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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:05 AM
Original message
Niger Uranium Forgery Mystery Solved? (Antiwar.com)
October 19, 2005
Niger Uranium Forgery
Mystery Solved?
The Fitzgerald/Plame investigation goes in a new direction
by Justin Raimondo

Amid all the brouhaha over whether I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Karl Rove, or any number of Bush administration insiders had a hand in leaking the name of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame, the essential crime at the core of the investigation and its probable starting point often gets lost in the shuffle. The "outing" of Plame was not an end in itself: the outers didn't just one day decide that they were going to go after her and Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, her husband, because they were in a vindictive mood. They were out to get them because Wilson drew attention to the provenance of the infamous "16 words" uttered by President Bush in his 2003 state of the union address, in which Bush claimed that Iraq had sought out uranium to make a nuclear bomb in "an African country." Perhaps without knowing it, Wilson in taking an interest in this subject was getting too close to the enormous fraud at the center of the War Party's propaganda campaign.

The African country Bush spoke of is Niger, where much of the world's uranium is mined under the watchful eye of a French consortium and where it would be extremely difficult, if not close to impossible, for the Iraqis to walk off with the tons of uranium required to produce weapons-grade materials. This accountability issue was no doubt a major reason for the skepticism the Niger uranium story engendered in Ambassador Wilson, who was sent to Niger by the CIA to check out the facts and came back with a negative report. Wilson was therefore shocked to hear the president reiterate a claim that had been previously and definitively debunked, and went public with his mission and its results but not before the source of that claim had been brutally and publicly refuted by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

In early October 2002, Italian journalist Elisabetta Burba, a writer for Italy's Panorama magazine, delivered some documents to the U.S. embassy in Rome: a cache of letters and other papers purporting to be correspondence between officials of the Niger government and the Iraqis relating to the acquisition of uranium "yellowcake." The documents soon found their way to Washington, D.C., where key administration officials were quick to incorporate them into their "talking points" for war with Iraq and into Bush's Jan. 28, 2003 speech.

When the IAEA asked to see evidence of the administration's contentions, they were put off, until finally the Niger uranium documents were handed over. It took IAEA scientists just a few hours to demonstrate that the documents were not only forgeries, but were particularly crude ones at that an amateur could have debunked them using Google. As the Washington Post reported, one administration official's response was "We fell for it."

snip>

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7681
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. it's always worse than you think it is...
"Before Fitzgerald is done, we'll see the warlords of Washington hauled before a court of the people. We'll hear the whole sordid story of how a band of exiles, at least two foreign intelligence agencies, and a cabal of neoconservatives inside the Pentagon and the vice president's office bamboozled Congress and the American people into going to war. As the indictments come down, so will the elaborate narrative so carefully constructed by the War Party in the run-up to war be exposed as a tissue of fabrication, forgery, and fraud."

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7681

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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Whoa. If this came out, it would be absolutely explosive.
It definately fits the definition of treason.

No one would get off. Everyone involved would burn. I'd expect life in prison or the death penalty.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Everyone has got to read this.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've always found Raimondo to be spot on,
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 12:31 AM by shraby
and it looks like he has snared another scoop.
In an article put out by Seymour Hersh some time ago, he said that a couple of CIA agents had been in on the forgery, now Raimondo has the names.
Ledeen had always been suspected to have his fingers in the pie also.

on edit:
It looks like Fitzgerald's list of indictments may be longer than what was expected.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. You are the one that turned me on to Justin...
I read everything over there now. Thanks. :hi:
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. The story Hersh was told was that it was forged as a sting by retired CIA
to embarass the administration but it backfired and the forgery was used to support the war. At least Hersh didn't appear to wholly buy the backfired sting story although he reported it:

Another explanation was provided by a former senior C.I.A. officer. He had begun talking to me about the Niger papers in March, when I first wrote about the forgery, and said, Somebody deliberately let something false get in there. He became more forthcoming in subsequent months, eventually saying that a small group of disgruntled retired C.I.A. clandestine operators had banded together in the late summer of last year and drafted the fraudulent documents themselves.

The agency guys were so pissed at Cheney, the former officer said. They said, O.K, were going to put the bite on these guys. My source said that he was first told of the fabrication late last year, at one of the many holiday gatherings in the Washington area of past and present C.I.A. officials. Everyone was bragging about itHeres what we did. It was cool, cool, cool. These retirees, he said, had superb contacts among current officers in the agency and were informed in detail of the sismi intelligence...

...Like all large institutions, C.I.A. headquarters, in Langley, Virginia, is full of water-cooler gossip, and a retired clandestine officer told me this summer that the story about a former operations officer faking the documents is making the rounds. Whats telling, he added, is that the story, whether its true or not, is believedan extraordinary commentary on the level of mistrust, bitterness, and demoralization within the C.I.A. under the Bush Administration. (William Harlow, the C.I.A. spokesman, said that the agency had no more evidence that former members of the C.I.A. had forged the documents than we have that they were forged by Mr. Hersh.)

The F.B.I. has been investigating the forgery at the request of the Senate Intelligence Committee. A senior F.B.I. official told me that the possibility that the documents were falsified by someone inside the American intelligence community had not been ruled out. This story could go several directions, he said. We havent gotten anything solid, and weve looked. He said that the F.B.I. agents assigned to the case are putting a great deal of effort into the investigation. But somebodys hiding something, and theyre hiding it pretty well. http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's the article I read...
It was a long time ago, and I see it was a 2003 one.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. That is a great article. I have never read it.
It guess could be true that some CIA agents set the Neo cons up but I tend to believe it was Ledeen and Co.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. Mmmm... Tasty
what the Bush people did was dismantle the existing filtering process that for fifty years had been preventing the policymakers from getting bad information. They created stovepipes to get the information they wanted directly to the top leadership.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. I heard when the FBI people saw it they cracked up laughing it was so bad
the forgery was REALLY bad, i saw copies of it.. they took letter heads and taped in the message and a signature of someone who hadn't been in the government in years...

the whole thing was like a bad Xerox of a bad Xerox of a bad Xerox of a Bad Xerox.. it was so bad that whoever did it had to take a pen and outline the eagle in the letterhead to be able to identify what it was... :rofl: it really was amateurish.. looked like some did it really drunk of something
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hmmm. "Bad", "Drunk", "Amateur"
I think I have your police composite sketch of the perp:

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great read -- and recommended
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 12:33 AM by wtmusic
thanks, and thank God for Patrick Fitzgerald.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. severe .., put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye.!!
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fascinating. I read the whole thing. It just gets darker and darker
the suspense is palpable.
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. *WOW*...
if Fitz has this, he has the complete picture. Hmmm...

:popcorn:
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. His single CIA source...
... might well be wrong, or have an agenda, but, damn, let's hope it's the straight poop.

The most encouraging thing in this, if true, is that Fitzgerald asked for info from the Italians on the forgeries. If it turns out that Berlusconi's government was involved in trying to start a war with Iraq, it and Berlusconi are toast, too.

Gee, only one more right-wing government and it's a trifecta. :)
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. Rate it up.
:kick:
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Just did.
Needs 2 more for greatest page
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. This whole story would make one hell of a novel.
It would be a best seller and have movie rights bought for it. Sad thing it's true.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. For first time, I think this could be bigger than Watergate.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. Bigger than Watergate?
Even without the Niger docs, this story was already a thousand times bigger than Watergate. Even if you just confine it to Valerie Plame, it is much bigger than Watergate. The Valerie Plame affair alone involves outright treason, and death to an unknown number of people resulted directly from the act. If it weren't high government officials involved, they would get the death penalty.

If you consider the larger picture - the White House Iraq Group, the lies about WMD, Niger docs, and not to mention an illegal relationship between government officials and members of the press, this is a million times bigger than Watergate. Hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result. International war crimes are involved.

Watergate is child's play compared to what we are facing.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. I meant that in this sense:
Watergate started out as a burglary and then turned out to be very big conspiracy of spying and cheating in order to win elections and destroy enemies.

Plame started off looking like someone made the mistake of breaking a law in order to harm the credibility of an administration critic. Sure they wanted her to lose her job and for there to be financial consequences for the Wilson family, but it was conceivable (although unlikely) that the worst thing they did was simply not run this by the lawyers before pulling it. Had the lawyers pointed out the statute, they might have decided not to do it (not that that would have been a legal defense).

Now, it's starting to look like this is much bigger and deeper -- it's starting to look like it was part of a grand strategy of trying to control every aspect of the public perception of the invasion through lies and through control of the media, and, regardless of whether they knew about the statute making the plame revelation illegal. Now it looks as if, even if they hadn't outed plame after consulting a lawyer, there would still be enough other crimes and serious allegations to pursue (and I'm not talking only about post facto obstruction of justice charges, but charges that related to sharing top secret info with people without clearance, and trying to falsify evidence, and, perhaps, other acts of retribution against other critics that are illegal under US law).
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
48. Could?? Would?? I bet it will. Casting, anyone?
Gene Hackman (/Enemy of the State/) as the dusgruntled CIA operative

Will Smith (/Enemy/, /I, Robot/) as the intrepid reporter

Denzel Washington (/Pelican Brief/, etc.) as Joseph Wilson

Sandra Bullock (/Pelican Brief/) as Valerie Plame

Morgan Freeman (/Dreamcatcher/) as the crazed administration official

Clint Eastwood (/Absolute Power/) as the honest FBI agent

Tommy Lee Jones (/The Fugitive/) as the corrupt FBI agent (Ashcroft?)

Harrison Ford (/The Fugitive/, etc.) as Fitzgerald

and...

Matt Damon as Jason Bourne


Shit, I could write this...!

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. More Casting for "The Bourne Invasion" (suggestions?)
Diane Keaton (/Annie Hall/, /Something's Gotta Give/) as Judith Miller

Jack Nicholson (/Something's Gotta Give/, /About Schmidt/) as Scooter Libby

Dennis Hopper (/E-Ring/, /Waterworld/) as Donald Rumsfeld

John Goodman (/O Brother, Where Art Thou?/) as Big Eddie Schultz

George Clooney (/Three Kings/, /Good Night/) as the honest army officer (WMD expert?)

Billy Bob Thornton (/Monster's Ball/, /Slingblade/) as James Carville

Halle Berry (/Monster's Ball/, /X-Men/) as Matalin/Condi Rice composite

Paul Giamatti (/Sideways/, /American Splendor/) as Karl Rove

Dustin Hoffman (/Wag the Dog/) as Larry King/Hannity/O'Reilly composite

Alan Alda as Bush senior

Tim Robbins (/The Cradle Will Rock/, /Arlington Road/) as Pat Robertson

and...

Sean Penn as President Bush

(I know, I know, critics will pan it as Oscar pandering in yet another mentally handicapped role, but I really think Sean Penn could pull it off)

Paging Oliver Stone... or with this cast, perhaps Robert Altman...
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Just recommended this story.
This is mind-boggling! And the Iran-Contra crowd keeps popping up...WHY am I not surprised?
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progressive_realist Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. Good thing the Iran-Contra crowd were all pardoned, huh?
So they could KEEP BREAKING THE LAW. :mad:
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McKenzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. I have recommended this article
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 03:07 AM by McKenzie
The article comprises exactly the sort of insightful analysis we need.

Thanks for posting that link - DU is a great team.

<edit>just woke up and used even crappier English than usual
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caduceus111 Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. Wow...this should be on the front page.
Looks like Fitz is leaving no stone unturned. Pass the salt! :popcorn:
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. italian journalist .... didn't an italian journalist get shot in iraq?
same one? or maybe they thought it might be the same one?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. I think that was a male..
the journalist in the OP is a female.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. I think he was referring to Giuliana Sgrena who was first held captive
by insurgents and then when she was released, shot by US troops while being driven back by her escorts (one of whom was killed).
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. oh sorry eom
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jfern Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. More info here
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
25. Whats Ms. Burbas roll in all of this?
n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. The most interesting part of the Justin Raimonda article quoted above
comes later in the article. There was a meeting in Rome in December 2001, with a cast of criminals that you almost need a chart to describe and to relate to each other and to the dastardly, traitorous deeds they have been involved in. The Italian Parliament investigated that meeting (in connection with the Niger forgeries) and issued a report, which Fitzgerald has requested an unredacted copy of, and which he has further requested to show to Paul McNulty, the prosecutor in the AIPAC/Franklin case. Raimondo says the two cases are closely connected.

Those present at the meeting included

Michael Ladeen: a very radical neocon involved with Iranian arms dealer Ghorbanifar in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Manucher Ghorbanifar: Iranian arms dealer; Iran-Contra conspirator.

Duane Clarridge: one of the two Niger forgers; indicted in Iran-Contra, pardoned by Reagan; wrote the nefarious pamphlet for the Contras with instructions on assassinating Nicaraguans and targeting civilians. Bad CIA.

Larry Franklin: top Pentagon Iran specialist, recently turned state's evidence in the AIPAC scandal--spying for Israel; helped set up Pentagon Office of Special Plans to "stovepipe" selected intelligence from Ahmad Chalabi.

Harold Rhode: very close to Chalabi; passed top secret US info to Israel; helped set up Pentagon OSP.

Nicole Pollari: head of Italian intelligence.

Antonio Martino: head of Italian Defense Ministry.

-----------

These were the conspirators who cooked up the Niger forgeries. Raimonda wonders what deal Ladeen was putting together here, and I wonder, too. You don't need a committee of this many conspirators to forge some documents (badly forge, as it turns out). The arms dealer is surely the key--war profiteering plans, surely, but something else. Could this be the group that planned to PLANT nukes (or other WMDs) in Iraq, for Judith Miller to "find"?

The WMD-planting theory that some of us think is behind Treasongate is as follows: The Niger forgeries were intended as a setup or baiting of the CIA by the Bushites, to get the CIA white hats to commit to a public position that there were no nukes in Iraq, then trump the CIA and discredit it forever with a "find" of planted weapons in Iraq; the plot went awry, they were discovered and foiled, possibly by Plame/Brewster-Jennings and maybe David Kelly--the Brits chief WMD expert who turned up dead four days after Plame was outed. The Bushites outed Plame in a very panicky way--calling at least six reporters in a week's time, and putting many top Bushites at risk of treason charges--possibly tipped off by Tony Blair about what Kelly knew (7/7/03), and fearing discovery of their dirty plot, their aim being not so much to punish Wilson for his article as to quickly and completely silence and disable Plame (7/14/03) and her network (7/22/03)--and likely (and possibly deliberately) getting some covert contacts killed. David Kelly may also have been killed (7/17/03)for knowing or participating in foiling the Bushite plan.

One of the unanswered questions in this theory has been who exactly planned and executed the movement of WMDs into Iraq (to be "found" by Miller), and this December 2001 Rome group might be the answer to that. Miller was placed in Iraq with special creds from Rumsfeld to accompany and even push around the U.S. troops who were "hunting" for the weapons that everyone in the cabal knew weren't there. That certainly fits with the Pentagon OSP people (Franklin, Rhodes) who were at the Rome meeting, and possibly points to Rumsfeld being even more guilty than Cheney, of the entire plot from the Niger forgeries to outing Plame. (It would be interesting to know what Bolton knew about that Rome meeting.)

Judith Miller has close connections to David Kelly, who had been whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC about the Brits' "sexed up" Iraq intel, and who was outed to his bosses, interrogated, threatened, outed to the press and sent home without protection during the same period in which Miller was thickly involved in outing Plame. Kelly's last email was to Miller, warning of the "many dark actors playing games." (The email was later released by his family, not by Miller.)

Dark actors, indeed.

One of the Islamic news reports was from a Pentagon debriefer/whistleblower (Nelda Rogers) who said a covert arms shipment, run by ex-military, and paid covertly through the US Dept of Agr, met with "friendly fire" in Iraq. The other said the shipment was off loaded at Basra, and had false Red Cross labels. Both reports--if true--could be Pentagon OSP, with this Rome group having arranged for the weapons (with Ghorbanifar perhaps being the expert on Iraqi sourcing--making the weapons seem plausibly Iraqi).

A plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, that got foiled, makes a lot of things make sense. It may explain why the Niger forgeries were such crude documents, easily detected as forgeries. They WANTED the CIA to see through them. It could also explain why the Niger allegation was placed in Bush's SOTU speech, even though it was provably false. They WANTED the CIA to be baited by it. It explains why the Bushites outed Plame/BJ is such a foolish, precipitous fashion, involving at least six journalist witnesses to treason, etc. And it explains why they would be furious at the CIA, specifically, in that time period. The CIA figured it out, caught them red-handed, and stopped them. Their grand scheme to "get" the CIA, and to justify the war with a "find" of WMDs, not only got foiled, it left them stumbling around for months--and to this day--trying to emphasize other reasons for the invasion, with Bush Jr.'s approval numbers, never strong, sinking like the Titanic.

Anyway, that's the theory, and it will be interesting to see if it pans out, if Fitzgerald or McNulty got onto it, and if that is what the Rome group was up to.

It's not as if those Rome cabalists hadn't run arms before, for political purposes.



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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I love your theory. It does make a lot of sense.
But I don't think we will know for sure until the book comes out. I wonder what the title will be?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Larry Franklin, eh? AIPAC/PNAC determining US foreign policy - MORE >>>
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 11:14 AM by Roland99
I remember this article from a few months ago:

KARL ROVE, MICHAEL LEDEEN SPIES PROCURED FORGED NIGER DOCUMENTS
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256

KARL ROVE and VARIOUS SPIES HE IS LINKED TO

Karl Roves only full-time foreign-policy advisor is Michael Ledeen, a rabid anti-Arab, pro-Israel activist. The FBI is investigating Ledeen for procuring forged documents (shown here) on nonexistent WMD, which George Bush used to justify his war on Iraq. When Joseph Wilson exposed the farce, Rove helped "out" Wilsons CIA wife. Did Ledeen procure the documents for Rove, and how might he have done that? The story includes multinational stool pigeon Rocco Martino, Italian spy Francesco Pazienza, wanted CIA spy Robert Seldon Lady, and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, whos under charges of giving US secrets to Israel.
Karl Roves foreign-policy advisor, Michael Ledeen, proclaimed "the rightness of the fascist cause" in 1972. In 1984 he got George Bush Sr to appoint Iranian arms merchant and Iranian/Israeli double-agent Manucher Ghorbanifar as a middleman in the scandalous Iran-Contra affair. Ledeen has been a fixture in Washington and Israel ever since, advocating a modern version of the Crusades against Islamic nations. Based on what he has said and written, I believe Ledeen is insane.

Michael Ledeen, Roves "brain," is one of the leading advocates for a US attack on Iran. The Washington Post quoted Ledeen as saying that Rove told him, "Anytime you have a good idea, tell me." I guess that means we can look forward to the Bush team drumming up a war with Iran.

George Bush Jr., when he assumed the presidency in 2000, already knew that he was going to settle the family score with Saddam Hussein. His "brain," Rove, quickly enlisted Ledeen to trump up a causus belli.

<...>

ROME MEETING IN DECEMBER 2001

Michael Ledeen organized a meeting in Rome to gather evidence to support the planned war. Present were:

1. Michael Ledeen, Karl Roves foreign policy advisor and organizer of the meeting
2. Nicolo Pollari, head of the the Italian equivalent of the CIA, the SISMI
3. Italys Minister of Defense, Antonio Martino (no relation apparently to the spy Rocco Martino), Pollaris boss
4. Larry Franklin, an American who presently is being prosecuted in the US for giving classified information to an Israeli front group, AIPC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) -- which some would call "spying," even though he has not been charged with espionage
5. Harold Rhode: member of Dick Cheneys Office of Special Plans, protege of Ledeen, go-between with Iraqi exile and CIA asset (at the time) Ahmed Chalabi.



Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski also mentions these people in her work, The New Pentagon Papers
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/03/10/osp_mov...

I shared some of my concerns with a civilian who had been remotely acquainted with the Luti-Feith-Perle political clan in his previous work for one of the senior Pentagon witnesses during the Iran-Contra hearings. He told me these guys were engaged in something worse than Iran-Contra. I was curious but he wouldn't tell me anything more. I figured he knew what he was talking about. I thought of him when I read much later about the 2002 and 2003 meetings between Michael Ledeen, Reuel Marc Gerecht and Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar -- all Iran-Contra figures.

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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Get/discredit public view of CIA, discrediting M$M leaks?
I can see that.

The CIA would have clout with M$M that Bush admin would like to enjoy alone. Leakers could not be controlled, so to quiet do-gooder CIAers a grand scheme with a backup see-through Niger document rife for leaking precedes a to-be-planted WMD proving CIA wrong in public eyes.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. Nitpick: Poppy Pardoned His Co-Conspirator Clarridge
This was while Clarridge was under indictment. Clearly Obstruction of Justice.

And like Weinberger, he was pardoned while he had yet to be found to have committed any crime!?!

But since he did it after losing the election, during Xmastime (proudly displaying the the main bush family trait- cowardice), the Euphemedia hardly peeped.

Could even be this was the pardon's quid pro quo.

------
www.january6th.org
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. Discussion Links to the WMD connection theory
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 10:53 AM by Leopolds Ghost
I've been a lurker on this site, but this stuff is interesting enough to compile.

Not saying I believe it, but it needs to be followed up on. The only reason I say that, mind you, is because of the Washington Post quote below.

---

Fitzgerald's Case: Clues Suggest This is Much Bigger Than We Know

(be sure to read the whole thread!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Has Fitz uncovered the Office of Special Plans?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Breaking: NY Daily News: Someone has Flipped inside the WH

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

WMD connection theory, Part I:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

WMD connection theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

more WMD connection theory:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Link to Peace Patriot's post above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Hmmm. I see sequel to Bourne Supremacy here. Get me rewrite!

Quote from an overlooked post in the above thread:

"Wash. Post interviewed an admin. official who said they'd considered it. I read this article about a year ago. The official was unnamed, of course - but he admitted that there'd been discussion about simply smuggling WMD into Iraq as it was becoming clear that there was none to be found there. Essentially, he said they didn't do it for fear of getting caught. I wish I could find that article now. I'll keep looking."

FOR FEAR OF GETTING CAUGHT -- could this be when they heard about Kelly? Explaining why similar action was not taken this side of the Atlantic -- the Administration had to focus on calling off the operation because Kelly blew the whistle inside closed doors??

I hate to sound like a nut, but it's really not hard to believe that the current Admin would do something like this. They aren't hard core enough to "suicide" someone on this side of the Atlantic -- too many "white hats" in the US security services, and I don't think anyone in the Administration is sufficiently amoral for that. But engage their disgraced Iran Contra folks to engage in a bit of planted evidence? The Niger docs point to a willingness to engage in what is in fact a standard nonviolent tactic in black ops skullduggery - planting evidence to justify action against a "bad man".
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
29. this is my favorite part:
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 07:31 AM by FLDem5
<snip>
"According to a source in the Italian embassy, Patrick J. "Bulldog" Fitzgerald asked for and "has finally been given a full copy of the Italian parliamentary oversight report on the forged Niger uranium document," the former CIA officer tells me:

"Previous versions of the report were redacted and had all the names removed, though it was possible to guess who was involved. This version names Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi."


Anyone here remember "Curveball" the infamous Chalabi aide who gave oodles and oodles of bullshit testimony about the WMD program??!


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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. I found this bit of serious interest...
"Previous versions of the report were redacted and had all the names removed, though it was possible to guess who was involved. This version names Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi."


So did Judy.... so did many many others, meanwhile we 10 percenters (fallacy that that is) we're doing our damndest to get people to understand the guy was a con artists of the highest order. Another thing the neo-cons, the media, and a few Dems never bothered with and now hundreds of thousands of extra dead people hang over our heads. Millions more suffereing way more needlessly than they should be. More seriously trained terrorists than ever before. The topper is that every intel agency and anti US org. on Earth has seen the ass side of our military they know our weaknesses and we are going to be severely screwed if we have to enter any other conflict now. Generational pay back is on its way... and it will be very very ugly.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
32. What a Choice Crew (Same Old One)
" Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi."
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MN ChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
34. Ho-lee $hit
This is truly HUGH111!!1. IF this can be proven (and if Fitz already has the unredacted Italian report, he will do his damndest to do so), there will be a lot of people swinging from the gallows. This is flat out treason. This would have been totally unfathomable in any other administration. Nixon never dreamed of such an insane scheme of lies.
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Huge, indeed!
It makes you wonder if they felt the more intricate the web, the harder to get to its core?

I also find it interesting that the Iran/Contra issue keeps popping up. The rotten apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Poppa must be awfully proud.

I don't think anyone alive could have the imagination to write the script for this "real-life movie"--it certainly would take more than one of epic proportion to cover all that has happened. I am so ashamed of these people.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
40. Kick, up to the top with ya matey........ n/t
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
41. Woah ... this could be it!?
Fitzgerald's reported interest in the Italian parliamentary report indicates just how his investigation is broadening. The forgeries, the lies fed to us by Ahmed Chalabi and his fellow "heroes in error," the leakage of vital U.S. secrets to the Iranians all point to the existence of the conspiracy the prosecutor is tasked with uncovering. In the course of their campaign of deception, the conspirators not only outed a CIA agent who was working in the vital area of nuclear proliferation, they also passed on classified information to foreign nationals, including the Israelis and the Iranians. They committed forgery and God knows what other crimes.

I hope Raimundo is right about the direction of this investigation.

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. This article is the first time I've heard ...
that Fitz requested and got a copy of the Italian report.

If this is true, it really does confirm that the case has broadened significantly from just the outing of Plame.

Do we have another source on this tidbit?
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
44. Antiwar.com is one hell of a good website!
Kudo's to everyone involved in such a magnificent project for peace, freedom and truth.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. .
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