Can you *envision* enduring a (US-generated) bird flu pandemic...

[Lori Price CLG]

...trapped in the Bush-Rumsfeld police state? The New Orleans Superdome was FEMA's little experiment. Wait until the armed terrorists from Blackwater USA start patrolling neighborhoods in tandem with federal troops to enforce the quarantines and deportations to FEMA's concentration camps... Lock & Load.

Reconstructed 1918 killer flu similar to H5N1 strain 14 Oct 2005 The deadly H5N1 avian influenza virus is hitting bird populations at Europe's easternmost borders just as new research suggests that the virus could jump to humans more easily than was first thought. A reconstruction of the strain that caused the influenza pandemic of 1918, which killed around 50 million people, shows that it shares several characteristics with H5N1 . (Right, that's because the Bush bioiterror teams reconstructed it. *Duh.*)

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

[beam me up scottie]

1. So you're saying scientists who worked on the reconstruction are lying?

:eyes:

[Lori Price CLG]

6. Uh, the ones still alive? Or, any of these:

List of Dead Scientists (78 on the list)

Here's an interesting case:
#48: Robert Shope, age 74. Died: January 23, 2004. Virus Expert Who Warned of Epidemics, Dies died of lung transplant complications. Later purported to have died of Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis which can be caused by either environmental stimulus or a VIRUS. It would not be hard to administer a drug that would cause Dr. Shope's lung transplant to either be rejected or to cause complications from the transplant. Dr. Shope led the group of scientists who had an 11 MILLION dollar fed grant to ensure the new lab would keep in the nasty bugs. Dr. Shope also met with and worked with Dr. Mike Kiley on the UTMB Galveston lab upgrade to BSL 4. When the upgrade would be complete the lab will host the most hazardous pathogens known to man especially tropical and emerging diseases as well as bioweapons.

Lori Price

[beam me up scottie]

9. Oh brother. The dead micro biologists.

It just gets better and better.

Personally, I hope all paranoid conspiracy woo woos and anti vac people who don't take this seriously take the evolutionary route if the pandemic occurs.

The addition of the vast amount of non-critical thinkers to list of Darwin Award winners would have an overall beneficial effect on the gene pool.

Hopefully they won't be responsible for killing too many innocent people.

Nothing personal, of course.

[kestrel91316]

19. Yeah. What scottie said.

[TheWraith]

86. AGE 74.

If you do the math, you'd notice that many prominent scientists are quite old, because it takes forever to rise to prominence in the academic community. Also, considering the number of scientists in the world and how broad the criteria is for inclusion on that list, it's hardly surprising and not at all suspicious that almost 80 scientists of note have died in the past 5 years. That's just over 15 per year, worldwide. When you filter out the strokes and deaths from old age that number drops even farther.

So what you have right here is a 74 year old man who had a lung transplant, then died of complications. How is this suspicious? Because there's an implication of a rumor of an idea that maybe he died from something related to a virus? If your theoretical conspirators are that subtle, why are there other supposed murders on that list where the person was stabbed or shot? Most of the information on that list is highly suspect and heavily slanted. It's also overexaggerated because it's all piled together in one place, with no mention of the thousands and thousands of other scientists who are perfectly healthy. I dare say that if you went back to 2000 and earlier, you would also find some "unusual" deaths of scientists. It's a matter of percentages.

[kestrel91316]

18. Oh boy.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Wonder how much it cost to bribe all those healthcare professionals into violating every ethical principle known to man???

[beam me up scottie]

25. These people are willing to risk the lives of millions of people

to convert others.

I have a real problem with people who politicize this issue, be they from the right or the left.

People will DIE from believing in misinformation.

It's criminal.

[kestrel91316]

34. Yep. Or at the very least, disgracefully willful ignorance.

[beam me up scottie]

35. The measles outbreak in Philly

in the 80's killed several infants who hadn't been vaccinated yet.

Their parents weren't part of the cult that didn't "believe" in vaccinations.

They just happened to be infected by the children of the cult when they went out in public.
:mad:

[kestrel91316]

44. You are in BIG trouble now. there are folks here on DU who will

jump all over you for saying such a thing.

There are NO ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES FOR ANYONE if somebody else doesn't get vaccinated.:sarcasm:


Edit - forgot sarcasm

[beam me up scottie]

48. Oh, I'm "a veteran of a thousand physic wars"

as the song goes.

At least on DU and especially after Kennedy chipped in his two cents.

I lost a lot of respect for him after that.


It's easy to see why the reich wing has been able to take control of our country.

Woo woo thinking plays right into their hands.

Some people suspect that they send plants to left leaning web sites to "infect" them with these conspiracy theories.

[kestrel91316]

52. This would explain something I encountered.

"Some people suspect that they send plants to left leaning web sites to "infect" them with these conspiracy theories."

Had a poster claiming nonsense about epidemiology, who seemed unlike most DUers, was ranting about personal freedoms being the be-all and end-all, had a real serious "who gives a damn about anybody else" attitude. I suspect the poster is a Libertarian at least, and a Freeper at worst.

[beam me up scottie]

57. I have a friend who has access to

data that tracks some of these people.

I am, of course, skeptical, but it would explain their motivation to "convert" others.

I've always been puzzled by that.

They remind me of rabid religious fundamentalists or patriots who use the same "You're either with us or against us" dogma.

[kestrel91316]

63. I don't even think they believe their own stuff. I think it is just

deliberately disruptive, or flamebait, or whatever. They may also have more sinister motives, since some of the advice, if followed, could cause illness, injury, death, or other serious harm.

[willing dwarf]

49. A little background on that measles outbreak

I had friends who lost kids in that outbreak ( I believe it was 1990). The Church, Faith Tabernacle, that lost kids, didn't believe in doctors or medicine (like the Amish, but in the city). I had friends who lost two children-- they weren't vaccinated because of their faith. Since then, a lot of those families have left the church. The family I knew lost the dad to a disease not much later. Needless to say these families have lots of kids, lots of unnamed diseases, lots of difficulties. At the same time, they are some of the most whole and happy people I know.

[beam me up scottie]

53. This would have been late 80's, maybe 1990.

I had articles on it but recently lost everything on my hard drive.

I can do a search if you like.

I was living in Allentown and remember fighting with my fundie mother in law about the irresponsibility of these people.

And IIRC, they are nothing like the Amish.

[Deja Q]

2. I no longer care.

I could be hit by a bus tomorrow.

I'm sick of a society that promotes fear that I'd drink myself into an eternal coma first.

Get people to hide in fear and eventually they'll find ways of getting around the fear. It's likely the same thing as trapping a starving animal in a corner.

The difference is, I know we're all going to die at some point. I mean, we're not immortal - unless you know a secret?

May as well live HAPPY while we can.

It's a simple enough conclusion.

[willing dwarf]

11. Some light

HypnoToad, I don't know if your as low as you sound, but I've been there, often am, and when I am, I'm glad to hear from others about how important it is to hand in there. That said, I repsectfully say this: it's very hard living now, knowing what we know, and seeing the consequences play out before our eyes like a vicious card game being played with a stacked deck.

And while giving up hope, giving in to that sense of hopelessness is appealing because it hurts less than trying to fight for a better future, we all need each other to stay in this and work for change.

If you're feeling rally hopeless, and there's nothing you can do, I respectfully suggest you find someone close to you who needs a hand, whether it's the homeless guy on the corner, or the kid who lives down the street who is learning to ride a bike, or you grandmother who can't mow her own lawn anymore...the world needs each of us to be engaged in small and enormous acts of caring and selflessness. I sincerely believe that as long as we are for each other, the forces of greed and imprisonment will never hold us captive. Best wishes.

[FM Arouet666]

3. I hate conspiracy theories.

Ok, what is your evidence for this post?

[Lori Price CLG]

8. Regardless of 'conspiracy,' do you think Bush will NOT use the...

military to enforce quarantines and curfews, if *one* case of bird flu hits US shores?
C'mon. Dictator Bush is *dying* to eliminate Posse Comitatus.

Lori Price

[carols]

20. The Bush administration is famous for making shit up to get what they want

"A spokesman for the World Health Organisation insisted the risk of human infection was 'very low'."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/story/0,14207,1592238,00.html?gusrc=rss

So why would the Bush administration be talking about pandemics, etc. if they weren't using it to
a) push unnecessary vaccinations to boost the bottom line of Big Pharma
and/or
b) become El Presidente for Life by pushing for martial law...there isn't enough electoral fraud in the world to get him a third term...or to install one of his cronies.
Lori is right...they are just trying to scare-monger their way to perpetual power.

[beam me up scottie]

31. "Big Pharma" doesn't make money on vaccinations.

Or didn't you know that?

And the WHO does NOT support what the op is claiming so please stop misrepresenting them.

[Lori Price CLG]

37. Thanks. I just wish those who couch their true Reichwing proclivities...

would stop promoting Freeper philosophy by trashing every theory/notion that (properly) connects the Bush terror team with all of these countless coincidences that always seem to result in the Bush regime gaining more power.

Lori Price

[beam me up scottie]

39. And that would be whom ?

I believe accusing those who disagree with you of "promoting (insert opposing political party's philosophy here)" is a cowardly tactic.

Too bad it is the only defense conspiroids have since they can't back up their mental masturbation with evidence.

It is also considered a personal attack.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FM Arouet666]

81. Quick, get a pen, I gotta write that one down.... n/t

[beam me up scottie]

83. You'll have plenty of time.

Apparently attacking skeptics is considered fair play.

[FM Arouet666]

80. Oh my, such ad hominem anger.

If your house of cards is falling down, do not start branding those critical of your pet theories as disrupters.

What evidence do you have for your theory? Bush is bad, Bush made a statement, therefore, Bush is taking advantage......

Please, can we be a bit more rational in our assessment of the situation.

[FM Arouet666]

67. Hold on there

The original conspiracy theory is that the Chimp administration has engineered the original 1918 influenza virus and simultaneously warned of an epidemic. The suggestion being we will be faced with a GOP lead pandemic in an attempt to declare martial law and remove the last vestiges of democracy.

A big leap if you ask me..

They are culpable, rather than defend all conspiracy theories, you should look far a more realistic theory.

Big pharma does not make money on vaccines, a big loser. You can never be sure how much will be needed, lots of R&D, not a big win. However, develop a vaccine for H5N1 and a pandemic starts, wow, your in the catbird seat, tons of profit. That is, if your the only one making the vaccine.

The conspiracy lies with the administration's failure to force these companies to develop the vaccine for the greater good of the population, regardless of lost profits.

The risk of pandemic is real, planning for quarantine is a joke. Those who think that bird flu is like your old childhood flu have no idea what could happen.

[Lori Price CLG]

70. As for me, I am not talking about 1918. The question is:

Is/will the Bush regime (somehow, someway) benefit from an avian flu pandemic? Prior to answering, recall the benefit(s) they reaped from the 9/11 terror attacks. Cui bono. Posse Comitatus is going 'bye-bye,' for starters... The Bush regime will gain more (absolute) power by the minute.

A recent Vietnamese bird flu victim did not respond to Tamiflu. Recall that Bush's pharma-terrorists were paid $6 billion under the cover of Project Bio-Shield. Bush's media whores seemed to have forgotten about that $6 billion that disappeared down the rabbit hole...

Lori Price

[FM Arouet666]

75. Your all other the place with this discussion.

Yes, there was a victim which did not respond to Tamiflu, are you suggesting that drug is some kind of placebo used to bilk the government out of 6 billion? Tamiflu is an effective anti viral agent, however, H5N1 virus has shown resistance. What, every time a biological organism shows resistance, the big pharma conspiracy kicks in?

Yes, chimp benefited from 9/11, so you are suggesting that they will infect the U.S. population with a synthesized 1918 influenza strain as a means to kill posse comitatus. To what end, kill off half the population with a virus to gain power? I know they are evil spawn but you have no evidence, and your suggestion is beyond comprehension, even for Machiavellian assholes like BushCo.

[FM Arouet666]

59. No, I wish I could agree with you

Look, there is a real health threat with bird flu. I agree this administration cannot be trusted on anything and pharmaceutical companies are in the pocket of the GOP.

However, this threat is real. The post you linked to is correct, flu caused by human-bird contact is very rare, just a handful of cases world wide. However, the influenza virus has a history of starting out in animal populations and mutating to a form which allows for human to human infection.

This virus is so virulent that about 50% of people who contract the illness die. And these are not kids and infirm adults. These are healthy 20 and 30 year olds.

The administration is playing a deadly game, big pharma should be forced to share the development of the vaccine and make the vaccine widely available. Instead, chimpy comes up with martial law.

It is a fucking shame, a possibly deadly shame, for all of us.....

[beam me up scottie]

65. The people who are insisting there's no threat should be ashamed.

I wonder if their conscience will bother them if and when people start to die from the flu that they said wouldn't harm them.

[FM Arouet666]

69. I am astonished at the level of disinterest in finding the truth.

I realize that, as part of the medical community, I should have some insight into the topic. Truth be known, I had no idea how serious bird flu was until I discussed it with a colleague a few days ago. Surgeons don't deal with flu that much. After reading a stack of information on past influenza pandemics and the information on H5N1 I am very concerned.

The administration is playing politics with the issue, however, the issue is a real threat. I just do not understand the mentality that everything Bush says is a lie and should be discounted. Everything must be analyzed, evidence evaluated, and a cogent opinion formulated.

Has rational thinking been lost???

Sorry, I am preaching to the choir, but I am getting a bit pissed off with this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

73. No more than I am.

They will be responsible for the deaths of others if they convince people that this is a political conspiracy and not an actual threat.

[FM Arouet666]

76. Next will be the war to prevent vaccination.

Big pharma is your enemy, don't get the vaccination. I pity those which think this flu is just your ordinary childhood illness.

[beam me up scottie]

78. I hope they don't

infect innocent people because of their ignorance.

I could care less about them.

[FM Arouet666]

54. I agree with you

Using the military to enforce quarantines is not what a "real" president should do faced with a bird flu pandemic. Number one would be development of a vaccine, force the companies which produce the vaccine to share the development with other companies to increase supply, and plan for universal vaccination.

Chimpo wont conflict with the pharmaceutical companies who will undoubtedly try to maximize profits for a vaccine to the detriment of the population.

As for quarantines, there will be a need, but it is like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

[Lori Price CLG]

56. Right. To me, the connection(s) are obvious. n/t

[Lori Price CLG]

10. Please see what I predicted on 05 July 2005 - to hit the day...

the indictments are sent regarding the Plame case. BTW, bird flu was NOT in the US mainstream media, when I made this prediction.

Informal CLG poll: What story will 'break' on the day the media is forced to reveal that Karl Rove 'outed' Valerie Plame? 05 Jul 2005

It's not a 'conspiracy theory.' It's merely accepting that these terrorists (the Bush regime) will do *anything* to maintain power. Once you accept that premise, all the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

Lori Price

[FM Arouet666]

77. Irrelevant

You predicted something, labeled as a conspiracy theorist, and now your correct. Yippie

So now I am to believe you for another conspiracy theory. Sorry, skeptical inquiry does not work that way. What is your evidence?

[PatriotMom]

89. Here is an article from the Washington Post Oct, 14th 2005

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301783.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

washingtonpost.com
A Flu Hope, Or Horror?

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, October 14, 2005; A19



While official Washington has been poring over Harriet Miers's long-ago doings on the Dallas City Council and parsing the byzantine comings and goings of the Patrick Fitzgerald grand jury, relatively unnoticed was perhaps the most momentous event of our lifetime -- what is left of it, as I shall explain. It was announced last week that U.S. scientists have just created a living, killing copy of the 1918 "Spanish" flu.

This is big. Very big.

First, it is a scientific achievement of staggering proportions. The Spanish flu has not been seen on this blue planet for 85 years. Its re-creation is a story of enterprise, ingenuity, serendipity, hard work and sheer brilliance. It involves finding deep in the bowels of a military hospital in Washington a couple of tissue samples from the lungs of soldiers who died in 1918 -- in an autopsy collection first ordered into existence by Abraham Lincoln -- and the disinterment of an Alaskan Eskimo who died of the flu and whose remains had been preserved by the permafrost. Then, using slicing and dicing techniques only Michael Crichton could imagine, they pulled off a microbiological Jurassic Park: the first-ever resurrection of an ancient pathogen. And not just any ancient pathogen, explained virologist Eddie Holmes, but "the agent of the most important disease pandemic in human history."

Which brings us to the second element of this story: Beyond the brilliance lies the sheer terror. We have brought back to life an agent of near-biblical destruction. It killed more people in six months than were killed in the four years of World War I. It killed more humans than any other disease of similar duration in the history of the world, says Alfred W. Crosby, who wrote a history of the 1918 pandemic. And, notes New Scientist magazine, when the re-created virus was given to mice in heavily quarantined laboratories in Atlanta, it killed the mice more quickly than any other flu virus ever tested .

Now that I have your attention, consider, with appropriate trepidation, the third element of this story: What to do with this knowledge? Not only has the virus been physically re-created, but its entire genome has also now been published for the whole world, good people and very bad, to see.

The decision to publish was a very close call, terrifyingly close.

On the one hand, we need the knowledge disseminated. We've learned from this research that the 1918 flu was bird flu, "the most bird-like of all mammalian flu viruses," says Jeffery Taubenberger, lead researcher in unraveling the genome. There is a bird flu epidemic right now in Asia that has infected 117 people and killed 60. It has already developed a few of the genomic changes that permit transmission to humans. Therefore, you want to put out the knowledge of the structure of the 1918 flu, which made the full jump from birds to humans, so that every researcher in the world can immediately start looking for ways to anticipate, monitor, prevent and counteract similar changes in today's bird flu.

We are essentially in a life-or-death race with the bird flu. Can we figure out how to preempt it before it figures out how to evolve into a transmittable form with 1918 lethality that will decimate humanity? To run that race we need the genetic sequence universally known -- not just to inform and guide but to galvanize new research.

On the other hand, resurrection of the virus and publication of its structure open the gates of hell. Anybody, bad guys included, can now create it. Biological knowledge is far easier to acquire for Osama bin Laden and friends than nuclear knowledge. And if you can't make this stuff yourself, you can simply order up DNA sequences from commercial laboratories around the world that will make it and ship it to you on demand. Taubenberger himself admits that "the technology is available."

And if the bad guys can't make the flu themselves, they could try to steal it. That's not easy. But the incentive to do so from a secure facility could not be greater. Nature, which published the full genome sequence, cites Rutgers bacteriologist Richard Ebright as warning that there is a significant risk "verging on inevitability" of accidental release into the human population or of theft by a "disgruntled, disturbed or extremist laboratory employee."

Why try to steal loose nukes in Russia? A nuke can only destroy a city. The flu virus, properly evolved, is potentially a destroyer of civilizations.

We might have just given it to our enemies.

Have a nice day.

[Lori Price CLG]

90. Right, even the PentaPost admits: "It was announced last week that...

U.S. scientists have just created a living, killing copy of the 1918 'Spanish' flu."

Ok, everyone all at once now... "Why???"

Lori Price

[PatriotMom]

91. If I told you, you would suggest a tinfoil hat for me...

But if you could think like a neocon, elitist, serial killer, what would you do if you had the power over the WORLD (and you think of yourselves as Gods)? This is how they think! Get your head out of the sand and GET REAL. I'm not directing this at the poster ok! This is just a thought, one I have thought about and looked into with a lot of research. These people are not playing.:tinfoilhat: :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

93. Do you think that they needed to

recreate the virus in order to create a pandemic?

The current strain has the potential to be just as deadly.

This is an event that could kill millions world wide.

Suggesting that this administration had anything to do with its development is a little naive.

I really dislike the way people are vilifying the scientists and doctors who are trying to prevent the pandemic.

[beam me up scottie]

92. Because they needed to find out if it was

comparable to the current strain.

[teryang]

4. The Avian Flu Fright is Politically Timed: Leonard Horowitz

Check out this article on www.globalresearch.ca

Interesting background on who was responsible for the anthrax attacks.

Incidentally, the same institute was responsible for sabotaging exit polling during the 2002 elections. Why was a biological warfare defense contractor programming media exit polls? Oops, sorry we made a mistake guys, no exit polls this time around.

[beam me up scottie]

5. You're citing LEONARD HOROWITZ ???

Good grief, we're all doomed.
:banghead:

[teryang]

7. I came to the same conclusions about anthrax myself before

...I even heard of Horowitz from my own research. Why don't you dispute what he says substantively?

[beam me up scottie]

12. Which theory?

The one that says viruses were developed in military laboratories and are spread via chem trails to infect the public?

Nah, I'm feeling lazy tonight so I'll just post this review of one of his books taken from his website instead:

Death in the Air: Globalism, Terrorism & Toxic Warfare
Order your copy today!

In the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on America, and the pending “Space Preservation Act of 2002” (H.R. 3616), this prophetically titled masterpiece is MUST AND URGENT READING! By giving you the full background and complete picture of who funds global terrorist organizations AND space based-weapons, and for what demonic purposes, Dr. Horowitz's latest book may help save the planet and millions of lives. Released in June 2001, this award-winning author's predictions have now come true. Coming soon is biowarfare, increasing global plagues, nuclear threats, more massive droughts and earthquakes, and population control technologies operated from space and effective beyond your wildest nightmares. Will you be prepared with the intelligence you and your loved ones need to survive? For beginners, this book is a crash course and reality check. For seasoned preparedness and conspiracy buffs, here is your next level, urgent lessons, and stunning documentation! Again, this intelligence may be crucial to you and your family's physical and spiritual survival.

I really don't need to dispute anything.
As a proponent, the burden of proof is on you.

Have at it.





edited: I'm html-challenged

[teryang]

13. Who do you work for

Hill and Knowlton?

[beam me up scottie]

15. Why? Because I don't have conspirigasms?

Sorry.

Critical thinker here.

Go peddle it somewhere else.

[kestrel91316]

26. What, you don't like magical thinking??

Wassa matta witcha??

:evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

33. I'm one of them-there "Science-worshipers"

don'tcha know?

:evilgrin:

[kestrel91316]

41. (me too - don't tell)

[beam me up scottie]

45. I have a lot of respect for you.

Speaking out against ignorance is never easy.

Some days it's like painting a bulls-eye on your ass.

Also, I am an animal person and love people that dedicate themselves to their well being.

Want some kittens?

[kestrel91316]

47. Why thank you . That's very kind of you to say so.

I am at cat maximum at this point. Got 2 at home, and 2 mascots at the clinic, one of which is a newbie with probable intestinal lymphoma, a chronic poor-doer but we love him anyway.

[teryang]

97. And I bet you believe Elvis is alive!

This is the old smear tactic of H.W. Reductio ad absurdum.

For all you pretenses, I notice you have unimaginatively taken up the handle of another DUer who is quite an analyst. Perhaps to create confusion. You are at bottom an obscurantist, perhaps a professional one.

I didn't see a word in the article I posted about chemtrails or HAARP. I didn't hear a responsive answer from you either. However, I noticed your admission of laziness. That fails to lend credence to your ranting and name calling. Claims to scientific certainty when evaluating social and political events are ridiculous.

Conspiracy theory is a perjorative epithet taking the negative connotations of conspiracy and applying them to the theorist. These talking points are common in the pharmaceutical and tobacco PR industries. These are the same people who came up with the jingos "fair and balanced" and "sound science." These are the same people who claimed that "sound science" didn't prove that cigarette smoking caused cancer and that diet drugs don't kill people. BMI, no surprise here, was a part of the cigarettes won't harm you propaganda.

It is fairly apparent from the circumstantial evidence which parties were behind the anthrax attacks on our constitutional institutions and no one will ever directly address that evidence because none dare call it treason when it is. I have some professional acquaintence with the pharmaceutical industry and it is absolutely without question that they like the bush family are willing to sacrifice the lives of thousands for profit and power. The anthrax attacks on the Constitution constituted treason and serve as a paradigm for the current situation. Few died, many were panicked into silence.

[Lori Price CLG]

60. Kicking your question. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

72. Who do I work for? Why, the Medical Mafia, of course.

:rofl:

[Lori Price CLG]

16. Did *I* mention Horowitz? No. One can show the Bush bio-terror...

tie-ins w.out pinning the theories on Leonard Horowitz - or any one particular person. Yet, that is the only premise of your argument.

BTW, five people were died when *someone* or *some agency* sent (military-grade, Fort Detrick-manufactured) anthrax via the US mail... to democrats about to vote on the (first) USA Patriot Act. Nothing like 100,000 spores of anthrax in your mailbox to bring out a favorable vote to the powers that be, eh?

Lori Price

[beam me up scottie]

21. Was *I* responding to you?

Personally, I believe kos did the right thing.

He probably saved lives by not allowing this kind of terrorism on his site.

[Lori Price CLG]

23. No, I knew you would avoid the issues I raised, of course. n/t

[kestrel91316]

24. What is with the "chemtrails", anyway???????

Contrails take many forms, depending on atmospheric conditions.

Besides, I thought chemtrails had to do with HAARP and aliens. Or maybe the lizard people or Anunaki?? I am so confused.

[beam me up scottie]

27. There's a billion dollar industry

that feeds off the fear of woo woos.

If I were unethical, I would hop on the gravy train too.

[Lori Price CLG]

28. Yeah, and guarantee Freepers will dispute HAARP as a

'conspiracy,' too, LOL!! The Freepers are so stupid that the *light* from stupid is going to take ten billion years to reach the earth.

Cheers,
Lori Price

http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html

[beam me up scottie]

32. Intelligent people don't fall for idiotic conspiracy theories.

Unlike freepers and conspiroids, they do their own research.

[Henny Penny]

95. Bird flu pandemic 'will hit UK'.....

A bird flu pandemic will hit Britain, killing about 50,000 - but not necessarily this year, says the chief medical officer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

It will happen... just not necessarily now... but it suits our purpose to whip the media into a frenzy about just now!

[Lori Price CLG]

96. In the meanwhile, the US gov't can 'prepare' people for the upcoming

...martial law, quarantines, and FEMA camps.

Lori Price

[johnaries]

14. I'm more afraid

of B* using the flu as an excuse to declare martial law, repeal posse comitatus, and "quarantine" suspected affected areas than I am of the flu itself.
:scared:

[Lori Price CLG]

22. Exactamundo!! n/t

[kestrel91316]

29. I think the threats are comparable.

[beam me up scottie]

40. I agree.

But the prospect of them using it and the belief that they caused are worlds apart.

[kestrel91316]

42. I think they are opportunists of the worst sort WRT avian flu.

[beam me up scottie]

74. Just like the conspiroids.

They use terrorism to further their agenda.

[CrispyQ]

17. Get your emergency kits together,

cuz if it isn't the bird flu, it will be something else. I honestly believe that part of their plan is to reduce population drastically. They can't risk that the majority of the population is cold, hungry & willing to storm & torch their gated communities.

"Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse."
--Lilly Tomlin

[beam me up scottie]

30. THEY'RE GOING TO KILL ALL OF US !!!

Is that the reaction you're looking for?

[CrispyQ]

36. No. That's over reaction & that's what THEY are looking for.

I'm just saying, bird flu, weather disasters due to ignoring global warming, a crippled trucking industry due to high gas prices, whatever, be prepared for the worst.

These people have no scruples, no conscience, no humanity.

[beam me up scottie]

38. I realize that.

But the fact that politicians are unethical is not enough for me to jump to the conclusion that they are killing us by purposely infecting us with manufactured viruses.

Personally, I question the scruples of people who tell others to ignore the advice of their doctor.

[CrispyQ]

43. I would question those people too.

However, I did not say that. I also did not say they are killing the masses with viruses. I do believe they will kill many through their arrogance & the dismantling of programs that are in place to help those who need them most. That is all I meant. Not some tin foil hat conspiracy.

My message was simply prepare for the worst. Get some supplies together, be as flexible as you can & be prepared for the worst. Is this bad advice in these times? In any times?

[beam me up scottie]

50. No, sorry, didn't mean you.

I was referring to the people who tell everyone that the flu is not a threat and that it's all a political ploy.

And I am sure that this administration is responsible for the death of thousands of people because of incompetence and lack of empathy.

My point is that the conspiroids hurt our efforts to stop them and are just as dangerous in their own way when they proselytise.

[CrispyQ]

61. Agreed.

I can see where my original post sounded a bit conspiratorial without further clarification.

Ya know, this administration puts me in a mental quandary sometimes. Whereas I don't put anything past them, I also believe they are so arrogant & incompetent that anything of scale will not go off the way they hoped. (Sure can't use the word 'planned' can I?)

Have a good night BMUS.

[beam me up scottie]

66. Hey thanks,

you too.

Let's all work towards the day that their incompetence does them in.

I hope it's soon.

[NEOBuckeye]

46. Oh, stop the fearmongering already!

They're not going to kill us all. And even if they should try, you guys forget that there are still many, many more of us than them.

All I can say is thank the Founders for the Second Amendment. When the American people stop and actually consider things like this, the BFEE will suddenly and very violently find itself among the Russian Czar's family, the French Nobility and all of the other enemies of the people throughout history who got too big for their britches.

[beam me up scottie]

62. ROFLMFAO !!! Fear mongering?

By pointing out the absurdity of their claims?

I am sure the irony escapes you.

[kestrel91316]

55. I have to confess I have been having "They're going to kill us all"

moments almost daily for the past 4 1/2 years, LOL. But that's just me. I spend too much time thinking about unpleasant possibilities.

[beam me up scottie]

68. Hey, they've already

killed thousands, but through incompetence, not by spraying viruses on them or engineering hurricanes and earthquakes.

[Lori Price CLG]

64. Other flu 'Oddities...'

http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html

Military intelligence warns that avian flu could be used as weapon: report 08 Mar 2005 The military's intelligence arm has warned the federal government that avian influenza could be used as a weapon of bioterrorism, a heavily censored report suggests. It also reveals that military planners believe a naturally occurring flu pandemic may be imminent. The report, entitled Recent Human Outbreaks of Avian Influenza and Potential Biological Warfare Implications, was obtained under the Access to Information Act by The Canadian Press. It was prepared by the J2 Directorate of Strategic Intelligence, a secretive branch of National Defence charged with producing intelligence for the government.

Coroner Wants to Shrink-Wrap Bodies --Coroner Wants to Shrink-Wrap Bodies in the Case of a Natural Disaster or Terrorist Attack 19 Feb 2005 In the case of a natural disaster or terrorist attack, some emergency officials in Western Washington plan to be prepared with a large, shrink wrap machine. The Thurston County Coroner's Office recently won approval to purchase a machine able to shrink-wrap human remains. The process would make it easier to transport a large number of bodies. The coroner's office has already started a bidding process to find a company to build the machine. A Homeland Security grant will pay for the machine, which will cost an estimated $50,000.

Killer flu recreated in the lab 07 Oct 2004, 05:02 GMT 06:02 UK Scientists have shown that tiny changes to modern flu viruses could render them as deadly as the 1918 strain which killed millions. A US team added two genes from a sample of the 1918 virus to a modern strain known to have no effect on mice. Animals exposed to this composite were dying within days of symptoms similar to those found in human victims of the 1918 pandemic.

1918 killer flu secrets revealed 05 Feb 2004, 19:00 GMT Scientists have worked out how the virus which caused the world's worst flu epidemic infected man. They believe the virus, which claimed the lives of up to 50m people around the world, jumped from birds to humans. The breakthrough, published in Science, should help doctors identify which future bird viruses pose a threat to man at an earlier stage.

Lori Price

[FM Arouet666]

71. Let me ask you this

Do you fear that the government has recreated the 1918 strain with the intent of infecting the U.S. population? If so why?

[Lori Price CLG]

79. I don't know if they did that, and if so, why. But, I see a scenario...

with top Bush regime officials getting indicted, the GOP losing most elections in 2006 and 2008, etc. -even w. electronic 'voting' -due to the Plame affair, Iraq, DeLay's scandals, and twenty other factors. I know that that thought is unacceptable to the Bush regime and the Neo-cons.

If an extreme crisis hits the US (they can't pull off another 9/11 -there are too many questions on Bush Administration involvement in the attacks that are all over the Internet) Bush and the GOP would stay in power. The 'average person' would not want a change in 'leadership' during such a crisis and lo and behold, Republican candidates would win (and not even need Diebold).

I just find the whole scenario *way too convenient.*

There are a tremendous number of flu 'Oddities' that support the possibility of 'getting the (bio-terror) party started,' please see this page for a compilation: Flu 'Oddities.' http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html

It is simply best to label them 'oddities.'

Good question, Arouet666. Thanks for phrasing it as you did.

Lori Price

[beam me up scottie]

82. You have NO proof and yet you accused me of being

a "good little Reichwinger" and wanted to know "who" I'm "working for" because I disagreed with you?

I should be shocked.

But it's become SOP for members of the cult.

[FM Arouet666]

84. Now you are sounding more sane.

;)

I agree, if you look at the whole pattern behind the Bush administration, the "neoconservative agenda for a new century", they have to stay in power to achieve their goals. Was 9-11 a godsend for the GOP, damn right it was, did they have knowledge of the event before it happened. Hard to envision such a vast conspiracy among ordinary Americans which resulted in the killing of 3K+ people and still remains silent.

Is there a government conspiracy here? Actively infect the population? A stretch, even for evil BushCo. Are they going to pussy foot around letting big Pharma run the shots with profits being more important than lives. I think yes, until the horror of the pandemic has hit, then they will react.

The pandemic is a real threat, the bull shit response from the administration is the crime, we are the victims.

[FM Arouet666]

85. My final word on conspiracy theories.

That is the problem, when a conspiracy is real, it is almost never suspected, and, when it is suspected, it is almost never real.

It is amazing to see how many people are driven by an "almost."

[Lori Price CLG]

87. Just curious: If I could present to you say... fifty odd...

circumstances surrounding a major political or bio-political event... each with the outcome happening to benefit one team or side... what would you call that?

I mean, cases with *far less* coincidences are wrapped up on Law & Order within an hour! Yeah, it's fiction, LOL, but in 'real life,' detectives investigate a target based on a significantly less number of 'coincidences.'

Lori Price

[FM Arouet666]

88. You have reason to be concerned.

Realize that everyone one on this board distrusts the administration. Yes, I can name a large number of recent political events which have questionable outcomes. However, not all conspiracy theories have equal merit. If you post something inflammatory, as you did, you can expect skeptics, like myself and BMUS to take you to task. Does that mean that the administration is innocent. Absolutely not, as I mentioned in prior posts.

What I want to avoid is trivializing the bird flu pandemic for the cause of GOP bashing. The administration is politicizing a possible natural disaster, after failing to protect us from a major hurricane. Yes, there is cause to be concerned, but don't post things which have zero proof. You could have posted the same topic with less inflammatory accusations and gained a much greater impact.

Just a thought, top of the morning to ya...... Time for bed.....

On edit. Fuck I cannot spell my way out of a box, even with the checker.

[greyl]

94. Right on. Way to tie this thread up.

"What I want to avoid is trivializing the bird flu pandemic for the cause of GOP bashing. The administration is politicizing a possible natural disaster, after failing to protect us from a major hurricane. Yes, there is cause to be concerned, but don't post things which have zero proof."