I have THAT much faith in Fitz!

And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he doesn't come up with a couple of zingers tomorrow that no one anticipated and we may very well ooooooh and aaaaaaah over his brilliance for weeks to come.

This is just the opening act...

[DemonFighterLives]

31. Oooh, I hope you're right

This waiting to run out the clock crap is killing me. We need some blood in the water. Someone has to be punished for these high crimes and misdemeanors.

:bounce:

[cynatnite]

32. If that's what we get, how do you think Libby will plead?

If it's not guilty, we'll get a nice juicy trial with some great witnesses. Cheney getting on the witness stand under oath has a lot of appeal.

If he pleads guilty, he's out of there. No way he can stay at the WH. Even if he claims not guilty, he's probably out of there.

I want a trial. I want the witness list to include, Rover, Condi, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney and best of all...bush.

The very idea of it just gets me all giggly inside like champagne tickling my nose.

:toast: