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"Alaskans support ANWR!!" Here's my response to that

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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:34 PM
Original message
"Alaskans support ANWR!!" Here's my response to that
So what are you going to do 20 years from now when it's all gone?

20 years is a long time but hardly constitutes long term thinking. This is according to DOE ANWR has approximately 10 billion barrels of proven reserves (that's if they are telling the truth) which means our depedency on foreign would be reduced by about THREE PERCENT.

Again that is THREE (3) PERCENT over the course of 20 years.

You know what I don't buy it and I call bullshit on the notion that the majority of Alaskans are in favor of this.

No offense but if it's true and the people of Alaska overwhelmingly support the notion of killing off animals and worse advocating the continuing policy of ignoring the fact that a REAL solution to our energy crisis must be found then sorry you know what you're demanding to be propped up by revenues which come from CROOKED interests whose interests HARM you and America overall.

Find a way to another state if you're so deperate that you believe you must suck the teat of a CROOKED and DANGEROUS practice in order to feed your families.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Alaskans don't own ANWAR, you and I do.....
Arctic NATIONAL Wildlife Refuge...
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup I know I am just fed up with the talking point that
The majority of Alaskans supposedly support this and that I should be ashamed for not supporting them and their right to prosper from resources on "their" land.


Thanks for pointing this out though it is completely the one line smack down to the argument.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Whenever this regime drags out the 'majority of Americans support'
anything, I call bushit! The majority of Americans didn't support the war, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Pinhead in '00 and truth be told, didn't vote for him in '04 either. The majority of Americans weren't behind these evil cretins on the Terry Schiavo issue and the majority of Americans don't really back these election stealing A-holes on any # of issues, for that matter! They can take their 'majority of Americans' and stick it where the sun don't shine! However, I bet the majority of Americans will get behind an impeachment of GW after they learn the facts of the past five years, if we ever do.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. You are correct, Sir
I have no more, or less ownership than an Alaskan, though I could argue the native Aleuts have more claim than any.

Lets hold a nationwide referendum of all the "owners" and see what happens.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Don't forget the Athabascans, Inupiats and Yupiks,
Tlingits and Haidas.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I did not mean to leave out any native group
I am just not that familiar with them all. The way the USA treats the native americans is a total shame....
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Not a problem...
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 11:22 PM by Blue_In_AK
I probably missed a few distinctions myself. Alaska is a huge place, and the state's individual Native cultures are distinct -- Generally speaking, it's Eskimos on the North Slope (mainly Inupiat), Eskimos in the northwest (Yupik), Indians in the Interior (Athabascans), Indians in the southwest and the islands (Aleuts) and Indians in Southeast (Tlingit/Haida). The Natives who would be most affected by drilling in ANWR are the North Slope tribes. Interestingly, it seems that the Inupiat Eskimos are predominantly in favor of drilling while the Gwich'n Indians are opposed, apparently continuing a longstanding tradition of animosities between the Eskimos and the Indians.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Of Course, Alaskans like the money

I think ANWR funds would contribute to the "live in Alaska and get money thing."

http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Actually, we're banking more on bringing our natural gas
to market now. ANWR is so "yesterday." :sarcasm:
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Canadian Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Correct me if I'm wrong
and I am, frequently. But isn't part of ANWR in the Canadian Arctic? I saw a map a while back, and it sure looked like it. I've tried google, but no joy. Maybe someone could help me with this.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. As of right now I wish it was part of Canada I don't know for sure
I don't think the Canadian government would even CONSIDER what the current punkasses in office are seriously considering doing.

Plus I have a passport now so I could go visit the area anytime even as a non-citizen of Canada :)
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Canadian Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Bring bug spray in the summer!
Anyway, IIRC, ANWR doesn't mean Alaskan Natural Wildlife Reserve, it means Arctic etc. and I'm still pretty sure it is one of the World Heritage places. So, if the U.S. starts drilling on their side and then starts doing that lateral drilling (which Kuwait was doing to Iraq) would that mean that Canada could invade the U.S.? Not that we would... but still.

FYI, I live in Alberta, so I know from oil drilling <heee>.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Canada may not invade the US but I am seriously considering invading you
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 07:05 PM by noahmijo
Canada I mean.


I dunno how much more bullshit I can take personally. This country used to be something I was proud of despite our bloody and dark history I really really thought that despite the bruises we were going to be destined for greatness and prosperity and by the day that notion is getting shattered as I see religious yahoos and proud ignorants and the rich control and ruin the lives of the citizens.

I know Canada has its problems like everyone else but I don't see a band of rich powerful types who would've burned Galileo or stuck Jesus back on the cross running things up there the way they do down here.

Learning French shouldn't be tough Spanish was my first language and my girlfriend speaks near fluent French we're both college grads and in our early 20's.

Think we could get citizenship? :)
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Canadian Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You can invade me anytime noah... just kidding
Actually, yes... you should be easy fits up here. Being bilingual is always plus as well as the university education and age.

On a different topic, I think the reason Canadians don't have the extremes (although they are here) is because the majority of Canadians live in urban areas (over 500,000 pop. cities). This brings a certain amount of sophistication. As well, Canadians TRAVEL. Sort of like Australians. We go south, we go overseas, we travel the country (and it is one big fucking country). Plus, we have a federal policy of cultural diversity, not assimilation. This is just my theory of course.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Damn you were only kidding
Well one thing that I am definitely going to pursue is Dual Citizenship if it is possible. Reasons for doing so just in case another Bush gets elected in 2008 that will be it I will have had it once and for all.

Even if America does turn around I always thought it would be cool to someday own a home in the Canadian countryside somewhere.

Do you the rules of dual citizenship of if it's even possible? I always was under the impression that Canada allows it but so long as it is "dual" with some other country they don't let you vote which is understandable and acceptable to me.
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Canadian Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Settle down, kid
I'm old enough to be your grandmother.

Anyway, your best bet is to go the Government of Canada website. They have a self-test for viability of admission.
try this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/applications/index.html
Good luck! And may I suggest you try either Calgary or Winnipeg instead of Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto? As an American you might feel more comfortable in Calgary; as a bilingual, Winnipeg (large Hispanic community, and a socialist government).
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. There was a map I saw here on DU
Maybe it was a link, but I think maybe what you saw was the caribou breeding ground, which bleeds out of ANWAR on all sides, and ANWAR's east side borders Canada. My impression was that 80-90% of the caribou breeding ground was in ANWAR.
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Canadian Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That is probably what I saw
but it still doesn't explain the fact that oil doesn't follow borders. So, logically, some of that oil is in Canadian territory. So, what are they going to do about that? What happens if the geologic studies show that the majority of the oil is in Canadian territory?
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's like cutting down the whole forest to support some "jobs" for a
little while. They bitch and moan until they get their hands on the whole forest. After that, they all move on anyway, like locusts.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm glad you got the point of my post (all responses so far have)
But you nailed it point blank by commenting on the core of what I wrote.

I am not bashing Alaskans I am bashing the argument of the supposed Alaskans who see this operation as some sort of moneymaker as a way to make jobs when really it's nothing but a shitty band-aid and barely even one at that, and to boot it's only short term and then they would be left with nothing but corrupted mass of land that was once beautiful, jobless when the oil is gone.......Then what would they do???
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chill out -- we don't all support drilling in ANWR...
Geez...
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I know that's why I threw in the bit about how I doubt the majority
support it.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. The economic hit will cost most of us our lives...
Let them drill. They'll end up living on an ecological hotplate wishing that saint reagan and his cronies didn't set the stage for our destruction.

We can do nothing except live happy while we can. And I'm too fuckin' tired of being afraid. There is no damn point.
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