My opinion on the whole South Park ordeal

[FreedomAngel82]

I read the post where someone was pissed off about South Park last night. News flash: it's a cartoon! I personally love the show and enjoy it. They always make fun of everybody. It's like with Jon Stewart. If he bashes democrats people jump up and say "screw you!" and than a few days later he comes and does an amazing show and people are again loving him. :eyes: Jon is a comedian just like South Park is a cartoon show.
It shouldn't matter the politics. I enjoy the show because it's something I like. If you don't like an episode that's okay. The show isn't made to make a political statement or anything like that from my watching the show. It's just a silly little show that's cute. Plus, my all time favorite cartoon character is on there and that's the cute Butters. :) So give this new season a chance before you go dumping the show.

[The Witch]

1. It's not like it's a secret that the creators are Republicans

Always have been always will be, those two. Despite their appearance in BfColumbine. So what.

What was the show about and why did it stir up the Du-ery?

[Susang]

4. Actually, they're Libertarians

Not Republicans. ;-)

[kenny blankenship]

12. Libertarians are republicans

who want to smoke pot. Serious hardcore believing Libertarians are even worse than republicans. There are still some republicans who understand that this is a country and that there are things your country can ask you to do or forgoe for the greater good. Libertarians are selfish like republicans but take it to the extreme of making a fucking religion of their selfishness, to the point that they deny that there are any legitimate claims that can be made on them by their society. But casual libertarians just want to smoke pot. And make racist/sexist/homophobic/ (oops, and antisemitic--forgot one!) jokes without the consequences of "being taken seriously".

[alfredo]

13. You ever heard of Left Libertarians? My friend is a leftist and

Libertarian. Doesn't Chomsky refer to himself as Libertarian?

[kenny blankenship]

25. -=CIVIL=- libertarians have been around since forever.

yes I AM a civil libertarian. Liberals tend to be libertarian in the sense of wanting to preserve and enlarge the sphere of liberty for the individual, and interposing strong barriers between the state's police powers and the privacy of citizens. There is a decidedly rightwing movement however, as well as a political party that has seized the name of "libertarian" for their autistic, laissez-faire, private property uber alles, society-denying ideology. To them, there is no such thing as society, as Baroness Thatcher put it, but only a gaggle of unconnected contemporaneous individuals who owe each other next to nothing (aside from what they may contract with each other explicitly). If you say "libertarian" in the course of a magazine article it is this second, current definition that most people including your editors, will assume you to mean.

To those who've just joined the party (the figurative not the literal political party), "Libertarian" means simply the rightwing society-denying party. To those who're a little late to the party, the phrase civil libertarian is probably a dim recollection, beyond the edge of their active vocabulary. The ACLU is libertarian as in civil libertarian. It was libertarian in the same sense in the 1920s when it took on the Scopes Monkey Trial. It is little changed in its libertarian concerns and outlook today. However, the rise of a mass of selfish individuals marching to their own drummer in lockstep since around the time of Ronald Alzheimer's Reagan has given a distinct and prevailing meaning for the term Libertarian which you need to be aware of.

Chomsky also calls himself an "anarchic-syndicalist" but in any case what he calls himself is neither here nor there as regards the meaning of terms in common usage. Chomsky never denies society as an existent thing, but he often shows a way-out tendency to wish the nation-state out of existence. Whitebread suburban libertarians are never so Utopian. They want the state to exist (so it will defend their property) they just don't want to pay any taxes to it, or have their personal enjoyment curtailed by it in any way. It's a backdoor way of saying "I want to be part of an elite that as part of its elite status enjoys benefits without responsibilities." That's why they get along so well with Republicans and generally vote Republican in elections. Hell, in probably 90+ percent of all issues they are in perfect agreement with mainstream Rethugs--they are anti-safety regulation, anti-health regulation, anti-safety-net, anti-labor regulation. The only practical areas of friction between them is over prayer in schools (and not all R's are for that anyway), abortion (most Libertarians are men and don't feel very passionate about their pro-choice position) and the matter of the government telling you what herbs you can't smoke (and that's not a law that's likely to change soon anyway so there's not much to fight over there). Neil Boortz also calls himself a Libertarian but I guarantee you the fat bastard votes Republican whenever there's a chance of a Democrat winning a race.

[alfredo]

42. Well put.

I remember spending many an hour dealing with a Libertarian back in the old Car Talk & cyber Soapbox days. He fit your description quite well. Good ole jay, miss his thousand word replies to simple questions that could have been easily answered yes or no.

[Greyhound]

54. The Libertarians (pre-shrub anyway) are a lot closer to the ideals this

nation was founded on than either repugs or dems. Of course, they've been infiltrated and taken over in many areas by fascists, but that will probably change again before too long.

[marmar]

5. And they've crticized Michael Moore for the South Park-esque cartoon...

in Bowling for Columbine (the history of America one). One of them said it was very un-American.

[Susang]

53. You do realize they're comedians?

Seriously, almost everything they say is a joke. In light of what they do for a living, do you honestly believe that these guys think that anything is "un-American"? They say things like that to get people like you all riled up. It seems to work very well.

[onenote]

30. then why did Matt Stone give $1000 to Kerry?

You can look it up at opensecrets.org

You got a link to support your claim?

onenote

[The Witch]

35. Nope, just hearsay.

I figured it was common knowledge. I'm sure there are plenty of republicans that voted for kerry.

[onenote]

37. you think lots of republicans gave Kerry $1000?

And you based your statement on "hearsay"? You mean someone told someone who told someone who told someone and somewhere along the way someone said it to you and that was good enough for you.

Wow.

onenote

[The Witch]

43. :shrug: Mea culpa.

I apparently make mistakes. Imagine that.

Sorry.

[Walt Starr]

2. I think the show has sucked for years

and no, I won't be giving their new season a chance.

[Mutley]

3. I agree.

The South Park guys are equal opportunity guys. They make fun of Repubs and Dems and everything in between and unrelated. But anyway, I didn't see last night's episode. What happened that has everyone pissed off?

[Loonman]

6. To me it indicates the neo-con kneejerk mindset

Which we constantly accuse the right wing of doing. Hey, if people cannot not understand satire, albeit biting satire, then their politics are reactionary and ephemeral at best.

It's a cartoon fer chrissakes which sometimes ventures into exaggerated social commentary.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Exactly

It's a cartoon. :eyes: If it's not your cup of tea than that's fine. :shrug: I personally love it. Here's what happened last night:

<A global warming state of emergency is declared in South Park when the world's largest beaver dam breaks and floods the adjacent town of Beaverton. Who is to blame? Only Stan and Cartman know who's really at fault.>

Some people in the cartoon were blaming George Bush and FEMA and the other side were blaming the terrorist's and the local government. LOL.

[w13rd0]

7. They already covered everything "outrageous"...

...now they've devolved into just being offensively stupid. That show jumped the shark back when jumping the shark jumped the shark. Furthermore, their "shtick" just isn't very f*ckin funny anymore, regardless who they point their barbs at.

[elehhhhna]

16. ditto. s.p. ain't funny no mo'

[Loonman]

8. Let me guess

The global warming dealie, right? Isn't the jury still out on that?

[RandomKoolzip]

21. Please cite any reputable scientist....

i.e., one who isn't on the payroll of a large oil, coal, or chemical company, who thinks "the jury's still out" about Global Warming.

[Loonman]

36. Reputable scientist?

Don't need one.

Does global warming occur?

Yes it does.

Is global warming caused exclusively by humans?

Doubtful. Weather records have only been kept since the end of the Civil War, 1865. Humans have not been on the planet long enough to significantly affect the weather on a global scale, there are far too many variables involved. Climate is so uniform, you need the luxury of examining millions of years of climate activity in order to see a pattern emerge. The earth not being a closed system, these variables also include sunspot activity, sun cycles, cosmic rays and the earth's magnetic field in terms of ozone depletion, most pronounced being at the poles, and you're still not even talking about earth bound variables which are entirely too complex to construct logorithms and run a coherent study and get any kind of reliable predictive theory.

[FVZA_Colonel]

40. I don't remember any advocate for global warming saying that

it was not a natural phenomena. From what I have heard, it is a cyclical occurance, but human activity is beginning to throw this cycle out of balance.

[Loonman]

41. To some small degree, yes

But to throw things off enough in order to cause massive hurricanes(to use one example), I'm still doubtful. The last major weather event to throw global climate off profoundly for a few years was the Krakatoa(sic) eruption.

I'd be more worried about ground level smog and other pollutants in localized areas.

[FVZA_Colonel]

44. I agree that it would take a great deal of activity,

but the Earth has had industrialized cultures on it since the beginning of the 19th century, and up until the 1960's there were no serious prohibitions against pollution emitions into the air, water, and elsewhere in the environment. I feel this is something we've been "working" towards since the early 1800's, and if we are not feeling the effects right now we probably will by the 2050's.

[Loonman]

49. Still only about 150 years or so

Not enough time for a consistant sample. Enough pollutants to make life difficult for plants and animals, yes, to cause massive profound climate change, I doubt it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Cartoon or not, I think that it is ugly and crude trash. A poor

excuse for "entertainment".

[tatertop]

17. Yep, very rude and crude

and boring on top of that

[fasttense]

10. It use to funny, now it's just boring.

Not sure what their politics is but the creators of the show do like to take swipes at liberals. But I thought it was funny at first. Now I find it boring, too predictable, too much of the same thing.

[Liberal Dose]

14. I thought "That's My Bush" was hilarious, along with the first few seasons

of South Park (I am Scuzzlebutt! Behold, my Patrick Duffy leg!)

I don't have time to see it anymore. If the posts here are any indication, I'm not missing much. :shrug:

[tatertop]

18. OK, Scuzzlebutt was funny

I had forgotten about Scuzzlebutt with the Patrick Duffy leg.
I guess I cannot judge the early years because I missed most of
that.

[alfredo]

15. Loved the way they trashed Faux Neuz last night.

[m_welby]

19. well, everyone is entitled to their opinion

If someone is pissed about southpark they have the right to voice their opinion. If south park wants to be offensive, thats their right as well.

as for me, I've never found the show to be funny, but I don't generally enjoy sophomoric humor anyway. 'outrageous' doesn't equal funny to me, humour needs to have a point, beyond being offensive and grotesque.

[EC]

20. No, it's not like Jon Stewart

he weights rather it is something that will hurt the country or not before putting it on air...he does RESPONSIBLE humor, not just humor for the sake of humor....as he told O'Lielly, he does add insult to injury, but the others add injury...

[FreedomAngel82]

23. With Jon Stewart I was talking about the type of response

When Jon gets democrats or doesn't trash someone enough or whatever people go "screw you!" and than a few days later Jon will do a great show and come back and people will love and idolize him again and say "Jon for president!" and things like that. :eyes: And SP is just a cartoon. And it isn't for everybody. A lot of people really like it (like myself) and a lot of people don't. I never cared for "Ren & Stimpy" or "Beavis & Butt-head" but I know people who love(d) them. :shrug: It just depends on personal taste. I'm willing to give the show more of a chance and see how this season is.

[The Revolution]

22. I actually haven't watched South Park since

the "Christmas Critters" episode. Not due to outrage or anything, there was just something very...unsettling about it.

[Liberal Dose]

46. OMG I felt the same way but couldn't find the right word to express it.

Unsettling indeed. :scared:

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

24. I probably won't see this episode for years

(British TV is way behind on South Park & when it does get shown, it's usually about one o'clock in the morning). However, I love Matt Stone & Trey Parker & believe they have free reign to go after everybody. (Plus they did a Troma movie which gives them a complete pass in my eyes.)

One of my favorite comedians is a guy called Jerry Sadowitz. He's quite unknown, mainly because of his ability to offend absolutely everybody. You may have heard of him as the guy who - in his first show at the Montreal Comedy Festival - began with 'Hello moose fuckers' & was prompltly knocked unconcious by a guy in the audience. But I love being challenged by him. There should always be room for guys who take no prisoners.

(and as a bonus, here's a link which has downloads of two Sadowitz shows. This years takes a bit to get going, but they're both gems:
http://comedy.simondiamond.net/ )

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Exactly

And if you can't laugh at yourself than you should check your panties and see how tight they are in your ass. Know what I mean? And in the episode they got everybody from the republicans with global warming to faux news and even the democrats who blame Bush on everything. ;)

[mrfrapp]

33. Jerry Sadowitz

Jerry Sadowitz is a fantastic card magician (third only to Ricky Jay and Derren Brown, IMO), I didn't know he was a comedian too. I'll be downloading those shows immediately. Ta.

As for South Park, the few episodes I've seen have been entertaining enough but it's hardly the pinnacle of satire. Even so, the episodes I've seen have always seemed to end with a message of how tolerance of others is important even if they are different. Perhaps, I've not seen any of the more controversial episodes.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

38. Great magician

I haven't seen much of his magic sadly - basically what's been on TV the past 10 years, but I've got a DVD called "Card Tricks Made Easy" where he demonstrates about a dozen fairly easy tricks (although there are a couple involving only around 10 cards based on statistics that are really beautiful).

I wish Derren Brown would do some close-up again (btw - he got his TV break from Sadowitz, if you didn't already know that) as I've only seen his mentalism. I've tried on several occassions to (very naughtily) download the video he made ('Devils Experiment'(?)) but have got nowhere.

(ps- the Stewart Lee set from that link is well worth downloading. It's a pre-Edinburgh show of the set that's just come out on DVD.)

on edit - found it: a 5000-word poem by Stewart Lee inspired by his time in the mid-eighties as Sadowitz's support act:

As we travelled the country, it became clear to me
Malcy wasn't that concerned about his comedy career.
It was of secondary importance to a social network he maintained,
Which indulged his other interests up and down the land.
In Aberdeen a small fat man met Malcy after the show,
And they retired to practice card tricks in a hotel room,
Sharing junk food from the garage and a can of Irn Bru,
Lamenting Malcy's conflict with the Magic Circle crew.

http://www.stewartlee.co.uk/writing/writing_glass2002.html

[mrfrapp]

50. Derren Brown

"I wish Derren Brown would do some close-up again (btw - he got his TV break from Sadowitz, if you didn't already know that) as I've only seen his mentalism."

I didn't know that. Was he doing card magic at the time?


" I've tried on several occassions to (very naughtily) download the video he made ('Devils Experiment'(?)) but have got nowhere."

It's called the "Devil's Picturebook". I don't know where you can download it from TBH as I've not seen it available from the usual sites.
It seems to be up for sale again on Brown's website though.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

52. ...

from an interview with Sadowitz:

But just when you think the old bile-filled Jerry is back, he reveals that there is at least one successful trickster he respects Channel 4's wunderkind Derren Brown, right, the mind control guy.

He knows Brown "a fucking excellent magician" from when he used to visit the International Magic Shop on London's Clerkenwell Road, the sanctuary where Sadowitz works when he's not performing.

"He used to come into the shop and show me tricks," Sadowitz says. "Then would explain the method, and it would be something I already knew. But the way he did it always surprised me."

In fact, it was Sadowitz who recommended Brown to a Channel 4 executive who was looking for a 'mentalist'.

That said, Jerry still claims: "There's nothing Derren Brown can do that I can't. It's all neurolinguistic trickery."

http://www.chortle.co.uk/standup/sufeatures/sadowitz.html
-----

"It seems to be up for sale again on Brown's website though."

Excellent. There was a guy on the Kazaa network hosting it, but he was on & off & would often just disconnect me. After about 3 weeks & only around 2 megabytes I gave up.

edit - yeah, you're right, thanks. Just need to justify spending £35!

[mrfrapp]

55. Expensive

It is an expensive disc but it is worth it. You've quoted the price so I assume you know the answer to the question. I don't like McDonald's much but what they have on offer hits the spot occasionally. ;-)

"There was a guy on the Kazaa network hosting it, but he was on & off & would often just disconnect me. After about 3 weeks & only around 2 megabytes I gave up."

The problem here is that you're competing against the magicians code and not just copyright law. I actually don't have a copy of the disc but even I, who has no respect for current copyright laws, would be reluctant to offer the disc for download. As Derren says, I would run the risk of receiving a "hard smack from the baby jesus" :-)


Thanks for the link to the Sadowitz interview. I must confess that I've not paid much attention to him so the links to the mp3s and what-not is appreciated.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

57. yeah - downloading is very naughty

when it comes to magic and I deserve a damn good spanking. My gripe about the price is mainly because I'm currently broke; for what you get it's actually a pretty decent prince

Aside from a few mediocre card tricks, I'm not a magician or anything - just deeply fascinated by its performance & history. Derren really needs a harder question if he wants fanboys like me to keep out of his site!

I'll be interested to see what you think of Sadowitz' stand-up. I saw him live about 6 years ago & that was probably the best of the three sets I've heard. I also thought he was great on the Channel 5 shows he had. This years act misfires in a few places IMO & he walks the fine line of ironical racism very delicately.

[stevietheman]

27. Agreed. It's a great show, but some episodes are clunkers.

And last night's episode was a clunker.

But I don't think they're going downhill. Most of the episodes from this past spring were pretty good.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. I can't wait to see the other episodes though

:) My favorite one though is the Lord of the Ring episode and the porno and Butters gets addicted to it. LOL.

[eggman67]

34. Five midgets

spanking a man covered in thousand island dressing...

[FVZA_Colonel]

47. That was pretty damned funny.

Though my personal favorite would still have to be the one where they introduced Timy.

[eggman67]

48. For me it's

Death Camp of Tolerance

[Johonny]

29. They don't bash everyone

While ripping Hollywood they manage to avoid attack themselves. They have an I'm right your wrong attitude that is very bit as pompous as the people they trash.

I think it was the episode where they declared second hand smoke studies "not real science" that I lost interest in the show.

[onenote]

31. its a cartoon -- they don't "declare" anything

They have foul mouthed little kids say stuff...its a joke. Like it, don't like it. But don't take it seriously.

onenote

[Johonny]

51. They seem to take it seriously

Or else they would bash themselves or write non-moral based cartoons. Since they don't, it's pretty clear they believe they stand outside of Hollywood, celebrity worship and celebrity ego. Yet they don't anymore. They do the very thing they mock. The irony of this made the cartoon less enjoyable over the years. 20 years from now some young artist will trash Matt Stone as a where are they now loser and I bet Matt won't be yucking it up.

[Loonman]

39. No they have a:

"Don't believe everything everybody tells you to believe" attitude.

[Cleita]

32. Darn I forgot to watch it.

I agree. It's just a cartoon that pokes fun at anything they can get humor out of. We lefties aren't so high on our pedestal that we can't get knocked off of it occasionally. I love their view of heaven and hell. It's their view we are all going to hell because so few of us are really saintly enough to get into heaven.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Yes

And as I've said before if you can't laugh at yourself than you've got your panties stuck up your ass too much. I've never got "Beavis & Butt-head" or "Rin & Stimpy" yet in the other thread about South Park people declared to love Beavis & Butt-head. :shrug: Some episodes do suck but that's how it is all the time. Besides, Butters is still the cutest thing and that's what matters. ;)

[MrSlayer]

56. I thought the show was hysterical as usual.

I love the way they expose the ridiculousness of the country. And Cartman rules.