WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

[TheWraith]

At least, that's the refrain I keep hearing from the people who have bit on the "bird flu" story. It's the end of the world as we know it... but I feel fine.

It stuns me that a group like DU, normally so disdainful of the media and their spin on the world, can have so many people that accept the collective national panic-mongering over bird flu as being the unvarnished truth. The sky is falling. Pandemic is imminent, millions will die, the flu is so scary, booga booga.

Those people, though, I can understand. They're just a bit too paranoid. They need to calm down, turn of the TV, and switch to decaf. The people who really worry me are the ultra-paranoids, the people insisting that the Bush administration is going to release bird flu onto the public in order to jump start a police state. These, of course, are many of the same people who said that it was absolutely certain Bush would stage a terrorist attack prior to the 2004 election, and they're not the least bit phased by the fact that all their prior predictions of doom failed to pan out. I've even seen people discussing how they're stocking up on surgical masks, canned food, bleach, and Tamiflu, as if the world were coming to an end.

You want the truth? Here's the truth. Pandemic is a big, scary word. The more the media scares people, the more people tune in past the commercial break. The more the administration talks about being prepared for bird flu, the less they have to talk about everything else--which is good for them, because for the Reverse Midas gang, "everything else" is a disaster.

The flu itself? Not so much. A few little reminders, for the people who don't know: The virus is not airborne. The virus is not capable of human-to-human transmission. The virus' ability to infect humans is extremely low. And the World Health Organization says that the danger of an actual pandemic is extremely low. So unless you're in the habit of drinking raw blood from Asian ducks, you're really quite safe. Yes, flu viruses mutate, but that's hardly the guarantee of impending devastation that some people make it out to be. Just as easily as it could become airborne, the virus could become less lethal, or even less compatible with humans.

We've been through this dance before, with Ebola, SARS, super-AIDS, and others. The reality is that in modern conditions, diseases aren't nearly as capable or scary as they used to be. Epidemics of the type seen in history are virtually impossible nowadays. Chances are that those who say otherwise are probably trying to get you to tune into the news, ignore Iraq and Rove, or else get more funding for their shiny new research lab.

So in short, relax. The world is going to keep spinning for quite some time to come. Trust me.

[cynatnite]

1. Very well said...

Even IF it were to strike here in the US and afflict humans, there are ways to beat it. While viruses are relatively untreatable, secondary complications like bacterial infections in the lungs, for example, can be fought with antibiotics.

It helps strengthen the body so it can fight off the virus.

The one thing I will not do is to get worked up over something that MAY or MAY NOT happen. It may or may not happen this year, next year or even fifty years from now.

It seems like every few years or so something comes along to scare the shit out of people. Remember the whole Tylenol scare some years ago? My mother threw out two bottles and complained to the manager of the grocery store until he pulled all the bottles off the shelf.

There is always something to be afraid of, but who wants to live afraid of it all the time?

Good post!

[Robeysays]

85. THE END IS NEIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

isn't that what the fundies always use for their reasoning?

[file83]

105. Those are "Famous Last Words"....

...Thank you folks. I'll be here all week.
Try the veal.

[MsTryska]

127. not just that.....

the End is Extremely Fucking Nigh - to quote the graffiti in 28 days later.

[Tempest]

2. Less than 100 people have died from bird flu so far

It's just another fake terrorist attack threat.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

3. Potential Talkiing Point?

Um...

From what I understand, and have heard, about the bird flu, health organizations are waiting for this virus to mutate, so as to be transmissable human-to-human.

Is that just a fancy way to say, George Bush is worried that the avian flu will, 'EVOLVE'?

Just asking.

[FM Arouet666]

7. LOL, but sad

Yes, you are correct, if the virus mutates to allow human to human transmission a pandemic is inevitable. Without a vaccine you can expect millions of victims.

I love the "evolution" punch... So fucking sad that the ignorant chimp is in charge.

[cynatnite]

10. IF it happens, there won't be millions...

unless it's in an impoverished third world country with no hope of containment.

Viruses are relatively un-treatable, but the secondary complications for the most part are. Many times bacterial infections do erupt and those can be managed with antibiotics. The body will regain it's strength to fight back in many cases.

What I'm afraid of in the way of air-borne bugs is small pox. It's been eradicated...so they say...but, that's the one we are in NO way prepared for.

[FM Arouet666]

12. I have to disagree

If the U.S. is hit with a virulent flu without a vaccine you will see large numbers of people which will develop ARDS, adult respiratory distress syndrome, many requiring placement on a ventilator. There is no miracle here, the reality is we will be faced with maximum capacity in our hospital ICUs. We have a finite number of doctors, nurses and ICU equipment to deal with a virus which, to date, has a 50-60% mortality rate. You will see millions of deaths if the mutated H5N1 virus strikes without a vaccine in U.S. As for the rest of the world, this could be devastating pandemic.

Do not under estimate the risk thinking that modern medicine will be able to control this threat.

[cynatnite]

13. This is all based on MAY or MAY NOT...

We can run around and cry the sky is falling all we like, but no one knows if this will happen or if it does...when.

They don't know if they can even make a vaccine that will work for this particular strain. They don't know if it will mutate or how it will be transmitted from one person to the next.

They don't know shit.

Why should I take any of that seriously? I could get hit by a car, struck by lightening or any millions of other things. The planet could get hit by an unforseen asteroid.

This isn't about underestimating anything. This is about keeping a level head about what we know and don't know. Right now, the don't knows have it and I see no reason to let the fear of the unknown take over.

[FM Arouet666]

16. Yes you could take that approach

The facts are that the influenza virus has a tendency to mutate to allow human to human transmission, the influenza virus, in its current form, is deadly.

I am not advocating losing your mind, but what I find disturbing is the number of posts that suggest that we should refuse vaccination, that Bush will intentionally infect the U.S. and that this is no big deal, "Hey, I had the flu as a kid, and I survived.

[cynatnite]

18. I've never read posts advocating refusing vaccination...

I could have missed them, too, since I haven't been around much in the last few days.

Influenza and just about any other bug out there can mutate. Yes, it's a possibility. Will it happen? No one knows and no one can predict if, when or how.

As far as vaccinations go, I know plenty of people who refuse them all and won't allow their children to be vaccinated for valid reasons.

[tavalon]

56. Very valid reasons not to vaccinate children to the degree we do now

But that's a whole other can of worms.

If this Avian flu gives us a couple of years and there is a distinct possibility it will, we could have a vaccine for it. If it happens this year (blessedly unlikely but not impossible) there won't be one, period. If they get a vaccine for this one, my family will all get one, even if they put their happy horseshit stupid preservative in it.

[kestrel91316]

73. You have missed a lot. There are many who say the vaccines

will either NOT work, or are dangerous, or that they are a violation of a person's constitutional rights. Starting to sound like FR around here with the pervasive contempt for critical thinking and objective scientific facts...........

[ClintonTyree]

20. For the same reason people didn't take AIDS seriously......

when it first showed up. People just laughed that off and wondered why they should "take it seriously" as well. Until people educated themselves about AIDS it was just dismissed much as you're dismissing the avian flu. Hey, I'm as prepared as I can be for it but I'm not going to live my life in fear of getting it, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and "not take it seriously" though.

[cynatnite]

21. I'm not saying to not take it seriously...

I was very concerned which is why I educated myself. I found a lot of 'we don't know' during my research.

I'm not dismissing it...I'm grounded enough in reality to know that since we don't know much of anything that it's no reason for me to fall for the terra-like hype corporate media keeps pushing.

It's there. We know for a fact it's there. It could mutate...it might not. It could get transmitted to humans, it might not. It may turn into a pandemic, it might not. A vaccine based on a 1918 bug may work...it may not.

How should a person take that?

[kestrel91316]

75. Some folks STILL dismiss HIV/AIDS........... go figure.......

[tavalon]

55. The pertinent questions do not include

Will it happen? Of course a pandemic will happen. Duh. The pertinent questions include When? Answer. Who knows? What bug is going to mutate into the next pandemic? Probably Avian flu but maybe something else. What do we do when it happens? There are a whole litany of answers to that one but most will not help to any substantial degree. Why all the fear now? That's the interesting one with all sorts of political overtones.

What does taking this seriously mean to you, cynatnite? To me, it means fitting my family with respirator masks and watching so I know when to take my family out of circulation. Most important, it reminds me that human existence is very fragile and we should enjoy this and each moment given to us.

If the way you take this seriously is to ignore it, then by all means do so. Don't however, mention anything to me about the government and others not warning you. That would piss me off. You've been warned. Go do whatever you need to.

[cynatnite]

81. I'd like to know where I said I was ignoring it...

I never said that. In fact, I believe we should take it seriously, but I'm not going with corporate media's terra-like hype over something people know so little about.

Homeland security said to go buy duct tape and plastic. Maybe I should build a shelter with years of supplies, take my family and go live in it.

Humanity is faced with issues like these and others 24/7. Asteroids, lightening, getting hit by cars, heart attacks, diseases and others. The list is endless.

We take those things seriously, but most people don't live their lives in fear of it. I won't either.

[tavalon]

106. Good

As I said in another post, everyone needs a plan. Panic isn't a plan so panic shouldn't be on the list. Neither is fear. An N-95 respirator mask should probably be on the list, fear not so much.

[thinkingwoman]

131. you have respirator masks? Seriously?

Wow.

In anticipation of bird flu? or chemical attack? or what?

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. I have them, left over from when I was a volunteer medic

in a developing world country. Used them all the time with infectious patients

So I have half a box left over

<grin>

Still have some gloves too... you know the latex kind.

[thinkingwoman]

137. ah, well that makes sense

having such things and keeping them handy "just in case" makes sense.

Had you purchased them specifically for some future disaster I would have raised an eyebrow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Nah they were just plain left over

from them years of running around in a rig

now they will be useful

Oh and another use for them latex gloves, any really nasty job at home, including cooking... they are great for that too

[thinkingwoman]

145. I use latex gloves

for gardening. I'm allergic to poison ivy but I hate gardening gloves because I can't feel the soil and the plants.

[tavalon]

144. You're imagining something different from what they are

They look very similar to regular masks that you would see in an operating room but they seal completely around the nose and mouth (under the chin). The ones I have are ones we jokingly call the duckbills because they're orange and they stick out like duck bills. They block viral particles and are used most often within my job when I work with someone with tuberculosis.

I think you're thinking of gas masks. I don't have them. I'm not at all sure that the ones I have would work for chemical attack. Yes, I have them for flu and have stocked them specifically this year for the possible/probable avian flu pandemic.

[thinkingwoman]

146. oh, thanks for correcting me

you're right, I had the wrong image in mind.

[kestrel91316]

72. "They don't know shit" - oh really?

Do you actually mean to say that scientists are stupid? That you know just as much as they do? This means either years of study of immunology, virology, epidemiology, and pathology were a complete waste and fraud perpetrated on the students? That universities teach nothing? That university students and doctors at the post-graduate level learn nothing whatsoever?????

Or maybe you mean that you, with little or no medical or science education, know just as much as the scientists, if not more?



I expect this from fundies, Christofascists, and Freepers. I expect better from DUers.

[cynatnite]

82. They don't know all that much...

That's a fact.

What shocks me is that so many are taking corporate media's terra-like hype over this so seriously.

It may or may not mutate, it may or may not go to humans, it may or may not become a pandemic and more. Even the most basic of research can tell you this.

There are things they do know, but what they don't know far outweighs anything else. That alone should make me very afraid for me and my family. Considering all the horrible things humanity faces every minute of every day I prefer to keep it in perspective by not going over-reacting.

[kestrel91316]

107. Who says I'm overreacting???

I am encouraging concern and caution, not panic. I think people should behave sensibly and responsibly. I think we need a vaccine for H5N1, and we need Tamiflu available, and we need to teach people about basic common sense hygiene. I also think the Bush administration is perfectly willing to exploit this situation and any other societal disruption for its own purposes, whatever those may be. We need to point out those who spread misinformation, either deliberately or unwittingly, and correct them.

This is overreacting???

[YapiYapo]

112. Read world press.

It's just not in the US ,scientists in rest of the world are very worried about the flu.

Many european scientist beleive there are good chance of virus mutation and thus a pandemic, it's not a matter of IF but a matter of when.
That being said there are no reason to panic i agree but you shouldn't dismiss science and scientist simply because they may not know everything.

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. No your job is not to worst case it

that is he job of the CDC and the WHO... they have.

At one point the WHO's worst case included the number 1 Billion, they have downgraded it to 100 million....

The CDC at one point included half of the US Population, now it is down to 25%.

What YOU can do though is not put your head in the sand, and join the flat earthers who deny global warming, and just be ready with what you can do.... wash hands, avoid exposure and not believe everything coming from these people is meant to terrarize. Granted, if it is leaving Bush's mouth, it is meant to terrorize. My choice of info is the WHO... I monitor them, and they have said, it is not YET time to panic, not until it makes that jump. that is why many a domestic bird is paying the price right as I type this in Romania and Turkey and now Greece.

[tavalon]

53. Yep

That's my talking point to a T. I'm a member of that very group, the healthcare system. The healthcare system is so broken and so overworked and understaffed and under equipmentized, that we couldn't even handle a bad flu year. A pandemic we will not survive, we being the American healthcare system. I, for one, will opt out when this one comes around. I love to take care of people but don't care to go down with the ship and it will go down like the titanic.

When the pandemic hits, whether avian flu or something else, my family and I will go to ground. I won't be able to save many by staying anyway.

On edit: I hate the BFEE, but I'm not going to rake them over the coals for this one. No government will be able to handle this one and incompetence may mean thousands more dead but while each human is important to certain other humans, thousands in the context of millions is inconsequential. They could be the most uber competent of administrations and they will not be able to save us from this one.

In other words, there is no need to spend much time on this one because we can't stop it and we can't much ameliorate it's effects. We don't even have a clue when the scythe will come down. That it will come down is unquestionable to all but those who need the sand in their ears but when? Who knows?

[kestrel91316]

70. Facts are of no interest to these people with the

hermetically sealed minds.

[kestrel91316]

69. Nobody has ever been able to "contain" flu. It's WAY too highly

contagious, lol. Show me ONE example where a strain of flu was stopped from becoming worldwide in time.

Waiting.........

Still waiting.......

Thought so.

[FM Arouet666]

5. Yes, that is true

The virus currently infects from bird to human. If you do not come in contact with birds, there is very little chance to be infected. However, the influenza virus has a tendency to mutate and become a human to human disease. This is not your childhood disease, the mortality for bird flu is around 50%. Yes, mutating to human to human transmission might decrease the virulence, but it will still be a deadly infection.

I wouldn't underestimate this disease. Yes, Bush is an Asshole and is politicizing the risk, but the risk is real.

[cynatnite]

8. It's all based on 'may or may not'...

It's like rolling craps. You never know how the dice are going to fall.

Sure, keep an eye on it and most scientists will look at this with the worst case scenario in mind no matter the chances of it getting that bad aren't that high. No one knows what's going to happen. We could get hit by an asteroid, there could be earthquakes, or any other disasters that can't be predicted with any degree of certainty. As humans, we take our chances 24/7 with every breath.



Corporate media has ran with this thing like it's 'terra...terra...terra'.

And again, they do next to nothing to educate the public.

[tavalon]

57. Nope

It's a when game and when it does happen, what the bug will be. It is not a may or may not. That would be the ultimate human hubris and goodness knows, we are guilty of hubris.

[FM Arouet666]

110. Yes and no...

I agree, this administration will politicize the issue to a point where the average American is scared to tears. However, I think you are in error regarding the 'may or may not' statement. I have discussed the avian flu issue with infectious disease specialists and read articles both of which suggest that it is not a question of 'if' but 'when' the virus mutates to allow human to human transmission.

Without a vaccine, the chances of a devastating pandemic are real. Yes no one knows what will happen, but your analogy equates asteroids and earthquakes to the bird flu. I think that is deceptive. The probability of an asteroid hitting the earth in our life time is tiny, the odds of the avian virus mutating is much greater.

Do not discount a real health issue just because an incompetent administration is bent on using the issue for its own gain.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. You know the WHO at one point had a worst case of

1 billion people dead, don't you? Now the number is down to 100 million

You are also aware we are well overdue to a world pandemic?

Keep thinking this is rolling dice and the government is trying to scare ya ok.

Welcome to the flat earthier club, left leaning division, you know there is no global warming either.

[Tempest]

9. I can't remember the number of mutations we've been warned of

Back in the 1950s there was another mutation from a potent viral strain we were supposed to be scared of. It never happened.

Then there was the mad cow disease we were supposed to be scared of. Never happened.


The path of history is paved with things we were warned about and never came to pass.

[FM Arouet666]

14. I agree

Believe me I AGREE, my wife will not let me eat beef because of the mad cow business. I have to smuggle beef into the house under cover of the night. She found a few beef burritos I hid in the freezer and tossed them in the trash.

However, influenza is a scary virus. This scenario is not new, the virus has been seen in animals before, mutated, and caused devastating pandemics. Yes, Bush is using the issue for political gain, but the risk is real.

Lets say the virus hits the U.S. without a vaccine. A large number of people will develop pulmonary complications which require placement on a ventilator. That is a finite resource. No ventilator, the patient dies. Modern medicine has very little to offer against a viral infection.

[Tempest]

29. I'm going to have to put this up there with getting hit by a meteor

Sure, it could happen.

But realistically, what are the chances?

[nashbridges]

40. Realistically

Every single flu virus in the history of the world starts in birds. Look it up. The 1918 influenza outbreak originated in birds, and it took only a year to spread worldwide.

The point is not "Will it happen?" The point is the be prepared when it does. Antibiotics and Antivirals will not fight the infection. It roots too deeply into the lungs to be eradicated, even for healthy humans.

[Tempest]

42. If it's alright with you 'all

I'll worry about things that have a good chance of happening.

Like my heating bills skyrocketing this winter.

[smoogatz]

45. Apparently some antivirals are effective.

Antibiotics are never effective against viral infections.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Antibiotics are used to treat the penumonia

(bacterial) that comes with it, secondary or oportuniistic infections

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Antibiotics are used to treat the oportunistic

infections such as the ever so popular pneumonia

[tavalon]

60. Far lower than that we will have a pandemic

in the next ten years.

[Silverhair]

97. The chances are very high. NT

[FM Arouet666]

111. Actually, the chances are very significant.

Influenza should be renamed something which gets your attention. When you hear 'flu' you think of sitting at home in your jammies watching soap operas, thinking "boy, I feel crappy, but at least I am off work."

Lets name it, the "black death" Opps, been taken. So what should we call a highly contagious infection which kill 50-60% of those afflicted. And remember, these are not the elderly and infirm, these are young healthy adults....

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Realisticvally much higher than a meteo.. look

we are hit by a very bad pandemic every 100 years and by a less bad one every 20 or so, look it up, we are well overdue

[tavalon]

59. It is also paved with Hurricane Katrinas

Which we were most assuredly warned about.

[Silverhair]

96. And it is also paved with warnings that were ignored...

...and the disaster struck.

Before Katrina hit, there were many DU posters who where saying, "Why all the scarry posts. It is just a hurricane and we get hit somewhere every year by a hurricane." Do you remember those posts?

[raccoon]

138. There was also swine flu back in the '70's. nt

[FM Arouet666]

4. I agree with you for the most part, but the flu is a serious threat.

Yes, the WHO has stated that, in the current form, the virus has a very low risk to the world population. However, the history of influenza suggests that the virus has a proclivity toward mutating to a form in which human to human infection will be possible.

Yes a risk, but not the end of the world if we prepare for the occurrence. Without a vaccine, a mutated H5N1 pandemic will kill millions. Yes, I had the flu as a child, but this is not an ordinary flu. The virus has 50-60% mortality, and many of those are young healthy individuals.

Vaccines are currently being tested, the question is will they be manufactured before the virus mutates and will they be effective.

As for the ultra-paranoids, I agree, too much . However, we should not underestimate the risk just because a purulent administration proposed the issue and because a few woo woos have taken to hysterics.

[UncleSepp]

34. Love your sig line! n/t

[tavalon]

61. In the current form is the operative statement there

pretty much what you said.

[kestrel91316]

76. Look out! You want to be careful citing the evil W.H.O. around these parts

plenty of "DUers" will jump all over you. Don't you know W.H.O. faked all the statistics and data about not only this H5N1 but all the other flu historically, and other infectious diseases, too??

[depakid]

6. The reality is

that this post is reactionary and hopelessly out of touch with the actual science (not to mention with every other Western country that's had their pandemic contingency plans in place for quite a while now).

It doesn't, however surprise me that you feel the need to rant about this- there are plenty of people who go off of the deep end to the other side, too- about lots of things. Peak oil, for example. Even so, that's no reason to naysay about what the scientific consensus agrees is a real concern.

Perhaps you might like to pay a visit to a couple of other countries, and see what responsible public health officials there are doing:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndStatistics/Publicat...

http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/0/5f5694e4a5736dd2cc256c...

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/cpip-pclcpi /

[drduffy]

25. disagree with you about peak oil...

if you are going to toss in an epithet like that you should be prepared to argue dismissing its validity.

[depakid]

26. I don't dismiss it!

I just realize that it's a long term, systemic problem that's foolish to address with alarmism and hoarding behavior! We're not running out of petroleum next year- or even in 10 years, although we can count on the price (in terms of the moving average) going steadily up.

As with the potential pandemic, it's a matter of making sensible plans & preparations.

[drduffy]

62. the issue isn't one of 'running out'

see:

http://www.acus.org/docs/051007-Hirsch_World_Oil_Produc...

and even more importantly:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net /

and also do a google on the oil bourse regarding Iran and

Saddam's switch to the Euro as one of the reasons we invaded Iraq

It's all about the 'petro' dollar, the euro, and pending 'economic' collapse.... that's what'll get you.

[Spinzonner]

11. And the 1918 Pandemic was a hoax

Are you one of those 'Pandemic Deniers'

[FM Arouet666]

15. Good point

I wish people would look at the history of the influenza virus. Too many people look at the "flu" as some kind of nuisance disease, a few Tylenol Pms and some chicken soup and all will be well. Cowpucky.

[Tempest]

33. Oh please

WWI and the living conditions it created had more to do with the outbreak than anything else.

The general belief is that the virus was spread by returning soldiers from the war whose immune systems had been compromised.

Those primitive conditions don't exist anymore, not even in war.

[depakid]

38. Reread your history

and take a look at the epi and mortality curves.

You're about as far off the mark as you can get. The Avian influenza of 1918 killed healthy people in the prime of life- and the only thinh WW I had to do with it was allowing it to spread relatively quickly through a society without air travel. The world was a much bigger place in those days...

http://www.cste.org/04flu/pcw/Section%203%20Related%20A...

[Tempest]

43. Strawman

I never said anything about who the outbreak killed.

>>and the only thinh WW I had to do with it was allowing it to spread relatively quickly through a society without air travel<<

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!


Jeesh.

[depakid]

48. Hardly!

Your implication was that weakened immune systems contributed to either the outbreak or spread of disease, and that's simply not in accordance with the epidemiological evidence.

Also, in a previous post you mentioned an outbreak you were supposed to be scared of in the 50's that supposedly never materialized.

Welp, you're wrong again.

1957-58, "Asian flu," A (H2N2) caused about 70,000 deaths in the United States. First identified in China in late February 1957, the Asian flu spread to the United States by June 1957.

It's widely recognized by public health officials as one of the 3 major influenza pandemics of the 20th Century.

[Tempest]

90. Two points

1. Epidemiological evidence doesn't point to any factor in the transmission of the virus, the technology wasn't available at the time to pinpoint it. I've read a couple of scientific papers which theorized soldiers in war areas under harse conditions became carriers.

2. There was no pre-warning for the Asian flu so it's obvious, at least to most, that I wasn't talking about it.


Am I supposed to feel insulted by your "welp" slur?

LOL! You'll have to try much, much harder than that.

[jus_the_facts]

93. Those conditions exist in South Louisiana and along the Gulf coast...

....can't tell me those evacuee's immune systems are healthy after what they've been through...and they've been bused all over the country in extremely unsanitary conditions in the shelters...on our local news they reported hearing over the PA system...a request to the evacuees to not urinate in the trash cans...thousands of people using only 3 showers at our Civic Center for at least a month...hundreds currently being housed in my area...in what they're calling the Community Residential Center...the rotting homes and debris across the Gulf States is a breeding ground for disease...currently we have soldiers returning home with compromised immune systems as well...primative conditions do exist in the USA today...and countless millions across the globe..who're dealing with famine...earthquake devistation...primative conditions are a reality.

And there's no question..in one manner or another...we're all gonna die....such is life.

[Silverhair]

The 1918 flu first started in Russell, Kansas.

It almost died there from a lack of new victims. But three men carried it to Ft. Riley, KS where it spread alarmingly. Even then it wasn't yet in a deadly form, but in a few months mutated to it's deadly form.

You really should read the history of the 1918 flu.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. It is not a belief it is called

infectious disease spread....

The earth is flat too, I guess

[WePurrsevere]

17. Agreed. Try NOT to worry, Stress & worry will weaken the immune system. So

concentrate on strengthening your bodies own natural defenses through trying to keep stress under control (try meditation), getting enough rest, eating healthy & taking healthy doses of Vit C, Zinc, Garlic, etc. (note: use of echinacea is being debated. Some swear it works, others swear it doesn't. My only advice is to not take it if you have an auto-immune disease since some studies show, and it's been my personal experience, that echinacea can rev up an already over active immune system.)

I have a friend who lived in Hong Kong and traveled extensively to and all around mainland China during the beginning of the Bird Flu there. Yes, she was concerned BUT she started a nutritional regime to strengthen her own bodies immune system and took basic medical precautions (she wore a basic med/surg mask and washed her hands often) and even after being exposed to it repeatedly never came down with it.

Although I understand being concerned... knowledge is power, fear is a killer.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. Mushroom extracts. Google medicinal mushrooms. nt.

[H2O Man]

30. I quit them

in college.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

37. Hey hey now..... not your father's mushrooms... or your roommates

either.

[WePurrsevere]

92. I've heard and read about them but haven't met anyone who has used. If you

have I'd be interested in hearing of your experiences... PM me if you'd like.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

101. Do the right thing.... READ a book by a MEDICALLY TRAINED

Doc, who flies the flag of tradional medicine.... BUT who has experienced some rather shall we say, "unusual health reversals".

The book is Sugars That Heal by Dr. Emil Mondoa. Read it, you will never look back.

[Kailassa]

47. Knowlege is power , if you have it.

Read and read, and never presume anything.

Many of those who died in 1918 were actually killed, in a matter of hours, by their own immune systems. Bird viruses infect the villi in the lungs, and if your immune system reacts healthily, the immune response itself causes the villi to swell and burst, drowning the patient in his own blood. The bulk of those who died were healthy people, between 20 and 40 years old.

The threat is very real, and if it hits hard in the next 6 months America is screwed, because it is not something your health systen atm can cope with, and anything Buschco do will only make the situation worse.

It will be important for each person to be self sufficient, and there are reasonable measures we can each take now, before forgetting about it again until, (if ever), it does hit in a contagious form.

Because of the way this virus hits, using an inhaler or even a perfume atomiser of diluted tea-treee oil could be the best way of protecting yourself, and if you have a medical strategy as well, this will not hinder it.

[WePurrsevere]

95. Oh?...

It's not that I'm not taking the threat seriously. As someone who was in the medical field I take it very seriously just as I would ANY and ALL influenza virus' which kill hundreds of thousands world wide every year and less then 40 years ago killed millions.

From what info I could find... so far this bird "flu" has killed approx 66 people world wide and this has not been through human-to-human contact but rather by eating or being otherwise in contact with a contaminated bird. Although it is possible that it MAY mutate to being transferable from human-to-human it has not yet and although it may... there is a chance that it also may not. Quite frankly given the FACTS although I can certainly understand the need for the WHO and CDC to be concerned I see no reason for Americans to panic quite yet. (particial info source: CDC - Avian Influenza (Bird Flu)

Also if you have a link to the medical data that shows what you stated about how the bird flu effects a healthy humans lungs in that manner I'd appreciate if you'd share it. If this is true it makes the bird flu type of influenza very different then other influenza's that I'm familiar with since those with healthy and strong immune systems normally are usually less prone to getting the flu or at least don't usually get it as bad.

[Kailassa]

114. Re bird-flu's effect on lungs

It is almost inevitable now that H5N1 will mutate in this way, it is gradually mutating in this direction already, each step bringing it closer. The only question is when. I'm not recommending panic, I'm not losing any sleep over it, but I am organising a few things to help protect my family. I just wish your government was doing likewise, I don't like seeing my American friends unprotected when other developed countries have all got their act together. Australia, for example, will have enough vaccine for the prerequisite 2 doses each for everyone in the country in 4-6 weeks.

…human viruses infect preferentially nonciliated cells, while avian viruses infect ciliated cells. These results support recent documentation of human infection by avian viruses.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:-2J84Q3450wJ:www.top...

Here, using cultures of differentiated human airway epithelial cells, we demonstrated that influenza viruses enter the airway epithelium through specific target cells and that there were striking differences in this respect between human and avian viruses. During the course of a single-cycle infection, human viruses preferentially infected nonciliated cells, whereas avian viruses as well as the egg-adapted human virus variant with an avian virus-like receptor specificity mainly infected ciliated cells. This pattern correlated with the predominant localization of receptors for human viruses (2-6-linked sialic acids) on nonciliated cells and of receptors for avian viruses (2-3-linked sialic acids) on ciliated cells..

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/13/4620

Regarding info about the 1918 pandemic predominantly killing the healthy 18 to 40 year olds, I'm too tired to look that up, but the info is very easy to find on the net. Their immune systems over-reacted. The age related death graph of it made a "W".

I certainly hope this doesn't happen again, and if it does, precautions we can take now may be enough to keep us all safe.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

102. Galactose.... receptors and glycoproteins.

http://www.studentsforlife.net/DrMacRobert.html


The article centered on the fact that the virus could enter a cell, but could only be released again if the specific receptor lacked a specific molecule. The receptor was a glycoprotein, the molecule was galactose, one of the eight essential sugars. Now galactose is found in milk products. I find it very interesting that there has been not one case of avian flu in a Caucasian. All the deaths have been amongst the Chinese population, who don’t take milk in their diet. This leapt out at both David and I, but I don’t think the present efforts against bird flu would make much of it! I believe that in the future, research will prove that the glyco nutritional approach will be the best way to prevent viral diseases.

[Kailassa]

113. Galactose does do a great deal, however ...

I checked out the Dr MacRobert site. He does make an awful lot of claims without giving any evidence, so anything he says is pretty suspect. Checking back, it becomes obvious this is a "snake-oil" site, existing only to help market glyconutrients, with many "doctors" making unsupportable claims.

I would have liked to believe his statement about galactose having a role to play in preventing influenza, but when he gives no source for the information and there in not one single piece of information on the net to back up his claim, one can only dismiss it as false advertising.

One's scepticism is increased by the fact that there are no reported deaths from H5N1 amongst the Chinese population at all. To date all the recorded deaths have been from Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/avia...

BTW, galactose is abundantly present in a large variety of vegetables, and is also made by your body, so avoiding dairy products should not cause a deficiency.
http://www.innvista.com/health/nutrition/essensug/galac...

[HysteryDiagnosis]

147. I see you have done your homework..... but I would differ with you

when it comes to denying what may be achieved with glyconutritionals. You may want to read Sugars That Heal, and or read the science at this site. If you don't get it.... or if it rings untrue to you.... so be it.

www.glycoscience.org

[nashbridges]

49. That advice and 5 cents

Is going to make you a nickel richer. I lived in Hong Kong for the 97 outbreak and the SARS scare, and nothing you did helped out. You either got sick or didn't. It was, just like the next outbreak will be, the luck of the draw.

[WePurrsevere]

91. YMMV... at least I'd be a "nickel RICHER" ;-)

You are entitled to your opinion and beliefs of course however my own personal/medical experience and training, etc has me believing otherwise.

Just as a weakened or undeveloped immune system makes humans and animals more prone to infections and disease, research has shown that a healthy and strong immune system has a greater chance of fighting off all kinds of medical nasties. Although there is always "the luck of the draw" as you put it even if you do get hit with any viral nasty you have a better chance of fighting it off and getting a much lighter case of it if you have a healthy and strong immune system. Add to that using a few basic med/surg techniques and it will further help prevent folks from getting sick or at least help folks not get as sick.

Being concerned and cautious is smart but lately it seems like there's a lot of panic being worked up sans real facts and that's not going to do anyone any good... well except maybe the Fundies and Bush Admin who seem to thrive on fear mongering and the control it gives them. Oh and of course the pharmacutical companies who we know only have our best interests at heart.

If anyone's interested there's a short but rather interesting discussion going on over at Democrats.org on this subject. This one in particular was interesting: Fear is the keyword

[jbnow]

22. In fact the death rate

for those who get the flu, for those who don't, for smokers and nonsmokers, the fit and the flabby is 100%.

From the day our birth announced us our death has been assured.
We are all going to die.

On the other hand "Epidemics of the type seen in history are virtually impossible nowadays." makes no sense at all.
Modern medicine has changed so much, we don't see deaths from causes that use to be common. It's easy to feel that way.
It's just that it isn't true. Modern conditions increase the chances or at least the speed of transmission of disease around the globe.

We don't know that this avian flu is it but you might want to study epidemiology, mutation of viruses and heck even increasing antibiotic resistant bacterial infections before you proclaim what's impossible these days.

[Lerkfish]

23. are bombs dangerous? yes. Is pulling a fake bomb alert a distraction? yes

I think the OP's point is that much political hay is being made over something that may or may not materialize.
That does not mean the flu is not a nasty deadly thing. It just means that Bushco is using the threat of a nasty deadly thing to distract from the present troubles they're having, with the complicit media, and the added bonus of justifying martial law.

(haven't read the entire thread, someone else might have recapsulated this point already)

[daninthemoon]

39. One day a pandemic flu will kill bunches of Americans. No-one,

least of all this anti-science administration will be able to forcast or predict when. This is a terrorist type scare tactic. It's also a media keep um scared and watching our news channel and buying our sponsors stuff type thing. When the pandemic materializes, this year or fifty years from now, then will be the time to take precautions. For now, wash your hands often, just like you should always do.

[are_we_united_yet]

24. Yes.

Everybody chill. Heart attacks and Cancer are much more deadly for the masses.

[thinkingwoman]

133. driving to the store

to stock up on supplies is pretty risky too.

[Throckmorton]

27. No man knows the hour

Let see:

I'm 50 pound over weight
Eat all the wrong foods
Get no where near enough exercise
Work in a radioactive environment on a daily basis.

But I am still alive, while my late wife was:

Skinny as a rail
A consummate vegetable lover
Road her bike 20 to 75 miles a day
Was A school Teacher in a new building
And died at 40 from a cancer that normally kills old men

As my grandfather use to say, "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die"

[itzamirakul]

31. And..."Everyone wants to live a long time but...

no one wants to get old." LOL

Truly, we ARE all going to die but not necessarily from bird flu.

We are all going to die unless someone hurries up and finds a CURE for death, itself. And I BELIEVE this CAN be done. After all, cures have been found for some of our most deadly diseases so why not a cure for death?

I just hope they hurry the fcuk up and find it before my time comes!

[lonestarnot]

52. And that does mean nobody! Good post. But the flu pandemic is

a real case scenario coming to a city near you.

[Vinca]

28. If everyone becomes a compulsive hand washer, there won't be

much of a problem. And don't put stuff in your mouths and, especially, don't wet your fingers to do things like count money (the filthiest stuff on the planet). The next time I see a grocery store cashier do that I'm going to give them the word.

[Tempest]

36. Compulsive hand washing causes its own problems

There's such a thing as being too anal retentive about cleanliness.

If you don't allow yourself to be invaded by microbes and bacteria, your body isn't given the chance to build up immunities to them.

Studies have found children who are sick the most are those who are phobic, or have phobic parents, about dirt and getting dirty.

[thinkingwoman]

134. what studies?

Got a link to those studies?

[daninthemoon]

41. Amen. I've even had doctors lick their fingers looking through charts.

How about fast food places that are health conciuos enough to supply gloves for their workers, but then you see the workers touch money and then go back to preparing food!

[rman]

32. true, the world will keep spinning without us.

[kliljedahl]

35. "Reverse Midas gang" LOL, I like that

I've always been blessed with a healthy dose of scepticism (cynicism too) & have an aversion to believing nearly anything I hear from M$M & the Bushco regime. I agree wholeheartedly with your premise & the points you made.

[malmapus]

44. Looked at your topic, shrugged and said to myself..well its true

We all all going to die at some point (unless I discover the dark secrets to make myself into a lich muahahahahahaha )


But in regards to the topic of "bird flu", very well said.

[0007]

46. This bird flu is bird shit!!

Avian Flu for Profit

In response to SARS, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, Michael Fumento, published an economic thesis in Toronto related to the one I advance here. The "Super-bug or Super Scare," he wrote was published in Canada’s National Post. Canadians were warned to "quarantine themselves," wear masks, and in some cases stay home. The Ontario Health Minister declared a "health emergency," as the media dubbed the "mysterious killer" a "super-pneumonia.” Recoiling from the hype, Fumento asked and answered a few “real questions . . . How lethal, how transmissible, and how treatable is this strain?” The answers, he concluded, “leave no grounds for excitement, much less panic.” The same may be said for this new curse of avian flu.(1)

Lethal?

At this writing, the avian flu is said to have killed “about 65 people” in Southeast Asia during the past two years! Little to no data is available on these individuals who most commonly had immune-compromising medical conditions. Further, all deaths were in Asian countries with questionable health services.

Conversely, other forms of flu kill more than 40,000 North Americans annually, generally the immune-compromised elderly.

Transmissibile?

According to USA Today (October 9, 2005), “European health officials are working to contain the virus, which so far has not infected anyone in the region.” Although, allegedly “more than 140 million birds have died or been destroyed, . . . and financial losses to the poultry sector have topped $10 billion.” This propaganda actually admits, “the current virus, known as H5N1, has not yet mutated to the point at which it can easily spread from person to person.” In fact, it is likely to have never spread from person to person other than during laboratory handling!(5)

[LynnTheDem]

50. Here we go again

Anthrax + Patriot act = constitutional rape
Bird Flu - Posse Com = constitutional rape

New math by Bush Co

[smoogatz]

51. My brother's an epidemiologist. My in-laws are both physicians.

None of them have an agenda--no grant-funded flu studies to promote, no political axes to grind, no desire to distract the public or the media from Bushco's troubles. They're worried about avian flu. Not losing sleep, yet, but definitely concerned. My brother--a very smart guy--explained to me that this strain of avian flu is a very close relative of the 1918 Spanish flu, an extremely nasty bug that killed 675,000 Americans. He says that the odds are very good that the current bug will mutate in such a way that it can be transmitted from human to human--probably in a matter of months, rather than years. In densely populated areas, a mutated flu would move very quickly from person to person, and kill within a matter of days. Old people and children would be especially vulnerable. My in-laws tell us that, at the moment, treatment options are very limited. Roche is working on a vaccine, but it will be at least a year, most likely, before a safe version is available, and who knows how long before there are enough doses to vaccinate every American. Some antivirals may be effective--but again, the number of available doses is extremely limited.

[SupplyConcerns]

66. How ignorant to consider this a Republican spin plot

It's like the people who think that Peak Oil is an oil company conspiracy - not every single problem in the world revolves around our political villians. Of course, it's pretty much f*cked that Bush is hankering to imposes martial law as soon as some people die from the flu here.

[oblivious]

99. But the bird flu's been around here in Asia for years.

Here in Hong Kong, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, etc. After all these years without mutating into a human to human form, why now is it so certain that this is going to happen in months?

I suppose it's because the WHO is trying so hard to get countries in Asia to take stronger measures to contain infected birds. This is a good thing, but it's also got people unnecessarily paranoid since it's in the news so much. There's no greater danger today than there was 3 years ago. Maybe less, since countries with the problem are taking much stronger measures to detect and contain infection now.

[Dem Agog]

54. When I said this a few days ago...

All the Chicken Littles started stampeding on me so they could keep pushing the fear.

Some people here love being victims. Some people here are addicted to fear and terror.

The real world is a scary place, but there are many DU posters who love to be scared and terrorized by Bush, Al Quaeda... you name it. They're addicted to playing the victim...

So for those people, any words of sanity or rational comments about this go right through, because to actually stop being a victim is something they can't handle.

[SidDithers]

77. And as I responded to you a few days ago...

There's a big world outside your borders, you should try learning about it. Avian flu is an international concern, and has nothing to do with your idiot President.

Sid

[Dem Agog]

79. Oh Sid...

Keep Chicken Littleing....

Be very afraid!!!! *tremble*

You and I aren't going to agree... EOD.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. I gues the WHO is in bush's back pocket too, huh?

[RagAss]

58. Bring It On...... Birds !!!!!!!

[alphafemale]

63. it would take a couple of years to mutate to human-to-human form

but the end of the world is what keeps the world turning...

bird flu isn't so tough as mad cow, though. bake the chicken in the oven as you normally would, and the virus is killed. to kill mad cow, the raw meat would need to be incinerated.

so what's the rush to build an airtight bunker in your backyard? because of the hell the media is raising about this, i tore mine down.

[BrklynLiberal]

64. Some people just need to have the curtains on fire, and if they are not

on fire, they will set them on fire themselves.

I truly believe this is primarily another attempt on the part of BushCo to keep the sheeple so scared that they will look to "Big Daddy Bush" for comfort and security.
I think that card has been overplayed now.

This is just fear mongering.

[dave123williams]

65. Yep; it's a red-herring.

[wryter2000]

67. Thank you

The Bushites are so obviously using this to distract us, and the bleating "mainstream" media are going along, as usual.

Back during SARS, someone made up a new disease called SLOP. Serious Lack of Perspective. I think we have another major pandemic of SLOP going on.

[stevietheman]

68. Agreed, very good points, but Bush is on the record for...

chomping at the bit to deploy martial law with regards to this "pandemic", even while there is pretty much nothing to it at this time. And that is indeed the scary part.

What's interesting to me is that for a President who purportedly doesn't read the newspapers or watch the news, and was so out of the loop regarding Katrina, is so up on this particular issue, as if he was watching the MSM very closely.

It leads me to believe that he actually pays close attention to how his and the MSM's fearmongering campaigns play out, and times his remarks to work into those campaigns ever so perfectly (well, perfectly from his POV).

I don't think it takes a tin-foil hat to realize that this administration is cooking something up, even if it's just a fear campaign to distract the public from Rovegate or the other administration disasters.

[gulfcoastliberal]

71. I don't think we're gonoing to make it out of here alive...

We're all going to die. Eventually. That's a fact.

As for the bird flu scare, I've made like the white house bunker and stockpiled lots of tamiflu. Hope all my brothers and sisters here on DU take similar precautions.

[KenCarson]

74. not me,.....the mother ship will save me

.

[newspeak]

78. the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

"from the moment we're born, we're dying." I'm not going to let fear overwhelm me. The moment fear is present in your psyche, your body stays stressed and in alert mode. Your brain goes into panic mode and you start losing little intelligence that you may have. If it happens, it happens. For five years, we have been into fear mode-it is unhealthy and what little rationality one may have flies out the window.

[dretceterini]

80. Maybe it's a little off the subject

but I don't mind giving all the members of Bushco the bird

[Kazak]

83. We all ARE going to die...

Of that, I am sure.

[jus_the_facts]

94. The paradox of life is grappling with the reality of death....

....and what fate one faced in their transition from one to another.

[watercolors]

84. any one remember the so called Swine Flu

It was going to be a epidemic, people were vacinated by the millions! Guess what no epidemic! Took place Regan era while Ira -Contr scandal was brewing. Does this all sound familar?

[thinkingwoman]

136. I remember. nt

[Rex]

86. It will still spin fine with or without us.

Nice rant!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Right. The 1918 Pandemic was also a myth...it didn't really happen....

...all of those unmarked trench graves outside Philadelphia and New York City don't exist either.

While I don't believe in "Chicken Little" antics, I do believe in being educated/prepared for any eventuality.

Here's a case in point:

Many folks living along the Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama Gulf Coast believed that they would never see another storm like Camille. They simply didn't prepare for a storm of that magnitude, and a good percentage of people living in those areas refused to evacuate.

A friend of mine and his family had to climb into a boat at Pass Christian as their house, one that had survived Camille, broke up around them. They were among the fortunate ones...many people along the Gulf Coast paid with their lives for either failing to heed the constant warnings, or being unable physically and/or financially to leave the area.

There's another "storm" that may be coming...and it's going to be your choice whether you heed the warnings or not.

[mainer]

104. There's a whole lotta denial here on this thread.

If and when the pandemic breaks out, there's also gonna be a whole lotta dead people who once claimed it's all a Bushco-manufactured crisis and refused to educate themselves.

There are times when social Darwinism is truly on display. And I'm afraid I see it right here on DU, by uneducated and ignorant people who refuse to read the medical literature or understand exactly how dangerous a flu pandemic can be.

No, we do NOT have a vaccine. It will take a minimum of 6 months to manufacture, once the mutated form finally asserts itself.

Yes, the flu will kill young and old alike. Eating vegetables and taking vitamins and "living healthy" will not protect you. This is sheer hippie delusion. Your own immune system may be your downfall.

No, we do NOT have immunity to it. (How many of us were alive in 1918?!!)

Yes, it could kill millions.

No, the government will not be there for you.

That said, it's not the time to panic. It's the time to have a family plan as to how to react, a little like having a family evacuation plan in event of a fire. Keep your kids home from school. Stay home from work, if you can. Wash your hands. Paper surgical masks will not filter out viruses, but they will filter out sputum droplets -- if you're sick, WEAR ONE so you won't infect others. Have enough food on hand so that you will manage despite an interruption in food transport. Be prepared for energy blackouts. If you live in a cold climate, do you have a wood stove -- and wood? Do you have a clean water supply? Avoid all public assemblies.

Remember Katrina. And how thousands of residents of New Orleans could not imagine the levees breaking.

[newspeak]

109. so... what are you going to do about?

healthy and unhealthy people will die--meat eaters and vegetarians will die--people in their prime, young, old will die----antibiotics don't work---fear, fear, fear for something that we cannot control----GOD if it happens, it happens--if it doesn't, it doesn't---just what are we supposed to do about it, except worry? and will those vaccinations react like the anthrax vaccinations, will they even work?

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. Does the flu vaccine work every year

The way you manufacture that flu vaccine and this one is the same way essencially... and by the way ... this is where the miliary has a role

It is called Fort Dietrich and it is on of the many Level One bio labs in the country, which can and should be used to sequence this to make the vaccine.

It has another role, just like 1918... medical units to reinforce local medical as our civilian medical network WILL BE overwhelmed.

And there are things yuo can do, suuch as try not to spread it if you are sick...

[Silverhair]

115. There is a mask that filters out flu viruses, and not expensive either.

http://birdfluprotection.com /

It would be nice to see independent verification that they work as advertised.

[gkhouston]

140. for $9.95? I'm extremely doubtful.

I think the N95 masks are supposed to work for viruses and they look a lot more, um, industrial and uncomfortable than that and they have to be properly fitted to work. That said, a mask will keep someone who has the flu (and may not know it yet) from infecting others and it will remind you not to touch your own nose and mouth (reducing somewhat your chances of infection), so the money wouldn't be completely wasted.

[Bluebear]

88. Yes, it's all the media. The medical community denies it ALL!

No immunoligists or epedemiologists have spoken on the subject, it is all a Bush diversion popularized by FOX.

[progressive_realist]

89. I think both sides of this issue are misleading.

Should the average person be worried about avian flu? Absolutely not. At this exact moment in time, H5N1 is not dangerous to humans, and nobody knows exactly when it will become so.

Should the WHO, various governments, and health professionals be worried about avian flu? Absolutely. Based on prior behavior of influenza and records of the 1918 pandemic, there is every reason to believe that H5N1 will become very dangerous at some future point in time.

The only reason SARS and other "scary" threats of the past failed to materialize is that the appropriate professionals took the appropriate steps to contain the threat. Considering that Vietnam has already developed a preliminary vaccine, and that reconstruction of the 1918 virus may allow scientists to develop a better vaccine preemptively, it is possible that avian flu will never become a serious threat to humans.

However, if we as a society did nothing to prepare for it, it is a certainty that millions would die in the inevitable pandemic.

The scare-mongering by the * administration and the media doesn't benefit anyone, but saying that there is no problem is not exactly truthful either.

[oblivious]

100. Thank you for that sensible comment.

[thinkingwoman]

132. thank for being

a voice of reason.

I wonder why some people are so quick to assume that the same precautions and steps taken to contain the threat of SARS and other recent "scares" suddenly won't be taken with bird flu? Is it because Bush's cronies forgot how to deal with the aftermath of a hurricane? Big deal Bush doesn't run the WHO.

[mistertrickster]

98. I think it's bullshit. 1. We have vaccines now. In 1918, they didn't.

2. If it really is similar to the 1918 strain, that's fine, because we've all got some immunity to it. After all, it's been around since, uh, 1918!
3. The state of medicine today is light-years ahead of where it was in 1918. They didn't have penicillian for God's sake.

Get a grip, people. It's another "orange alert" or missing "blond girl."

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. No we don't

here is the little thing about flu

1.- Vaccines are produced every year, for a DIFFERENT strain

2.- THey are the best guess, but the HSN 1 has not mutated enough to allow for vaccine production

3.- We will only be able to produce a vaccine for this particular strain once it jumps the species barrier and it is able to pass from person to person reliably

take a virology class, may get you off the flat earthier party

[mistertrickster]

148. Flat earther . . . c'mon . . .

You're right, it'll take a while to develop a vaccine.

But the idea that millions in the US are going to die before we get a vaccine developed is ridiculous.

Millions may die in other places around the world, I'll grant you that.

[kohodog]

103. That is with out a doubt true.

But Bird Flu????

Probably better odds at getting hit by a bus.

On a serious note, how these "compassionate conservatives" allow Roche to keep other companies from making the drug that may save millions?? Theywant to bring in the marines to quarantine people, but not to help them? wtf?

[Jose Diablo]

108. Who you callin' paranoid?

You're with the others, aren't you?

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

116. My free local paper

which normally deals with council disputes, planning controversies & other such trivia had a front page last week completely covered with a headline like "BIRD FLU COULD WIPE OUT CITY" (okay, it was a bit toned down than that, but still).

[Avalux]

117. SIGH

It's dangerous to post information on such a subject claiming truth when the info presented isn't accurate. I get very irritated when people who have no training in this field write as if they're experts on the subject.

It's a disservice and misleading to everyone on DU.

[meow mix]

121. agree. and its mocking those who are already dead

people, birds...

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. I don't beleive the US Government

but if you choose to ignore the science and the World Health Organization that is YOUR prerrogative... reminds me of right wingers gonig, there is no global warming. Welcome to the Flat Earther's club, Left leaning division.

By the way, don't panic, just pay attention.

[ChickMagic]

120. Every time we see a chicken on TV

We start yelling "Booga booga!" We do that for a while until we graduate to calling each other "stinky britches".

A pandemic will occur at some point, that's a certainty. I lived through one in the 50's and it was brutal. Every case of avian flu has to be taken seriously, but the media is out of control.

[tlsmith1963]

128. They Are Just Trying to Scare People

I'm not saying that bird flu couldn't kill some people, but Bush & the others love to keep people scared. I am convinced 100% that they are behind this nonstop, over the top media coverage . One reason I want them gone--I'm sick of being scared.

Tammy

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. So the World Health Organization is in Bush's back pocket

So are the folks with public health in Turkey, Greece and Romania who have identified it in their bird population?

Look one thing is bush, but accusing the WHO of trying to scare people is akin to the flat earhters on the other side going, there is no global warming

What part of.... we have a pandemic every so often, they all start in birds, and we are overdue are you missing?

Will bush take advantage? You can bet your sweet tush... can it be bad?

Ask the WHO... their original worst case included one BILLION people dead, they have downgraded the risk to 100 million people...

[greygandalf]

142. Hurricane Katrina was all just an attempt to create fear. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

149. Oh, sometimes they like the media spin

if it spins against a Dem they don't like, they swallow the koolade gladly. Couldn't ever figure that one out.