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The nuclear bomb John Kerry refused to use in the 2004 campaign:

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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 06:56 PM
Original message
The nuclear bomb John Kerry refused to use in the 2004 campaign:
"We counted on you to keep us safe on September 11, 2001 and you failed. You were in charge that day. You received a memo during your five-week vacation clearly stating the nature and urgency of the threat and you ignored it. You saw a plane fly into a building and you decided to have a photo op with children instead. When it became clear that America was under attack, you sat there frozen for seven minutes.

You can't be trusted to keep us safe. The American people deserve better."

Why did the gloves stay on? Why didn't Kerry attack Bush's incompetence?
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sidwill Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed.
It would have been a bold move but it would have resulted in media scrutiny of "Hungry Catepillar" "Aug 6th memo" "28 pages" etc....
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TerdlowSmedley Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. He made the fatal mistake of being a gentleman. He overestimated
who he was dealing with.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. He either took a dive or he's just too dumb to beat a chimp...
though I also think Kerry won before the Diebold effect took hold.
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mtowngman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Too dumb or too naive
I mean all of us. After four years of being handed all of the ammo we needed on a silver platter, we still couldn't beat the chimp.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. I totally agree on the Diebold effect; not sure about anything else...
have to wonder just WTF happened in both '00 and '04 that the Democratic candidate just rolled on over pretty much, and let these losers loose in the WH. Holy shit.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Not just the other candidate and his dirty campaigning,
but also the baseness of his base...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. I think so too
I'm sure he's learned that though hopefully.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. This oughta be good ....
:popcorn:
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mtowngman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. yeah, but...
I'm trying to study.
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Crazy Guggenheim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Welcome to DU. I've got some ......
:popcorn:
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. What's with all the Kerry flamebait today?
Is it because of his speech, or is it a convenient diversion?
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erinlough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I think it is like a child who is abused by
their father, but hates their mother for not protecting them. The democrat who had the chance didn't, in these peoples opinion, protect us when they could have, so they are bad.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:23 PM
Original message
That's the job he was trying to get...
Don't you agree?
If Bush failed to keep us safe, then can we agree Kerry failed to even try to protect us too?
He shoulda camped in Ohio, especially given the Gore/vote crap in Florida!
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. It's not flamebait, it's a very honest question.
I was a Dean guy in the primaries, but when Kerry won I was completely behind him.

Throughout the debates, every time Bush said something about "keeping Americans safe" I screamed at the television "YOU COULDN'T DO IT ON 9/11 YOU SON OF A BITCH!" and expected Kerry to say something similar. It never happened.

It seems obvious that the perfect foil to "Kerry can't keep us safe" is "Bush has proven he can't."
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. He called for withdrawal beginning in December
It appears some are afraid their anti-war message is going to be co-opted and the only way they know to respond is to dredge up other shit to bash him on.
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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. I always wanted him to do that.
But that's next to Rovian and I guess he thought he should be "better than that."
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kerry was meant to lose.
I cannot believe more DUr's did not see it. He played his role and moved on.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Explain please
?
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pox americana Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Here's the long version:
Iowa. Skull and Bones.

Am I leaving anything out?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Ohio.
..and the "next day at noon" concession.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Oh. Sorry I asked.
Were aliens involved as well? :rofl:

S & B = B & S

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. I seems that no explanation is better than a dumb explanation.
:think:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. If only you didn't have to divorce yourself from reality to contemplate it
forgetting all the man ever was, discounting anything he ever did. Discounting that if he didn't want to run afoul of his S and B brothers, he wouldn't have investigated the BCCI and gotten it shut down. Poppy had an interest in that, after all.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. It was three decades of deception just to get the Dem nomination. Makes
sense to me. :eyes:
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Agreed.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. I assume you mean that he did his part as a loyal Bonesman, right?
It's funny ... I was just talking about that with someone today.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Art Bell?
Good God almighty. We're doomed. Doomed I tell you.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Art Bell?
What did I miss ... how did he get into this conversation? :crazy:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Well, you said you were discussing it with someone
and the first person who popped into my head was the famed conspiracy theorist Art Bell.

I keed, I keed.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Oh ok. I know who he is, but ...
I couldn't figure out why I'd be talking to him. Sorry, I'm tired ... it went over my head, LOL! :crazy:

Actually, I was discussing it with my mother because Bush, Kerry and the Skull and Bones connection was mentioned by a caller on Randi's show today and my mother asked what he was talking about. :-)

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Sorry, I'm tired too. And I was getting snarky. That's uncalled for
Sorry about that.

I hate it when folks bring that up as if it's actual evidence. It's all they have, just the connection. Nothing else. No proof. Nuthin'. You have to discount an awful lot to buy it. The whole suggestion works my last nerve. I seriously thought our side was smarter and more mature than that.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Oh, I'm not mad ... it just went over my tired head, LOL!
I don't really believe it, but I assumed that's what the poster I responded to was talking about. :-)
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
56. Yep. When our "side" has moonbats even
moonier than the opposition, it's time to fold our Big Tent and find another planet to kick 'em off of.

Except I'm not ready to give up just yet. One does so love a good brawl. :bounce: :woohoo:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. I wish I could disagree...
My heart disagrees but my brain says you're right on the money. :(
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Couldn't you strike that and reverse it
I think it's the other way around. Your brain doesn't have any evidence of this.

I was in a battleground state. The man worked himself into exhaustion. He has too long a history of fighting corruption. It doesn't make sense. If the only evidence, sorta, people have for this is that both Bush and Kerry were Bonesmen, then that's just ludicrous.

That didn't stop Kerry from investigating BCCI, which Poppy was quite involved in.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. He could have done what bush did and have a "swift boat" deal
run the ads and deny everything.

However, no stations would have run anything like that.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Why did the gloves stay on?"
That's the question we need to ask almost every Dem! And they need to be put on notice .. if they don't start fighting, if they continue to "play nice" and avoid any confrontation with the Repugs because they don't want to rock the boat, then we will find Democrats who aren't afraid to fight and we'll put them in office!

Hey Dems... don't think we can do it? Ask Howard Dean if it can be done. You remember him ... he's the guy that every member of the Democratic establishment did not want for DNC Chairman. Well, he is the chairman ... because we wanted it. :evilgrin:

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Al Franken has this segment on Fighting Dems . . . I love it. Just what
we need.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. My guess is
It was a very short segment
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. LOL!
Ouch! :rofl:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Ahyup
The leaders of the old dog dems have rolled over and played dead too many times. Dean is kicking and screaming, rolling and rocking, against the madness that's overtaken the party and our country. It's a new dem party, starting with Howard Dean.

Why Kerry didn't burn the bush by asking about why he just sat there we'll never know. Odds are the next candidate will; he'd better, or he might as well just roll over and offer up his soft belly.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
59. Because he has been a senator so long
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 06:46 AM by loyalsister
It's habit. He's a gentlemanly deal maker. And the worst possible presidential candidate.
That is a strength in it's own rite, but when running for president, the candidate needs to authentically draw lines in the sand. They have to be able to set themselves apart.
"Maybe he agrees with what Bush just said or maybe not" should not be something one could even ponder. Yet it was a frequent ponderance because of some large chunks of common ground over which they had traversed.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Did you hear Bob Schrum on Hardball tonight?
He said Bush handled himself "masterfully" in the months following 9-11. Does that answer your question?

I just about :puke: when I heard him say that.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Bob Shrums a walking disaster and he needs to be
Immediately thrown overboard. ANY candidate that Shrum gives advice to, my advice to them would be:

DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT BOB'S TOLD YOU TO DO.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. Bob Shrum is the worst kind of "Troll" he deserves to live under a bridge
for the rest of his troll life. He's lost election after election and yet is still on the Democratic Payroll. OH WAIT! Chris Matthews just identified him tonight as an MSNBC Consultant! Means he gets the DNC/DLC Money along with MSNBC. Oh be proud Bob Shrum. Scum who are hired to WIN Elections and LOSE them...are always WELL PAID.

:puke:
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. I have it on good authority, that Bob Shrum
In actual fact DOES live under a bridge ;)

I never saw the interview with Tweety, but it DOESN'T surprise me.

Bob Shrum has the SINGLE worst track record in campaigns. He simply is a mouthbreather and he should be told to fuck off. EVERY campaign he's been involved with has LOST. The man's toxic.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. Just look at the polls during that period. The nation rallied around the
Chimp at the time. Schrum was not in praise of Bush's overall character.
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Totally agree, Wish he'd have went out there and told it like that.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. I begged him to get some balls
and call Bush what he was. He used words like "error, mistake, wrong judgment. He is and the democratic party is the

Gerry Cooney of politics.


Bush said he would "STEP ON KERRY'S NECK!! Do you remember that??? Kerry should have said well then let's step outside. But no, out of deference to the office he wanted to be polite and sanguine in his comments.

We were ready to come out of our chairs for him but he never gave us the opportunity. We do not know how to go into the ring and do what championship fighters do. We just show up like Cooney did with his Irish hat and his gentle smile. And he got his block knocked off.

If we don't learn that lesson, we're the corrupt ones.
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. More like the Jerry Quarry of politics:
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. My guess is
that Kerry wanted to keep his hands clean. Be "noble", and above the dirty fray. It's not like there weren't plenty of other people to spread the message. Whick they tried to do, but failed miserably at making it stick.
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. I hate to say this,
but I don't think it would have been a nuclear bomb. The people who knew Bush LIHOPed 9-11 already knew, the ones who think Bush keeps us safe even if he nukes Seattle, won't have their minds changed by anything. A 45% skullfuck dumb population and the other 6% is taken care of by Diebold.
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WLKjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. Time to get flamed
Because Kerry, looking back on it, acted like a wuss when it came time to nuke Bush. He had the guy by the balls during the Debates and wouldn't use it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. yes...too much, too late. It's hard to take this seriously at this time.
It seems like "positioning" for 08.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
48. Because it would have turned off most Americans
I'm probably gonna be flamed for saying this, but the overwhelming majority of Americans feel that Bush did a decent job on 9-11 and afterward. Polls have also shown that most don't want to throw blame around.

Personally, I disagree with that - had Bush been more alert maybe 9-11 would still have happened, but with his incompetence it was really no surprise that it did. He deserves a good deal of the blame.

But had Kerry said this, my own impression is that there would have been a big backlash to him. The only people that felt that Bush bungled 9-11 were the people who were voting for Kerry anyway.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
50. Just say "no" to the D.I.N.O.
Kerry is a Democrat In Name Only.
He let us down in a huge way.
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
52. Kerry was (and is) weak
I'm sorry. I really don't want to type it because I truly wanted John Kerry today to be the John Kerry of 30+ years ago. He isn't.

He ran a weak campaign. He refused to attack his opponent. He refused to attack our election system. His weakness has endangered us all and, IMHO, we have already spent too much time discussing him.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. Baaaad timing on his part. ONE YEAR TOO LATE.
Damn. Those would have been such SWEET words during the campaign, but now? Give me a break.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
57. The MSM "narrative"
is that * was a strong leader on 9/11. Kerry's lone voice wasn't going to turn that around.

Look how long it's taken to reverse the "popular war-time president" meme (in regards to Iraq).
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
58. Really, the gloves never came off, including during the controversy
over the election itself. IMO, the only time Kerry really sounded passionate and wholehearted was when he was talking about Viet Nam.
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