Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Scientists Scratch Heads Over Nutcracking Gorilla (More Intelligent Design)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:07 PM
Original message
Scientists Scratch Heads Over Nutcracking Gorilla (More Intelligent Design)
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBB98JNYEE.html

GOMA, Congo (AP) - A 2 1/2-year-old female gorilla in a Congo sanctuary is forcing scientists to reconsider what they know about tool use among gorillas.

In late September, keepers at a Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International sanctuary in this eastern Congo city saw a gorilla named Itebero smashing palm nuts between rocks using the "hammer and anvil" technique, considered among the most complex tool-use behaviors.

It had been thought that the premeditated use of stones and sticks to accomplish a task like cracking nuts was restricted to humans and the smaller, more agile chimpanzees.

Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund primatologist Patrick Mehlman said earlier this month the finding indicates complex tool use may not be a trait developed only by humans and chimpanzees and could have its origins earlier in the evolutionary chain - among ancestors common to both humans and their closest relatives, the great apes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are you implying that this is supporting intelligent design?
I don't read that at all. It just shows that Apes are smarter than people have given them credit for. Heck not to long ago they thought Gorillas wouldn't cross water, but then they witnessed them swimming across a river or something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. To creationists.
Any evidence which is new, or tends to upend science, regardless of what theory it supports or doesn't support, is automagically Creationist Science. In fact, if a single scientist says that a particular finding does not fit with established theory, the creationists will adopt it as proof that evil Darwinism is not a fact. That's the whole extent of how creationists, including IDers, do science.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I don't think so.
Tool use makes these apes look more like potential ancestors, not less.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You need to read t.o
talk.origins is a netnews group which focusses on the evolution/creation debate. The creationists there, some of whom claim scientist status, use anything like this to claim that evolution can't be fact.

Yes, I know it's rubbish, but creationists (including the IDers) are not very bright people, plus they have an agenda, plus they have an ideology. That's a very dangerous combination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. No n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. actually, tool use has been witnessed in primates for 30 years
It just takes the academic mainstream a looooong time to catch up.

Also, crows have been observed to use tools. It's a fairly basic premise when you think of it - hit this with thing and make that happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Planet of the Apes may
just be real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Evolutionary mutation at its finest; adaptation and all that...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat in Tallahassee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. so bush can crack a nut with two stones? amazing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Not so fast...
...I don't think Dubya is one of the smarter apes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. I remember a show where there were a bunch of male
anthropologists trying to interpret the fact that a female gorilla was having sex with more than one male. Lots of stuff about evolutionary theory and ideas about caring for her young, confusing the males as to parentage, etc.

Then they turned to Jane Goodall for an opinion and she said: "I think she's just having fun". :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Funny post title LOL
Thanks, I needed that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Did you know that at one time the Catholic Church dismissed
similar signs of intelligence from South Americans Indians? Said they were mimicking behavior they had seen, but they had no real intelligence of their own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alphadog Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yow
"nutcracking gorilla"

Sounds painful. :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. I saw a National Geographic show
on tool-using birds. They showed some bird using a stick to pry seeds out of a hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. A zoo in China had an ape of some type that smoked.
People would drop cigarettes and the ape would pick them up and smoke them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If he was intelligent, he would light his own smokes.
And if he was Very intelligent, he would pretend he couldn't so the keepers would light them for him. :smoke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Sep 20th 2014, 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC