Why do some people think the Democratic Party cannot take criticism?

[kentuck]

Constructive or otherwise? No, you can't criticize the DLC. No, you can't criticize the liberals in the Party. No, you can't criticize Hillary's run for the Prsidency. No, you can't criticize Al Gore. No, you can't criticize Howard Dean. It only helps the Republicans. It doesn't matter if some truth or something constructive comes from the criticism, we should simply bite our tongues. This is not the time for "free speech". We need to get on the Party wagon. Otherwise, we will continue to lose.

And so on and so on. But, I am inclined to believe that differing opinions sift out all the crap and we are left better for it. Let's discuss the arguments and the candidates on their merits. We and they will be stronger for it. I have confidence that when faced with the "real enemy", we will stand together.

[Loonman]

1. When the Democrats no longer screw up

I will cease my criticism.

[Deep13]

2. How dare you say that!

Freeper! DINO! etc. etc. :evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

3. you dont like a democrat, and truth just no longer matters

if a dem votes on one vote, this group feels strongly about,.....then doesnt matter what work the politician does, or what is accomplished, it is simply dismissed. i dont think that is productive. i really want repug destroyed. it isnt constructive. i can do constructive. what i see on the board is destructive

[kentuck]

5. See !

Something constructive already.. :)

[seabeyond]

8. lol lol lol lol...... oh that felt good. thanks kentuck

you are the best. oooosh

[Solly Mack]

4. Because they take it personally

Some people tie their own self worth up in a politician - they identify so closely w/a politican they like, that if you disagree with the candidate on anything, then you're attacking the supporter.(in their mind)

it's pretty sad.

[bryant69]

6. Why do some people have a hard time with criticism of their criticism?

Actually I agree with this except as regards to excessive negativity.

Criticizing to make things better is one thing; it's like you say beneficial and helpful. Saying the Democratic Party is fucked and we are in a fascist state with no hope, well that's not in my mind constrctive.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
Big Contest at blog - To potentially win a subscription to Salon Magazine, visit this post --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com/2005/10/contest.html

[kentuck]

10. Very well said...

And I think you having the right to say that will make people think. And that is not negative.

[Inland]

7. How's the criticism working so far? Crap sifted out yet?

Seems to me that if criticism for criticism's sake was the road to victory, we would be having less of it than when the republicans began their ascendancy in 1980, having finally come to agreement.

But it seems that the ONE thing we will never agree upon is that sooner or later, the disputes end and consensus reached and that is the position of the party.

Without that meta-understanding, there will be nothing but criticism and joined with it the criticism that the party has no coherent position.

[kentuck]

11. Yes, I think some has sifted out already...

:)
But, we must understand, no one has a monopoly on the truth. Hopefully, with open discussion and criticism, we can come closer to the truth and what we desire as a community.

[porphyrian]

15. We don't have a coherent position, except in opposition...

...to republicans. We disagree as much as we agree on things. That's the nature of diversity. However, that isn't a weakness, that's our strength. Why is the only correct position the one that's carved in stone? How unrealistic given the dynamic nature of the world we live in. We don't need a position, we need someone who can think on their feet and act quickly and correctly to the unpredictable, not another control-freak who bumbles along as soon as their predictions prove wrong and their plans are rendered useless. Change, especially rapid change, scares many of us, makes us feel insecure. We need someone can roll with the punches and still bring us out ahead.

[Justitia]

24. People forget that it is our responsibility to be the "opposition party"

You are absolutely right that we don't always need a "position" on things - that is a corner that the RW would LOVE to paint us into.
I am soooo glad that we did NOT fall into that trap over Soc Security. In response to the RWers whining "Why don't the Dems come up w/a plan??? Wah!", some very smart Dem said "We DO have a plan - it's called Social Security!"

We ARE the opposition party, it is our duty to oppose the tyranny of the the majority.

I saw a great lecture by a former Dem senator (whose name escapes me at the moment) who gave astute insight into why "bipartisanship" is not always a great idea - probably not even most of the time - and why it undermines the responsibility of our elected reps to their constituency. Although I cannot remember his name at the moment (ack!), he was a very well-respected moderate Dem. He made excellent points. He said never be scared of the RW canards of "they are always against everything, not for anything", "they are the party of "no"", "they never come up with their own ideas", etc., etc.

He reminded me that we are ALWAYS the party of Progressive Ideas and they are always the party of denying rights, constraints, restrictions and rolling back time.

[Justitia]

9. I think we are always searching for that elusive "party unity".

Achieving party unity is about as easy as herding cats.

Didn't Mark Twain say something like "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat"???

But, we DO tend to come together over the really big stuff, like Social Security.

Additionally I was impressed over how all our different factions came together after the primary last year and supported the nominee. We can debate whether that was a good thing, or whether we would do it again, but I saw real support for Kerry and that is a testament to those who really wanted to do what was best for the party and the country.

[kentuck]

14. Well said.

On the big issues, I think we are united, when it matters.

[OKNancy]

19. Will Rogers

said it.

I agree with you for the most part and will add -

Constructive criticism is not:

1. grow a set of balls
2. I'm going green if they don't do what I want ( whine whine )
3. I'm not going to vote because it's useless
4. Democrats aren't getting my money because......

and many more.

It's easy to sit on ones ass an fight the internet wars. Those who really mean a lot to our cause get out and help the ONLY organization that is going to make a difference in the long run. That is the party and the local groups and the activist groups who WIN ELECTIONS.

[Justitia]

22. Thanks for the correction, & agree w/your comments wholeheartedly -eom

[Rowdyboy]

12. I really think that some people see this place as a refuge.....

You go to work with anti-Democratic co-workers, you have Republican loving bosses, your neighbors have Bush-Cheney signs and even your own family often has Bushbots. So you go to a place like Democratic Underground expecting to find people you feel comfortable with and what do you get? Constant complaints and carping about Democrats, tearing down the party and its members at every opportunity. Nothing they do is ever good enough, no vote is sufficient, no Democratic victory is in any way significant.

Constructive criticism is one thing. Continual harping, bitching and tearing down is something else.

Sometimes this place can be as nasty to Democrats as Free Republic.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. I think Republicans

tend to think of politics as economic, basically. Dems feel it is a moral issue tied to how "good" of a person you are, how compassionate, non-rasist (that's a BIG one for Dems), etc.

So when you criticize a platform or a person in the Party, you are cutting down to the quick and criticizing their moral worth.

[Lorien]

16. Change can't occur without criticism of the status quo

one can only surmise that a large number of Democrats are content. After all, silence implies consent, and they wish to silence those who are discontented with the state of the Democratic party. I view much of what others see as "bashing" as questioning and constructive criticism, which every healthy organization needs from time to time-especially when that organization has become unfocused and impotent. It's not just the media's fault, or diebold's-the party itself needs to shoulder some of the blame for the current state of this country and needs to develop a bold vision for a better future.That won't happen without criticism and debate.

[meganmonkey]

17. Why do you hate America?

Why don't you just vote for the devil if you aren't going to agree with everything every Dem says, even when they contradict each other, and even when you're probably going to end up voting for whoever the Dems put up in 2008?

Geez!

:P

:rofl:

(on edit: I will add a :sarcasm: just in case)

[karynnj]

18. Constructive or otherwise? That is the key

All of us are here because we are partisan to some degree. We prefer ideas typically identified as Democratic to those that are Republican. Most of us have also decided we like one or more Democrats more than others and may have some that we don't like. We also wouldn't be here if we didn't care.

The constant level of NON-constructive criticism propably sensitizes people so they than react negatively when constructive criticism is given or policy discussions contrast positions. But constructive criticism and policy discussions are what should be the reason for this site's existance. As you say, sifting through different oppinions will make us stronger. Consider that after the primaries, the nominee often adapts proposals of the losers - and this is a very good thing.

I don't think we have much chance of reaching the level of civil productive debate on the merits unless people stop ugly attacks.

[kentuck]

21. Everybody wants to be God...

and create the Party in their own image... :)

[Greyhound]

20. When the Dems do something good, I always stand beside them

even if they lose trying to do something good. The problem is that they rarely even try to do good anymore (and I'm talking decades now). What we usually get is more capitulation and back-sliding in a blatantly craven attempt to remain in office.

[kentuck]

23. That is criticism...

But there is a lot of truth in what you say. Therefore, I think it is constructive. How else do we become a better Party if we fail to look at our own weaknesses?

[Greyhound]

25. Exactly, one of the biggest items is this "our issue, their issue" game

that they keep playing. Why aren't they just talking about the issue and their stand on it? Because it might cost them votes, or make it harder to run for the next office they have their eye on. And yes, I do hold them to a higher standard than the re:puke:s, because they're supposed to be on our side.